Precision Landings and practice

[[email protected]]

As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
committed on final. There you have the elements of
short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
make them fun.
All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
How about your landings?
Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid

[Morgans]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
> consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
> within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
> you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?

And in addition to this type of landing without power, how about when you
have power, but have to make a rapid reaction to change you spot at the last
moment. What comes to mind, is at OSH on 9/27, when at the last moment the
controller (or other circumstances) calls for a change to touch down one dot
early or one dot later that what he said at first, and now you are feet from
the ground, trying to make it work.

As a spectator at OSH, it seems like some people are totally unprepared for
precision spot landings, and some practice would be in order. Good idea for
a thread.
--
Jim in NC

[William W. Plummer]

wrote:
> As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
> consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
> within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
> you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
> OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
> down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
> cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
> have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
> a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
> all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
> committed on final. There you have the elements of
> short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
> Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
> events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
> can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
> of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
> make them fun.
> All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
> so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
> motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
> How about your landings?
> Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
> Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid
>
This thread might expand to include "Glassy Water" landings in seaplanes
because it is a very precise approach and landing without looking down.
Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
two lines 100' appart. (200' for non-commercial). Think about that --
you can land across the runway at a normal airport and without power!

[Peter Duniho]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in
message news:57Mud.555936$D%.476618@attbi_s51...
> This thread might expand to include "Glassy Water" landings in seaplanes
> because it is a very precise approach and landing without looking down.

Not exactly. It's "precise" in the sense that it's important to maintain
just the right airspeed and power setting, achieving the proper vertical
descent rate (100fpm or so, max 200fpm), so that you touch down on the water
gently and with the correct pitch attitude.

But it's nothing like a spot landing. A glassy water landing pretty much
guarantees that you will NOT land at a precise point on the water. That's
kind of the point...you can't really tell where you'll touch down, so you
make sure you're ready to touch down at any moment.

There are, of course, additional "precision" elements such as making a
normal approach as low over visible terrain as possible, to minimize the
time spent in the "instrument" phase of the glassy water landing. But even
so, there's absolutely no element to glassy water landings that have
anything to do with placing the airplane on the landing surface at a
particular spot.

Glassy water landings are "precision" the way flight maneuvers like turns
about a point, chandelles, etc. are "precision". If that's what you meant,
I can wholeheartedly agree with that.

> Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
> two lines 100' appart. (200' for non-commercial). Think about that --
> you can land across the runway at a normal airport and without power!

You mean "can touch down across the runway", right? Even in a sailplane,
one might have trouble actually coming to a stop before reaching the other
side of the runway (without a decent headwind, anyway).

Pete

[Jack Allison]

Morgans wrote:

> As a spectator at OSH, it seems like some people are totally unprepared for
> precision spot landings, and some practice would be in order. Good idea for
> a thread.

I'd agree Jim, from what I've seen at my very limited time attending at
Oshkosh, I've seen some rather interesting flying. Rick Durden has some
great advice in some past Avweb articles. I was fortunate enough to
find them before flying in my first time two years ago. The articles
really got me thinking about the importance of being able to maintain
altitude, airspeed, and pull off good spot landings. It's really not
that hard but it is good to fully understand that anyone flying in needs
to be on their game.

When my brother and I arrived two years ago, I was greeted by the tower
controller with "White Cessna, good job, welcome to Oshkosh". Despite
being early that Monday morning and having the luxury of fairly loose
spacing in the arrival, it was the most intense and rewarding approach
and landing I've ever flown. I'd do it again in a heartbeat....but I'd
be sure to have recently practiced the basic skills necessary.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[tony roberts]

Speaking for myself I do that every single landing.
At my home airport I land on the 1000 ft markers - usually a different
type of landing every time - power on/power off/flaps/no flaps - but
ALWAYS exactly on the 1000 ft markers. At other airports, if there is
room I land on the 1000 ft markers, if there isn't I land on the numbers
- but I always vary it and I always - every single time - land on the
numbers or the 1000 ft markers.
To me, that's just practicing for the day I have an emergency and have
to put the plane down with precision.

Tony
C-GICE




In article m>,
wrote:

> As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
> consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
> within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
> you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
> OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
> down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
> cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
> have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
> a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
> all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
> committed on final. There you have the elements of
> short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
> Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
> events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
> can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
> of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
> make them fun.
> All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
> so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
> motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
> How about your landings?
> Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
> Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Stefan]

William W. Plummer wrote:

> Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
> two lines 100' appart.

Which is not that impressing when you consider that with those huge
airbrakes, you can adjust your glidepath to anything between 50:1 to 5:1.

This said, in our club we have the rule that "every landing is a spot
landing".

Stefan

[Jay Honeck]

> When my brother and I arrived two years ago, I was greeted by the tower
> controller with "White Cessna, good job, welcome to Oshkosh". Despite
> being early that Monday morning and having the luxury of fairly loose
> spacing in the arrival, it was the most intense and rewarding approach and
> landing I've ever flown. I'd do it again in a heartbeat....but I'd be
> sure to have recently practiced the basic skills necessary.

Just think, Jack: only 7.5 months until we get to do it all over again!

God willin' and the crick don't rise, of course...

;-)

Man, I can hardly wait!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

Sooooo... is there going to be a "Spot Landing" contest as part of this
year's Alexis Park Inn Aerial Open Pre-Airventure Party?

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Just think, Jack: only 7.5 months until we get to do it all over again!
> God willin' and the crick don't rise, of course... ;-)
> Man, I can hardly wait!

[Dan Truesdell]

Jack Allison wrote:
>
>
> Morgans wrote:
>
>> As a spectator at OSH, it seems like some people are totally
>> unprepared for
>> precision spot landings, and some practice would be in order. Good
>> idea for
>> a thread.
>
>
> I'd agree Jim, from what I've seen at my very limited time attending at
> Oshkosh, I've seen some rather interesting flying. Rick Durden has some
> great advice in some past Avweb articles. I was fortunate enough to
> find them before flying in my first time two years ago. The articles
> really got me thinking about the importance of being able to maintain
> altitude, airspeed, and pull off good spot landings. It's really not
> that hard but it is good to fully understand that anyone flying in needs
> to be on their game.
>
> When my brother and I arrived two years ago, I was greeted by the tower
> controller with "White Cessna, good job, welcome to Oshkosh". Despite
> being early that Monday morning and having the luxury of fairly loose
> spacing in the arrival, it was the most intense and rewarding approach
> and landing I've ever flown. I'd do it again in a heartbeat....but I'd
> be sure to have recently practiced the basic skills necessary.
>

OSH is a good example of approach criteria that may apply in a number of
situations. In addition to the ability of doing a spot landing, you
also need to be ready to handle a change. I was on short final for 9
last year (2003, Monday evening), and was given instructions to land on
the numbers. (There was someone on logout.) However, the Bonanza
behind me was getting too close for the controller's comfort, and, at
about 400 feet, he asked me to hit the white dot. No problem (40
degrees of flaps on a 172 makes challenges like these a bit less
daunting). Got a "nice job" from the tower. Great people work there.
That was good practice for the turkeys that occasionally "appear" on the
end of the runways at LEB. (I don't mean stupid pilots, I mean the real
feathered kind.)

--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

[Jack Allison]

john smith wrote:
> Sooooo... is there going to be a "Spot Landing" contest as part of this
> year's Alexis Park Inn Aerial Open Pre-Airventure Party?

Fantastic idea John. I can hardly imagine the prizes this group would
come up with for best/worst spot landing performance.

Jay - Let's see...7.5 months...a prospective partner and I have a rough
3-6 month time frame we're looking to buy (fully realizing it can take
waaaaaaaay longer than that)...yep, it just might work. I could be
flying to OSH in *my* airplane this year.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay - Let's see...7.5 months...a prospective partner and I have a rough
> 3-6 month time frame we're looking to buy (fully realizing it can take
> waaaaaaaay longer than that)...yep, it just might work. I could be flying
> to OSH in *my* airplane this year.

Awesome!

You still looking at Cardinals?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Maule Driver]

"Stefan" > >
> > Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane between
> > two lines 100' appart.
>
> Which is not that impressing when you consider that with those huge
> airbrakes, you can adjust your glidepath to anything between 50:1 to 5:1.
>
Airbrakes are far superior to flaps for glidepath control but I'm sure you
are exaggerating to make the point. Few gliders can achieve 50:1 and I'm
not sure about 5:1 either. But they are effective even if not huge.

But not always. I had the pleasure to do my initial training in a Schwiezer
2-22 where the difference in glide ratio with zero spoilers and full
spoilers was barely distinguishable (slight exaggeration). Side slips with
full spoilers were standard procedure. A nice training experience.

My first owned sailplane was the Finnish PIK20-b. A 70's vintage glass ship
with no spoilers. It had flaps that were infinitely adjustable between -8
and +90 degrees. Flaps can out perform spoilers in the sense that steep
descents can be achieved at slower speed. Problems include the need for
tight airspeed control to avoid balloning and float along with the fact that
flaps are effectively 'one way' devices, especially on gliders. Once you
roll in landing flaps and slow down, you really can't increase your glide
ratio by rolling them off. If you do retract the flaps to increase your
glide ratio, you generally have to increase your speed and/or let your
descent rate go up to regain some energy before the desired effect can be
achieved. With an engine, you can counteract that but in a glider all you
have is height and speed.

The PIK could be set down on a dime once the technique was learned. The
trick was to fly final with 90degs of flap and flare a foot or so off the
ground. Unless you entered the flare with a ridiculously low airspeed,
ground effect was sure to float you past any planned landing point. But
when you the desired point was reached, you simply dumped the flaps and
flared for a 2 pointer. However, the flaps were actuated with a crank that
required 2-3 full turns to dump. Imagine rubbing your tummy and patting
your head at the same time. It took a full season before I could detach the
cranking with my left hand from the smooth pulling with my right. Imagine a
bouncing ball..... But once mastered, you could land with a yard of any
intended point.

[Maule Driver]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
> consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
> within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
> you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?

Yes, but I practice it.

And while I used to take it for granted, I no longer do. I've done a lot of
off field work in gliders where landing precision is a given. The Maule is
known to be good short field machine but it's not as easy to spot land or
short field land as I would have thought. But when I took my commercial
training, I had convinced my instructors that the power off landings to a
spot landing would not be an issue due to my experience. I failed my check
ride for missing the spot. On the following day, I failed it a second time
for missing the same spot! Flying the Mooney power-off to spot was
different than doing it in a glider or a Maule.

So I no longer believe that I could perform accurate spot landings in
something other than my regular plane without practice.

[Stefan]

Maule Driver wrote:

> Airbrakes are far superior to flaps for glidepath control but I'm sure you
> are exaggerating to make the point. Few gliders can achieve 50:1 and I'm
> not sure about 5:1 either.

Ok, I admit. So I'll reduce it to between 48:1 and 7:1. (48:1 being the
best glide for an LS8 with 18m, and JAR-22 requires a glide ratio of
less than 7:1 with airbrakes deployed.) Maybe I should even reduce the
upper limit to 45:1 for the bugs. :-)

> I had the pleasure to do my initial training in a Schwiezer
> 2-22 where the difference in glide ratio with zero spoilers and full
> spoilers was barely distinguishable (slight exaggeration).

The airbrakes of the Rhönlerche (aka Rhönstone) were called "noise
makers" because the only difference they made was the noise level. :-)
Slips were *very* effetive, however.

> The PIK could be set down on a dime once the technique was learned.

Every airplane can be set down on a dime once the technique has been
learned (and is regularly practised!). Of course it may be more
difficult for some planes than for others.

> But
> when you the desired point was reached, you simply dumped the flaps and
> flared for a 2 pointer.

Just smashing down the glider doesn't count. At least it doesn't at the
spot landing contests of our club. On the other hand, when outlanding,
the only thing which counts is the result and nobody will care about
style, of course.

Stefan

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Awesome!
>
> You still looking at Cardinals?

Yep...at the moment, a Cardinal RG is at the top of the list and is the
main focus of our research efforts. Still lots of work to do and many
variables to consider along the way.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Morgans]

"john smith" > wrote

> Sooooo... is there going to be a "Spot Landing" contest as part of this
> year's Alexis Park Inn Aerial Open Pre-Airventure Party?

ONLY if it can be judged from pool side. Jay DOES have his priorities set,
right Jay? <g>
--
Jim in NC

[john smith]

If it has 5x5.00 tires, make yourself a set of 12"x12"x1" plywood
platforms to park the wheels on any soft surface. The smaller tires
readily sink into soft turf, making it difficult to extract the aircraft
to depart. Saves the engine/landing gear and your body from excessive abuse.

Jack Allison wrote:
> Yep...at the moment, a Cardinal RG is at the top of the list and is the
> main focus of our research efforts. Still lots of work to do and many
> variables to consider along the way.

[Maule Driver]

"Stefan" >
> > The PIK could be set down on a dime once the technique was learned.
>
> Every airplane can be set down on a dime once the technique has been
> learned (and is regularly practised!). Of course it may be more
> difficult for some planes than for others.

I'd have to agree but perhaps not all. A long wing ship I've heard about
that really doesn't spot land is the U2 (it was just hangar talk - can
anyone comment?)
>
> > when you the desired point was reached, you simply dumped the flaps and
> > flared for a 2 pointer.
>
> Just smashing down the glider doesn't count. At least it doesn't at the
> spot landing contests of our club. On the other hand, when outlanding,
> the only thing which counts is the result and nobody will care about
> style, of course.

This wasn't a smash down. Rather it resulted in a particularly smooth,
precise, and satisfying landing (once one learned to eliminate the PIOsfrom
cranking with one hand while controlling pitch with the other). Problem was
that the technique was not documented as far as I know. Just the technique
taught by one experienced PIK owner to another.

Otherwise I would submit that gliders that depend on flaps only for glide
path control *cannot* be consistently and safely landed 'on a dime' in the
normal range of conditions without the kind of non-standard technique
described above. The PIK couldn't and the Schweizer 1-35 couldn't in my
experience. And I think that fact that no one builds production gliders
with this configuration is a reflection of this. But my experience is
limited here.

[Maule Driver]

Do you ever feel that there may be some value is practicing with hitting
other spots - say a midfield turnoff on a particularly long runway? Just to
practice with a different visual picture.

I've only flown into one of the big airshows once - Fun and Sun. My
initiation was the request to land as long as possible and take the last
turn-off. The optimal landing involved landing on the say the last 1,000 of
the runway. Adding some distance for safety, Mom and the insurance company
is prudent but it is definitely a different landing problem and challenging
when it's thrown at you 200' high on final.

So what do you thing about changing the spot in addition to changing the
approach and a/c config?

"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-28CCB2.22101411122004@shawnews...
> Speaking for myself I do that every single landing.
> At my home airport I land on the 1000 ft markers - usually a different
> type of landing every time - power on/power off/flaps/no flaps - but
> ALWAYS exactly on the 1000 ft markers. At other airports, if there is
> room I land on the 1000 ft markers, if there isn't I land on the numbers
> - but I always vary it and I always - every single time - land on the
> numbers or the 1000 ft markers.
> To me, that's just practicing for the day I have an emergency and have
> to put the plane down with precision.
>
> Tony
> C-GICE
>
>
>
>
> In article m>,
> wrote:
>
> > As a segue from off airport landings....how about precision? Can you
> > consistently touch down at minimum speed with your regular aircraft
> > within a 50' mark? Can you do it with a short/soft/XW/ Obstacle? Can
> > you do it with any configuration of flaps and or power?
> > OK....got an electrical failure that prevents any flaps from coming
> > down and you are faced with a no flap landing. Should be a piece of
> > cake but when is the last time you did it with precision? Suppose you
> > have an engine failure and are headed down into a wooded area with only
> > a small meadow for any decent landing? The surface is unknown, trees
> > all the way around, and you're not sure of the exact wind until you are
> > committed on final. There you have the elements of
> > short/soft/XW/Obstacle all wrapped up in one and easy to visualize.
> > Many different scenarios that can be described that are day to day
> > events at the airport but so few ever challenge their abilities. I
> > can't remember the last time I saw a spot landing contest or even heard
> > of one being proposed. Great way to focus on precision landings and
> > make them fun.
> > All of my students have been challenged to beat me at spot landings but
> > so far none have managed...close but no cigar. That only serves to
> > motivate them to do better and in turn makes them better pilots.
> > How about your landings?
> > Fly safe and Merry Christmas to you all
> > Rocky aka Ol Shy & Bashful Selway Kid
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Tony Roberts
> PP-ASEL
> VFR OTT
> Night
> Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Jack Allison]

Thanks for the tip John! I'll tuck that little tidbit away.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[[email protected]]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "William W. Plummer" > wrote in

> message news:57Mud.555936$D%.476618@attbi_s51...
> > This thread might expand to include "Glassy Water" landings in
seaplanes
> > because it is a very precise approach and landing without looking
down.
>
> Not exactly. It's "precise" in the sense that it's important to
maintain
> just the right airspeed and power setting, achieving the proper
vertical
> descent rate (100fpm or so, max 200fpm), so that you touch down on
the water
> gently and with the correct pitch attitude.
>
> But it's nothing like a spot landing. A glassy water landing pretty
much
> guarantees that you will NOT land at a precise point on the water.
That's
> kind of the point...you can't really tell where you'll touch down, so
you
> make sure you're ready to touch down at any moment.
>
> There are, of course, additional "precision" elements such as making
a
> normal approach as low over visible terrain as possible, to minimize
the
> time spent in the "instrument" phase of the glassy water landing.
But even
> so, there's absolutely no element to glassy water landings that have
> anything to do with placing the airplane on the landing surface at a
> particular spot.
***********************************
Pete
While I have to qualify my position as not having flown on floats for
many years, when I was on the water a lot in northern Minnesota, and in
Louisiana, I frequently found myself landing in places that required a
precision landing regardless of glassy conditions or not. I learned
early on that most of my water landings would be fairly close to shore
with some kind of visual clues. That, opposed to landing out on big
open water like in the middle of a lake? For practical reasons, I can't
imagine landing out in the middle of a lake rather than closer to the
beach/shore? Most of my landing areas were tight and required not only
a precise touchdown spot, but then required turns on the water to stay
out of the rocks or trees. Our home base was often referred to as the
"mudhole" and I flew a variety of floatplanes out of it...including a
Beaver.
For sure it takes some special technique to operate on glassy water and
still be precise but mostly its a matter of either learning the hard
way, or by having someone pass along that information that already did
the mistakes and survived them!
As for landing crossways on runways, I'd have to be careful with some
of the ones I use since they are barely wider than the landing gear
track! At present, I fly mostly off a former USAF base with 150' wide
runways, and given proper wind conditions can make a nice landing and
stop within that distance with no undue wear and tear on C150/172 or
similar.
My students are at a disadvantage flying off such big runways because
when they are faced with a 2000' grass strip, they are petrified. That
is one of the main reasons I take them into 2000' grass and teach them
how to fly the way it used to be.
Even when faced with 9500'X 150' hard surface and taxiways wide enough
to land on crosswise, I insist that they pick a spot for touchdown and
ignore the rest of that concrete. Having operated off of 1200' in more
places than I can recall only serves to reinforce my teaching
techniques and demands for precision on take offs and landings. If you
think thats tough. you should hear me with students in helicopters!!!!
Merry Christmas to you all
Ol Shy & Bashful
>
> Glassy water landings are "precision" the way flight maneuvers like
turns
> about a point, chandelles, etc. are "precision". If that's what you
meant,
> I can wholeheartedly agree with that.
>
> > Also, commercial glider pilots must be able to drop the plane
between
> > two lines 100' appart. (200' for non-commercial). Think about
that --
> > you can land across the runway at a normal airport and without
power!
>
> You mean "can touch down across the runway", right? Even in a
sailplane,
> one might have trouble actually coming to a stop before reaching the
other
> side of the runway (without a decent headwind, anyway).
>
> Pete

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> [...]
> While I have to qualify my position as not having flown on floats for
> many years, when I was on the water a lot in northern Minnesota, and in
> Louisiana, I frequently found myself landing in places that required a
> precision landing regardless of glassy conditions or not. I learned
> early on that most of my water landings would be fairly close to shore
> with some kind of visual clues.

When one refers to "glassy water technique", the assumption is that there
are no visual cues.

It's true that even in glassy water conditions, one can often find suitable
visual cues (shoreline near the landing site, for example). But in that
case, you don't use "glassy water technique" (even though you could
legitimately call the exercise a "technique").

I'll admit that the poster to which I replied didn't really make clear what
kind of landing he was actually talking about. But the wording certainly
implied to me that he's talking about the "instrument" version of landing on
glassy water, rather than the "visual cues" version (since the visual cues
version is basically a normal landing, hardly even unique to seaplane
flying, never mind specific to glassy water conditions).

Pete

[Jay Honeck]

> ONLY if it can be judged from pool side. Jay DOES have his priorities
> set,
> right Jay? <g>

Welllllll, we can judge the approach from poolside -- but we're gonna need
to take a fence or two down to see the actual landing...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Welllllll, we can judge the approach from poolside -- but we're gonna need
> to take a fence or two down to see the actual landing...

And the problem with that is??? :-) Call Montblack, he'll gladly help
you tear down those pesky landing-view-limiting fences.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> And the problem with that is??? :-) Call Montblack, he'll gladly help
> you tear down those pesky landing-view-limiting fences.

A cool development: As part of our airport's absurd "obstruction project"
(they're putting red marker lights on anything that doesn't move, I swear)
they just took down a stand of trees that stood between us and the runways.

Most people would be ****ed -- Mary and I were ecstatic!

(I know, we're sick, sick people... ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Welllllll, we can judge the approach from poolside -- but we're gonna need
> to take a fence or two down to see the actual landing...

Sounds like an ideal place to put a large removable section.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Steven Barnes]

Get a little remote cam, point it at the approach end of the runway & pipe
the feed to your Inn. Built in entertainment.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:__1wd.504618$wV.22444@attbi_s54...
> > ONLY if it can be judged from pool side. Jay DOES have his priorities
> > set,
> > right Jay? <g>
>
> Welllllll, we can judge the approach from poolside -- but we're gonna need
> to take a fence or two down to see the actual landing...
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> > Welllllll, we can judge the approach from poolside -- but we're gonna
need
> > to take a fence or two down to see the actual landing...
>
> Sounds like an ideal place to put a large removable section.
>
How about a section that operates like a remote control gate?
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:__1wd.504618$wV.22444@attbi_s54...
> > ONLY if it can be judged from pool side. Jay DOES have his priorities
> > set,
> > right Jay? <g>
>
> Welllllll, we can judge the approach from poolside -- but we're gonna need
> to take a fence or two down to see the actual landing...
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck


Closed circuit TV, and a Big Screen by the pool, to view the touchdown? <g>
--
Jim in NC

[john smith]

Ask the airport manager if you can paint a big wide stripe across the
runway and set up the cam to sight down the stripe.
Any judging/scoring challenges can be resolved by video replays for a
contribution to the "refreshment" fund.

Morgans wrote:
> Closed circuit TV, and a Big Screen by the pool, to view the touchdown? <g>

[Roger]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 04:49:03 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>Ask the airport manager if you can paint a big wide stripe across the
>runway and set up the cam to sight down the stripe.
>Any judging/scoring challenges can be resolved by video replays for a
>contribution to the "refreshment" fund.
>

I've always seen it as dust tape or reflective tape that can be
removed after the spot landing contest.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>Morgans wrote:
>> Closed circuit TV, and a Big Screen by the pool, to view the touchdown? <g>

[[email protected]]

As long as you guys are gonna have so much fun...what about a flour
bombing contest?
Put a one pound bag of flour in either paper or plastic and the
"bomber" drops it out a window or the door while the "Captain" does the
flying and safety stuff.
Yeh it makes a mess for a while but no one seems to care a whole lot
and its all biodegradeable if you use paper bags. One helllllluva lot
of fun as well as instructive.
You can limit the number of tries to make it competitive.
When we finished the crop dusting season we'd do a flag drop contest
and try to drop a flag into a bucket sitting on the runway. Amazing how
tight the contest got and how nit picky we got about accuracy. Then
we'd go drink beer and eat delicious BBQ, tell war stories and make
some up as we went along. Kind of keeps the fun in flying.
Rocky

[[email protected]]

Hey
I was ferrying a helicopter one time and saw a spot landing contest
going on. They didn't allow me to participate after I got into a hover
and worked around to land exactly on the spot. No one ever explained
the rules before hand and I'm still miffed that I didn't get the trophy
of the tire mark. Geeezzz, maybe they'll make a new one with skid
marks?
Oh well, I can understand the weird thoughts of the phyxed wing pilots
having been one in a different life...<ggg>

[[email protected]]

Hey
I was ferrying a helicopter one time and saw a spot landing contest
going on. They didn't allow me to participate after I got into a hover
and worked around to land exactly on the spot. No one ever explained
the rules before hand and I'm still miffed that I didn't get the trophy
of the tire mark. Geeezzz, maybe they'll make a new one with skid
marks?
Oh well, I can understand the weird thoughts of the phyxed wing pilots
having been one in a different life...<ggg>