FCC talking about relaxing cell phone rules

[Reid & Julie Baldwin]

The news lately has mentioned that the FCC is meeting to discuss relaxing
the ban on using cell phones in airplanes. Most of the news coverage focuses
on the implications for airline passengers. They said that the FAA would
also
have to change rules before airline passengers could use cell phones.
The FCC is mainly concerned with interference with ground based use.
The FAA is mostly concerned about interference with aircraft electronics.
Does the FAA prohibit cell phone use in private aircraft, or is that just an
FCC rule? If it becomes legal to use a cell phone from the air, I may have
to look into one of those headset adapters for cell phones.

[Jose]

> Does the FAA prohibit cell phone use in private aircraft, or is that just an
> FCC rule?

It's an FCC rule, designed to avoid overloading the old style analog
cell sites. The rule is thought not to apply to the newer digital
cell service (but I don't think it's been tested in court).

The FAA rule for part 135 ops (135.144) essentially lets the operator
of the aircraft determine what they will allow and disallow. They
make a determination that a device will or will not interfere (but
then if they determine wrong, and an accident occurs, the "careless
and reckless" clause will certainly be trotted out). I don't think
there is an equivalent rule for part 91 ops; the pilot is responsible
for the safety of the flight, which by default includes portable
electronic devices.

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Bob Moore]

Jose > wrote

> I don't think there is an equivalent rule for part 91 ops;
> the pilot is responsible for the safety of the flight,
> which by default includes portable electronic devices.

Section 91.21: Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may
operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow
the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following
U.S.-registered civil aircraft:

(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate
or an operating certificate; or

(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Portable voice recorders;

(2) Hearing aids;

(3) Heart pacemakers;

(4) Electric shavers; or

(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the
aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation
or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier
operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination
required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that
operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In
the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in
command or other operator of the aircraft.

[C Kingsbury]

"Reid & Julie Baldwin" > wrote in message
...
> The news lately has mentioned that the FCC is meeting to discuss relaxing
> the ban on using cell phones in airplanes. Most of the news coverage
focuses
> on the implications for airline passengers. They said that the FAA would
> also
> have to change rules before airline passengers could use cell phones.
> The FCC is mainly concerned with interference with ground based use.
> The FAA is mostly concerned about interference with aircraft electronics.
> Does the FAA prohibit cell phone use in private aircraft, or is that just
an
> FCC rule? If it becomes legal to use a cell phone from the air, I may have
> to look into one of those headset adapters for cell phones.
>

IIRC the FARs do not prohibit the use of cell phones in flight for part 91
ops in VFR. When operating on an IFR flight plan I believe there are
restrictions on operation of equipment that can be construed as a ban on the
use of cellphones. The operative regulation in either case though is with
the FCC who I do believe prohibits airborne use of cell phones, though it is
utterly unenforceable.

As a very frequent airline flyer, this sounds like an awful idea to me.
First, it's bad enough having to listen to the guys yelling into their
phones before they shut the door. Second, those 2-5 hours I'm in the
aluminum tube are the last hours of my life when my
boss/clients/girlfriend/etc do not expect me to be reachable by phone,
email, or text message. I'd much rather keep it that way.

-cwk.

[[email protected]]

"Reid & Julie Baldwin" wrote:
> The news lately has mentioned that the FCC is meeting to
> discuss relaxing the ban on using cell phones in airplanes.

Interference and electronics aside, just out of common COURTESY to
others, I hope the current rule is upheld.

How many calls CAN'T wait until the passenger is back on the ground? In
airliners, subjecting the person/people in seats around you to your
cellphone chatter when there's no choice about where you sit is both
inconsiderate and rude.

We have cellphones belonging to employees and customers ringing every
few minutes at work, 98% of which calls could have waited until a break,
lunch or after hours ... how do I know? because everyone in the entire
work area can hear the conversations whether they want to or not! Ditto
for restaurants, where being seated next to a table with an incessantly
ringing cellphone and the ensuing loud conversations is as much of an
intrusion as a toddler standing up in the booth behind you screaming in
your ear while you try to enjoy the quiet, relaxing dinner you waited
all week for.

The Post Office now has signs that read: "Please turn off your
cellphone. This is a cellphone-free establishment." Bravo! ...
cellphones are terrific for true emergencies, but some people have them
permanently attached to their ear, calling to announce whenever they
break a nail or lose an eyelash.

How many questionable things do you see people on the road do while they
have their cellphone up to their ear. I shudder to think about pilots
talking on their cellphone about who's going to the Christmas party and
with whom while missing another aircraft announcing their position and
intentions.

Aren't there *enough* potential distractions without adding CELLPHONES
to that mix?

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jose wrote:
>
> It's an FCC rule, designed to avoid overloading the old style analog
> cell sites. The rule is thought not to apply to the newer digital
> cell service (but I don't think it's been tested in court).

It's never going to be tested in court because the FCC regulations explicitly
state that you may legally use PCS phones in the air. One problem there is that
most PCS phones still fall back on the old AMPS frequencies when they can't
connect over the higher frequencies.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Jose]

> the FCC regulations explicitly
> state that you may legally use PCS phones in the air.

Didn't know that. Can you point to the exact wording?

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Trent Moorehead]

> wrote in message
...

> Interference and electronics aside, just out of common COURTESY to
> others, I hope the current rule is upheld.

Tell me about it. Just a few minutes ago, while a sales rep guy was talking
to a colleague whose desk is right next to mine, the rep's phone rang. And
rang like a bell, I might add. His ringtone was "Hells Bells" by AC/DC and
it was loud! Now I'm about the biggest AC/DC fan in the world, but
gimmeabreak, it was very annoying. What was even more annoying was how long
it took him to actually answer the dang thing. It was like he wanted
everyone to hear his precious ringtone. Jeez.

You think things are bad now, just look around at your run of the mill
teenager. They all have phones nowadays. I went out for lunch one day at a
Subway which is close to the local high school. Four kids sat down at one
table and commenced to text each other or have loud phone conversations the
whole time they were there. Not to mention the annoying ringtones. And if
you think that a business person's phone rings a lot, you haven't seen a
teenager in action. I'm afraid there is a whole generation of cell phone
morons coming down the pike!

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[John T]

If it's legal to hold a conversation with somebody (say, in a restaurant or
on a plane), why should it be *illegal* to hold a phone conversation?

Inconsiderate behavior is simply inconsiderate behavior. Legislating or
regulating when you are allowed to speak loudly and otherwise behave
inconsiderate of others around you is doomed to failure - and is indicative
of a country I would not want to live in.

Just because you don't have the spine to ask a loud talker to speak lower
doesn't mean that loud talker should be barred from talking loudly.

Further, I think you do a great disservice to the professionalism of pilots
and crew to suggest that simply having the ability to use a cell phone means
they will be used - much less to the detriment of passenger safety.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[John T]

C Kingsbury wrote:
>
> As a very frequent airline flyer, this sounds like an awful idea to
> me. First, it's bad enough having to listen to the guys yelling into
> their phones before they shut the door.

Grow a spine and ask them to quiet down. :)

> Second, those 2-5 hours I'm
> in the aluminum tube are the last hours of my life when my
> boss/clients/girlfriend/etc do not expect me to be reachable by phone,
> email, or text message. I'd much rather keep it that way.

If you tell me what model phone you have, I'm sure I can help find the power
switch for you. At the very least, I can help remove the battery. :)

For whose convenience is the phone: Yours or the people who call you?

To demonstrate, this morning I was "disposing of waste water" (to paraphrase
Casey W.) when my cell phone began vibrating (I don't use an audible ringer
unless I'm home, away from the phone and expecting a call). There's not a
snowball's chance in Hades that I'll answer the phone while taking care of
that kind of business - yet I've seen many others do so. I try to flush
just a little more loudly when presented the opportunity.

Cell phones are not the cause of inconsiderate behavior. Would you rather
treat the symptoms or kill the cancer causing the symptoms?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[Scott D.]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:48:10 -0500, "Reid & Julie Baldwin"
> wrote:

>The news lately has mentioned that the FCC is meeting to discuss relaxing
>the ban on using cell phones in airplanes. Most of the news coverage focuses
>on the implications for airline passengers. They said that the FAA would
>also
>have to change rules before airline passengers could use cell phones.
>The FCC is mainly concerned with interference with ground based use.
>The FAA is mostly concerned about interference with aircraft electronics.
>Does the FAA prohibit cell phone use in private aircraft, or is that just an
>FCC rule? If it becomes legal to use a cell phone from the air, I may have
>to look into one of those headset adapters for cell phones.
>
As far as using a cell phone on a commercial airliner at any of the
flight levels, I would find it hard to believe that they would get any
useful reception. I have attempted to use a cell phone while in the
middle of a part 91 flight at FL210 in an attempt to get in touch with
our mechanic because we were having some issues with our left engine.
My phone has always had reliable reception almost every place I go, so
I was not surprise when I saw that I had 3 bars showing good service,
but by the time I hit my speed dial, I was out of reception, then back
in, then out then back..... We were cruising fast enough that I was
jumping in and out of service that it made the use of the phone
impossible. So we ended up making a precautionary landing at another
airport to have the issue looked at by another mechanic.

Now flying a little 172 or something comparable at low altitudes, then
I think you would be successful.


Scott D.

[John T]

Jose wrote:
>
> Didn't know that. Can you point to the exact wording?

I researched this issue back in August and posted the results here.
http://tinyurl.com/6zary

Feel free to peruse the FCC regs, yourself. They're online at
http://www.fcc.gov

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jose wrote:
>
> Didn't know that. Can you point to the exact wording?

Can't find it anymore - I used to be able to search the regulations, but they've
broken them up into small chunks now. As I recall, it was an explicit statement
to the effect that the prohibition on cell phone usage in the air does not apply
to PCS devices. The regs for broadband PCS are at
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_03/47cfr24_03.html
Regs for cell phones are at
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_03/47cfr22_03.html

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[John T]

Entirely coincidental:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141568,00.html

At least there are *some* people willing to stand up to inconsiderate
behavior. :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[John T]

Entirely coincidental:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141568,00.html

At least there are *some* people willing to stand up to inconsiderate
behavior. :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[Bob Gardner]

If I read the same thing you read, this is a ploy to placate the business
traveler (read "airline"). As I understand it, the airliner will have some
kind of server which receives signals from the passenger's handheld and
relays them to and from ground stations. Far cry from telling everyone and
their brother that they can use their Nokia or whatever to call cells
directly.

Bob Gardner

"Reid & Julie Baldwin" > wrote in message
...
> The news lately has mentioned that the FCC is meeting to discuss relaxing
> the ban on using cell phones in airplanes. Most of the news coverage
> focuses
> on the implications for airline passengers. They said that the FAA would
> also
> have to change rules before airline passengers could use cell phones.
> The FCC is mainly concerned with interference with ground based use.
> The FAA is mostly concerned about interference with aircraft electronics.
> Does the FAA prohibit cell phone use in private aircraft, or is that just
> an
> FCC rule? If it becomes legal to use a cell phone from the air, I may have
> to look into one of those headset adapters for cell phones.
>

[C Kingsbury]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> C Kingsbury wrote:
> >
> > Second, those 2-5 hours I'm
> > in the aluminum tube are the last hours of my life when my
> > boss/clients/girlfriend/etc do not expect me to be reachable by phone,
> > email, or text message. I'd much rather keep it that way.
>
> If you tell me what model phone you have, I'm sure I can help find the
power
> switch for you. At the very least, I can help remove the battery. :)
>
> For whose convenience is the phone: Yours or the people who call you?

If I turn the phone off I'll get an angry message saying "why didn't you
pick up?" The other party may be the boorish one but that doesn't solve my
problem. When I'm on a plane these days I have an excuse for being
unreachable. It's pretty much the last place where that's true.

-cwk.

[C Kingsbury]

"Trent Moorehead" > wrote in message
...

> teenager in action. I'm afraid there is a whole generation of cell phone
> morons coming down the pike!
>

Already happened in Europe. They're well ahead of us when it comes to mobile
phones, technologically and culturally. I used to work for a European
company, and the guys from over there would (a) leave their phones on in
meetings and (b) answer them, frequently leaving the room in the middle of a
discussion to carry on a 10-minute conversation. I'm talking 50-year-old VPs
too, and plenty of the calls were not at all mission-critical.

-cwk.

[G.R. Patterson III]

C Kingsbury wrote:
>
> When I'm on a plane these days I have an excuse for being
> unreachable. It's pretty much the last place where that's true.

Yeah. We used to vacation close to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. One
of the advantages to doing so was that cell phones and pagers don't work there.
On top of that, most of the places we stayed had no phones.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[G.R. Patterson III]

C Kingsbury wrote:
>
> Already happened in Europe. They're well ahead of us when it comes to mobile
> phones, technologically and culturally. I used to work for a European
> company, and the guys from over there would (a) leave their phones on in
> meetings and (b) answer them, frequently leaving the room in the middle of a
> discussion to carry on a 10-minute conversation. I'm talking 50-year-old VPs
> too, and plenty of the calls were not at all mission-critical.

The pagers with keyboards were real popular at BellSouth. Sit down in a meeting
with their executives and look around. At any point in time, half of them would
be punching away at their pagers.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[[email protected]]

"John T" > wrote:
> Further, I think you do a great disservice to the professionalism of pilots
> and crew to suggest that simply having the ability to use a cell phone means
> they will be used - much less to the detriment of passenger safety.

Right...and I'm sure no one would use one while they're driving, either!
HAR!

[John T]

C Kingsbury wrote:
>
> If I turn the phone off I'll get an angry message saying "why didn't
> you pick up?" The other party may be the boorish one but that doesn't
> solve my problem. When I'm on a plane these days I have an excuse for
> being unreachable. It's pretty much the last place where that's true.

It's too bad you need an excuse not to answer the phone... :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[[email protected]]

John T wrote:
> Entirely coincidental:
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141568,00.html
>
> At least there are *some* people willing to stand up to inconsiderate

> behavior. :)
>
> --
> John T

Thanks fo the link. Best part is I know the 2 guys.
Ron

[[email protected]]

Want to know the source of that problem? Look in the mirror.
If you want to let these folks control you in that manner
that's your business - but it sure isn't my style.

There is still a widespread perception that it is necessary
to raise one's voice when speaking on the phone. I can
remember being unable to make a call across Paris about
30 years ago. I also remember a Frenchman who would always
scream at the top of his lungs whenever speaking on the
phone or radio. However, I don't remember problems of that
sort here in the U.S. So I don't know where such ideas
come from.

Having said that, I see no reason why using a cell phone
is inappropriate in any situation where normal person to
person conversation is acceptable. Like in a restaurant,
on a bus or airplane, standing in line, etc. And what
difference does it make whether, in my office, I answer
the phone on my desk or the one on my belt? All that is
required is to keep the volume down - be it one's voice or
ring tones - and to be considerate of others present.

David Johnson

[[email protected]]

Want to know the source of that problem? Look in the mirror.
If you want to let these folks control you in that manner
that's your business - but it sure isn't my style.

There is still a widespread perception that it is necessary
to raise one's voice when speaking on the phone. I can
remember being unable to make a call across Paris about
30 years ago. I also remember a Frenchman who would always
scream at the top of his lungs whenever speaking on the
phone or radio. However, I don't remember problems of that
sort here in the U.S. So I don't know where such ideas
come from.

Having said that, I see no reason why using a cell phone
is inappropriate in any situation where normal person to
person conversation is acceptable. Like in a restaurant,
on a bus or airplane, standing in line, etc. And what
difference does it make whether, in my office, I answer
the phone on my desk or the one on my belt? All that is
required is to keep the volume down - be it one's voice or
ring tones - and to be considerate of others present.

David Johnson

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:48:10 -0500, "Reid & Julie Baldwin"
> wrote:

>The news lately has mentioned that the FCC is meeting to discuss relaxing
>the ban on using cell phones in airplanes.

Flying back from Denver the other day, we had one of those infinite
taxis at Boston, and the cabin gal announced that we were free to use
our cell phones. That already seemed like a relaxation to me!

On the way west, the cabin gal wanted to know if my noise-canceling
earphones were turned off! So she wasn't very relaxed about that. That
was a first for me.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:03:45 GMT, "C Kingsbury"
> wrote:

>As a very frequent airline flyer, this sounds like an awful idea to me.

Me too.

I am amused that the Trailways bus that takes me home from Logan
airport prohibits cell phone use, even though this is one occasion
(telling the spouse that yes, you made the early bus) where a phone
call seems to be justified.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

[OtisWinslow]

Gee .. I just turn mine off when I don't want it to ring. And then if
someone gripes I just say "gee .. that's funny, it didn't ring .. must
be a cell phone thing".

">
> If I turn the phone off I'll get an angry message saying "why didn't you
> pick up?" > -cwk.
>
>

[Trent Moorehead]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Having said that, I see no reason why using a cell phone
> is inappropriate in any situation where normal person to
> person conversation is acceptable. Like in a restaurant,
> on a bus or airplane, standing in line, etc.

I don't know. On one hand, I can see your point, but there's something about
listening to one half of a conversation that's annoying to me. Couple that
with the additional volume that seems to accompany cell calls and it gets
really annoying. Also add on the annoying ringtones that the cell phoner
thinks is so neat. Additionally, the usual delay that the caller experiences
(making for choppy, stilted conversations), not to mention bad signal
strength that creates the, "you're breaking up.....OK....can you hear
me?.......OK, you're back.....NO, you're breaking up
again....Hello....Hello....OK......I can hear you now........Oh you're gone
again.......Hello....etc.

You ever notice that public phones are positioned so that the conversation
you are having is as private as possible? Heck, they used to be in a
booth....with a door..... that closed! Nowadays, folks have no problem
having a personal conversation right next to you on a bus, train, airport
terminal etc. and you can't HELP but overhear because they are 12 inches
away from you (and annoying, see above). Kind of interesting in a "social
experiement" sort of way.

I don't blame the cell phones, they're a great advance. I have one, I hardly
use it, but I have one. I just think that they have allowed rude people to
be even more inconsiderate. Hey maybe someone should come up with a "cell
phone booth". A booth with nothing in it! :)

-Trent
PP-ASEL

[John T]

wrote:
>
> Right...and I'm sure no one would use one while they're driving,
> either! HAR!

Yeah, I constantly find myself comparing flying a plane with driving a car.
:)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[[email protected]]

> I don't blame the cell phones, they're a great advance. I have one, I
hardly
> use it, but I have one. I just think that they have allowed rude
people to
> be even more inconsiderate. Hey maybe someone should come up with a
"cell
> phone booth". A booth with nothing in it! :)

I don't blame the phones either - they just provide a con-
venient excuse for the inconsiderate in our midst to show
their true nature. Personally I make a point of trying to
avoid annoying others - stepping away or outside when I
can, and speaking softly when I can't. It is hard to remember to
silence the ringer when you should, though.

As for having to listen to other people's conversations,
that is a problem whether phones are involved or not.
Perhaps hearing half of a conversation is more annoying
than a whole one. I have had to endure some extremely
annoying conversations in situations where I couldn't
leave (like on a bus, train or plane) - and one or two
abusive monologues intended to irritate everyone within
earshot. Maybe the answer is to keep handy noise canceling
earphones (or a music player of some sort)for use when you want to
escape the sounds made by your unwanted companions.

I remember an incident years ago (before cell phones) in
which I was seated in a restaurant listening to a conversation
on a two-way radio. I was careful to adjust the volume to
a barely audible level - certainly less than the ambient
noise of dozens of people talking at once. My doing so ap-
parently greatly annoyed a man at the next table, who ap-
proached me in a very hostile manner, asking if I intended
to continue listening. I replied in the affirmative -
whereupon he and his companion moved to another table.
Obviously, the threshold of being offended varies greatly
from one person to another. My question is "what is the
difference"? My radio was simply people talking - and we
were surrounded by talking people!

To get back to the original topic of this thread: There is
nothing inherently wrong with using cell phones on airliners
(provided the technical issues are satisfactorily resolved).
>From a passenger's point of view, having a means of using
the time in a productive or diversionary manner helps pass
the time. The real problem lies in being forced to share
an extremely compact space with dozens of strangers - who
may or may not annoy you.

As for private phone booths - yes I remember them. I also
remember that most of them smelled of urine before they
disappeared. They also used to make wall-mounted enclosures
that attempted to provide some measure of sound deadening -
but these seem to have disappeared as well. I think that
the traditional pay phone is likely to disappear in the
near future. I know I never use one unless there is no
alternative.

Maybe the final solution is to pass a law that all cell
phones must be in the form of a helmet - from which all
sounds made or heard by the user must be inaudible to others
at any distance greater than 12 inches.

David Johnson

[Jose]

> I don't blame the phones either - they just provide a con-
> venient excuse for the inconsiderate in our midst to show
> their true nature.

Actually, the phones do share some of the blame. There is little to
no sidetone in cell phones (that I've used). The first time I used a
cell phone I made a call to my aunt to test it out. A few minutes
into the conversation I realized I was shouting into the thing just
like all the other people whose cell conversations I despise. I
wasn't trying to be inconsiderate - but the cues provided by the
earpiece (that I'm being herad) did not exist. With more sidetone in
the earpiece, people naturally talk more quietly.

Now when I use the phone I make extra effort to talk quietly, but it
is not natural the way it is on a regular phone.

> My question is "what is the
> difference"? My radio was simply people talking - and we
> were surrounded by talking people!

One difference is the tone quality. A radio speaker typically emits
only treble, and it =sounds= different from a regular conversation.
The experiment would be interesting repeated through a hi-fi.

I suspect that this is part of the issue with cell phone use while
driving. The sound is tinny, comes through one ear, is often a
tenuous connection, and is full duplex. This requires more brainpower
to process - not enough more that we'd notice without something (like
accident rates) against which to measure it, but more nonetheless. A
two way radio in the car (like an aviation set) would be half duplex,
higher quality, and come in both ears. (Half duplex is important
because it means that you don't have to listen while you're talking.)
I have found it's much easier.

> Maybe the final solution is to pass a law that all cell
> phones must be in the form of a helmet - from which all
> sounds made or heard by the user must be inaudible to others
> at any distance greater than 12 inches.

The cone of silence goes mainstream!

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[[email protected]]

I agree that sidetone is a valuable aid to making the use
of a communications device seem more natural and intuitive.
Perhaps this should be a parameter that is user-adjustable
(at the risk of causing feedback if set too high).

I also agree that the fidelity and perceived audio quality
of small speakers leaves much to be desired. Perhaps such
sound quality is irritating to some people - but then some
are hypersensitive in general. Since I'm a daily user of
such devices, I tend not to notice. I have a "hands free" adapter in my
work vehicle, and agree that using it provides
a remarkable improvement in sound quality. However, I tend
to use the "hands free" feature only when stopped. If the
phone rings while I'm on the road I will invariably pick
up the handset.

I do think that us pilots are more able to use a cell phone
while driving than the average joe. This is probably because
we are accustomed to multitasking and prioritizing our
sensory inputs. That would make an interesting subject for
a study. As for the safety aspect, I am careful to pull
off the road before dialing. Answering or continuing a
conversation already underway requires considerably less
attention.
As for the helmet idea - I'm being facetious, of course!

David Johnson

[Cub Driver]

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:24:19 GMT, Jose >
wrote:

> (Half duplex is important
>because it means that you don't have to listen while you're talking.)

Duplex means the sound travels back and forth; half duplex means
push-to-talk (at which moment the other party is silenced)?

Interesting analysis, thank you. It is certainly true for me that cell
phone conversations, and cell phone users, are particularly annoying.

I have noticed however that the most ubiqutous users--the students at
the state university which is my downtown--are much better than adults
on the streets of say New York. Perhaps because they have grown up
with the thang, so they know not to shout? Certainly I have never
heard a student say, as I heard a presumably high-paid businessman
boast as we were settling into a jet liner at Washington National
Airport, "Guess where I am?"


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

[john szpara]

>Now flying a little 172 or something comparable at low altitudes, then
>I think you would be successful.
>
>
>Scott D.

Speaking of, I was flying at 4,500ft over an area where I normally get
reception. I wanted to call a friend and say "look up, I'm flying over
you." I didn't have any reception.

Does anyone know for certain whether a cell phone interferes with nav
or com?

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT

[Tim B]

I don't know about you, but the traffic separation I consider acceptable in
an airplane is a lot larger than that in a car. Because of that, going
"instrument" in the car to dial the phone is scary :).


> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I do think that us pilots are more able to use a cell phone
> while driving than the average joe. This is probably because
> we are accustomed to multitasking and prioritizing our
> sensory inputs. That would make an interesting subject for
> a study. As for the safety aspect, I am careful to pull
> off the road before dialing. Answering or continuing a
> conversation already underway requires considerably less
> attention.
> As for the helmet idea - I'm being facetious, of course!
>
> David Johnson
>