Re: Owning more expensive than renting

[Jon Kraus]

"My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything like
this."

He's never worked on Mooney then has he. :-) One thing about
Mooney's, either they are leaking now, or they will be :-)

We have some seepage that has appeared on our '79 M20J. We are
monitoring it but we will probably reseal the tanks when it warms up
next spring. I think it is 5-6k or more... Ouch!! At least the Mooney
has plenty of access panels in the tanks. I think they knew they would
eventually leak so they left you a way to get in there to clean out the
old sealant and apply the new.

Oh well what are ya going to do. Let us know how yours turns out Allen.
I feel for ya..

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner

A Lieberman wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:38:17 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>
>>Has anyone found owning more expensive than renting? :-)
>
>
> After my major overhaul after an inflight cylinder failure on my 1976
> Sundowner. I thought I was through the "worst" case scenario, but a new
> problem is about to bite me in my rear end that has my A&P scratching his
> head.....
>
> Last flight, I noticed under the wing root, some blue dye on my nice shiny
> white paint. Thought, ok, maybe when I was topped off, that some fuel
> dripped down and left it's traces. Wiped it off, nothing leaking, so I
> thought.... Flew the plane, landed, no obvious signs of leaking.
>
> Today, go out, same thing, just enough leakage, that it doesn't make it to
> the bottom of the fusalage, nothing on the ground, yet I have a fuel leak
> from the root of the wing.
>
> My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything like this.
> The Sundowner doesn't have any access panels to the fuel tanks! Everything
> is riveted tight as a drum. So.... now do I have a leaky fuel tank, or do
> I have a fuel line problem.
>
> A&P said run it today, with the warmer weather and see if I get seepage.
> Came back, sure enough, very fine strip of blue from fuel seeping out.
>
> I wiped it off after the flight, to see if I get any seepage. I am
> figuring if no seepage, then there is a good chance it's a fuel line
> leaking under pressure. I asked for the tank to be topped off as well.
>
> Either way, it's going to be very expensive to repair.... If it's the
> tank, the entire wing will probably have to be removed from what I gather,
> as it does not appear to be "bladders" according to my A&P.
>
> Total time on airframe is 2253, so be very careful in buying "underused"
> airplanes. Sitting on the ramp is worse then being used on a regular basis
> as I am learning the hard way.
>
> Allen

[Jon Kraus]

"My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything like
this."

He's never worked on Mooney then has he. One thing about Mooney's,
either they are leaking now, or they will be

We have some seepage that has appeared on our '79 M20J. We are
monitoring it but we will probably reseal the tanks when it warms up
next spring. I think it is 5-6k or more... Ouch!! At least the Mooney
has plenty of access panels in the tanks. I think they knew they would
eventually leak so they left you a way to get in there to clean out the
old sealant and apply the new.

Oh well what are ya going to do. Let us know how yours turns out Allen.
I feel for ya..

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner

A Lieberman wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:38:17 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>
>>Has anyone found owning more expensive than renting? :-)
>
>
> After my major overhaul after an inflight cylinder failure on my 1976
> Sundowner. I thought I was through the "worst" case scenario, but a new
> problem is about to bite me in my rear end that has my A&P scratching his
> head.....
>
> Last flight, I noticed under the wing root, some blue dye on my nice shiny
> white paint. Thought, ok, maybe when I was topped off, that some fuel
> dripped down and left it's traces. Wiped it off, nothing leaking, so I
> thought.... Flew the plane, landed, no obvious signs of leaking.
>
> Today, go out, same thing, just enough leakage, that it doesn't make it to
> the bottom of the fusalage, nothing on the ground, yet I have a fuel leak
> from the root of the wing.
>
> My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything like this.
> The Sundowner doesn't have any access panels to the fuel tanks! Everything
> is riveted tight as a drum. So.... now do I have a leaky fuel tank, or do
> I have a fuel line problem.
>
> A&P said run it today, with the warmer weather and see if I get seepage.
> Came back, sure enough, very fine strip of blue from fuel seeping out.
>
> I wiped it off after the flight, to see if I get any seepage. I am
> figuring if no seepage, then there is a good chance it's a fuel line
> leaking under pressure. I asked for the tank to be topped off as well.
>
> Either way, it's going to be very expensive to repair.... If it's the
> tank, the entire wing will probably have to be removed from what I gather,
> as it does not appear to be "bladders" according to my A&P.
>
> Total time on airframe is 2253, so be very careful in buying "underused"
> airplanes. Sitting on the ramp is worse then being used on a regular basis
> as I am learning the hard way.
>
> Allen

[Jon Kraus]

"My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything like
this."

He's never worked on Mooney then has he. One thing about Mooney's,
either they are leaking now, or they will be

We have some seepage that has appeared on our '79 M20J. We are
monitoring it but we will probably reseal the tanks when it warms up
next spring. I think it is 5-6k or more... Ouch!! At least the Mooney
has plenty of access panels in the tanks. I think they knew they would
eventually leak so they left you a way to get in there to clean out the
old sealant and apply the new.

Oh well what are ya going to do. Let us know how yours turns out Allen.
I feel for ya..

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner

A Lieberman wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:38:17 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>
>>Has anyone found owning more expensive than renting? :-)
>
>
> After my major overhaul after an inflight cylinder failure on my 1976
> Sundowner. I thought I was through the "worst" case scenario, but a new
> problem is about to bite me in my rear end that has my A&P scratching his
> head.....
>
> Last flight, I noticed under the wing root, some blue dye on my nice shiny
> white paint. Thought, ok, maybe when I was topped off, that some fuel
> dripped down and left it's traces. Wiped it off, nothing leaking, so I
> thought.... Flew the plane, landed, no obvious signs of leaking.
>
> Today, go out, same thing, just enough leakage, that it doesn't make it to
> the bottom of the fusalage, nothing on the ground, yet I have a fuel leak
> from the root of the wing.
>
> My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything like this.
> The Sundowner doesn't have any access panels to the fuel tanks! Everything
> is riveted tight as a drum. So.... now do I have a leaky fuel tank, or do
> I have a fuel line problem.
>
> A&P said run it today, with the warmer weather and see if I get seepage.
> Came back, sure enough, very fine strip of blue from fuel seeping out.
>
> I wiped it off after the flight, to see if I get any seepage. I am
> figuring if no seepage, then there is a good chance it's a fuel line
> leaking under pressure. I asked for the tank to be topped off as well.
>
> Either way, it's going to be very expensive to repair.... If it's the
> tank, the entire wing will probably have to be removed from what I gather,
> as it does not appear to be "bladders" according to my A&P.
>
> Total time on airframe is 2253, so be very careful in buying "underused"
> airplanes. Sitting on the ramp is worse then being used on a regular basis
> as I am learning the hard way.
>
> Allen

[A Lieberman]

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 01:33:41 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:

> We have some seepage that has appeared on our '79 M20J. We are
> monitoring it but we will probably reseal the tanks when it warms up
> next spring. I think it is 5-6k or more... Ouch!!

Hey Jon,

OUCH is right! Seeing someone else feel my pain sure doesn't make me feel
good!

However, I was doing some googling on my problem, and came up with the
following link Mooney owners like yourself may appreciate.

http://www.mooneypilots.com/M20J_Inspection.htm

Allen

[Dale]

In article >,
A Lieberman > wrote:


>
> A&P said run it today, with the warmer weather and see if I get seepage.
> Came back, sure enough, very fine strip of blue from fuel seeping out.

Every spring on my 182 I would have to tighten the screws holding the
fuel sending units in the wingroot due to a seeping leak.

Make sure all the clamps/fittings are not leaking before you go yanking
the wing off.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Robert M. Gary]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> "My A&P took a look, sure enough, said I have never seen anything
like
> this."
>
> He's never worked on Mooney then has he. :-) One thing about
> Mooney's, either they are leaking now, or they will be :-)
>

There are actually more options than most people realize for a leaking
Mooney wing (there is no fuel tank). When my Mooney started leaking we
decided to try to least expensive method first. We went out and bought
some aviation B-2 fuel sealant. We opened up the top access panels and
(under an A&P supervision) painted the B-2 all over. There is a Mooney
SB on how to do this, just be sure to not plug up the rib fuel flow
holes. We then resealed the access panels using some special sealant we
bought from a Mooney dealer (this sealant doesn't harden so you can
reopen the panels some day). That was over a year ago. We spent $200 on
sealant and A&P time and have not had a drop leak yet.

Another options is a partial reseal. A lot of people think this is a
waste of money, but most of them haven't looked into it seriously.
There is a Mooney factory service center in Oregon (Reliant Aviation)
that specializes in this. They spot seal the tank by taking certain
parts down to the metal and rebuilding them with sealant. Its much less
expensive than a full reseal and they claim that 90% of their customers
don't need a reseal. They claim lots of references of Mooneys still
leak free 10 years later. Expect to pay $3K-$4K.

Another option (ugh) is bladders. For most of us, bladders mean
increased weight and decreased capacity. There is also and AD on them.
Some people like them because they are a "life long" solution (how many
people really own the same plane for 50 years though?). However, if you
get bladders you need to keep your bird full of fuel or they will dry
out. Most of us dont' fly 7 hour missions so hauling around a truck
full of gas just isn't our cup of tea. Expect to pay around $10K

Another option is to full reseal. There are a limited number of places
that can do this, due to state environmental laws (there are none in
California that I know of). For a Mooney with sealant that is pealing
and chipping all over, this is probably the best option. Expect to pay
around $12K. The reseal will probably out live the number of years you
will live.

-Robert