About indentifiers....

[Casey Wilson]

Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include the
name of the airport, or the nearest town.

[Icebound]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:X0gyd.6830$L7.6062@trnddc05...
>
> Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
> encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include
> the name of the airport, or the nearest town.
>

....but if you *DO* get caught with an identifier in Canada or the USA that
you do not know, then your on-line encyclopaedia is here:

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/LID/LIDHME.HTM

[Slick]

Or you can just use duats
"Icebound" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
> news:X0gyd.6830$L7.6062@trnddc05...
> >
> > Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
> > encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include
> > the name of the airport, or the nearest town.
> >
>
> ...but if you *DO* get caught with an identifier in Canada or the USA that
> you do not know, then your on-line encyclopaedia is here:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/LID/LIDHME.HTM
>
>
>




-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----

[Gene Seibel]

Or http://www.airnav.com/airports/
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[kage]

or just drop it into "google"

Karl
"curator" N185KG


"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Or http://www.airnav.com/airports/
> --
> Gene Seibel
> Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
> Because I fly, I envy no one.
>

[Peter MacPherson]

The reason I always use the airport identifier is it's a lot
easier than spelling it all out. ; )

Like the other guys said, you can use Airnav or such to look
them up. Only takes a minute.


"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:X0gyd.6830$L7.6062@trnddc05...
>
> Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
> encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include
> the name of the airport, or the nearest town.
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Casey Wilson" > said:
> Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
>encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include the
>name of the airport, or the nearest town.

I presume you're talking about posts with subject lines like "Good FBO for
BAF" or "Why does ILS23 at QQQ have a bend in the middle?"

Most of these questions are aimed at people who regularly use the airport.
If you don't know the identifier off by heart, then chances are you don't
fly there often enough to answer the questions about it.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
FAQs are like flatulence. Any asshole can produce them.
-- Toni L

[zatatime]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:09:58 GMT, "Peter MacPherson"
> wrote:

>The reason I always use the airport identifier is it's a lot
>easier than spelling it all out. ; )
>
>Like the other guys said, you can use Airnav or such to look
>them up. Only takes a minute.
>
>
>"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
>news:X0gyd.6830$L7.6062@trnddc05...
>>
>> Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
>> encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include
>> the name of the airport, or the nearest town.
>>
>
When you add a minute of everyone's time who's reading it, and compare
it to the few seconds it'll take to write it out, what seems to make
more sense? Which is more readable to the masses? Why should someone
need reference material handy at all times to read a message on a
newsboard? That's like needing to bring reference books with you
whenever you plan on reading a newspaper.

z

[Peter MacPherson]

Paul summed it up pretty well for me here....

I presume you're talking about posts with subject lines like "Good FBO for
BAF" or "Why does ILS23 at QQQ have a bend in the middle?"

Most of these questions are aimed at people who regularly use the airport.
If you don't know the identifier off by heart, then chances are you don't
fly there often enough to answer the questions about it.



"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:09:58 GMT, "Peter MacPherson"
> > wrote:
>
>>The reason I always use the airport identifier is it's a lot
>>easier than spelling it all out. ; )
>>
>>Like the other guys said, you can use Airnav or such to look
>>them up. Only takes a minute.
>>
>>
>>"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
>>news:X0gyd.6830$L7.6062@trnddc05...
>>>
>>> Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
>>> encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please include
>>> the name of the airport, or the nearest town.
>>>
>>
> When you add a minute of everyone's time who's reading it, and compare
> it to the few seconds it'll take to write it out, what seems to make
> more sense? Which is more readable to the masses? Why should someone
> need reference material handy at all times to read a message on a
> newsboard? That's like needing to bring reference books with you
> whenever you plan on reading a newspaper.
>
> z

[Peter Duniho]

"Peter MacPherson" > wrote in message
news:6imyd.226425$5K2.106543@attbi_s03...
> Paul summed it up pretty well for me here....
>
> I presume you're talking about posts with subject lines like "Good FBO for
> BAF" or "Why does ILS23 at QQQ have a bend in the middle?"
>
> Most of these questions are aimed at people who regularly use the airport.
> If you don't know the identifier off by heart, then chances are you don't
> fly there often enough to answer the questions about it.

However, if you're unfamiliar with the airport, you may still find the
ANSWER useful. But you'll never know, because the elite "I know the ID and
it shouldn't matter to you" folks refuse to spell things out.

Just because you don't know the answer to the question, that doesn't mean
the question isn't interesting to you. If we expected only those who knew
the answer to a question to involve themselves with the post at all, then we
could save a LOT of bandwidth by simply having those who know the answer
email it directly back to the original poster. Why post back to the
newsgroup at all?

Bottom line: there ARE people reading these threads who do NOT know the
answer, nor are they necessarily familiar with the airport(s) in question,
and yet who DO have an interest in what's being discussed. It's an
incredibly minor imposition on the person using the abbreviation (be it an
airport ID or whatever) to define the abbreviation, especially for those
that are not part of the basic jargon on the newsgroup (I'll concede on
things like FBO, ATC, IFR, etc.), and it's incredibly wasteful to make
thousands, or possibly even tens of thousands of people look up the
identifier individually.

This is basic Usenet etiquette. It's a common enough request, and for most
people who have any basic sense of having a *usable* Usenet community, it's
regarded as "the right thing to do".

Just spell it out. It's not that hard, and it permits *everyone* to be
involved, not just those who know the secret handshake.

Pete

[XMnushaL8y]

"Peter MacPherson" flying6 wrote:

>Most of these questions are aimed at people who
>regularly use the airport. If you don't know the
>identifier off by heart, then chances are you don't
>fly there often enough to answer the questions about
>it.

True, but just cuz you don't know the answer to the question doesn't mean you
wouldn't be interested in the discussion ... maybe you'd like to know what
airport people are talking about because you might fly there one day, or maybe
you know someone who's going there. Most of us know where to look up
identifiers, but as the other person said, it only takes two seconds to type
out the name so everyone knows right off.

[Peter MacPherson]

Ok, you've convinced me. In the spirit of being a good netizen,
I'll spell it out in the future.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter MacPherson" > wrote in message
> news:6imyd.226425$5K2.106543@attbi_s03...
>> Paul summed it up pretty well for me here....
>>
>> I presume you're talking about posts with subject lines like "Good FBO
>> for
>> BAF" or "Why does ILS23 at QQQ have a bend in the middle?"
>>
>> Most of these questions are aimed at people who regularly use the
>> airport.
>> If you don't know the identifier off by heart, then chances are you don't
>> fly there often enough to answer the questions about it.
>
> However, if you're unfamiliar with the airport, you may still find the
> ANSWER useful. But you'll never know, because the elite "I know the ID
> and it shouldn't matter to you" folks refuse to spell things out.
>
> Just because you don't know the answer to the question, that doesn't mean
> the question isn't interesting to you. If we expected only those who knew
> the answer to a question to involve themselves with the post at all, then
> we could save a LOT of bandwidth by simply having those who know the
> answer email it directly back to the original poster. Why post back to
> the newsgroup at all?
>
> Bottom line: there ARE people reading these threads who do NOT know the
> answer, nor are they necessarily familiar with the airport(s) in question,
> and yet who DO have an interest in what's being discussed. It's an
> incredibly minor imposition on the person using the abbreviation (be it an
> airport ID or whatever) to define the abbreviation, especially for those
> that are not part of the basic jargon on the newsgroup (I'll concede on
> things like FBO, ATC, IFR, etc.), and it's incredibly wasteful to make
> thousands, or possibly even tens of thousands of people look up the
> identifier individually.
>
> This is basic Usenet etiquette. It's a common enough request, and for
> most people who have any basic sense of having a *usable* Usenet
> community, it's regarded as "the right thing to do".
>
> Just spell it out. It's not that hard, and it permits *everyone* to be
> involved, not just those who know the secret handshake.
>
> Pete
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Peter Duniho" > said:
>However, if you're unfamiliar with the airport, you may still find the
>ANSWER useful. But you'll never know, because the elite "I know the ID and

Oh, good point. Ok, I'll try and play nice in the future.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering ******; to the
last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I killfile thee; for hate's
sake I spit my last post at thee! All your base are belong to us!"

[zatatime]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:16:04 GMT, "Peter MacPherson"
> wrote:

>Ok, you've convinced me. In the spirit of being a good netizen,
>I'll spell it out in the future.
>
>Pete

Alright! Thanks.

z

[zatatime]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:19:24 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>Oh, good point. Ok, I'll try and play nice in the future.


Thanks for seeing the other side of the discussion.

z

[Andrew Sarangan]

You are assuming that the reason why ILS23 at QQQ has a bend in the middle
can only be answered by someone from the local area. Someone who knows
enough about approaches and TERPS may be able to answer it even if they
have never been there. Why not open up the question to everyone instead of
focuing on one group?

However, some airport codes such as JFK and LAX may be ok to use without
explanation because even nonpilots know what they stand for.


(Paul Tomblin) wrote in
:

> In a previous article, "Casey Wilson" > said:
>> Please, folks. Some, I'd wager most, of us just don't have
>>encyclopedic memory. When you use an airport identifier, please
>>include the name of the airport, or the nearest town.
>
> I presume you're talking about posts with subject lines like "Good FBO
> for BAF" or "Why does ILS23 at QQQ have a bend in the middle?"
>
> Most of these questions are aimed at people who regularly use the
> airport. If you don't know the identifier off by heart, then chances
> are you don't fly there often enough to answer the questions about it.
>
>

[Morgans]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote

Snipped

> Bottom line: there ARE people reading these threads who do NOT know the
> answer, nor are they necessarily familiar with the airport(s) in question,
> and yet who DO have an interest in what's being discussed.

Snipped
>
> This is basic Usenet etiquette. It's a common enough request, and for
most
> people who have any basic sense of having a *usable* Usenet community,
it's
> regarded as "the right thing to do".
>
> Just spell it out. It's not that hard, and it permits *everyone* to be
> involved, not just those who know the secret handshake.
>
> Pete

Someone stop the presses! I found a subject Pete and I agree on! <VBG>
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

You bring up a very good point. I'd like to take this to a slightly
different direction.

Aircraft Identification:

The problem I have is, there are aircraft that are mentioned in ADs. I
might be very interested in them (we are looking for a reasonable 6
place). But I don't know anything about them. How is one to know if a
plane is a single engine with 6 seats or a twin with 2 seats? Now if
they put a picture with their ad...

Meanwhile, how does ATC know what a Caravan is versus a Sky Bus versus
a Tiger? It sure makes a difference to them when doing spacing for
approaches in IMC. It also helps departure control when you have some
idea of climb speed and rate of climb. So this means that this
information is available somewhere.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Meanwhile, how does ATC know what a Caravan is versus a Sky Bus versus
> a Tiger? It sure makes a difference to them when doing spacing for
> approaches in IMC. It also helps departure control when you have some
> idea of climb speed and rate of climb. So this means that this
> information is available somewhere.
>

The type is indicated on the flight plan, it's up to the controller to be
familiar with the general performance of the type.

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The problem I have is, there are aircraft that are mentioned in ADs.

In airworthiness directives? Or advertisements?

> I might be very interested in them (we are looking for a reasonable 6
> place). But I don't know anything about them. How is one to know if a
> plane is a single engine with 6 seats or a twin with 2 seats? Now if
> they put a picture with their ad...

I'm not sure how this relates to this thread at all. Are you asking about
advertisements on Usenet?

> Meanwhile, how does ATC know what a Caravan is versus a Sky Bus versus
> a Tiger? It sure makes a difference to them when doing spacing for
> approaches in IMC. It also helps departure control when you have some
> idea of climb speed and rate of climb. So this means that this
> information is available somewhere.

No, it doesn't. ATC contacts a variety of aircraft, and so a controller is
generally familiar with most of the common ones. But uncommon ones they
won't necessarily know what kind of performance to expect. They can get an
idea simply by observing the aircraft, and of course basic performance
minimums can be expected when more detailed information is lacking. Or they
can simply ask the pilot what performance the airplane is capable of.

I'm still a little bewildered as to how this relates to the thread about
posting to Usenet.

Pete

[G.R. Patterson III]

wrote:
>
> The problem I have is, there are aircraft that are mentioned in ADs. I
> might be very interested in them (we are looking for a reasonable 6
> place). But I don't know anything about them. How is one to know if a
> plane is a single engine with 6 seats or a twin with 2 seats? Now if
> they put a picture with their ad...

A common technique is to buy a book such as "The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to
Used Airplanes." Another common technique is to use your favorite search engine
to find the performance characteristics. As a last resort, you could call the
owner up and ask -- I've had one or two people do that. Of course, that *does*
mark you as a "tire-kicker", which can get in the way if you get serious about
the plane later.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[[email protected]]

We were talking about not using A/P designators w/o giving some idea of
where the A/P is (e.g., HGR could be a VOR or A/P and is Hagerstown MD,
while CAK is Akron-Canton Ohio -- NOT Canton-Akron).

Along these lines, I thought I'd ask a partly related question.

I know what a PA28-180 is. I know what a P28A is (actually same
aircraft, just the new designator for the flight plans.

But to a new pilot that only has Cessna experience, do they know that
this is a Piper Cherokee? Or am I talking about an Archer?
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

[[email protected]]

Actually, no. If this is on the flight plan, it will be the accepted
designator for that a/c. And the expected cruise true airspeed.

However, what I'm talking about is how pilots identify themselves and
what they are flying.

e.g. "Akron approach, Tiger November 12345 over BRIGGS...."
And then there's "Kent traffic, Cessna November 54321, 10 south
east....", while someone else would say, "Akron-Fulton traffic, Skyhawk
98760, ...."

But this is also how some things are listed in ads. And I'm looking for
something that describes what is what.
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

[[email protected]]

Actually, no. If this is on the flight plan, it will be the accepted
designator for that a/c. And the expected cruise true airspeed.

However, what I'm talking about is how pilots identify themselves and
what they are flying.

e.g. "Akron approach, Tiger November 12345 over BRIGGS...."
And then there's "Kent traffic, Cessna November 54321, 10 south
east....", while someone else would say, "Akron-Fulton traffic, Skyhawk
98760, ...."

But this is also how some things are listed in ads. And I'm looking for
something that describes what is what.
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> [...]
> I know what a PA28-180 is. I know what a P28A is (actually same
> aircraft, just the new designator for the flight plans.
>
> But to a new pilot that only has Cessna experience, do they know that
> this is a Piper Cherokee? Or am I talking about an Archer?

Are you talking about posts on Usenet? If so, then I'd agree that spelling
out the type of aircraft is better than using the manufacturers model
number. That said, at least with Piper their designation actually gives you
some useful information (horsepower in particular) with which to estimate
performance.

If you're not talking about posts on Usenet, I still fail to see the
relevance.

[Blanche]

ICAO identifiers:

www.aopa.org/whatsnew/icaoacdes.html

[[email protected]]

Actually, no. If this is on the flight plan, it will be the accepted
designator for that a/c. And the expected cruise true airspeed.

However, what I'm talking about is how pilots identify themselves and
what they are flying.

e.g. "Akron approach, Tiger November 12345 over BRIGGS...."
And then there's "Kent traffic, Cessna November 54321, 10 south
east....", while someone else would say, "Akron-Fulton traffic, Skyhawk
98760, ...."

But this is also how some things are listed in ads. And I'm looking for
something that describes what is what.
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument