3-point landings

[Ramapriya]

While we were awaiting takeoff clearance at Khartoum recently, an
Ilyushin IL76 Syrian Air cargo plane landed. Just prior to touchdown,
it kinda flattened out from its nose-down final and clearly did a
3-point landing. I was looking at the plane from my starboard window
seat.

During flight, I had an opportunity to talk up our plane's First
Officer (a Syrian, incidentally). When I mentioned the lack of a flare
in the Ilyushin's touchdown, he said he'd seen it too but wasn't unsure
that it might have made a mini-flare which we may not have caught from
our distance of about 75 meters out.

Has anyone here piloted an IL76 often enough to know whether or not it
can indeed do a 3-point landing?

Cheers,

Ramapriya

[Bob Moore]

"Ramapriya" > wrote

> Has anyone here piloted an IL76 often enough to know whether or not it
> can indeed do a 3-point landing?

Any jetliner that is landed too fast will touchdown in a
flat attitude...not very desireable though. Jets are not
"flared" for touchdown in the same sense as we do in small
private planes. Unlike "Cessnas", a jet at normal approach
speed will have a positive attitude which means that the
nosewheel is higher than the main wheels, this is the desired
attitude for touchdown. Most often, the pilot simply raises
the nose a couple of degrees to break the rate of descent
and then put it back where it was for touchdown. The FAA
really frowns on "hold-it-off","nose-high" touchdowns.

Bob Moore
CFI ATP B-707 B-727

[Jose]

> [for jetliners] The FAA
> really frowns on "hold-it-off","nose-high" touchdowns

Why?

Jose
--
Freedom. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Bob Moore]

Jose wrote

>> The FAA really frowns on "hold-it-off","nose-high" touchdowns

> Why?

The airplane will decellerate much better on the ground than
when "floating" or being "held-off".

The flight procedures that the FAA require the airlines to
develope for their flightcrews assume that each takeoff and
landing will be made on the minimum runway required by the
aircraft performance manual. No room for that squeeker.

Bob Moore

[Ramapriya]

What and who did you reply, mate? :))

Ramapriya

[G.R. Patterson III]

Ramapriya wrote:
>
> While we were awaiting takeoff clearance at Khartoum recently, an
> Ilyushin IL76 Syrian Air cargo plane landed. Just prior to touchdown,
> it kinda flattened out from its nose-down final and clearly did a
> 3-point landing. I was looking at the plane from my starboard window
> seat.

I worked on the expansion of Hartsfield back in the late 80s. The Piedmont 737
FLUFs used to make similar approaches. They would basically come in in a dive,
level off just above the runway, and touch down. The nosewheel would definitely
be off the ground at touchdown, though, but not by much.

I guessed at the time that the pilots used that approach because Piedmont flew
into a lot of fairly short fields (like Asheville). Years later, I had an
opportunity to talk with a high-time retired 737 pilot. He stated that that type
of approach was commonly used for short fields, especially ones with obstacles
(which defines Asheville real well). I assume that Piedmont just used it for
every airport as SOP.

Never saw any other airline bring in 737s that way. Never saw a Piedmont 737
landed any other way.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Ramapriya wrote:
>
> What and who did you reply, mate? :))

He quoted part of Bob Moore's post. Perhaps Bob's didn't arrive on your server
yet?

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[G.R. Patterson III]

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:
>
> I worked on the expansion of Hartsfield back in the late 80s.
^^^
70s

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[[email protected]]

I've never heard of the FAA having an opinion about that. The
technique probably has more to do with practicalities than regulations.


Brakes, thrust reversers, spoilers and other lift dump devices all help
airplanes stop.

On most jets these devices don't start working until the wheels hit the
ground. So getting wheels on the ground quickly works better. But
with excess runway hold-it-off greasers are possible and even
desireable in some cases.

Alex

[Peter R.]

G.R. Patterson III ) wrote:

> The Piedmont 737 FLUFs

What's a FLUF? Is it similar to a FLIB (the term of endearment used by
ATC when describing small GA aircraft)?

--
Peter

[Jay Beckman]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> G.R. Patterson III ) wrote:
>
>> The Piedmont 737 FLUFs
>
> What's a FLUF? Is it similar to a FLIB (the term of endearment used by
> ATC when describing small GA aircraft)?
>
> --
> Peter
>

Fat Little Ugly Fellow (in polite company)?

Jay B

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Peter R." wrote:
>
> What's a FLUF? Is it similar to a FLIB (the term of endearment used by
> ATC when describing small GA aircraft)?

The original 737s were short and sorta plump for their length. They always
reminded me of an overweight Me-262.

Anyway, they got dubbed Fat Little Ugly F*ers when the stretched versions came
out.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.