TSA Alien training/citizenship validation rule

[Chris]

For those who are still in holiday mood, the Alien training/citizenship
validation rule is in full effect since Dec. 20:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2004/041220tsa.html

Chris (Green Alien with a Card or something like that)
PP-ASEL, Glider
New Mexico

PS: Actually the SSA should be "thankful" to the TSA, forcing so many
non-US pilots to glider lessions... ;-P

[RobsSanta]

Does the TSA actually believe that this stupid rule is actually going to
stop those who intend the US harm, from obtaining flight training from other
sources.

From what I read in the 9/11 commission report, 2 of them were already
pilots trained overseas

Rob


"Chris" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> For those who are still in holiday mood, the Alien training/citizenship
> validation rule is in full effect since Dec. 20:
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2004/041220tsa.html
>
> Chris (Green Alien with a Card or something like that)
> PP-ASEL, Glider
> New Mexico
>
> PS: Actually the SSA should be "thankful" to the TSA, forcing so many
> non-US pilots to glider lessions... ;-P

[Chris]

"RobsSanta" > wrote in message
news:vfIzd.6932$CH5.3132@fed1read01...
> Does the TSA actually believe that this stupid rule is actually going to
> stop those who intend the US harm, from obtaining flight training from
> other
> sources.
>
> From what I read in the 9/11 commission report, 2 of them were already
> pilots trained overseas
>
> Rob

More likely it will stop your average pilot to be travelling to the states
for training because of the hassle. Lots of $$$$ lost from the US aviation
economy.

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:21:02 -0000, "Chris" > wrote
in >::

>
>More likely it will stop your average pilot to be travelling to the states
>for training because of the hassle.

On the other hand, with the decline in the value of the US$, foreign
pilots seeking training in the US will enjoy a 25% discount: :-(

[tscottme]

"Chris" > wrote in message
...
>
> More likely it will stop your average pilot to be travelling to the states
> for training because of the hassle. Lots of $$$$ lost from the US aviation
> economy.
>
>

I look forward to the prospective pilots staying at home and pressuring
their governments to ease cost/access to flight training and increased
cooperation in destroying terrorists. I don't expect it, but it would be
nice if people around the world didn't expect their desires to be fulfilled
by the US and if not, they give up. Imagine if Germany and Japan's choice
was to go without pilots or make reasonable accomodations to permit adequate
flight training at home.



--

Scott

[Sylvain]

tscottme wrote:
> ... Imagine if Germany and Japan's choice
> was to go without pilots or make reasonable accomodations to permit adequate
> flight training at home.

but they do, for the select few. It's the average joe, the guy who
has no influence whatsoever, who gets shafted. Remember why your
own ancestors moved here in the first place; ok, may be not to get
their flight training, :-) but this is just symptomatic of how the
little guy is often left with no other choice but to seek whatever
he's seeking elsewhere if he was not lucky enough to be born in the
'right' place in the social hierarchy (why didn't your ancestors just
stay wherever they were and changed whatever made them leave?); and
the USA used to be pretty neat for that, that's actually what made
this nation what it is today... but this is getting way out of the
topic of this newsgroup :-)

--Sylvain

[Thomas Borchert]

RobsSanta,

> Does the TSA actually believe that this stupid rule is actually going to
> stop those who intend the US harm, from obtaining flight training from other
> sources.
>

No, they believe the public will feel better with this rule in place, which in
turn will allow those running the TSA to remain in power since the public will
vote for them. But you probably knew that...

Remember all the restrictions on rental trucks back after the WTC bombing and
Oklahoma City?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Tscottme,

> pilots staying at home and pressuring
> their governments to ease cost/access to flight training

Pilots? Pressuring governments? What world do you live in? That doesn't even
work in the US.



> Imagine if Germany and Japan's choice
> was to go without pilots or make reasonable accomodations to permit adequate
> flight training at home.
>

Nobody needs GA pilots. The training of professional pilots in Germany and
Japan is well established - and set up completely independent of GA.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jay Beckman]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Tscottme,
>
>> pilots staying at home and pressuring
>> their governments to ease cost/access to flight training
>
> Pilots? Pressuring governments? What world do you live in? That doesn't
> even
> work in the US.
>
>
>
>> Imagine if Germany and Japan's choice
>> was to go without pilots or make reasonable accomodations to permit
>> adequate
>> flight training at home.
>>
>
> Nobody needs GA pilots. The training of professional pilots in Germany and
> Japan is well established - and set up completely independent of GA.


Bull****...

Here in Arizona, you seemingly can't swing an A&P by his extension cord
without hitting a Piper with the blue and yellow of Lufthansa on it.

The "Boys (and Girls) From Berlin" are major participants in the GA system
of the western United States.

So too, I believe, are pilots training for SAS (the airline, not the British
Military.)

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Sylvain]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Here in Arizona, you seemingly can't swing an A&P by his extension cord
> without hitting a Piper with the blue and yellow of Lufthansa on it.
>
> The "Boys (and Girls) From Berlin" are major participants in the GA system
> of the western United States.
>
> So too, I believe, are pilots training for SAS (the airline, not the British
> Military.)


and the pilots of JAL over in Napa; but I somehow don't think they
will be much affected by the new rules (all taken care of by their
employers, they won't even know it); besides, I wouldn't be
surprised if there weren't any exemption in place for such training
arrangements in the first place.

--Sylvain

[Jay Beckman]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Beckman wrote:
>
>> Here in Arizona, you seemingly can't swing an A&P by his extension cord
>> without hitting a Piper with the blue and yellow of Lufthansa on it.
>>
>> The "Boys (and Girls) From Berlin" are major participants in the GA
>> system of the western United States.
>>
>> So too, I believe, are pilots training for SAS (the airline, not the
>> British Military.)
>
>
> and the pilots of JAL over in Napa; but I somehow don't think they
> will be much affected by the new rules (all taken care of by their
> employers, they won't even know it); besides, I wouldn't be
> surprised if there weren't any exemption in place for such training
> arrangements in the first place.
>
> --Sylvain

Interesting point...

However, the two times that I've been able to say hello to any of the
Lufthansa folks, the IP flying with them said they were just "run of the
mill" freelance CFIs.

So honestly, I'm not sure what the employment situation is for these
instructors or for the contracted operations with whom the "ab initio"
pilots are flying.

Jay B

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> Here in Arizona, you seemingly can't swing an A&P by his extension cord
> without hitting a Piper with the blue and yellow of Lufthansa on it.
>

Exactly my point. They have set up a school outside Germany. And no GA in
Germany is needed - at all. Same for JAL. So how, pray, tell, would a GA
pilot in Germany explain to his government that GA in Germany is needed as
a birthplace for future LH pilots?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:25:14 +0100, Martin Hotze
> wrote in >::


>how do you come to 25%? exchange rate is at 1.35 or so.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&t=2y

[Denny]

Matin, Martin, tsk, tsk, tsk... Remember DAS LIED DER DEUTSCHEN! Their
attitude is exactly what got them selected for professional pilot
training...

Denny
and those of you ugly americans who are not blond and blue eyed, will
be dealt with once we are in charge...

[RobsSanta]

> and the pilots of JAL over in Napa; but I somehow don't think they
> will be much affected by the new rules (all taken care of by their

Or the Air China ones flying out of Ryan

Rob

[RobsSanta]

>> Remember all the restrictions on rental trucks back after the WTC bombing
and
Oklahoma City?

Good point. Where I come from, they don't even need a rental truck

Rob

[[email protected]]

Jay wrote :
>So honestly, I'm not sure what the employment situation is for these
>instructors or for the contracted operations with whom the "ab initio"

>pilots are flying.

I've known a few instructors that worked for the Lufthansa training
centers in Arizona. They were basically freelance CFIs contracting
with the schools. I imagine that they will have to meet the same
requirements as any other instructor that teaches foreign students, but
my guess is that the school will take care of the bulk of the paperwork
and reporting requirements for them. It is, after all, a very large
high-dollar organization (have you seen their private, towered airport
in Mobile, AZ?).

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Jay Beckman]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Jay wrote :
>>So honestly, I'm not sure what the employment situation is for these
>>instructors or for the contracted operations with whom the "ab initio"
>
>>pilots are flying.
>
> I've known a few instructors that worked for the Lufthansa training
> centers in Arizona. They were basically freelance CFIs contracting
> with the schools. I imagine that they will have to meet the same
> requirements as any other instructor that teaches foreign students, but
> my guess is that the school will take care of the bulk of the paperwork
> and reporting requirements for them. It is, after all, a very large
> high-dollar organization (have you seen their private, towered airport
> in Mobile, AZ?).
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>

Hi John,

Yup, I've seen it while on the way to Yuma via the Gila Bend VORTAC.

Hope you had a great Christmas!

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Roger]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:40:12 +0100, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>RobsSanta,
>
>> Does the TSA actually believe that this stupid rule is actually going to
>> stop those who intend the US harm, from obtaining flight training from other
>> sources.
>>
>
>No, they believe the public will feel better with this rule in place, which in
>turn will allow those running the TSA to remain in power since the public will
>vote for them. But you probably knew that...
>
>Remember all the restrictions on rental trucks back after the WTC bombing and
>Oklahoma City?

Errr... No?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Thomas Borchert]

Roger,

> >Remember all the restrictions on rental trucks back after the WTC bombing and
> >Oklahoma City?
>
> Errr... No?
>

My point.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Blueskies]

LAX was selling Euros for $1.51 yesterday...little bit of gouging, eh?


"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:25:14 +0100, Martin Hotze
> > wrote in >::
>
>
>>how do you come to 25%? exchange rate is at 1.35 or so.
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&t=2y
>

[Gig Giacona]

Do they by buy them at the same rate?


"Blueskies" > wrote in message
m...
> LAX was selling Euros for $1.51 yesterday...little bit of gouging, eh?
>
>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:25:14 +0100, Martin Hotze
>> > wrote in >::
>>
>>
>>>how do you come to 25%? exchange rate is at 1.35 or so.
>>
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&t=2y
>>
>
>

[Roger]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:27:27 +0100, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>Roger,
>
>> >Remember all the restrictions on rental trucks back after the WTC bombing and
>> >Oklahoma City?
>>
>> Errr... No?

Kinda where I thought you were headed, but I could have missed
something <:-))

I had planned on flying the Deb to Florida for a shot time while my
wifeis on a bicycle tour later on, but now I'd have to take my
original birth cirtificate and no way am I hauling that around.
Particularly with my propensity to misplace things.

That would have put some hours on the Deb, helped me get some time "in
the system" and spend some time down there getting a tail dragger
endorsement and a bit of aerobatic work.

Looks like that is out now. I may still make the trip on toward the
worst part of winter up here, but it looks like all the flying will be
in the Deb.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>>
>
>My point.

[Blueskies]

"Gig Giacona" > wrote in message ...
> Do they by buy them at the same rate?
>
>
> "Blueskies" > wrote in message m...
>> LAX was selling Euros for $1.51 yesterday...little bit of gouging, eh?
>>
>>
>> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message ...
>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:25:14 +0100, Martin Hotze
>>> > wrote in >::
>>>
>>>
>>>>how do you come to 25%? exchange rate is at 1.35 or so.
>>>
>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&t=2y
>>>
>>


Don't know, didn't notice...

[Peter Duniho]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
m...
> "Gig Giacona" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Do they by buy them at the same rate?
>
> Don't know, didn't notice...

They didn't buy Euros for the same rate that they sold them. No one does.
They wouldn't be able to make any money changing currency if they did.