Chartering a jet for a round-trip "run"

[[email protected]]

There are a number of us living in the same metropolitan area who go to
the same large college about 400-plus miles away, with no direct
airline service between the cities. There are about 10 of us, give or
take. I am thinking this *might* be a sizable enough group to
potentially charter a jet from a suburban airport to College Town for
short trips home (i.e. Thanksgiving, etc.), thus saving us the headache
of driving and making the trip home a lot quicker.

Since there are potentially kids from the College Town area who also go
to school here, I was thinking of maybe advertising some form of
private charter service back-and-forth, so those kids could have a
direct hop home as well.

Questions:
1.) Is there a general market rate for rental of a smaller,
non-executive private aircraft?
2.) Would it be legal for me to "advertise" (I use the word in the
informal sense) this as a transportation service, without being filed
as an air carrier?
3.) Could this be done for, say, around $150/person each way, or even
less?

Just curious...

--ss

[john smith]

Go see a travel agent and ask them to be the single point of contact and
make the arrangements.

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Questions:
> 1.) Is there a general market rate for rental of a smaller,
> non-executive private aircraft?

You started out talking about a jet charter. But at least to me, "smaller,
non-executive private aircraft" rules out jets. Business jets (that is,
those you might charter for only 10 or fewer people) are about as
"executive" as you get.

So, to start out, you might think about being less ambiguous about what
you're asking.

As far as "is there a general market rate", sure. There's a general market
rate for everything. If you can accurately define what it is you're asking
about, someone can tell you what the market rate for that thing is.

> 2.) Would it be legal for me to "advertise" (I use the word in the
> informal sense) this as a transportation service, without being filed
> as an air carrier?

Assuming a normal charter, which would require an operator meeting Part 135
standards, I see no problem with advertising. The operator itself could
advertise of course, and for you to advertise for others to share the costs
of the charter shouldn't be an issue whatsoever.

> 3.) Could this be done for, say, around $150/person each way, or even
> less?

Not in a jet, no. Are you asking about a jet or not?

400 miles is about 3.5 hours in a Cessna 182. Figure $150/hour for pilot
and airplane (as a rough guess...prices do vary a bit, as they do in any
market), and you get a total one-way cost of $525. Split that three ways
(the maximum number of people you can get into a 182 and you get $175/person
each way.

However, you need to keep in mind some things. One is that if you don't
have three more people for the plane to carry on the return trip, you'll
probably have to pay for that too, doubling your cost to $350/person.
Another is that while a 182 can carry a pretty good load, three college
students might find they are limited in how much baggage they can carry. I
remember what I used to haul back and forth between school and parents;
between books, clothes, food, etc. Some trips I would have been
hard-pressed to get me and all my stuff in a 182, never mind three other
kids and their stuff.

Going back to what you originally seemed to be asking about, a chartered jet
is going to cost big $$$. First of all, a jet carrying 10 people is
definitely on the high end of business jets. You would want to make sure
you had all seats filled before you ordered the charter. But more
importantly, no matter what kind of jet you wind up in, the per-seat cost is
generally going to be at *least* what you'd pay for a first-class ticket on
an airline, and unless you get a really good deal, two or three times that
wouldn't be unexpected.

Pete

[[email protected]]

I inaccurately used the term "jet." What I meant was: chartering a
smaller plane (carrying 5-10 passengers or thereabouts) for the trip to
and fro.

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I inaccurately used the term "jet." What I meant was: chartering a
> smaller plane (carrying 5-10 passengers or thereabouts) for the trip to
> and fro.

But a plane that can carry 5-10 passengers is most likely going to be a jet.

You can squeeze 5 into some light twins (and even a couple of singles), not
counting the pilot, but you're going to be baggage-limited. Anything more
than that and you're talking a big twin, probably a jet.

In any case, my comments still stand. I gave you rough prices for the two
ends of the spectrum. You can expect charters for intermediate types of
airplanes (larger single-engine airplanes, piston twins, etc.) to fall
somewhere in between.

Of course, until you get an actual quote from an actual charter operator for
an actual flight, you won't really know what the cost would be.

Pete

[Larry Dighera]

On 1 Jan 2005 09:54:20 -0800, wrote in
om>::

>I am thinking this *might* be a sizable enough group to
>potentially charter a jet from a suburban airport to College Town for
>short trips home (i.e. Thanksgiving, etc.), thus saving us the headache
>of driving and making the trip home a lot quicker.

Have you considered "empty leg" flights?

http://aircharter.izrsolutions.com/content.asp?PageID=14
http://global-jets.com/EmptyLegs.asp

[Martin Hotze]

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 11:46:05 -0800, Peter Duniho wrote:

>>I inaccurately used the term "jet." What I meant was: chartering a
>> smaller plane (carrying 5-10 passengers or thereabouts) for the trip to
>> and fro.
>
>But a plane that can carry 5-10 passengers is most likely going to be a jet.

5 minutes of googling brought up some links:

http://www.benzorentacar.com/charterjetrates.htm
http://www.jetexpress.com/specs.html
http://www.centurionfs.com/rates_info.html

there are sure more outfits around, but here you have some estimates to
start your calculations. the last link comes with really detailled
information.

#m
--
Oh. God. What have we done.

[Don Hammer]

Just call a couple of charter companies for a quote. I don't think
$150 each will get it. You will pay for deadhead to your city and
return after dropping you off. A GIV that will carry 10 will be about
$5K to $6K per hour plus catering and other loose charges such as
landing fees etc. 400 miles is about an hour each way. Cheaper would
be something with props like a commuter, but still much more than
you'd want to pay. Corporate aircraft are never the cheap way to go,
just the most convenient.

When I was in school, we traveled on our thumb. :-)

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[Colin W Kingsbury]

> wrote in message
ups.com...

> Questions:
> 1.) Is there a general market rate for rental of a smaller,
> non-executive private aircraft?

No. If you call 5 charter companies and get a quote for a specific class of
plane on an identical trip you will likely get quotes within a reasonable
range of each other.

> 2.) Would it be legal for me to "advertise" (I use the word in the
> informal sense) this as a transportation service, without being filed
> as an air carrier?

If you get the names of the other nine students, call them up, and say,
"I've got a plane chartered, wanna chip in X bucks for a seat?" you'll
probably be OK. If you put an ad in the school paper OTOH you're getting
onto touchier ground.

> 3.) Could this be done for, say, around $150/person each way, or even
> less?

Probably not. Figure a plane that can carry 8-10 people will charter for
$500-$1000/hour. You'll probably need 3 hours for the trip, and in the worst
case, you'll need to pay to move the plane back, so that's six hours, or
$3000-$6000. No matter how I cut it I don't see getting below $400/person.
There's a reason the airlines don't service this route.

Still, I'd check it out. You never know, you might find somebody eager to
make a deal, although the holidays are usually pretty busy and there aren't
many deals to be had. My suggestion would be to go to the airport in
Smallville and ask around. Go to the FBO or flight school and ask. Keep in
mind though that someone who's willing to charter a plane real cheap may be
flying an old bird, skimping on maintenance, and working their pilots over.

-cwk.

[Steve Foley]

Just out of curiosity, where are you flying from and to?

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> There are a number of us living in the same metropolitan area who go to
> the same large college about 400-plus miles away, with no direct
> airline service between the cities. There are about 10 of us, give or
> take. I am thinking this *might* be a sizable enough group to
> potentially charter a jet from a suburban airport to College Town for
> short trips home (i.e. Thanksgiving, etc.), thus saving us the headache
> of driving and making the trip home a lot quicker.
>
> Since there are potentially kids from the College Town area who also go
> to school here, I was thinking of maybe advertising some form of
> private charter service back-and-forth, so those kids could have a
> direct hop home as well.
>
> Questions:
> 1.) Is there a general market rate for rental of a smaller,
> non-executive private aircraft?
> 2.) Would it be legal for me to "advertise" (I use the word in the
> informal sense) this as a transportation service, without being filed
> as an air carrier?
> 3.) Could this be done for, say, around $150/person each way, or even
> less?
>
> Just curious...
>
> --ss
>

[Capt.Doug]

>"Peter Duniho" wrote in message > But a plane that can carry 5-10
passengers is >most likely going to be a jet.

A jet? Not neccessarily. Nine pax over 400 miles is usually a cabin-class
twin or a turboprop. The KingAir200 has the most name recognition.

> In any case, my comments still stand.

Your comment about advertising is not right. The DOT has been fining persons
who hold out air transportation to the public without the proper
certifications. If you do not have an air taxi certificate, or are
officially recognized as a a broker, you are subject to fines.

D.

[Mike Rapoport]

No jet or twin turboprop can do the trip for $150 per person one way. A
Caravan probably could.

Mike
MU-2




> wrote in message
ups.com...
> There are a number of us living in the same metropolitan area who go to
> the same large college about 400-plus miles away, with no direct
> airline service between the cities. There are about 10 of us, give or
> take. I am thinking this *might* be a sizable enough group to
> potentially charter a jet from a suburban airport to College Town for
> short trips home (i.e. Thanksgiving, etc.), thus saving us the headache
> of driving and making the trip home a lot quicker.
>
> Since there are potentially kids from the College Town area who also go
> to school here, I was thinking of maybe advertising some form of
> private charter service back-and-forth, so those kids could have a
> direct hop home as well.
>
> Questions:
> 1.) Is there a general market rate for rental of a smaller,
> non-executive private aircraft?
> 2.) Would it be legal for me to "advertise" (I use the word in the
> informal sense) this as a transportation service, without being filed
> as an air carrier?
> 3.) Could this be done for, say, around $150/person each way, or even
> less?
>
> Just curious...
>
> --ss
>