Fuel Burn for Mits

[Bravo8500]

Could someone who flies mu2's (I'm thinking short body other than
solataire) help me with these questions?

What altitude would you pick for a 300nm trip, no winds or wx
considered?
What's your fuel flow/hour in climb at sea-level?
What's the flow/hour in climb at 25,000?
Can you expect at least 2000fpm on a standard day, max load?

I'm trying to figure how much fuel they use on a 300 and 600 mile trip.


I'm flying a bonanza for a construction co now, but we want to go
faster and the business is doing good for now. Thinking about a Baron,
or step up to a P-Baron, or step even more up to a short body mu2.
Thanks for any info.

[Mike Rapoport]

I have the flight manual data for my Marquise in FlightMap and it says 665lb
for a 300nm and 1209 for a 600nm flight at ISA . The actual fuel
consumption tends to be about 7% higher than calculated and I would guess
that short model would be about 7% more fuel efficient.

Mike
MU-2

"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Could someone who flies mu2's (I'm thinking short body other than
> solataire) help me with these questions?
>
> What altitude would you pick for a 300nm trip, no winds or wx
> considered?
> What's your fuel flow/hour in climb at sea-level?
> What's the flow/hour in climb at 25,000?
> Can you expect at least 2000fpm on a standard day, max load?
>
> I'm trying to figure how much fuel they use on a 300 and 600 mile trip.
>
>
> I'm flying a bonanza for a construction co now, but we want to go
> faster and the business is doing good for now. Thinking about a Baron,
> or step up to a P-Baron, or step even more up to a short body mu2.
> Thanks for any info.
>

[Bravo8500]

Thanks Mike.

I see that if you stay around 10k you'll go faster, but how much more
fuel does it cost you?

Say my fuel flow is 220/220 (~65 gph) at 19k, what would it be at 10k?

[Mike Rapoport]

You don't go much faster at 10k than FL250 since you are limited to 250Vmo.
Highest speeds are reached at 16-20,000' depending on temp. You are not
going to see 65GPH at FL190 unless you run at partial power which you never
do. I see 220lb/hr at FL280 (Marquise and Solitaire have -10 engines) but
even with the lower-powered -5 or -6 engines you won't see fuel flow that
low at FL190.

I entered a flight from SZT to PDX (which is 296nm) into FlightStar and it
says that it requires 794lb of fuel at 10K' and 674lb at FL200. To figure
out what the real economics are you need to decide how many people are going
and how much fuel you are going to take off with. You don't want to take
off with 1600nm of fuel for a 300nm trip unless the fuel price differencial
is huge. You will burn about 10% of the fuel that you don't need just to
carry it around and you will also climb and cruise slower which increased
your maitenance costs. I would focus on maitenance and fixed costs which
are much larger even in this era of $3 jet A.


Mike
MU-2








"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Thanks Mike.
>
> I see that if you stay around 10k you'll go faster, but how much more
> fuel does it cost you?
>
> Say my fuel flow is 220/220 (~65 gph) at 19k, what would it be at 10k?
>

[Bravo8500]

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Vmo would be a factor at 10k. The
way I figure, a P-Model would be 435/hour plus around 20k anually for
ins,hang,training.

[Mike Rapoport]

Vmo is redline, are you thinking of Mmo? Do you have an insurance quote? I
would guess that it will be close to $20,000/yr if you have been flying a
Baron unless you are a professional pilot. Have you included the cost of
getting to training and staying there? Training alone can cost $10K if you
include flying the airplane there (Orlando). Naturally, that depends on
where you live. It is a real pain and expense if you live in the PNW like I
do :-(

The $435/hr is probably realistic but on a long term basis only. It assumes
that you don't have to replace anything expensive for a long time (boots,
AACM windshields or cabin windows) Also the new maitenance schedule make it
much more expensive if you fly less than 200hrs/yr.

Mike
MU-2


"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks for the info. I didn't realize Vmo would be a factor at 10k. The
> way I figure, a P-Model would be 435/hour plus around 20k anually for
> ins,hang,training.
>

[Bravo8500]

Good info.

If an mu2 (pmodel) has 2400/2400 total time since new on the engines,
but 1500 since hot section, will this be the case: a hot section in 300
hours at 2700, and an overhaul 900 hours later at 3600 hours? Why would
you think a hotsection was done at 900hours; aren't turbines supposed
to last till tbo?


Is this close:
1800 = hot section 50k/50k
3600 = overhaul 100k/100k
5400 = ?

[Mike Rapoport]

"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Good info.
>
> If an mu2 (pmodel) has 2400/2400 total time since new on the engines,
> but 1500 since hot section, will this be the case: a hot section in 300
> hours at 2700, and an overhaul 900 hours later at 3600 hours? Why would
> you think a hotsection was done at 900hours; aren't turbines supposed
> to last till tbo?
>
>
> Is this close:
> 1800 = hot section 50k/50k
> 3600 = overhaul 100k/100k
> 5400 = ?
>
The engines need a hot section inspection at 1800hrs, another hot section
inspection along with a gearbox inspection at 3600 and overhaul at 5400hrs.
You only get the 5400hrs if the engine passes the gearbox inspection.

So yes, the engines will need a HSI in 300hrs and it would probably make
sense to do the gearbox inspection at the same time. Something must have
happened to the engines that made a HSI at 900hrs nessesary. I would find
out what happened.

Turbines last until TBO unless something bad happens to them like FOD
injestion or overtemping.

Your prices are probably too high for the HSI and too low for overhaul. It
really depends on the engine though and how it was operated. Shutdown
without a cool down period and/or short cycles will lead to more expensive
HSI and overhaul expense. Fuel nozzle maitenance is also critical.

You really need to know as much as possible about the engines and hopefully
the training of the current pilot. You want to know if he goes to
FSI/Simcom/Reese Howell annually and also if he goes to PROP and if he has
taken the Honeywell TPE-337 course. Buying an airplane with junk turbine
engines could be a *really* big mistake. I have heard of it happening and
the new buyer being into a F model for the price of a Marquise.

BTW that is a really low time P model. I would find out why. Maybe it sat
on the bottom of Lake Michigan for 20yrs? :-) At the very least it has to
have been flown by pilots who did not fly it much. Most P models probably
have over 5000hrs.

Mike
MU-2

[Bravo8500]

Thanks Mike, scary deal that first turbine is.

[Mike Rapoport]

It shouldn't be scary, but you need to know some things. The expensive
parts (stators and T-wheels) can be looked at with a borescope. The
compressor section can be tested. Buying an airplane with piston engines is
much more of a crapshoot.

Mike
MU-2


"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks Mike, scary deal that first turbine is.
>