Orlando Crash Video

[Jay Honeck]

I finally got some time to put this one up on our site. See it at

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-2005.mpg

It's a HUGE file, sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.
(If you're on dial-up, you may want to skip this one.)

It really shows how little choice the poor Cessna pilot had at the last
moment, when that pickup truck suddenly appeared out of no where. His
choices were either (a) hit the truck, or (b) try to veer to the right
and avoid it.

He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
life in exchange. A true hero.

See all the videos we've collected at:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm

Some are funny, some are tragic, many are educational -- but all are
fascinating.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Martin Hotze]

On 16 Jan 2005 08:01:00 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote:

>http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-2005.mpg
>
>It's a HUGE file,

it would be a good idea to give the exact (or approx.) size of the videos.
what is a huge file?

> sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
>set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.
>(If you're on dial-up, you may want to skip this one.)

can you please avoid spaces in filenames?

#m

btw: your c-130 gif on the left upper navigation is broken.
--
<http://www.terranova.net/content/images/goering.jpg>

[BTIZ]

what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height.. he
did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving than
concrete power poles..

BT

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I finally got some time to put this one up on our site. See it at
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-2005.mpg
>
> It's a HUGE file, sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
> set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.
> (If you're on dial-up, you may want to skip this one.)
>
> It really shows how little choice the poor Cessna pilot had at the last
> moment, when that pickup truck suddenly appeared out of no where. His
> choices were either (a) hit the truck, or (b) try to veer to the right
> and avoid it.
>
> He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
> life in exchange. A true hero.
>
> See all the videos we've collected at:
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm
>
> Some are funny, some are tragic, many are educational -- but all are
> fascinating.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[private]

I wasn't there at the time and cannot comment on this crash.

I would make the observation that roadways are often the worst option for a
"good" landing. Roads may look like a place to try to make a "great"
landing but are usually far to narrow. The power wires, trees and sign
posts adjacent to most roads can contact a wing tip while the aircraft is
still too high to survive the fall. Even a glancing force from dragging a
tree out on the wing tip will cause the aircraft to rotate around the struck
wing and we will see something close to a slow snap roll where the inside
wing will be stalled and the outside wing will rise sharply. This is a
horizontal spin.

Roadways are also full of big heavy steel things both moving and parked and
full of people who will not be aware you are in distress.

Always remember:
"In any emergency you are now flying an aircraft that belongs to your
insurance company in which you hope to preserve the lives of your passengers
and yourself."

If all else fails try to fly the aircraft as far into the crash as you can.

It is better to hit the bottom of a tree almost stopped than to hit near the
top almost flying.

Blue skies to you all

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
> what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height..
he
> did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving
than
> concrete power poles..
>
> BT
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >I finally got some time to put this one up on our site. See it at
> >
> >
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-2005
..mpg
> >
> > It's a HUGE file, sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
> > set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.
> > (If you're on dial-up, you may want to skip this one.)
> >
> > It really shows how little choice the poor Cessna pilot had at the last
> > moment, when that pickup truck suddenly appeared out of no where. His
> > choices were either (a) hit the truck, or (b) try to veer to the right
> > and avoid it.
> >
> > He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
> > life in exchange. A true hero.
> >
> > See all the videos we've collected at:
> >
> > http://www.alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm
> >
> > Some are funny, some are tragic, many are educational -- but all are
> > fascinating.
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
> > Iowa City, IA
> > Pathfinder N56993
> > www.AlexisParkInn.com
> > "Your Aviation Destination"
> >
>
>

[Cockpit Colin]

Firstly, thanks Jay for putting the file up.

Secondly, I have to agree with Martin in that "huge" is somewhat
'relative' - for example, I routinely work with video files in the range of
13 to 20 Giga bytes, which I think of as normal - so I tend to think of your
'huge' 14MB as being 'trivial' (took less than 2 1/2 minutes to download).


"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> On 16 Jan 2005 08:01:00 -0800, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>
>http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-200
5.mpg
> >
> >It's a HUGE file,
>
> it would be a good idea to give the exact (or approx.) size of the videos.
> what is a huge file?
>
> > sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
> >set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.
> >(If you're on dial-up, you may want to skip this one.)
>
> can you please avoid spaces in filenames?
>
> #m
>
> btw: your c-130 gif on the left upper navigation is broken.
> --
> <http://www.terranova.net/content/images/goering.jpg>

[Cockpit Colin]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
> what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height..
he
> did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving
than
> concrete power poles..

I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that this
was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits the wire it
appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops vertically. Sure, nothing
I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't see anything that I would have
thought would have killed anyone, assuming they were belted in good and
tight.

[Hilton]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> It really shows how little choice the poor Cessna pilot had at the last
> moment, when that pickup truck suddenly appeared out of no where. His
> choices were either (a) hit the truck, or (b) try to veer to the right
> and avoid it.
>
> He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
> life in exchange. A true hero.

I think "hero" is... well perhaps we all have a different definition of
"hero". I'd like to know more about the entire accident sequence before
judging the CFI on this one. Wasn't he landing right next to a golf couse?
What other options did he have? Is it really that bad to read-end a truck
at (a guestimate) 20 mph in a 172? (Cessna's groundspeed minus truck's
forward speed) This is all Monday morning QB - I may have made the same
decisions, but since I believe decision making is where we as pilots can
really improve the accident rate, it sure is worth thinking about and
understand the events.

I just think "hero" is too stronge of a word when in some accidents (not
specifically this one), the pilot run of of gas thereby endangering himself
and his passengers, and then lands in a field in a built-up area and is
labeled a "hero".

Hilton

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> I finally got some time to put this one up on our site. See it at
>
>
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-2005.mpg
>


It looked like the pilot originally tried to set up for the golf course
and then opted to try for the road at the last minute when they saw the
golfer on the field. They appeared to be much too high to make the
golf course however.

Once they turned towards the road on the left, the pilot may have
suddenly realized that he was going to overshoot the centerline of the
road and made some small corrections to the right to compensate for the
drift to the left. It did look like he had everything under control
before disappearing behind a set of trees. Once the plane was behind
the trees, the bottom of the left wing settled down on top of a power
line running along side of the road. You can see the power lines sag
down before the plane reappears from behind the trees. Since the left
wing was now riding on top of the power line, the continuing descent
set the plane on a knife edge, shearing off parts of the right wing as
it struck the ground and unfortunately guided the cockpit straight into
the utility pole. The video seems to also show that he was able to
clear the truck if he had made it to the road.

A quick look on terraserver NW of Orlando Executive revealed this golf
course that looks like the site they were aiming for:

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=10&Z=17&X=2310&Y=15808&W=3&qs=%7corlando%7cfl%7c

What a tragedy this is. It looked like they had a real shot of a
successful forced landing. Since most of my flying is over densely
populated areas, I have to wonder how I would've reacted if I were in
their shoes at the time.

[pnw_aviator]

Here is the NTSB prelim report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050113X00046&key=1

[Cockpit Colin]

> What other options did he have? Is it really that bad to read-end a truck
> at (a guestimate) 20 mph in a 172? (Cessna's groundspeed minus truck's

Off memory, isn't VSo in a MAUW 172 something like only 33 knots?

Again off memory I believe they have the numbers for being the safest GA
aeroplane of all time.

[BTIZ]

I would surmised that the death incurred from the instantaneous stop with a
concrete pole.. even then he was still flying.. so hitting that pole at an
estimated 45-55mph.. would be the same as hitting that pole with your light
weight car.. without the benefit of an airbag.

BT

"Cockpit Colin" > wrote in message
...
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
>> what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height..
> he
>> did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving
> than
>> concrete power poles..
>
> I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that
> this
> was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits the wire
> it
> appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops vertically. Sure, nothing
> I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't see anything that I would have
> thought would have killed anyone, assuming they were belted in good and
> tight.
>
>

[Blueskies]

"pnw_aviator" > wrote in message ups.com...
>
> Here is the NTSB prelim report:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050113X00046&key=1
>

You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and still had a running engine, why didn't they try
to land anywhere they could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse it to get to the
airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to see
if the CHT was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need to make a decision right here right
now, on the ground, that if I see low or zero pressure I will land immediately...

[BeaglePig]

"Cockpit Colin" > wrote in
:

> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
>> what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top
>> height..
> he
>> did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more
>> forgiving
> than
>> concrete power poles..
>
> I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that
> this was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits
> the wire it appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops
> vertically. Sure, nothing I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't
> see anything that I would have thought would have killed anyone,
> assuming they were belted in good and tight.
>
>

That last bit when the left side of the cockpit took ALL the brunt of
the electric poll would have done it. Unfortuatly, my bet is, the
pilot's cranium took a good bit of light pole as well.

BeaglePig

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I finally got some time to put this one up on our site. See it at
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/orlando_Cessna_crash_1-2005.mpg
>
> It's a HUGE file, sent to us by a fellow newsgroupie who used his TIVO
> set-up to capture the video, enlarge it, and run it in slow-motion.

For future reference, to you and whoever did the video capture from his
Tivo...

It makes no sense whatsoever to capture the video in slow motion. All that
does is add unnecessary frames. The end viewer can slow the video down if
they like (any decent media player will do that), and adding frames
proportionally expands the size of the file with NO benefit.

On the bright side, you were incorrect about the video being enlarged. It's
actually been reduced from NTSC size (DV capture is usually 640x480, once
the video's been resampled to make square pixels) down to 321x240 pixels,
effectively reducing the size of the file by 3/4ths. :)

I would agree with people who suggest that rather than saying "HUGE" you
just state how large the file is. "HUGE" means practically nothing in terms
of understanding exactly how large the file actually is.

> It really shows how little choice the poor Cessna pilot had at the last
> moment, when that pickup truck suddenly appeared out of no where. His
> choices were either (a) hit the truck, or (b) try to veer to the right
> and avoid it.
>
> He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
> life in exchange. A true hero.

I disagree that the pickup "suddenly appeared out of no where". Maybe it
did, but nothing about the video suggests that the truck was anywhere other
than right on the road all along. It's there traveling in that lane as soon
as the camera's panned enough to the left to show it.

Furthermore, while the outcome was positive for the occupants of the truck,
that's simply a matter of good luck. The resulting crash could just as
easily have ended up with the airplane dropping at 0 forward speed right in
front of the truck. That likely would have had worse consequences than
simply landing the airplane in front of or even on top of the traffic in the
road.

More importantly, a hero would not have lined up on a busy roadway in the
first place when selecting an emergency landing site. Roads are one of the
worst choices for an emergency landing, at least in any developed area, due
to the traffic and (oddly enough) utility poles and lines.

Pete

[Scott D.]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:52:10 GMT, "Blueskies"
> wrote:

>
>"pnw_aviator" > wrote in message ups.com...
>>
>> Here is the NTSB prelim report:
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050113X00046&key=1
>>
>
>You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and still had a running engine, why didn't they try
>to land anywhere they could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse it to get to the
>airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to see
>if the CHT was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need to make a decision right here right
>now, on the ground, that if I see low or zero pressure I will land immediately...
>

Without knowing all the facts of what the engine was sounding like,
what their oil temp was reading, and other gauges (if they had other
gauges) were reading, I too would have gone for the airport, it was
only 8 miles out. Why risk a dangerous off airport landing in a
highly populated area for what could be a bad gauge. I too have had
to make that same decision a few years ago with a gas gauge. In a
twin, I was making a flight that was 3.5 hours long with full tanks
that have a 5.5 hour endurance. Just before I was to arrive at my
destination about 10 min, I noticed that the right tank was showing
near empty with my left tank showing 20+ gallons remaining (which was
where it should have been). I had myself convinced it was a gauge. I
was IMC at night, by myself and in icing conditions, on my final
vector to intercept the LOC when my right engine died. After the "OH
****" thought went through my mind, I hit the cross feed, continued on
with the approach, after what felt like 30min's (of course it was only
probably a few seconds) the engine sprang back to life and I continued
into the airport and landed safely. The next day, I had the thing
checked out and found out that I had a ruptured fuel bladder. Because
it was dark and IMC, I couldn't see the fuel leaking out.

Its really hard to say "I would have" without being in the cockpit and
seeing what the pilot is seeing and hearing and interpreting.

My .02


Scott D

To email remove spamcatcher

[tony roberts]

I would guess that the root of the wing killed the right seater as it
sheared off - a strong chance that the root entered the cockpit.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article >,
"Cockpit Colin" > wrote:

> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:fuxGd.1367$ry.1317@fed1read05...
> > what I fail to understand, is while he was still above tree top height..
> he
> > did not do a 90 right into that golf course.. trees are more forgiving
> than
> > concrete power poles..
>
> I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that this
> was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits the wire it
> appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops vertically. Sure, nothing
> I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't see anything that I would have
> thought would have killed anyone, assuming they were belted in good and
> tight.

[Jay Honeck]

> Secondly, I have to agree with Martin in that "huge" is somewhat
> 'relative' - for example, I routinely work with video files in the range
> of
> 13 to 20 Giga bytes, which I think of as normal - so I tend to think of
> your
> 'huge' 14MB as being 'trivial' (took less than 2 1/2 minutes to download).

Well, for the 70% of American internet users still on dial-up connections, a
14 mb file will take all day to download.

That's "huge" for most people!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
>> life in exchange. A true hero.
>
> I think "hero" is... well perhaps we all have a different definition of
> "hero". I'd like to know more about the entire accident sequence before
> judging the CFI on this one. Wasn't he landing right next to a golf
> couse?

Whether his decision to avoid the pickup truck was stupid or not, he gave
his life in missing it.

The pilot may or may not be a hero in the end -- I don't know the whole
story -- but his final action was, indeed, heroic.

I would hope that counts for something.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Happy Dog]

"Blueskies" > wrote in
> You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and
> still had a running engine, why didn't they try to land anywhere they
> could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse
> it to get to the airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of
> it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to see if the CHT
> was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need
> to make a decision right here right now, on the ground, that if I see low
> or zero pressure I will land immediately...

IIRC, on the Cessna Lycoming, the Gauge and the Idiot Light are separate
circuits. If one or the other remains in the Oil Pressure OK state, and the
temps don't rise, you have oil pressure. If they both indicate oil pressure
loss, it is over. Unless you need to travel some distance (over water,
perhaps) perform a forced approach. Don't rely on the fan for anything.

The video shows him way too high and fast for the fairway. And, if I read
the Terraserver image correctly, that was his only option at that point.

moo

[Hilton]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> >> He chose (b), thus saving everyone in the pickup truck, but gave his
> >> life in exchange. A true hero.
> >
> > I think "hero" is... well perhaps we all have a different definition of
> > "hero". I'd like to know more about the entire accident sequence before
> > judging the CFI on this one. Wasn't he landing right next to a golf
> > couse?
>
> Whether his decision to avoid the pickup truck was stupid or not, he gave
> his life in missing it.

Jay, I never claimed anything the CFI did was "stupid".

Hilton

[Hilton]

Cockpit Colin wrote:
> I wondered the same thing - the other thing I found surprising is that
this
> was a fatal accident - from the point at which the aircraft hits the wire
it
> appears to come to a halt quickly and then drops vertically. Sure, nothing
> I'd like to try in practice, but I didn't see anything that I would have
> thought would have killed anyone, assuming they were belted in good and
> tight.

The same could be said of the fatal Aryton Senna accident (for you Formula
One fans). OK, he was going substantially faster and hit a concrete wall,
but I don't think anyone was expecting anything bad at all - I still
remember watching the accident on TV - bummer he hit the wall, I guess he's
outa the race, that wasn't too bad, he'll just hop out once he's undone his
steering wheel, any minute now, anytime now, soon, gees I hope he's OK. I
think the conscensus afterwards was that his front-right wheel sheered off
and impacted his helmet (please correct me if I'm wrong). I guess sometimes
you get lucky, and sometimes you get unlucky.

A friend of mine once went to see his car after leaving the hospital. The
scrap metal owner refused to believe that anyone in the car had survived.

Y'all be careful out there.

Hilton
P.S.: I don't fly planes without a shoulder harness

[Aardvark]

Fatal plane crash sparks heroic acts
Witnesses rush to a downed Cessna at a College Park golf course; 1 of 2
aboard dies.





The plane was going down -- fast -- and the pilot seemed to be trying to
wrestle it onto the smooth grass of the 18th fairway.

Brandon "Bosco" Cashen could see the Cessna in his rearview mirror as he
was driving past Orlando's Dubsdread Golf Course late Tuesday afternoon.
Its wings were wobbling back and forth as it skimmed the treetops,
barely missing golfers and leaving College Park residents speechless.

Witnesses said the pilot seemed as though he might be able to land
safely, but at the last instant the right wing dipped too low, clipped
the ground and sent the plane flipping into a concrete electrical pole
by the 18th green.

Cashen barely had time to pull over. Everything was moving fast, but
then seemed to slow down. The broken power lines were arcing with
electricity, but Cashen didn't stop to think: He ran to the plane as
fast as he could.

Before the night was over, one person aboard the plane was dead, and
Cashen was being called a hero.

A solid 26-year-old general contractor, Cashen had hoisted himself onto
the wing of the plane's twisted wreckage.

Other witnesses said there were screams from inside the Cessna, someone
calling for help. Cashen doesn't remember.

"I just didn't think," he would say later. "I wanted to make sure
everybody was OK."

Cashen could see two men inside. Steve Schieber, a 26-year-old with a
commercial-pilot rating, was sitting in the left seat. Dan Lawlor, 33,
was in the right seat, unconscious. The two men were co-workers at
Showalter Flying Service in Orlando, friends who had rented the plane
for the day.

Cashen struggled desperately with Schieber's safety harness but couldn't
free him.

Should he wait for firefighters? But what was that smell?

Fuel.

Fuel was leaking from the plane, and the power lines still were sputtering.

People were pouring out of the Dubsdread restaurant. A crowd of 30 or
more onlookers stood back.

Cashen screamed for a knife, maybe a steak knife from inside the
restaurant, anything to cut the harness.

"Someone threw me a pocketknife, and I just started cutting through his
belt," he said.

He grabbed Schieber by the waist of his trousers, lifted him out and
lowered him into the uplifted arms of others on the ground.

Firefighters arrived and yelled for everyone to get back. The fuel could
go up at any second, or someone could get electrocuted.

"Smoke started coming out, so everyone backed away," said Magda I.
Torres, a reporter at nearby 1440 AM (WPRD) radio who saw the crash.

Cashen stayed atop the wreckage.

He tried to reach Lawlor, but Schieber's empty seat was in the way. He
kicked it, over and over, he doesn't remember how many times, until it
broke free. He tossed the seat out and reached for the other man.

The harness, again. The pocketknife, again.

Firefighters were there now, a group of them, holding a rescue basket
above their heads. Cashen lowered Lawlor into the basket as gently as he
could.

The crash site quickly took on a circuslike air, with more than 100
onlookers gathered around yellow crime-scene tape. Mothers pushed
strollers by as a medical helicopter landed on the fairway.

Lawlor died in surgery at Orlando Regional Medical Center. Schieber
remained in critical condition late Tuesday.

From his home in Phoenix, Dennis Lawlor choked back tears as he talked
about his son's love of flying, scuba diving and in-line skating.

"He was very active, very outgoing," Lawlor said. "He is going to be
missed."

Lawlor said his son grew up in Ohio and was in the Air Force from 1990
to 1994. He later attended Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in
Daytona Beach, graduating in 1997. Lawlor also said his son flew charter
planes for Showalter and passed the Air Force Reserve officer test with
flying colors. He planned to join the Reserve and dreamed of becoming a
commercial-airline pilot.

The Cessna was registered to James Grady, the owner of another small
plane that crashed into Lake Barton with a student pilot at the helm in
May. Grady is director of CAP Flying group, a private flying club based
at Orlando Executive Airport.

Grady wasn't aboard the plane Tuesday. Orlando Fire Department
administrators say the Cessna radioed the airport tower at 4:43 p.m. to
report a loss of oil pressure. It is a potentially fatal problem that
can cause an engine to seize, Assistant Fire Chief Greg Hoggatt said.
Witnesses reported the plane came in silently, with no engine noise.

Firefighters anticipated a crash and rushed to the airport.

"The pilot was stating that he did not feel he could make the field,"
Hoggatt said. "He was, in turn, looking for a field, looking for
someplace where he could attempt to land the plane away from buildings,
away from structures, away from citizens."

"He knew he was going down," Hoggatt said. "He's trying to bring in an
aircraft that's on bad oil pressure, the engine is failing, and he's
doing everything to keep it up."

At 4:47 p.m., the plane crashed near the 18th green, its last seconds
captured on video from a WKMG-Channel 6 news helicopter. The plane
temporarily knocked out power to about 900 homes and businesses.

The Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation
Safety Board are investigating the crash.

"From what we can speculate, it looks like he was attempting to use the
18th fairway of the country club to try and land this plane in a short
distance," Hoggatt said. "He did an excellent job. This could have been
a catastrophe."

Tina Seller of Maitland was on the driving range when she saw the plane
flying low and floundering.

"It started to kind of circle and tried to come around. What it was
trying to do was land on the fairway, but it ended up on the . . .
pole," she said. "Those people who got him out, they were heroic."

[Aardvark]

Peter Duniho wrote:


> For future reference, to you and whoever did the video capture from his
> Tivo...
>
> It makes no sense whatsoever to capture the video in slow motion. All that
> does is add unnecessary frames. The end viewer can slow the video down if
> they like (any decent media player will do that), and adding frames
> proportionally expands the size of the file with NO benefit.
>
> On the bright side, you were incorrect about the video being enlarged. It's
> actually been reduced from NTSC size (DV capture is usually 640x480, once
> the video's been resampled to make square pixels) down to 321x240 pixels,
> effectively reducing the size of the file by 3/4ths. :)


IF you look at the Real Player size as it was on the web site
shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y2622114A
Jay's version has a larger viewing area. :)

Thanks Jay !

[Peter Duniho]

"Aardvark" > wrote in message
. ..
> IF you look at the Real Player size as it was on the web site
> shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y2622114A
> Jay's version has a larger viewing area. :)

Well, if the original was compressed to something even smaller, and then
blown up again, that's just dumb.

[Blueskies]

"Happy Dog" > wrote in message .. .
> "Blueskies" > wrote in
>> You know, hindsight is always 20-20, but if they lost oil pressure and still had a running engine, why didn't they
>> try to land anywhere they could right now with what engine they had left rather that trying to nurse it to get to the
>> airport? I'm not sure what I would do now that I think of it; I would have to watch the other engine instruments to
>> see if the CHT was going high (if it was installed) thus confirming oil loss. Maybe need to make a decision right
>> here right now, on the ground, that if I see low or zero pressure I will land immediately...
>
> IIRC, on the Cessna Lycoming, the Gauge and the Idiot Light are separate circuits. If one or the other remains in the
> Oil Pressure OK state, and the temps don't rise, you have oil pressure. If they both indicate oil pressure loss, it
> is over. Unless you need to travel some distance (over water, perhaps) perform a forced approach. Don't rely on the
> fan for anything.
>
> The video shows him way too high and fast for the fairway. And, if I read the Terraserver image correctly, that was
> his only option at that point.
>
> moo
>
>

It looks like they had almost 8 minutes from the time they reported loss of oil pressure to the time they crashed. They
had about 5 minutes from the time they reported loss of pressure to the time they reported the engine failed.

[Happy Dog]

"Blueskies" >
>> IIRC, on the Cessna Lycoming, the Gauge and the Idiot Light are separate
>> circuits. If one or the other remains in the Oil Pressure OK state, and
>> the temps don't rise, you have oil pressure. If they both indicate oil
>> pressure loss, it is over. Unless you need to travel some distance (over
>> water, perhaps) perform a forced approach. Don't rely on the fan for
>> anything.
>>
>> The video shows him way too high and fast for the fairway. And, if I
>> read the Terraserver image correctly, that was his only option at that
>> point.
>
> It looks like they had almost 8 minutes from the time they reported loss
> of oil pressure to the time they crashed. They had about 5 minutes from
> the time they reported loss of pressure to the time they reported the
> engine failed.

I meant the only option at the point the video begins. I may be missing
some information. But the road was a terrible choice and I don't see any
other option but the fairway in his final flight path. And, depending on a
few extra minutes to get to a getter landing site isn't always wise. The
engine can fail unpredictably. If you're over wide open farmland, you might
as head for the longest flattest field and hope you make it. There's
usually lots of options underneath you all the time. Otherwise, pick a spot
and start the drill.

moo

[Jay Honeck]

>> Whether his decision to avoid the pickup truck was stupid or not, he gave
>> his life in missing it.
>
> Jay, I never claimed anything the CFI did was "stupid".

I know.

But some have implied it was.

And, you know, maybe it was. But he had only a few seconds to make a
choice, and -- "there but for the grace of God" -- that could have been any
of us.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

>> Jay's version has a larger viewing area. :)
>
> Well, if the original was compressed to something even smaller, and then
> blown up again, that's just dumb.

Like I said, I didn't dub the video -- it was sent to me by a fellow pilot
from this group.

I only uploaded it, and Jav Henderson (of this group) provides the server
space.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:iA0Hd.12014$OF5.2778@attbi_s52...
> Like I said, I didn't dub the video -- it was sent to me by a fellow pilot
> from this group.

Believe it or not, not EVERY post of mine is for the purpose of calling YOU
dumb.

:)

[Jay Honeck]

> Believe it or not, not EVERY post of mine is for the purpose of calling
> YOU dumb.

Rats -- and here I thought that it was all about me.

You disappoint me.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Hilton]

Jay,

Jay Honeck wrote:
> >> Whether his decision to avoid the pickup truck was stupid or not, he
gave
> >> his life in missing it.
> >
> > Jay, I never claimed anything the CFI did was "stupid".
>
> I know.
>
> But some have implied it was.
>
> And, you know, maybe it was. But he had only a few seconds to make a
> choice, and -- "there but for the grace of God" -- that could have been
any
> of us.

I am fascinated by a pilot's decision making. I have done 'stupid' things -
one made me go get my Instrument Rating. I sit in pilot meetings - the
speaker reads an accident report and the pilots kinda chuckle with a "I
would never do that!" look - but I bet the accident pilot would have thought
the same. I think if we can fix this broken part of flying, we could
seriously improve the statistics.

Hilton

[Ditch]

>the
>speaker reads an accident report and the pilots kinda chuckle with a "I
>would never do that!" look - but I bet the accident pilot would have thought
>the same. I think if we can fix this broken part of flying, we could
>seriously improve the statistics.

Yea...but how? I'm now the Safety Officer at the small cargo company I work for
and this is a problem we have. We are a safe company, but I see it in the
pilot's lounge in the morning...if an accident comes up I hear a lot "what an
idiot, why did he do that?!?" rolling their eyes type of thing.



-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

[Cockpit Colin]

Even a good dial up should be able to move that in a little under an hour.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wlGGd.10869$EG1.6665@attbi_s53...
> > Secondly, I have to agree with Martin in that "huge" is somewhat
> > 'relative' - for example, I routinely work with video files in the range
> > of
> > 13 to 20 Giga bytes, which I think of as normal - so I tend to think of
> > your
> > 'huge' 14MB as being 'trivial' (took less than 2 1/2 minutes to
download).
>
> Well, for the 70% of American internet users still on dial-up connections,
a
> 14 mb file will take all day to download.
>
> That's "huge" for most people!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Cockpit Colin]

> The same could be said of the fatal Aryton Senna accident (for you Formula
> One fans). OK, he was going substantially faster and hit a concrete wall,
> but I don't think anyone was expecting anything bad at all - I still
> remember watching the accident on TV - bummer he hit the wall, I guess
he's
> outa the race, that wasn't too bad, he'll just hop out once he's undone
his
> steering wheel, any minute now, anytime now, soon, gees I hope he's OK. I
> think the conscensus afterwards was that his front-right wheel sheered off
> and impacted his helmet (please correct me if I'm wrong). I guess
sometimes
> you get lucky, and sometimes you get unlucky.

F1 is a religion to me :) - I'm a MS Fan (who incidentally was behind Aryton
at the time).

I'm reminded of a motorist who wears a crash helmet whilst driving -
everyone thinks it's "over the top" - interesting that his occupation is
Neurosurgeon - the guy who gets to deal with all the head trauma from the
MVA.

I've read somewhere of a plan (by some manufacturer) to put an airbag in an
aircraft - don't know any more details.

[Morgans]

"Cockpit Colin" > wrote

> I'm reminded of a motorist who wears a crash helmet whilst driving -
> everyone thinks it's "over the top" - interesting that his occupation is
> Neurosurgeon - the guy who gets to deal with all the head trauma from the
> MVA.
>
> I've read somewhere of a plan (by some manufacturer) to put an airbag in
an
> aircraft - don't know any more details.
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm thinking now of Dale Earnhart. Suppose we all should wear a Hans
Device in the plane?

Tough part is knowing where to stop. Odds of a bad impact are pretty great
in a race car. I wonder how much less in a single engine plane?
--
Jim in NC

[John Doe]

So your point is that there is no such thing as context?

"Cockpit Colin" > wrote:

>Firstly, thanks Jay for putting the file up.
>
>Secondly, I have to agree with Martin in that "huge" is somewhat
>'relative' - for example, I routinely work with video files in the
>range of 13 to 20 Giga bytes, which I think of as normal - so I
>tend to think of your 'huge' 14MB as being 'trivial' (took less
>than 2 1/2 minutes to download).
>
>
....
>
>
>
>Path: newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy. com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsco n02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!lo gbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi .com!news.xtra.co.nz!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>From: "Cockpit Colin" >
>From: "Cockpit Colin" <spam @nospam.com>
>Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
>References: om> >
>Subject: Re: Orlando Crash Video
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