which handheld gps?

[houstondan]

new units are coming out all the time. for those of us in the market
for our first big boy gps handhelds; any pireps please? just do the
2k$garmin and be done with it? what's the real annual commitment to
keep that up and......

my lowrance fishfinder really works fine and will always be in my bag
but it's time.

is the avmap too big?

dan

[Cub Driver]

I sold my Garmin III+ and bought a 296, and while it is a great toy, I
regret having made the change.

The 296 interferes with my (handheld) radio, it's hard to read the map
display when the day is bright (lots of glazing in the Cub), and I
have yet to find a place to mount it securely. (It's not just the Cub.
I had the same problem in the car with the provided mounts: the unit
shakes, and the display can wash out in bright light.)

It is however much easier to use than the old Toblerone bar III+. And
the rechargable battery enables me to cut down on my visits to BJ's
Wholesale Club.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

[Dan Luke]

"Cub Driver" wrote:
> I sold my Garmin III+ and bought a 296, and while it is a great toy, I
> regret having made the change.

My Garmin III Pilot was a great little unit and I also regret selling
it--should have kept it for a backup. However, that design is getting
pretty old and I wouldn't recommend buying one unless a used one could
be had cheaply.

I, too, am less than thrilled with the 296, mostly because of ergonomic
issues:

o The power cable is difficult to remove and my second one is about to
fail because of the stress this puts on the plug.

o Inserting the GPS into its yoke mount is too fussy with the power
cable plugged in. It's easy with the cable unplugged, but then plugging
in the power cable is difficult.

o Having to acknowledge so many "anti-litigation" screens is annoying.

The display washes out somewhat in a bright cabin, but it remains
readable and is a worthwhile tradeoff for the long-lived rechargeable
battery, IMO.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Robert M. Gary]

I have a 296. I've had a SkyMap IIIc. To be honest, if I were to do it
again, I'd probably get the ControlVision software for my Dell Axim. If
you already have a good PDA, its a lot less expensive and you get a
good (possibly better) flight GPS out of it.

[Jay Honeck]

> is the avmap too big?

No -- it's awesome. And the new IV is a bit smaller than our IIIC, which is
even better.

If you're renting, though, it may be a bit clunky to remove/install for each
flight. It requires on-board (cigar lighter) power to light up that huge
color screen.

We've got ours yoke-mounted. See pix of our installation at:
http://alexisparkinn.com/new_interior.htm
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Butler]

houstondan wrote:
> new units are coming out all the time. for those of us in the market
> for our first big boy gps handhelds; any pireps please? just do the
> 2k$garmin and be done with it? what's the real annual commitment to
> keep that up and......
>
> my lowrance fishfinder really works fine and will always be in my bag
> but it's time.
>
> is the avmap too big?

My personal preference is for a smaller unit, and I think monochrome is fine. I
have a Garmin 196 and I like it. The monochrome display means longer battery
life. The smaller size (compared to 296) means it fits gracefully on my yoke.

[[email protected]]

May I suggest something a bit different?

I own a couple of handheld GPSs (including the very nice Lowrance
Airmap 500), and the handheld GPS I have come to use most often is a
Navman PiN PocketPC with built-in GPS ($499 - review at
http://www.pocketpccity.com/articles/2004/9/2004-9-30-Review-Navman-Pocket2.html)
coupled with the freeware PocketFMS (www.pocketFMS.com). There are
other several other good software packages available for it (see
www.palmflying.com for a full list) if you don't like PocketFMS.

There are several reasons I use this now instead of a dedicated
aviation unit:

1. It cost the same/less than most dedicated aviation units
2. It has a very nice, large, bright colour screen
3. The aviation data is very easy to download, given the connection to
a PC
4. It has a built-in road mapping system for when I get to my
destination
5. It includes a ton of other useful PocketPC feature (Spreadsheets,
flight planning
6. You can add WiFi (many FBOs now have free wifi) with an inexpensive
card. With the WiFi, you can download weather etc. and have it overlaid
on the PocketPC moving map GPS
7. It locks on to the GPS satellites better than any of the other GPS
units I have used
8. It comes with a very useful and sturdy 'suction cup' mount. I have
flown 100 hours with it (including some rather bumpy IMC) and never had
it come loose. I *have* had yoke-mounts come loose before tho.
9. The aviation software (I have used a few different packages) is very
easy to use. The eraser tip of a pencil works just fine to select most
things, and you can assign the buttons (in some of the programs) on the
front of the unit to do the things you do most frequently.
10. It runs off the lighter connector, or it's own built-in battery. I
have seen about a 4-5 hour battery life if it is running on the
internal batteries.
11. It is very compact and convenient. I use it as my PDA, and have
(more than once) had the chance to pop down to a local FBO at lunch and
go up for a couple hours. Very nice to have a backup GPS with you at
all times.
12. You can play solitaire on it when sitting out the rain at the FBO
waiting to launch :)

There are many fine units out there. But I prefer ther NavMan setup I
have to my buddy's Garmin 295, the Garmin 196 in another plane I fly,
and my Airmap 500. Just something to consider.

Cheers,

Cap

houstondan wrote:
> new units are coming out all the time. for those of us in the market
> for our first big boy gps handhelds; any pireps please? just do the
> 2k$garmin and be done with it? what's the real annual commitment to
> keep that up and......
>
> my lowrance fishfinder really works fine and will always be in my bag
> but it's time.
>
> is the avmap too big?
>
> dan

[Nathan Young]

On 24 Jan 2005 20:48:56 -0800, "houstondan"
> wrote:

>new units are coming out all the time. for those of us in the market
>for our first big boy gps handhelds; any pireps please? just do the
>2k$garmin and be done with it? what's the real annual commitment to
>keep that up and......

I have had a 295 for 3+ years. I love it. They are available (used)
for < $1000 on eBay.

Firmware updates are free. Jepp database updates are available on
the Garmin website for, I think, ~$35.00.

It is a VFR tool, so there is not a legal requirement to keep the av
database up to date, although it is a pretty good idea to refresh at
least once a year.

-Nathan

[aluckyguess]

I have a 296 and I love the thing. I have a few other GPS units ,but the 296
is my favorite. The more I learn about it the more I like it. It takes a
little time to figure out all the functions. I did want to try the new
Garmin Ique http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=7282
Good luck.

[Blueskies]

> wrote in message oups.com...
> May I suggest something a bit different?
>
> I own a couple of handheld GPSs (including the very nice Lowrance
> Airmap 500), and the handheld GPS I have come to use most often is a
> Navman PiN PocketPC with built-in GPS ($499 - review at
> http://www.pocketpccity.com/articles/2004/9/2004-9-30-Review-Navman-Pocket2.html)
> coupled with the freeware PocketFMS (www.pocketFMS.com). There are
> other several other good software packages available for it (see
> www.palmflying.com for a full list) if you don't like PocketFMS.
>
> There are several reasons I use this now instead of a dedicated
> aviation unit:
>
> 1. It cost the same/less than most dedicated aviation units
> 2. It has a very nice, large, bright colour screen
> 3. The aviation data is very easy to download, given the connection to
> a PC
> 4. It has a built-in road mapping system for when I get to my
> destination
> 5. It includes a ton of other useful PocketPC feature (Spreadsheets,
> flight planning
> 6. You can add WiFi (many FBOs now have free wifi) with an inexpensive
> card. With the WiFi, you can download weather etc. and have it overlaid
> on the PocketPC moving map GPS
> 7. It locks on to the GPS satellites better than any of the other GPS
> units I have used
> 8. It comes with a very useful and sturdy 'suction cup' mount. I have
> flown 100 hours with it (including some rather bumpy IMC) and never had
> it come loose. I *have* had yoke-mounts come loose before tho.
> 9. The aviation software (I have used a few different packages) is very
> easy to use. The eraser tip of a pencil works just fine to select most
> things, and you can assign the buttons (in some of the programs) on the
> front of the unit to do the things you do most frequently.
> 10. It runs off the lighter connector, or it's own built-in battery. I
> have seen about a 4-5 hour battery life if it is running on the
> internal batteries.
> 11. It is very compact and convenient. I use it as my PDA, and have
> (more than once) had the chance to pop down to a local FBO at lunch and
> go up for a couple hours. Very nice to have a backup GPS with you at
> all times.
> 12. You can play solitaire on it when sitting out the rain at the FBO
> waiting to launch :)
>
> There are many fine units out there. But I prefer ther NavMan setup I
> have to my buddy's Garmin 295, the Garmin 196 in another plane I fly,
> and my Airmap 500. Just something to consider.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cap
>


Are there any issues with reception using the built in antenna?

[Blueskies]

Another pocket PC solution, uses Bluetooth. I don't know how well it would live in the cockpit...
http://h40059.www4.hp.com/ipaq/solutions/index.php

> wrote in message oups.com...
> May I suggest something a bit different?
>
> I own a couple of handheld GPSs (including the very nice Lowrance
> Airmap 500), and the handheld GPS I have come to use most often is a
> Navman PiN PocketPC with built-in GPS ($499 - review at
> http://www.pocketpccity.com/articles/2004/9/2004-9-30-Review-Navman-Pocket2.html)
> coupled with the freeware PocketFMS (www.pocketFMS.com). There are
> other several other good software packages available for it (see
> www.palmflying.com for a full list) if you don't like PocketFMS.
>
> There are several reasons I use this now instead of a dedicated
> aviation unit:
>
> 1. It cost the same/less than most dedicated aviation units
> 2. It has a very nice, large, bright colour screen
> 3. The aviation data is very easy to download, given the connection to
> a PC
> 4. It has a built-in road mapping system for when I get to my
> destination
> 5. It includes a ton of other useful PocketPC feature (Spreadsheets,
> flight planning
> 6. You can add WiFi (many FBOs now have free wifi) with an inexpensive
> card. With the WiFi, you can download weather etc. and have it overlaid
> on the PocketPC moving map GPS
> 7. It locks on to the GPS satellites better than any of the other GPS
> units I have used
> 8. It comes with a very useful and sturdy 'suction cup' mount. I have
> flown 100 hours with it (including some rather bumpy IMC) and never had
> it come loose. I *have* had yoke-mounts come loose before tho.
> 9. The aviation software (I have used a few different packages) is very
> easy to use. The eraser tip of a pencil works just fine to select most
> things, and you can assign the buttons (in some of the programs) on the
> front of the unit to do the things you do most frequently.
> 10. It runs off the lighter connector, or it's own built-in battery. I
> have seen about a 4-5 hour battery life if it is running on the
> internal batteries.
> 11. It is very compact and convenient. I use it as my PDA, and have
> (more than once) had the chance to pop down to a local FBO at lunch and
> go up for a couple hours. Very nice to have a backup GPS with you at
> all times.
> 12. You can play solitaire on it when sitting out the rain at the FBO
> waiting to launch :)
>
> There are many fine units out there. But I prefer ther NavMan setup I
> have to my buddy's Garmin 295, the Garmin 196 in another plane I fly,
> and my Airmap 500. Just something to consider.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cap
>
> houstondan wrote:
>> new units are coming out all the time. for those of us in the market
>> for our first big boy gps handhelds; any pireps please? just do the
>> 2k$garmin and be done with it? what's the real annual commitment to
>> keep that up and......
>>
>> my lowrance fishfinder really works fine and will always be in my bag
>> but it's time.
>>
>> is the avmap too big?
>>
>> dan
>

[Jeremy Lew]

Garmin has a new PDA-based aviation GPS which looks kinda cool. It looks
like it docks in a mount/cradle with some extra button controls for direct
to, scrolling, etc.

http://www.garmin.com/products/iQue3600a/

I haven't seen any reviews yet though.

[houstondan]

yea, bout the same time i posted the question, i got an e-mail from
sportys (they have not seen any of my money for a month and they're
wondering if i died, or what?) top item is that ique with some kind of
attachment attached to the lower right side. what is that & how does it
work? does it come off for nonavaition use?? at $1000ish it's in the
range i'm shopping and i can see doing checklists there too. all kinds
of stuff. solitare at 5000ft?
anyway...yes, this garmin iq needs research.


dan

[Kai Glaesner]

Dave,

> [talking about garmin 196] The smaller size (compared to 296) means it
fits gracefully on my yoke.

I was thinking the 196 has the same size compared to the 296 (just lacking
color display)?

Best Regards

Kai

[Thomas Borchert]

Houstondan,

If you are a PDA user, ControlVision or PocketFMS is probably the most
interesting option.

If you like Lowrance, have a look at the Airmaps.

Generally, if the airplanes you fly have a good panel-mount GPS and you
want the handheld as back-up only, I would go with a small greyscale
unit like the Airmap 500.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

> 3. The aviation data is very easy to download, given the connection to
> a PC
>

Which might be changing drastically this fall, when the navdate will not
be provided for free anymore.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Dave Butler]

Kai Glaesner wrote:
> Dave,
>
>
>>[talking about garmin 196] The smaller size (compared to 296) means it
>
> fits gracefully on my yoke.
>
> I was thinking the 196 has the same size compared to the 296 (just lacking
> color display)?

Oh, yeah, you're probably right. I was thinking of another one that is larger,
maybe 295. Never mind. Thanks for the correction.

[[email protected]]

Dan,
After checking out the Garmin GPS pilot III, 196 and the
ControlVision Anywhwere Map, we settled for the Lowrance Airmap 1000
paying around $700 for it last year. The reception seems to be much
better than that of the Garmin (we lost signals a couple of times with
the Garmin but never with the Lowrance on the same routes). The
resolution is great on the 5" screen (we use the dual mode HSI/map and
mount the Lowrance on the copilot's side at angle so that both of us
can see at the same time). It is also very to use and included
everything (yoke mount, external antenna, cigarett adpater and even
rechargeable batteries/charger). It also came with a StreetMap program
for the continental US. I did a quick check on the current prices and
seemed that one can get it for around $600-$650 (with rebate of
something like $175 for users of older Airmap). A google search will
show several old threads where details on the Airmap 500/1000 were
provided by several satisfied users.

Hai Longworth

[Morgans]

"houstondan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> yea, bout the same time i posted the question, i got an e-mail from
> sportys (they have not seen any of my money for a month and they're
> wondering if i died, or what?) top item is that ique with some kind of
> attachment attached to the lower right side. what is that & how does it
> work? does it come off for nonavaition use?? at $1000ish it's in the
> range i'm shopping and i can see doing checklists there too. all kinds
> of stuff. solitare at 5000ft?
> anyway...yes, this garmin iq needs research.
>
>
> dan

I took that to be the GPS receiver and some soft buttons (maybe hard) for
the easy operation of the GPS. It plugs into the expansion slot of the PDA.
--
Jim in NC

[Jonathan Sorger]

Hi Dan,

I shopped around for 3 months or so, and after querying the group, I
settled on the Airmap 1000. I have had it for 4 months now and am
extremely satisfied. I recently earned my Private and it gives me
reassurance (knowing when I'm near Bravo) when flying in complex
airspace (such as the San Francisco Bay Area).

One thing to consider when debating a PDA solution (or so I have been
told by others) is the possibility of entering turbulence, in which case
big buttons are easier to push than small ones. Just a thought.


In . com> houstondan
wrote:
> new units are coming out all the time. for those of us in the market
> for our first big boy gps handhelds; any pireps please? just do the
> 2k$garmin and be done with it? what's the real annual commitment to
> keep that up and......
>
> my lowrance fishfinder really works fine and will always be in my bag
> but it's time.
>
> is the avmap too big?
>
> dan
>
>

[houstondan]

i really appreciate all the help here. this is not an easy (or cheap)
issue. what i have now is a lowrance ifinder which is a non-avaition
unit. really, the more i use it the more i like it. it's kinda like
russian equipment. simple, solid . i'm sort of suprised here. i
started out thinking that garmin was the avaition best but now i
wonder.

is there any real utility (ifr??) in the garmin that's lacking in the
lowrance?? as lovely as the avmap is i just can't get past the power
issue. pda is still an open issue.

dan

[Thomas Borchert]

Houstondan,

> i
> started out thinking that garmin was the avaition best but now i
> wonder.

It's just that their market share is REAL big. That's all.

> is there any real utility (ifr??) in the garmin that's lacking in the
> lowrance??

Not really. Handheld units are never IFR certified. Otherwise, you'll
have to compare features like resolution, battery endurance, street
navigation (if that's important to you) and - important - the number of
accessories that are included in the base price.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

Jonathan,
I agree. I could not see trying to operate the PDA with a stylus in
turbulence. This factor in combination with the small PDA display area
were the reasons we went with the Lowrance Airmap 1000.

Hai Longworth

[Dave Butler]

>>is there any real utility (ifr??) in the garmin that's lacking in the
>>lowrance??
>
>
> Not really. Handheld units are never IFR certified.
<snip>

I've never used Lowrance, but agree that AFAIK there's no compelling reason the
Garmins are any better than Lowrance.

I also agree that handheld units are never IFR certified, but I don't think
that's relevant to the question of whether they have utility. A handheld GPS
navigator has a great deal of utility IFR, in my opinion.

[Flyin'[email protected]]

Which brings me to my question...

I have a PDA and would like to toy around with a GPS, what CF GPS card is
acceptable for a GPS to mess around with while flying? I do not really
want something that has a big external antenna, or requires external
power... Are there any good options for a reasonable price?

"houstondan" > wrote:
> is there any real utility (ifr??) in the garmin that's lacking in the
> lowrance?? as lovely as the avmap is i just can't get past the power
> issue. pda is still an open issue.
>
> dan

--
Mike Flyin'8

[houstondan]

yep...that's where i was getting on the pda issue...izzit going to be
too small and surely they don't expect me to use that silly
stylus-thing (sorry). and that screen is going to get really, really
busy with all that airplane stuff.

pretty much decided to do the lowrance 1000 and unless i can find a
hole in the next day or so it's bought. can't wait. i guess i'll buy
the cd for, like, 25$ although i feel my off has been ripped in that
regard.

let me gush for a minute here and say that y'all and these boards, i
come in thru google to avaition: student, pilot and owner boards, just
are not like the net at all. everyone is so helpful and just nice.
you guys have helped me a lot here as i get started on this flying
stuff. i can't thank y'all enough.

you know what sold me on lowrance? back when i was fishing, i would
use something to bash the fish on the head...stun him...before i
started cutting. my ifinder would work fine for that. and keep on
tickin. looks like i saved something like ...well, for sure over a
grand. kewl.


thanks!!!!!!!!


dan

[Thomas Borchert]

Dave,

> A handheld GPS
> navigator has a great deal of utility IFR, in my opinion.
>

Oh, I absolutely agree! I may have misunderstood Dan's message.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Cub Driver]

On 27 Jan 2005 07:52:17 -0800, "houstondan"
> wrote:

>what i have now is a lowrance ifinder which is a non-avaition
>unit. really, the more i use it the more i like it.

My Garmin III+ was a non-aviation unit. I downloaded a five-dollar
"data chunk" of airports etc within 200 miles and installed Easy GPS
free software on my computer to massage the waypoints.
www.pipercubforum.com/garmin.htm Like your setup, it worked reliably
and well for me. Of course my needs are few: I don't travel far from
home and I almost never have occasion to fly into a towered airport.

That said, the Garmin 296 has wonderful features. It's (literally)
like getting a flat-screen color TV after years with the old BW.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

[Cub Driver]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:20:11 +0100, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>> is there any real utility (ifr??) in the garmin that's lacking in the
>> lowrance??
>
>Not really. Handheld units are never IFR certified.

You could certainly use the 296 (or the 196 for that matter) to get
out of clouds. That's fairly important to me, since the Cub does not
have IFR instruments.

Dunno about the Lowrance, but a wowzer feature in the 296 is its
terrain avoidance page. I used it once to find a radio tower that's
handy for navigation but on that particular day wasn't visible in the
haze.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net