What the heck? Greenbrier TFR?

[Geoffrey Barnes]

So it looks like they have slapped a TFR over the Greenbrier resort in West
Virginia for the entire freakin' weekend. And this time, it's not even for
the president, or vice president, or even anyone in the executive branch.
From what I can gather, all that is happening is that a couple of congress
members are having a "policy weekend" (which, if we can be honest here,
really translates to a "golf outing").

I got this in an e-mail from AOPA today: "AOPA is amazed that members of
Congress require temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) for a visit to The
Greenbrier resort for a policy weekend," said AOPA President Phil Boyer.
"Never before have such visits to a spa required this high a level of
security."

Well, AOPA is not the only one that's amazed. Unless I am mis-reading the
NOTAM, it looks like they have totally locked down the entire Greenbrier
valley airport for the entire weekend. And it's actually supposed to be
nice weather in these parts for a change.

First it was for the President and the Vice President. Now it's congress
members. Pretty soon it will be Supreme Court justices. And then I guess
getting TFRs issues will become the new beltway-insider status symbol for
the Washington set. Is it just me, or is the TFR slope beginning to get a
bit slippery?

[Denny]

First, file an FOI and get the exact facts; and second call ATC and
inquire if you can file a vfr flight plan - it may be that you can fly
by simply filing a flight plan and getting a squawk... However, if the
airspace is really locked down and it is for just a couple of scumbag
politicians, file a lawsuit against the the HSA.... The sooner we begin
challenging the TFR's in court the sooner the courts will be forced to
pay attention to the constitutional issues of the Patriot Act and the
actions of the HSA...

Also, write a letter (not email or phone call) to your two scumbag
congress critters demanding that they provide you with answers as to
why your use of the public spaces of this country are being
infringed...

Denny

[Rob Montgomery]

Why don't they just hold the "policy meeting" in the nuclear bunker on the
property. Or, can a Cessna 172 penetrate a nuclear bunker?

God bless America, and please hurry!

-Rob

"Geoffrey Barnes" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> So it looks like they have slapped a TFR over the Greenbrier resort in
> West
> Virginia for the entire freakin' weekend. And this time, it's not even
> for
> the president, or vice president, or even anyone in the executive branch.
> From what I can gather, all that is happening is that a couple of congress
> members are having a "policy weekend" (which, if we can be honest here,
> really translates to a "golf outing").
>
> I got this in an e-mail from AOPA today: "AOPA is amazed that members of
> Congress require temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) for a visit to The
> Greenbrier resort for a policy weekend," said AOPA President Phil Boyer.
> "Never before have such visits to a spa required this high a level of
> security."
>
> Well, AOPA is not the only one that's amazed. Unless I am mis-reading the
> NOTAM, it looks like they have totally locked down the entire Greenbrier
> valley airport for the entire weekend. And it's actually supposed to be
> nice weather in these parts for a change.
>
> First it was for the President and the Vice President. Now it's congress
> members. Pretty soon it will be Supreme Court justices. And then I guess
> getting TFRs issues will become the new beltway-insider status symbol for
> the Washington set. Is it just me, or is the TFR slope beginning to get a
> bit slippery?
>
>

[Dave Butler]

Rob Montgomery wrote:
> Why don't they just hold the "policy meeting" in the nuclear bunker on the
> property. Or, can a Cessna 172 penetrate a nuclear bunker?
>
> God bless America, and please hurry!

According to an op-ed piece in the Washington Times:

"...congressional Republicans begin their annual bicameral retreat at the
Greenbrier Hotel in White Sulfur Springs, W.Va. today."

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20050126-094203-8819r.htm

The administration will be attempting to convince the legislators to get behind
the president's social security plan. Can't have them distracted by the sounds
of internal-combution engines.

[Rob]

The article implies the president will be present:

"Not only will the president make his pitch, but other key
administration officials like Treasury Secretary John Snow and senior
White House aides will walk lawmakers through an elaborate policy,
communications and political strategy for pushing Social Security
reform."

-R

[Blueskies]

"Denny" > wrote in message oups.com...
> First, file an FOI and get the exact facts; and second call ATC and
> inquire if you can file a vfr flight plan - it may be that you can fly
> by simply filing a flight plan and getting a squawk... However, if the
> airspace is really locked down and it is for just a couple of scumbag
> politicians, file a lawsuit against the the HSA.... The sooner we begin
> challenging the TFR's in court the sooner the courts will be forced to
> pay attention to the constitutional issues of the Patriot Act and the
> actions of the HSA...
>
> Also, write a letter (not email or phone call) to your two scumbag
> congress critters demanding that they provide you with answers as to
> why your use of the public spaces of this country are being
> infringed...
>
> Denny
>


BINGO!

[Randy]

President George W. Bush has made his first stop in the Mountain State
since his re-election. The President met with GOP members of Congress
at the Greenbrier Resort Friday afternoon.

During brief comments, before meeting with lawmakers in a private
session, the President discussed some of the issues he plans to include
in next month's State of the Union Address.

The President says he plans to talk about, among other topics, Social
Security reform, his faith-based agenda, and the War in Iraq.

President Bush told the Republicans that he is proud of the cooperation
between the legislative and executive branches of government. He says
by working together they've solved many problems over the last four
years. The President predicted the cooperation would continue for the
next four year.

President Bush last visit to West Virginia was in September when he
made a campaign appearance in Huntington.
=======================
I

[Geoffrey Barnes]

OK, so the big kahuna was actually there on Friday afternoon. I can bite
off on that part of the TFR. But the TFR goes all weekend. In fact, it
began on Thursday night (the weekend must start early when you are a member
of Congress), and will extend through Sunday afternoon. Now, maybe it is
possible that the president is spending the whole weekend there. I mean, it
is a pretty nice place if you like drinking foul-smelling mineral water.
But that really wouldn't be his pattern; he tends to come in, make his
speech, and depart.

So if he is spending the entire weekend there, then I apologize for making
such a big deal about this. But if he isn't spending the entire Thursday
through Sunday time there, then that still means that this TFR was establish
to protect members of congress. As far as I can recall, that would make
this is the very first instance of a congressional (versus presidential)
TFR.

FAA TO ESTABLISH TFR OVER LEWISBURG THURSDAY THROUGH SUNDAY
AOPA is sending this update to advise pilots in and near Lewisburg,

West Virginia, that the FAA has issued a notam restricting flight in

the area from Thursday, January 27, through Sunday, January 30.

"AOPA is amazed that members of Congress require temporary flight

restrictions (TFRs) for a visit to The Greenbrier resort for a policy

weekend," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "Never before have such

visits to a spa required this high a level of security."

There will be a 10-nautical-mile-radius TFR centered on the

LWB VOR's 140-degree radial at 6 miles, extending up to 10,000 feet

msl. It will be in effect from 8 p.m. local on Thursday until 3 p.m.

local on Sunday. Also, there will be a smaller 5-nm-radius GA no-fly

zone in effect during that time frame. See AOPA Online for the full

text of the notam ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/notams.html#5/0808 )

along with a graphic.



> President George W. Bush has made his first stop in the Mountain State
> since his re-election. The President met with GOP members of Congress
> at the Greenbrier Resort Friday afternoon.

[Martin Hotze]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:36:05 GMT, Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

>So if he is spending the entire weekend there, then I apologize for making
>such a big deal about this.

So you want to say that restricting the people in this manner is OK when it
is for the president?

Hey! This is only a president. There are more to follow. If the current one
(no matter who it is) is gone bring up the vize-president.

#m
--
<http://www.terranova.net/content/images/goering.jpg>

[steve.t]

Actually, since you brought this up, I want to vent my spleen.

How does GA actually do a political stunt that will get the attention
of the courts in a good way, or get political clout, that will stop
these TFRs?

Example: When the truck drivers of this country (or farmers) decide to
make a point, they drive into DC and bring it to a halt for a few hours
or day or so.

Would getting, say, 20 people with slow, but IFR certified a/c to all
file and fly into BWI, Dulles, and National (low pass, no landing) -
simultaneously, get their attention?

The answer is, YES. And GA could get banned. But I do like to fantasize
about doing that with 3 blimps at Ohare to make a point to Da Furher!

So, what GA function that if it were not done for a week would get
their attention? And it must be done in such a way that those who
refrain will not be out of pocket.

I'd love to work on this hot potato, because I honestly don't see AOPA
or EAA making it happen. So I think it must be a grass roots thing.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument
ps. NO, I do not have any Blimp time or hopes of any.

[[email protected]]

ABC and others are reporting that Bush is speaking at the "Congress of
Tomorrow" luncheon in Greenbriar on Saturday to "preview" his state of
the union message. That doesn't explictly say if he's speaking there
in person or not though. Some of his addresses have been remote.

In a Potomac Tracon tour yesterday it was mentioned that "cost and
benefit analysis doesn't apply to security restrictions". Meaning that
the FAA's usual decision process to implement or remove a rule isn't
being used here. Basically the FAA is pretty much at the mercy of the
same DHS security folks as we are and the "hurting GA" argument doesn't
carry water with them.

I think you may be on to something with this "ultimate status symbol"
thing. After all, if a bunker for nuclear war isn't safe from a little
plane, well, that's pretty sad construction. And, if they were having
the luncheon outside the bunker, well then we ought to object for them
not using the facility provided!

-Malcolm Teas

[Jose]

> Example: When the truck drivers of this country (or farmers) decide to
> make a point, they drive into DC and bring it to a halt for a few hours
> or day or so.

It is obvious even to the uneducated that farmers and truck drivers
are essential to the functioning of this country. For such a stunt to
have any chance of working for GA, it would have to be equally obvious
that GA is essential to the functioning of this country.

Figure out how to do that first.

Jose
--
Money: What you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[jsmith]

Old idea.
This was similarly proposed 20 years ago.
With 300 aircraft all squawking, you could overwhelm the BWI ATC radar,
creating havoc with the system. You wouldn't even have to be in the TCA
(if you have to ask, look it up). The only solution ATC had was to
filter all 1200 code beacons, leaving the IFR traffic to scan for
themselves since the ATC radar would not depict the conflicts.

steve.t wrote:
> Actually, since you brought this up, I want to vent my spleen.
>
> How does GA actually do a political stunt that will get the attention
> of the courts in a good way, or get political clout, that will stop
> these TFRs?
>
> Example: When the truck drivers of this country (or farmers) decide to
> make a point, they drive into DC and bring it to a halt for a few hours
> or day or so.
>
> Would getting, say, 20 people with slow, but IFR certified a/c to all
> file and fly into BWI, Dulles, and National (low pass, no landing) -
> simultaneously, get their attention?
>
> The answer is, YES. And GA could get banned. But I do like to fantasize
> about doing that with 3 blimps at Ohare to make a point to Da Furher!
>
> So, what GA function that if it were not done for a week would get
> their attention? And it must be done in such a way that those who
> refrain will not be out of pocket.
>
> I'd love to work on this hot potato, because I honestly don't see AOPA
> or EAA making it happen. So I think it must be a grass roots thing.
>
> Later,
> Steve.T
> PP ASEL/Instrument
> ps. NO, I do not have any Blimp time or hopes of any.
>

[Cub Driver]

On 30 Jan 2005 05:50:49 -0800, " >
wrote:

>I think you may be on to something with this "ultimate status symbol"
>thing.

In that case, ridicule is the best weapon. See Hognose O'Brien's
commentary in today's Aeronews Propwash report:

http://www.aero-news.net/

Cut & paste & pass it along :)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

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