Runway Lighting

[Slick]

What is that thing that the beginning of the active runway that has flashing
lights that flash sequentially toward the runway. I think it was about 4 or
5 lights. My instructor calls it a rabbit, but I can't find it anywhere in
the AIM. Whatever it is, is it listed in the AFD upon whether or not the
airport has it?



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[Bud Turner]

They're called sequenced flashing lights (SFL) and their in the AIM ch 2.


> What is that thing that the beginning of the active runway that has
> flashing
> lights that flash sequentially toward the runway. I think it was about 4
> or
> 5 lights. My instructor calls it a rabbit, but I can't find it anywhere in
> the AIM. Whatever it is, is it listed in the AFD upon whether or not the
> airport has it?

[Bud Turner]

> and their in the AIM ch 2.
they're not their....

[Steven Barnes]

RAIL, Runway Alignment Indicator Lights. Page 9 of AFD


"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is that thing that the beginning of the active runway that has
flashing
> lights that flash sequentially toward the runway. I think it was about 4
or
> 5 lights. My instructor calls it a rabbit, but I can't find it anywhere in
> the AIM. Whatever it is, is it listed in the AFD upon whether or not the
> airport has it?
>
>
>
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[Hilton]

http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/Chap2/aim0201.html#2-1-1

Hilton

[Bob Moore]

"Steven Barnes" wrote
> RAIL, Runway Alignment Indicator Lights. Page 9 of AFD

Mr. Barnes either can't read or doesn't know what he is
talking about and Mr. Turner can't spell.

This is a dangerous place for those who ask questions
and expect real answers.

Bob Moore

[Steven Barnes]

Well then, what *is* the correct answer?

"Bob Moore" > wrote in message
. 122...
> "Steven Barnes" wrote
> > RAIL, Runway Alignment Indicator Lights. Page 9 of AFD
>
> Mr. Barnes either can't read or doesn't know what he is
> talking about and Mr. Turner can't spell.
>
> This is a dangerous place for those who ask questions
> and expect real answers.
>
> Bob Moore

[Toks Desalu]

I still wonders why pilots call that a "rabbit." It doesn't even look like
a rabbit.



"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is that thing that the beginning of the active runway that has
flashing
> lights that flash sequentially toward the runway. I think it was about 4
or
> 5 lights. My instructor calls it a rabbit, but I can't find it anywhere in
> the AIM. Whatever it is, is it listed in the AFD upon whether or not the
> airport has it?
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:21:30 -0500, "Toks Desalu"
> wrote in
>::

>I still wonders why pilots call that a "rabbit." It doesn't even look like
>a rabbit.

Have you ever been to the dog races?

[Matt Barrow]

"Bud Turner" > wrote in message
m...
> > and their in the AIM ch 2.
> they're not their....

Well, if they're not their, where are they?

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:57:30 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote in
>::

>
>"Bud Turner" > wrote in message
m...
>> > and their in the AIM ch 2.
>> they're not their....
>
>Well, if they're not their, where are they?
>

They're there. :-)

[Jack Davis]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:58:03 GMT, "Steven Barnes"
> wrote:

>Well then, what *is* the correct answer?

The "rabbit" is an ALSF - Approach Light System Flashing (or Approach
Light Sequenced Flashing, depending upon who you're asking) "which
appear to the pilot as a ball of light traveling towards the runway at
high speed (twice a second)".

The "RAIL" to which you referred is actually a "REIL"; Runway End
Identifier Lights which is a system that "consists of a pair of
synchronized flashing lights located laterally on each side of the
runway threshold".

(References AIM sections 2-1-1 and 2-1-3)

-Jack Davis
B737

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[BTIZ]

if your instructor does not know the answer... or does not know where to
tell you to go look it up..

what else does he not know... maybe time to find another instructor?

BT

"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is that thing that the beginning of the active runway that has
> flashing
> lights that flash sequentially toward the runway. I think it was about 4
> or
> 5 lights. My instructor calls it a rabbit, but I can't find it anywhere in
> the AIM. Whatever it is, is it listed in the AFD upon whether or not the
> airport has it?
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

[Steven Barnes]

I thought the REIL was the 2 white blinking lights on each side of the
runway threshold.
The "rabbit" is the RAIL or strobe-like lights leading into MALSR and SSALR
type approach lights (according to the legend on page 4 of the AF/D). To be
honest I've always had trouble remembering the subtle differences of the
different approach lights (ALSF, SALSF, MALSR, etc).
Page 9 does say ALSF1 and 2 have "Sequenced Flashing Lights". Are these the
same thing as the RAIL/rabbit? My AIM is in the bedroom, and if I wake up
the wife I'm toast... :-)


"Jack Davis" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:58:03 GMT, "Steven Barnes"
> > wrote:
>
> >Well then, what *is* the correct answer?
>
> The "rabbit" is an ALSF - Approach Light System Flashing (or Approach
> Light Sequenced Flashing, depending upon who you're asking) "which
> appear to the pilot as a ball of light traveling towards the runway at
> high speed (twice a second)".
>
> The "RAIL" to which you referred is actually a "REIL"; Runway End
> Identifier Lights which is a system that "consists of a pair of
> synchronized flashing lights located laterally on each side of the
> runway threshold".
>
> (References AIM sections 2-1-1 and 2-1-3)
>
> -Jack Davis
> B737
>
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[Neil Gould]

Recently, Matt Barrow > posted:

> "Bud Turner" > wrote in message
> m...
>>> and their in the AIM ch 2.
>> they're not their....
>
> Well, if they're not their, where are they?
>
Don't you mean, "whose" are they? ;-)

Neil

[Scott D.]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:49:41 -0800, "BTIZ" >
wrote:

>if your instructor does not know the answer... or does not know where to
>tell you to go look it up..
>
>what else does he not know... maybe time to find another instructor?
>
Oh don't start that again. The guy just asked a simple question about
lighting that deals with instrument approaches. He did not say that
he is working on his instrument ticket. If I had a private pilot
student asking me questions like that, I dont know if I would start
getting technical on him either and start explaining to him how they
work, why they are there, etc.... That would be like going into what
all the lines are on the runway for a precision approach are used for,
he just doesnt need to know the technical stuff like that at this
point. Now if he is working on his instrument rating, then that is
different story. But get the whole story first before making the OP
fell like he has an inadequate instructor.


Scott D

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[Peter Duniho]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> Have you ever been to the dog races?

Or watched a Bugs Bunny cartoon? :)

[Bill Denton]

"Have you ever been to the dog races?"

Which takes us to trivia time...

At dog races, they use a mechanical rabbit. The mechanical rabbit was
invented in Chicago by an attorney, whose name was O'Hare.

O'Hare was in someway connected to the Capone mob. He had a son, and didn't
want his misdeeds to come down upon his son, so he to some extent "ratted
out" the Capone organization.

O'Hare's son, Butch, managed to escape the shame that might have come to him
from his father's association with Capone.

Butch O'Hare became a pilot in the US Navy in WWII, became a hero, and was
killed in action.

Somewhere along the way you may have seen the airport identifier: ORD. It
stands for Orchard Field, which was the original name of the airport that
was later renamed in honor of an heroic Navy pilot.

Chicago's O'Hare airport - ORD





"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:21:30 -0500, "Toks Desalu"
> > wrote in
> >::
>
> >I still wonders why pilots call that a "rabbit." It doesn't even look
like
> >a rabbit.
>
> Have you ever been to the dog races?
>
>

[WRE]

Here's some more trivia.....
Those rabbit lights sequence at a speed of over 4000mph
I read it one of the flying magazines....either Flying or AOPA..can't recall
which




"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Have you ever been to the dog races?"
>
> Which takes us to trivia time...
>
> At dog races, they use a mechanical rabbit. The mechanical rabbit was
> invented in Chicago by an attorney, whose name was O'Hare.
>
> O'Hare was in someway connected to the Capone mob. He had a son, and
> didn't
> want his misdeeds to come down upon his son, so he to some extent "ratted
> out" the Capone organization.
>
> O'Hare's son, Butch, managed to escape the shame that might have come to
> him
> from his father's association with Capone.
>
> Butch O'Hare became a pilot in the US Navy in WWII, became a hero, and was
> killed in action.
>
> Somewhere along the way you may have seen the airport identifier: ORD. It
> stands for Orchard Field, which was the original name of the airport that
> was later renamed in honor of an heroic Navy pilot.
>
> Chicago's O'Hare airport - ORD
>
>
>
>
>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:21:30 -0500, "Toks Desalu"
>> > wrote in
>> >::
>>
>> >I still wonders why pilots call that a "rabbit." It doesn't even look
> like
>> >a rabbit.
>>
>> Have you ever been to the dog races?
>>
>>
>
>

[Rob Montgomery]

So, why didn't they make the rabbit thing bigger, and call it a "hare"?

Sorry,

-Rob

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Have you ever been to the dog races?"
>
> Which takes us to trivia time...
>
> At dog races, they use a mechanical rabbit. The mechanical rabbit was
> invented in Chicago by an attorney, whose name was O'Hare.
>
> O'Hare was in someway connected to the Capone mob. He had a son, and
> didn't
> want his misdeeds to come down upon his son, so he to some extent "ratted
> out" the Capone organization.
>
> O'Hare's son, Butch, managed to escape the shame that might have come to
> him
> from his father's association with Capone.
>
> Butch O'Hare became a pilot in the US Navy in WWII, became a hero, and was
> killed in action.
>
> Somewhere along the way you may have seen the airport identifier: ORD. It
> stands for Orchard Field, which was the original name of the airport that
> was later renamed in honor of an heroic Navy pilot.
>
> Chicago's O'Hare airport - ORD
>
>
>
>
>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:21:30 -0500, "Toks Desalu"
>> > wrote in
>> >::
>>
>> >I still wonders why pilots call that a "rabbit." It doesn't even look
> like
>> >a rabbit.
>>
>> Have you ever been to the dog races?
>>
>>
>
>

[Larry Dighera]

>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:21:30 -0500, "Toks Desalu"
>> > wrote in
>> >::
>>
>> >I still wonders why pilots call that a "rabbit." It doesn't even look
>like
>> >a rabbit.
>>
>> Have you ever been to the dog races?
>>
>
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:31:26 -0600, "Bill Denton"
> wrote in >::

>Which takes us to trivia time...
>
>At dog races, they use a mechanical rabbit. The mechanical rabbit was
>invented in Chicago by an attorney, whose name was O'Hare.
>
>O'Hare was in someway connected to the Capone mob. He had a son, [...}


O'Hare Airport was named after the son of "Easy Eddie" O'Hare, mobster
Al Capone's attorney (who happened to be "Butch" O'Hare, the Navy's
first fighter ace). Chicago is a notoriously lawless place.

[Wizard of Draws]

On 1/29/05 6:51 PM, in article
, "Rob Montgomery"
> wrote:

> So, why didn't they make the rabbit thing bigger, and call it a "hare"?
>
> Sorry,
>
> -Rob
>

'Cause the dude's already got a humongous airport named after him. Anyone
can see that's more than enough.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

[Samuel Nella]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Have you ever been to the dog races?
>
> Or watched a Bugs Bunny cartoon? :)

Or been attacked by an animal foaming at the mouth?

[Samuel Nella]

>> So, why didn't they make the rabbit thing bigger, and call it a
>> "hare"?
>>
>> Sorry,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
> 'Cause the dude's already got a humongous airport named after him.
> Anyone can see that's more than enough.

That only applies to the Irish.

[BTIZ]

So why didn't the instructor just tell him what they are instead of using a
slang term that only goes to confuse the student..

He could have just as easily said " they are sequenced flashing lights, used
to help an instrument pilot find and align himself to the runway at the end
of an instrument approach."..

So then the student goes and looks up "sequence flashing lights"... and
learns.. instead of "rabbits"... and can't find anything..

Scott... me thinks thou dost protest to much.... are you that type of
instructor?

BT

<Scott D.> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:49:41 -0800, "BTIZ" >
> wrote:
>
>>if your instructor does not know the answer... or does not know where to
>>tell you to go look it up..
>>
>>what else does he not know... maybe time to find another instructor?
>>
> Oh don't start that again. The guy just asked a simple question about
> lighting that deals with instrument approaches. He did not say that
> he is working on his instrument ticket. If I had a private pilot
> student asking me questions like that, I dont know if I would start
> getting technical on him either and start explaining to him how they
> work, why they are there, etc.... That would be like going into what
> all the lines are on the runway for a precision approach are used for,
> he just doesnt need to know the technical stuff like that at this
> point. Now if he is working on his instrument rating, then that is
> different story. But get the whole story first before making the OP
> fell like he has an inadequate instructor.
>
>
> Scott D
>
> To email remove spamcatcher

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:32:11 -0500, "Samuel Nella"
> wrote in >::

>Peter Duniho wrote:
>> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Have you ever been to the dog races?
>>
>> Or watched a Bugs Bunny cartoon? :)
>
>Or been attacked by an animal foaming at the mouth?
>

I wonder how long it will take to occur here? :-)

[Scott D.]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:04:10 -0800, "BTIZ" >
wrote:

>
>Scott... me thinks thou dost protest to much.... are you that type of
>instructor?


Not protesting, It just seems like anytime someone comes on this ng
and asks a question, there is always someone saying, "If your
instructor doesn't know, maybe its time to get another one". Or your
CFI is doing this or doing that... Fire Him!. It gets old. I bet if
you do a Google search and almost anytime the word CFI comes up and it
has to deal with training some always says this.

The one thing that I can tell you is that when you are instructing,
this is the time when you really learn about flying. Yea, you might
"THINK" you know most of the knowledge when you get your private
ticket, but I can bet you that you probably don't even know 25%. I
remember when I had my first student. I had maybe 300 hours. It was
the students that taught me. Even now, after all these years, I still
come across a situation where I have to look things up or asking my
fellow pilots who have 25000 hours and they sometimes will not know so
we look it up together (should the company fire them???). looking
something up with the student is the preferable choice, but with this
guy, it may have been a passing question while they were on final and
it was never brought up again in the post flight briefing.

Which brings me to my point. His instructor may be perfectly suited
to meet this persons needs of getting his private license. He may be
a newly minted CFI who is just now in that learning process of how to
teach and teach well. He may not be a CFII. And if that's the case,
he may not actually know the correct term because he may not use that
knowledge everyday. I have seen some people come out of these License
mills and the only thing they were taught was how to pass their
examiners check rides. Its a shame but it happens all the time.
Speaking from my own experience, ( which I did not come from one of
those mills. I did mine all part 61 with a personal instructor) when
I got my instrument rating, I sure as hell didn't know everything off
the top of my head and it was probably 6 months later before I got
myself back into IMC and that was with another pilot on board and I
was NOT comfortable.

One thing that I would tell my students is that I can not teach them
everything about flying. They have to take it upon their own
initiative to learn. To be able to open up a book and read. Ask
questions to other pilots, which is what he is doing here.

Now tell me, besides this post (in your opinion), where have you seen
me protest before?


Scott D

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[John T]

Samuel Nella wrote:
>
> Or been attacked by an animal foaming at the mouth?

"That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!"

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[Big John]

Matt

Off the end of the R/W at Bangor, ME.

Used them a lot in the 60's while stationed there.
A big help lining up in very low ceilings as you could see the flashes
in the fog/low clouds and get on center line to land as soon as you
broke out and saw the R/W.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:57:30 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Bud Turner" > wrote in message
m...
>> > and their in the AIM ch 2.
>> they're not their....
>
>Well, if they're not their, where are they?
>
>