Briefing Dilemma

[Kyle Boatright]

There are days (like today) where the idea is just to fly the airplane. No
specific destination, but if something looks interesting on the ground, or
if I need a Diet Coke or feel the need to unload one, I may land at any of a
dozen nearby airfields... How do you explain this to a FSS briefer? Here's
the discussion I had with the FSS this morning (more or less):

Me to the Briefer: Good Morning, I'll be flying N46KB an Experimental RV-6
today, VFR. Departing at 9:00 local, returning by 3:00 PM, Flying over
North Georgia and East Alabama. Requesting Standard Briefing...

Briefer: What is your destination and cruise altitude?

Me: I don't really have either one. I'm just going flying.

Briefer: I need an altitude so I can provide winds aloft.

Me: I don't really need winds aloft.

Briefer <getting frustrated>: But it only takes a second. How about 3 & 6k
ft?

Me: I don't really need the information, but go ahead.

Briefer..... Blah, blah, blah at 3 and 6..

Briefer: Also, I need your destination...

And this continued for the next five minutes....

Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected over
that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the NE <10
knots. Have a nice day."

KB

[George Patterson]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
> Is there a way to escape this?

Well, you could move. I don't have that problem with the NJ briefers. In
addition, there's a recording I can listen to for conditions in the area. Most
times I don't need to talk to a briefer at all.

George Patterson
He who would distinguish what is true from what is false must have an
adequate understanding of truth and falsehood.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote:

> Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected over
> that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the NE <10
> knots. Have a nice day."

I've said something like "I'm just going to drill a big long hole in the sky,
but with possible landings at <insert list of airports>"

Of course, my airplane doesn't have a lot of speed so I wouldn't cover
a lot of area anyway.

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

[Jose]

> Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected over
> that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the NE <10
> knots. Have a nice day."

You could ask for an abbreviated briefing, and then ask for any other
details of interest (any TFRs? Are you sure? What about temporary
flight restrictions? :)

As for altitude, I would just state the altitudes I'm interested in
boring holes through (3 and 6, or 3, 6, and 9). The winds aloft are
sometimes nice to know and may help pick a direction.

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Steven Barnes]

I just ask for an area briefing for x mile radius from my home airport. 3k &
6k winds aloft are fine. Gimmie any TFRs, closed airports, closed runways,
etc. Of course, I can get that from DUATS, but I like a briefer telling me
about TFRs. Central IL.



"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> There are days (like today) where the idea is just to fly the airplane.
No
> specific destination, but if something looks interesting on the ground, or
> if I need a Diet Coke or feel the need to unload one, I may land at any of
a
> dozen nearby airfields... How do you explain this to a FSS briefer?
Here's
> the discussion I had with the FSS this morning (more or less):
>
> Me to the Briefer: Good Morning, I'll be flying N46KB an Experimental
RV-6
> today, VFR. Departing at 9:00 local, returning by 3:00 PM, Flying over
> North Georgia and East Alabama. Requesting Standard Briefing...
>
> Briefer: What is your destination and cruise altitude?
>
> Me: I don't really have either one. I'm just going flying.
>
> Briefer: I need an altitude so I can provide winds aloft.
>
> Me: I don't really need winds aloft.
>
> Briefer <getting frustrated>: But it only takes a second. How about 3 &
6k
> ft?
>
> Me: I don't really need the information, but go ahead.
>
> Briefer..... Blah, blah, blah at 3 and 6..
>
> Briefer: Also, I need your destination...
>
> And this continued for the next five minutes....
>
> Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected
over
> that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the NE
<10
> knots. Have a nice day."
>
> KB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[houstondan]

when i was in training, i would report "manouvers up to 30 miles west
of my ap at 3000ft, 2 hours etc"...went fine. i suppose i could have
said "within (gas range) and returning to same ap.
by the way, can you get flight forwarding just to go vfr sighseing
generally westish? at various altitudes in uncontroled space??

dan

[Blueskies]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Kyle Boatright wrote:
>>
<snip>
> there's a recording I can listen to for conditions in the area. Most
> times I don't need to talk to a briefer at all.
>
> George Patterson
> He who would distinguish what is true from what is false must have an
> adequate understanding of truth and falsehood.


Well, that is probably what we will all get with the 'privatized' FSS of the near future...

[Deborah McFarland]

Duats. I fly in the same space. It freaks them out when you call and say I
just want the TFRs...

It was too beautiful today!

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> There are days (like today) where the idea is just to fly the airplane.
> No specific destination, but if something looks interesting on the ground,
> or if I need a Diet Coke or feel the need to unload one, I may land at any
> of a dozen nearby airfields... How do you explain this to a FSS briefer?
> Here's the discussion I had with the FSS this morning (more or less):
>
> Me to the Briefer: Good Morning, I'll be flying N46KB an Experimental
> RV-6 today, VFR. Departing at 9:00 local, returning by 3:00 PM, Flying
> over North Georgia and East Alabama. Requesting Standard Briefing...
>
> Briefer: What is your destination and cruise altitude?
>
> Me: I don't really have either one. I'm just going flying.
>
> Briefer: I need an altitude so I can provide winds aloft.
>
> Me: I don't really need winds aloft.
>
> Briefer <getting frustrated>: But it only takes a second. How about 3 &
> 6k ft?
>
> Me: I don't really need the information, but go ahead.
>
> Briefer..... Blah, blah, blah at 3 and 6..
>
> Briefer: Also, I need your destination...
>
> And this continued for the next five minutes....
>
> Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected
> over that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the
> NE <10 knots. Have a nice day."
>
> KB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
m...
> I just ask for an area briefing for x mile radius from my home airport. 3k
&
> 6k winds aloft are fine. Gimmie any TFRs, closed airports, closed runways,
> etc. Of course, I can get that from DUATS, but I like a briefer telling me
> about TFRs. Central IL.

All we get after listening to the briefer for 5 minutes is "VFR not
recommended" even though visibility and ceiling are nearly unlimited.

[Peter Duniho]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected
> over that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the
> NE <10 knots. Have a nice day."

As Steven wrote, ask for an "area briefing". They'll want your point of
departure and radius for the briefing.

IMHO, you are wrong to say that you "don't really need winds aloft". Just
because you are aren't going on a cross-country, that doesn't mean that
information isn't useful. Even in the absence of airmets about wind shear
or turbulence, winds aloft will inform you about possibilities of both, and
they also provide information about movement of air masses, allowing you to
do a reality check on the forecast. You also get temperature information
with the winds aloft.

If you want someone to just tell you "VFR all day long, winds out of the
NE", tune in to the Weather Channel. There's a reason that aviation
briefings contain more detail than that. Ignore that detail at your own
peril. Ninety nine flights out of a hundred, it probably won't matter. But
that hundredth flight will be a real doozy.

Pete

[Slip'er]

Kyle,

You asked for something specific, "Standard Briefing" this means that the
person providing you weather information is required to give you certain
information. To then tell the briefer, "I don't care about that", "I don't
need that" doesn't sound very professional. You didn't ask for what you
really wanted. Think of this this way:

You call the briefer and ask for a "standard briefing" then say I don't need
this and that and the other thing when he asks questions needed to give you
what you just asked for. (not professional) So he shrugs and doesn't give
you the information. You take off and fly into a mess (even on a clear
day), your wings fall off and you crash. Where do you think that the law
suits will go? You asked for a standard briefing and didn't get all of
those elements... Okay, dumb story but there is a point in there somewhere.

As others have pointed out either, (1.) ask for an area forcast and give
them a block of altitudes that you suspect that you might play in or (2) ask
for an abrieviated forcast and list the things you want to hear.

Everybody is happy.

Carl

[BTIZ]

do it online at DUATS.. get an "area briefing".. and make sure you get the
notams for the airports you just might pop into... you would not be
surprised at the number of pilots that show up at airports that have been
closed for airshows.. or do not know a runway is closed by NOTAM.. or even
know the runway numbers... very unprofessional

BT

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> There are days (like today) where the idea is just to fly the airplane.
> No specific destination, but if something looks interesting on the ground,
> or if I need a Diet Coke or feel the need to unload one, I may land at any
> of a dozen nearby airfields... How do you explain this to a FSS briefer?
> Here's the discussion I had with the FSS this morning (more or less):
>
> Me to the Briefer: Good Morning, I'll be flying N46KB an Experimental
> RV-6 today, VFR. Departing at 9:00 local, returning by 3:00 PM, Flying
> over North Georgia and East Alabama. Requesting Standard Briefing...
>
> Briefer: What is your destination and cruise altitude?
>
> Me: I don't really have either one. I'm just going flying.
>
> Briefer: I need an altitude so I can provide winds aloft.
>
> Me: I don't really need winds aloft.
>
> Briefer <getting frustrated>: But it only takes a second. How about 3 &
> 6k ft?
>
> Me: I don't really need the information, but go ahead.
>
> Briefer..... Blah, blah, blah at 3 and 6..
>
> Briefer: Also, I need your destination...
>
> And this continued for the next five minutes....
>
> Is there a way to escape this? What I really needed was "VFR projected
> over that area all day long, No TFR's or Notams, surface winds out of the
> NE <10 knots. Have a nice day."
>
> KB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:37:16 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>There are days (like today) where the idea is just to fly the airplane. No
>specific destination, but if something looks interesting on the ground, or
>if I need a Diet Coke or feel the need to unload one, I may land at any of a
>dozen nearby airfields... How do you explain this to a FSS briefer? Here's
>the discussion I had with the FSS this morning (more or less):
>
>Me to the Briefer: Good Morning, I'll be flying N46KB an Experimental RV-6
>today, VFR. Departing at 9:00 local, returning by 3:00 PM, Flying over
>North Georgia and East Alabama. Requesting Standard Briefing...

Instead of asking for a "Standard Briefing", just ask for what you want.

"Standard Briefing" is a very specific request.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Colin W Kingsbury]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Kyle Boatright wrote:
> >>
> <snip>
> > there's a recording I can listen to for conditions in the area. Most
> > times I don't need to talk to a briefer at all.
> >
>
> Well, that is probably what we will all get with the 'privatized' FSS of
the near future...

Well considering that most human briefers are just reading things off a
screen, I don't see what the difference really is. Personally I'm looking
forward to potentially getting better automated access to information. If
this were a choice between hiring lots of local experts versus cheap
call-center service, sure, I'd prefer option #1. That's not the choice.

To me this is a lot like the airlines' transition towards passenger
self-service. You go up to the ticket counter, swipe your credit card, and
print your own ticket. Because twenty check-in kiosks cost less than five
people, they can put up a dozen kiosks and suddenly the lines move much
faster. OK, it stinks when you have a problem and need to talk to somebody,
but that's not how it usually works. I take probably 20-30 trips a year and
maybe a half-dozen of those I need something the computer can't give me. But
I spend a lot less time waiting on line on every flight, saving me dozens of
hours per year. Would I like to be able to walk up to a counter right away
and get help from a knowledgeable and friendly agent? Yes, but then I
wouldn't be flying from Boston to LA for $400 roundtrip. Overall this is an
improvement.

-cwk.

[jsmith]

That's why I use a travel agent. If I have a problem, I call them and
they take care of it. They have more resources and contacts than I do.
They have also taught me quite a few tricks to use at the point of
contact to get things done quickly and to my satisfaction.

Colin W Kingsbury wrote:
> To me this is a lot like the airlines' transition towards passenger
> self-service. You go up to the ticket counter, swipe your credit card, and
> print your own ticket. Because twenty check-in kiosks cost less than five
> people, they can put up a dozen kiosks and suddenly the lines move much
> faster. OK, it stinks when you have a problem and need to talk to somebody,
> but that's not how it usually works. I take probably 20-30 trips a year and
> maybe a half-dozen of those I need something the computer can't give me. But
> I spend a lot less time waiting on line on every flight, saving me dozens of
> hours per year. Would I like to be able to walk up to a counter right away
> and get help from a knowledgeable and friendly agent? Yes, but then I
> wouldn't be flying from Boston to LA for $400 roundtrip. Overall this is an
> improvement.

[Dave Butler]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> There are days (like today) where the idea is just to fly the airplane. No
> specific destination, but if something looks interesting on the ground, or
> if I need a Diet Coke or feel the need to unload one, I may land at any of a
> dozen nearby airfields... How do you explain this to a FSS briefer? Here's
> the discussion I had with the FSS this morning (more or less):
>
> Me to the Briefer: Good Morning, I'll be flying N46KB an Experimental RV-6
> today, VFR. Departing at 9:00 local, returning by 3:00 PM, Flying over
> North Georgia and East Alabama. Requesting Standard Briefing...

I think this may be where you went wrong, asking for a standard briefing. Just
ask for an "abbreviated briefing", and tell him what information you want.