Class III vs. Class II medical

[G. Sylvester]

I am going to take my medical on Tuesday. The price
for a Class II is the same for a Class III license. If I don't
renew my Class II within 6 month sor 12 months (?) it goes down
to a Class III. I don't plan on exercising the Class II but who knows,
maybe I'll get my Commerciial and CFI in the next year. I don't have
any plans for now but who knows. Actually I don't even think you
need a Class II to act as a CFI.

Any reason I should get a Class II or should not get a class III?
to me it sounds like get a Class II and at worst, it cost me an
extra 15 minutes.

Gerald Sylvester

[[email protected]]

If you don't need a class II, stay with a class III. If for some
reason you fail any part of the class II additional checks (I don't
know what they are off hand) you have failed a class III and will have
to appeal it to the FAA. that could cost you any future medicals.

[Jose]

> If for some
> reason you fail any part of the class II additional checks (I don't
> know what they are off hand) you have failed a class III and will have
> to appeal it to the FAA. that could cost you any future medicals.

That is news to me. I would go for the II and if I fail that accept
the III. Where do you see that failing a II fails a III?

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Bob Gardner]

The doc has to send the paperwork in to OKC, no matter what. So if the
applicant has put Class II at the top of the application and fails, that's
the way it goes to OKC. The doc does not have the option to start over. (I
am not a doctor and do not play one on TV.)

Bob Gardner

"Jose" > wrote in message
...
>> If for some
>> reason you fail any part of the class II additional checks (I don't
>> know what they are off hand) you have failed a class III and will have
>> to appeal it to the FAA. that could cost you any future medicals.
>
> That is news to me. I would go for the II and if I fail that accept the
> III. Where do you see that failing a II fails a III?
>
> Jose
> --
> Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Scott D.]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:43:00 GMT, "G. Sylvester"
> wrote:

>I am going to take my medical on Tuesday. The price
>for a Class II is the same for a Class III license. If I don't
>renew my Class II within 6 month sor 12 months (?) it goes down
>to a Class III. I don't plan on exercising the Class II but who knows,
>maybe I'll get my Commerciial and CFI in the next year. I don't have
>any plans for now but who knows. Actually I don't even think you
>need a Class II to act as a CFI.
>
>Any reason I should get a Class II or should not get a class III?
>to me it sounds like get a Class II and at worst, it cost me an
>extra 15 minutes.
>
>Gerald Sylvester


There really isnt a big difference in the Class II and a Class III
medical except for the term that it is good for if you are using the
Class II for a commercial purpose. There is a small vision requirment
but that is it. If you are an AOPA memeber, you can see a chart that
explains the difference's in all the medicals at:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/medical/part67std.html

If you are not a member, here is the difference:


Class I and II
Distant Vision: 20/20 in each eye, with or without correction

Class III
Distant Vision: 20/40 in each eye w/wo correction


Scott D

To email remove spamcatcher

[Colin W Kingsbury]

The literal differences between the classes are quite small, IIRC. Stepping
up to 2nd you only need to have vision correctable to 20/20 and 1st adds the
requirement for an EKG every so often after the age of 35. Besides that the
exams are theoretically identical.

However, in reality the examiner (and the people in OKC who review the
application) certainly have some leeway to decide whether an issue merits
further review or not. If you're 100% clean, no worries, get the higher
certificate. But if you will answer "yes" to any of those two dozen "Have
you ever..." questions, then I'd expect a 2C or 1C application to be
scrutinized much more closely. A private pilot who has chest pains and loses
it in IMC, they'd probably never even figure it out. But if a CFI has a
heart attack on a student's second flight might attract a little more
attention. AMEs like it when people pass, it helps keep the repeat business
up. Nobody I've heard of will overlook an obvious issue, but there's often
times when you can make a judgment call that X is or is not significant. I
have to think that the class medical being applied for has some influence on
how that call is made.

-cwk.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> If you don't need a class II, stay with a class III. If for some
> reason you fail any part of the class II additional checks (I don't
> know what they are off hand) you have failed a class III and will have
> to appeal it to the FAA. that could cost you any future medicals.
>

[jim rosinski]

wrote:

> If you don't need a class II, stay with a class III. If for some
> reason you fail any part of the class II additional checks (I don't
> know what they are off hand) you have failed a class III and will
> have to appeal it to the FAA. that could cost you any future
> medicals.

Are you sure about this? I recently failed part of the class II
additional checks (my eyes have zero depth perception) and had to ask
for a waiver. It was thankfully granted, but I assumed that my existing
class III medical was still valid while this was under review. That's
what the doc told me anyway.

Jim Rosinski

[Steve.T]

Uh, it isn't. In fact, I found out that your existing medical is *DEAD*
upon filling out the official form for a new medical. I found that out
when I had to report an irregular heart beat and had to do the Holter
monitor, Stress EKG and echo-cardiograph (they use a sonogram to
examine your heart to see if it has valve problems, etc.).

I had thought that my old Class III was still valid and was flying with
it. The senior AME that had to review all the records I took him
informed me that my old medical was dead the moment my pen hit the new
official form!

And because I had all the paperwork already done (thank you AOPA) and
was able to submit it to that Sr AME, he decided to issue the Class III
and make the FAA Medical people issue a cancellation -- because it is
only noticeable by me at rest!

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

ps. I just have an irregular heart beat. But now that I've gone through
all this, I should easily pass the Class I.

[Jonathan Sorger]

I would finish my instrument training before worrying about getting my
Commercial or CFI.

;)


In > G. Sylvester wrote:
> I am going to take my medical on Tuesday. The price
> for a Class II is the same for a Class III license. If I don't
> renew my Class II within 6 month sor 12 months (?) it goes down
> to a Class III. I don't plan on exercising the Class II but who knows,
> maybe I'll get my Commerciial and CFI in the next year. I don't have
> any plans for now but who knows. Actually I don't even think you
> need a Class II to act as a CFI.
>
> Any reason I should get a Class II or should not get a class III?
> to me it sounds like get a Class II and at worst, it cost me an
> extra 15 minutes.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>

[G. Sylvester]

I already started giving you some light lessons. Keep talking
and I'll have my CFII and then I can really start slapping
the hell out of you. As I said after my last lesson, I can't
wait for you to call me up crying after one of your lessons. ;-)

And BTW, no compliment about my +/-15 feet altitude on my approaches? :)



Gerald



Jonathan Sorger wrote:

> I would finish my instrument training before worrying about getting my
> Commercial or CFI.
>
> ;)
>
>
> In > G. Sylvester wrote:
>
>>I am going to take my medical on Tuesday. The price
>>for a Class II is the same for a Class III license. If I don't
>>renew my Class II within 6 month sor 12 months (?) it goes down
>>to a Class III. I don't plan on exercising the Class II but who knows,
>>maybe I'll get my Commerciial and CFI in the next year. I don't have
>>any plans for now but who knows. Actually I don't even think you
>>need a Class II to act as a CFI.
>>
>>Any reason I should get a Class II or should not get a class III?
>>to me it sounds like get a Class II and at worst, it cost me an
>>extra 15 minutes.
>>
>>Gerald Sylvester
>>

[Doug Vetter]

G. Sylvester wrote:
> Any reason I should get a Class II or should not get a class III?
> to me it sounds like get a Class II and at worst, it cost me an
> extra 15 minutes.

Gerald,

I have a congenital / functional heart murmur (actually the most mild
form recordable, but whatever). It was picked up by my AME (who used to
screen pilots for the military...surprise, surprise) during my first
medical evaluation 15 years ago, shortly after I started flying.

The FAA wanted an EKG to determine the severity of the murmur even
though I was only going for a Third Class. The Cardiologist who
performed the EKG ultimately said everything was fine, so right off the
bat I knew I could pass an EKG and the First Class medical. Good thing
I knew this, because my intention at that time was to fly
professionally. Had I continued with training and not been able to pass
anything beyond a Third Class, I would have wasted a lot of time and
money. For that reason, I recommend you go for the most stringent
medical you foresee needing in your aviation career and maintaining that
until you really need it.

FYI, I have a CFI and must maintain at least a Second Class, but have
continued to get First Class medicals because my AME has charged the
same amount for medicals not requiring an EKG and because I still have
this crazy notion that I may fly professionally after I pick up my ATP
this year (only 80 hours to go...wahoo!!). I turned 35 last year and
had to do an EKG for an extra $20, but I won't have to do another one
until I turn 40, which will be NEVER, of course. :-) So, until you
turn 40, there should be no significant cost differences between the
various medical classes.

As far as failing a medical goes, if your AME is reasonable he'll submit
paperwork for the highest class of medical you can pass, rather than
submitting paperwork he knows will result in a rejection. It's bad
business and doesn't help you when / if you choose to go for waivers.
If I ever find myself in that situation, I'm sure having a long history
of First Class medicals won't hurt me, either.

Oh, and if you're wondering what doctors can diagnose using an EKG,
check this out. Pretty interesting stuff.

http://www.ecglibrary.com/ecghome.html

Hope this helps,

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[[email protected]]

No, it isn't 'dead'. I went through this exact problem this last year,
when my application for a renewed Class II medical had to be sent over
to OK City, due to a medication I was taking. I still had 2 years
remaining on the 'Class III' component of my medical. I talked to the
AOPA, and they said they have case law as well as an FAA opinion
supporting the contention that the Class III component remains viable;
the AME concurred, as did one of the most experienced DEs in the
country, with whom I took my CFI checkride while the medical was under
review. In fact *he* had a nearly identical experience before, and said
he had talked to the regional Flight Surgeon, who concurred that the
remaining component was valid.

Look on your medical certificate itself. On the back, it states

"Unless reversed or otherwise limited in duration, this certificate, in
accordance with 61.23 (14 CFR part 61) becomes valid for the time
limits specific below."

There is a huge difference betewwn a 'denial' and a 'deferral'. 99% of
the time when an AME punts up the chain, he defers the decision. He
does not physically take your medical certificate away. He does not
'deny' you a certificate. He does not 'reverse' it. The FAA does not
send you a registered letter indicating the suspension or reversal of
the certificate. If it isn't in the FARs (it isn't), and it isn't on
the medical (it isn't), and it isn't on anything you sign or agree to,
how on earth could the FAA make a case that the remaining component was
invalid? Where is the regulatory basis for that assertion?

Please find me *any* 'black letter' documentation in Part 67 or part 61
of the FARs that supports the notion that as soon as you apply for a
new medical, your old one becomes invalid. You won't, because it
doesn't exist.

I think your AME told you wrong.

Cheers,

Cap



Steve.T wrote:
> Uh, it isn't. In fact, I found out that your existing medical is
*DEAD*
> upon filling out the official form for a new medical. I found that
out
> when I had to report an irregular heart beat and had to do the Holter
> monitor, Stress EKG and echo-cardiograph (they use a sonogram to
> examine your heart to see if it has valve problems, etc.).
>
> I had thought that my old Class III was still valid and was flying
with
> it. The senior AME that had to review all the records I took him
> informed me that my old medical was dead the moment my pen hit the
new
> official form!
>
> And because I had all the paperwork already done (thank you AOPA) and
> was able to submit it to that Sr AME, he decided to issue the Class
III
> and make the FAA Medical people issue a cancellation -- because it is
> only noticeable by me at rest!
>
> Later,
> Steve.T
> PP ASEL/Instrument
>
> ps. I just have an irregular heart beat. But now that I've gone
through
> all this, I should easily pass the Class I.