Operations near border

[Slip'er]

Where do the FARs address operations near the border? I do not plan to
cross the border, but I vaguely remember a note on a chart that said to
contact FSS if operating in the vicinity of the border. I'd like to know
the exact regulatory reference...

Thanks,
Carl

[Peter Duniho]

"Slip'er" > wrote in message
news:QjAOd.30246$xt.25669@fed1read07...
> Where do the FARs address operations near the border?

The FARs have no special requirements for operations within the US near an
international border (I assume that's the kind of border you're talking
about). Maybe you're talking about flight within an ADIZ? *Some* of the
border is bounded by that type of airspace, and there is a flight-plan
requirement for flight there.

Pete

[[email protected]]

Not a regulation but an advisory found in the AIM. If you cross the
border in error you may find yourself being accompanied by an armed
aircraft and forced to land someplace not of your own choosing!
Ol S&B

[William W. Plummer]

wrote:

> Not a regulation but an advisory found in the AIM. If you cross the
> border in error you may find yourself being accompanied by an armed
> aircraft and forced to land someplace not of your own choosing!
> Ol S&B
>
AND, you might receive a bill for that service. F-16's cost about
$7000/hr to operate.

[Matt Barrow]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Not a regulation but an advisory found in the AIM. If you cross the
> border in error you may find yourself being accompanied by an armed
> aircraft and forced to land someplace not of your own choosing!

Such as California?

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:14:28 -0800, "Slip'er" > wrote:

>Where do the FARs address operations near the border? I do not plan to
>cross the border, but I vaguely remember a note on a chart that said to
>contact FSS if operating in the vicinity of the border. I'd like to know
>the exact regulatory reference...
>
>Thanks,
>Carl
>

Which border?

I live on the US-Canadian border and don't do anything in particular unless
I will be landing in Canada. Other borders might not be so lax.

However, shortly after 9-11, I was doing a flight for some friends so they
could do some aerial photography. We were right on the border and, at the
altitude, not able to communicate with ATC. I did ask FSS to notify them
prior to this operation, but it was no big deal.

I've not done so since, though.

And one of our local airport approaches is partially in Canadian airspace.

I would imagine that the rules are very different operating along the
southern US border.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Marty]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Slip'er" > wrote in message
> news:QjAOd.30246$xt.25669@fed1read07...
>> Where do the FARs address operations near the border?
>
> The FARs have no special requirements for operations within the US near an
> international border (I assume that's the kind of border you're talking
> about). Maybe you're talking about flight within an ADIZ? *Some* of the
> border is bounded by that type of airspace, and there is a flight-plan
> requirement for flight there.
>
> Pete
>
And IIRC, you have to have the BIG numbers displayed on the aircraft, the
watercraft size doesn't cut it.
Marty

[Bob Fry]

"Matt Barrow" > writes:

> > and forced to land someplace not of your own choosing!
>
> Such as California?

Probably Texas.

[Slip'er]

I was referring to the US-Mexico border. I pulled out an old chart to
refresh my memory. The note I was thinking about says, "report to FAA radio
prior to entering ADIZ." The chart uses a pretty wide stripe to indicate
the ADIZ. Some airports are even within the ADIZ line. So, if I am going
to be flying along the border looking at the fence, is it a good idea to
contact FAA radio? And, what is FAA radio?

Carl

[Peter Duniho]

"Slip'er" > wrote in message
news:qqWOd.30430$xt.10676@fed1read07...
> [...] So, if I am going
> to be flying along the border looking at the fence, is it a good idea to
> contact FAA radio? And, what is FAA radio?

If you are flying within the ADIZ, you need to comply with the requirements
of that airspace. If you are not, then you don't.

Pete

[Robert M. Gary]

You are required to be on an open flight plan if you cross the border
between US and Canada

[Robert M. Gary]

No regulatory requirement. There is no requirement to do anything just
because you are flying "near" the border, even if its an ADIZ. Those of
us in California fly "near" the ADIZ with Mexico on a regular bases.
When you are on downwind for Brown field you are less than a mile from
Tijuana airport (actually from the air they look like two runways for
the same airport). I have heard of pilot who flew their downwind a bit
too far out and crossed the border.

I'm actually going back down to Mexico the weekend after next. Crossing
into Mexico is very simple and easy. Almost as easy as crossing into
Canada.

-Robert

[Dan Girellini]

"Robert M. Gary" > writes:

> No regulatory requirement. There is no requirement to do anything just
> because you are flying "near" the border, even if its an ADIZ. Those of
> us in California fly "near" the ADIZ with Mexico on a regular bases.
> When you are on downwind for Brown field you are less than a mile from
> Tijuana airport (actually from the air they look like two runways for
> the same airport). I have heard of pilot who flew their downwind a bit
> too far out and crossed the border.

Were there any consequences?

With the fields as clsoe as you say it seems surprising that you've only heard
of one incident. Do they do flight training at Brown?

Dan.

[Matt Barrow]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
> "Matt Barrow" > writes:
>
> > > and forced to land someplace not of your own choosing!
> >
> > Such as California?
>
> Probably Texas.

[Matt Barrow]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
> "Matt Barrow" > writes:
>
> > > and forced to land someplace not of your own choosing!
> >
> > Such as California?
>
> Probably Texas.

Texas wouldn't have you, but the fruits and nuts in California...


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Robert M. Gary]

Yep, lots of flight training. I've only heard of one, but I live in
NorCal so I only hear what I see on the news. They showed an Army helo
follow the guy home. When approaced the pilot said he didn't realize he
entered Mexican airspace.

Actually, to be 100% correct, no one, no where cares if you enter
Mexican airspace. They want you to file a filght plan but there is no
procedure in place for the Mexicans to track, watch, or anything flight
plans. When you get trouble is when you cross back into the U.S.
without proper notice!! :)

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

BTW: Here is the perm NOTAM for brown field...

- CAUTION: ARPT BDRY ONE MILE NORTH FM MEXICAN/USA INTL BORDER.

[Allen]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> BTW: Here is the perm NOTAM for brown field...
>
> - CAUTION: ARPT BDRY ONE MILE NORTH FM MEXICAN/USA INTL BORDER.

Check out the GPS RWY 4 approach into El Paso, TX, KELP. The IAF and FAF
are in Mexico. The LOC/DME RWY 4 is the same way.

Allen

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 11 Feb 2005 07:29:27 -0800, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

>You are required to be on an open flight plan if you cross the border
>between US and Canada

That's true. And I do that if I'm going someplace. But this particular
time was just a local flight along the border, and there's no radio contact
with ATC or FSS at the altitudes I was using; so I called and coordinated
all that with the FSS and they coordinated with ATC.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Matt Barrow]

"Allen" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > BTW: Here is the perm NOTAM for brown field...
> >
> > - CAUTION: ARPT BDRY ONE MILE NORTH FM MEXICAN/USA INTL BORDER.
>
> Check out the GPS RWY 4 approach into El Paso, TX, KELP. The IAF and FAF
> are in Mexico. The LOC/DME RWY 4 is the same way.
>

Same thing for Niagara Falls RNAV(GPS) approach for 10L. The IAF's and the
FAF are in Canada.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Brian Burger]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Matt Barrow wrote:

>
> "Allen" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> > ps.com...
> > > BTW: Here is the perm NOTAM for brown field...
> > >
> > > - CAUTION: ARPT BDRY ONE MILE NORTH FM MEXICAN/USA INTL BORDER.
> >
> > Check out the GPS RWY 4 approach into El Paso, TX, KELP. The IAF and FAF
> > are in Mexico. The LOC/DME RWY 4 is the same way.
> >
>
> Same thing for Niagara Falls RNAV(GPS) approach for 10L. The IAF's and the
> FAF are in Canada.

A/c on approaches to Bellingham, WA are talking to Victoria (BC) Terminal
on approach.

That whole area of Washington state is controlled by Canadian ATC above
2500 or so. Flying from Victoria (CYYJ) to Bellingham, the only Americans
I talk to are Bellingham tower & ground - Victoria Terminal controls the
higher airspace.

I gather the reverse is true for some areas of southern Ontario - Niagara
Falls, as mentioned, and around Detroit/Windsor area.

Brian
PP-ASEL/Night
www.warbard.ca/avgas/