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View Full Version : Re: GPS Question: What to buy


Andrew Gideon
August 20th 03, 09:34 PM
Mark Astley wrote:

> Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
> thoughts...The problem with the Garmin is that it ONLY does GPS. However,
> the weather this year has started me thinking about in-cockpit weather
> updates. If I'd purchased control visions AnywhereMap
> (www.controlvision.com), I'd have an upgrade path to the AnywhereWX
> product. As it stands now, I'm looking at having to either sell off the
> 196 and buy AnywhereMap (runs on a PDA), or buy both and have more GPS
> than I really
> need. Just something to consider...

I've been "considering"...and it's daunting. I'd love opinions from those
that have used them on how the Anywhere compares *as a GPS* to the 196. I
did find:

http://www.anywheremap.com/pdfs/garmin_compare.pdf

but I'd hardly consider that unbiased. I mean, I'm sure it's honest. But
it's easy for them to leave off the aspects where the Garmin would reign.

Plus, I've the general fear of anything running on an MSFT environment
today. Given the news about a power plant infected by the slammer worm,
and some airline that had to do check-ins by hand because another worm took
our their computers, stability and reliability has to be a concern for
something built over Microsoft-CE or whatever those iPAQs are running.

Still, the Anywhere looks like such a nice product.

So...anyone tried both?

- Andrew

Tom Hyslip
August 21st 03, 02:12 AM
Andrew Gideon > wrote in message >...
> Mark Astley wrote:
>
> > Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
> > thoughts...The problem with the Garmin is that it ONLY does GPS. However,
> > the weather this year has started me thinking about in-cockpit weather
> > updates. If I'd purchased control visions AnywhereMap
> > (www.controlvision.com), I'd have an upgrade path to the AnywhereWX
> > product. As it stands now, I'm looking at having to either sell off the
> > 196 and buy AnywhereMap (runs on a PDA), or buy both and have more GPS
> > than I really
> > need. Just something to consider...
>
> I've been "considering"...and it's daunting. I'd love opinions from those
> that have used them on how the Anywhere compares *as a GPS* to the 196. I
> did find:
>
> http://www.anywheremap.com/pdfs/garmin_compare.pdf
>
> but I'd hardly consider that unbiased. I mean, I'm sure it's honest. But
> it's easy for them to leave off the aspects where the Garmin would reign.
>
> Plus, I've the general fear of anything running on an MSFT environment
> today. Given the news about a power plant infected by the slammer worm,
> and some airline that had to do check-ins by hand because another worm took
> our their computers, stability and reliability has to be a concern for
> something built over Microsoft-CE or whatever those iPAQs are running.
>
> Still, the Anywhere looks like such a nice product.
>
> So...anyone tried both?
>
> - Andrew


If you already have a PDA, such as an IPaq, I would recommend
www.pocketfms.com. It is free moving map GPS for a computer or PDA
with a GPS connection. You can get any GPS you want and connect it
to the PDA, or get one specifically made to connect to the PDA like a
Compact Flash GPS. I have been trying out pocketfms and it works
great, does all the things the Garmin Units do, and its free. Plus the
downloads / updates are free, and it also downloads weather
information prior to a flight if you chose.

Good luck
Tom

Dave Butler
August 21st 03, 02:04 PM
Ted Lindgreen wrote:

> The 196 is a great GPS, but it has two "features", that, had I
> know it before, would have caused me to never have bought it.
>
> 1. Lock-to-Road.
> The 196 is a combined aviation/automotive/marine GPS.
> For road-usage Garmin build in a feature, "Lock-to-Road",
> to coverup both map- and GPS errors. As some maps are
> pretty bad, and it seems to try to "fix" pre-SA GPS errors,
> this can offset your actual position by hundreds of feet.
> I have observed my 196 a few times to kick into "Lock-to-Road"
> mode when flying above a road. Needless to say that whatever the
> instrument then tells you is complete bogus, especially the HSI
> is "fun" to watch.....
> You will ask: "why the heck don't you disable this??".
> The problem is that the 196 automagically enables again it all
> the time as side-effect of other settings. There is no way to
> set it to off and keep it off (this is confirmed by Garmin).
> The only work-around I found sofar is it to religiously check
> and reset it every time I at startup and then not touch power,
> mode, settings, etc., anymore.

I've not had my 196 for as long as you've had yours, but I've never observed
this behavior. I'll look for it, though. My observation would have been that
lock-to-road is in effect in land-mode, but not in aviation mode. I wonder
whether we have different software versions. I'm on 2.7 (from memory). I think
3.0 is available but I haven't downloaded it.

Go to http://www.garmin.com and put in "lock to road" in the search field and it
lists several software changes that have been made in that feature.

>
> 2. Dead-Reckoning.
> Whenever the 196 looses the satellites (which does happen
> now and then near certain airports and/or with certain radio
> settings), it does not tell you. Instead, it covers up this
> fact and just extrapolates whatever your course was for no
> less than 30 seconds. You can set an alarm on "accuracy",
> but also this alarm is delayed by 30 seconds. So, if you
> loose the satellites, only after 30 seconds you find out
> that the information the 196 was giving you was bogus.
>

I have seen this behavior. My old Garmin 90 worked the same way. It's not a
problem for me.

Remove "SHIRT" to reply directly.

Dennis O'Connor
August 21st 03, 03:21 PM
Interesting...
I have to note parenthetically that I have both the 195 and 196 in the
cockpit... That I fly all over the eastern USA with these units, and
sometimes in really nasty weather where they are invaluable, and rarely have
I noted a degraded EPE, and it was both units the few times it has
happened - which was maybe three times over a number of years... I do use
windshield mounted antennas, not the stub antennas... I also have never
noticed any deviation between what the 196 is calling my position and what
the localizer/DME is showing on an instrument approach, and I use the GPS on
all instrument approaches as a backup to the primary nav... YMMV

Denny
> >
> >> Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
> >> thoughts... ...

TripFarmer
August 25th 03, 03:56 PM
For $500 this looks like a decent GPS. I've always been a Garmin owner and was
considering a 196 but the "Lock to Road" feature turns me off. The PDA based
GPS systems look ok, too.

Anyone near Birmingham, Alabama using one of these systems (Airmap 500 or
PDAs)?


Trip



In article >, says...
>
>Interesting...
>I have to note parenthetically that I have both the 195 and 196 in the
>cockpit... That I fly all over the eastern USA with these units, and
>sometimes in really nasty weather where they are invaluable, and rarely have
>I noted a degraded EPE, and it was both units the few times it has
>happened - which was maybe three times over a number of years... I do use
>windshield mounted antennas, not the stub antennas... I also have never
>noticed any deviation between what the 196 is calling my position and what
>the localizer/DME is showing on an instrument approach, and I use the GPS on
>all instrument approaches as a backup to the primary nav... YMMV
>
>Denny
>> >
>> >> Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
>> >> thoughts... ...
>
>

Wayne
August 26th 03, 11:21 AM
The "lock to roads feature " can be turned on or off and remembers your
preference in each mode (Aviation, Land, Water). The 196 is an awesome unit.
Wayne


"TripFarmer" > wrote in message
...
> For $500 this looks like a decent GPS. I've always been a Garmin owner
and was
> considering a 196 but the "Lock to Road" feature turns me off. The PDA
based
> GPS systems look ok, too.

Ted Lindgreen
August 26th 03, 01:07 PM
In article >,
Wayne > wrote:
>The "lock to roads feature " can be turned on or off and remembers your
>preference in each mode (Aviation, Land, Water). The 196 is an awesome unit.

Sorry, but this is only partly true:

The "lock to roads feature" can be turned on or off, but it does
NOT remember the "off" preference: in land mode it gets turn on
automatically as a side-effect of a mode change, a "go to", a route
selection, and many other key-press-seqences which seem unrelated
to this "feature" (like merily switching it on and off). In aviation
mode I have observed it to be turned on for no obvious reason
several times. In marine mode I've not yet seen it turned on, but
I hardly ever use it in this mode, so I don't know how it behaves
here..

I agree that it is a great unit, but having to check (and sometimes
reset) "lock to road" in aviation mode every time after switch-on
is silly. Actually I think it's silly that "lock to road" is present
(and can be silently working!) in aviation and water mode.

-- ted

Dave Butler
August 26th 03, 02:15 PM
Ted Lindgreen wrote:
> In article >,
> Wayne > wrote:
>
>>The "lock to roads feature " can be turned on or off and remembers your
>>preference in each mode (Aviation, Land, Water). The 196 is an awesome unit.
>
>
> Sorry, but this is only partly true:
>
> The "lock to roads feature" can be turned on or off, but it does
> NOT remember the "off" preference: in land mode it gets turn on
> automatically as a side-effect of a mode change, a "go to", a route
> selection, and many other key-press-seqences which seem unrelated
> to this "feature" (like merily switching it on and off). In aviation
> mode I have observed it to be turned on for no obvious reason
> several times. In marine mode I've not yet seen it turned on, but
> I hardly ever use it in this mode, so I don't know how it behaves
> here..
>
> I agree that it is a great unit, but having to check (and sometimes
> reset) "lock to road" in aviation mode every time after switch-on
> is silly. Actually I think it's silly that "lock to road" is present
> (and can be silently working!) in aviation and water mode.
>

Yours seems to be the only unit with that problem. Maybe you ought to send your
unit in to Garmin and tell them to fix it.

Jeremy Lew
August 26th 03, 03:57 PM
What kind of flying are you doing that it matters if you lose your track for
30 seconds without knowing it? The only context I can imagine this making a
difference for is an IFR approach, which you shouldn't be using this for
anyway.

"Ted Lindgreen" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Andrew Gideon > wrote:
> >Mark Astley wrote:
> >
> >> Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
> >> thoughts... ...
> ....
> >Still, the Anywhere looks like such a nice product.
> >
> >So...anyone tried both?
>
> I've only experience with the 196, which I own over a year and have
> used extensively, but that might help you also in your decision.
> At least it may focus you on some things that the sales-bla does
> not tell you.
>
> The 196 is a great GPS, but it has two "features", that, had I
> know it before, would have caused me to never have bought it.
>
> 1. Lock-to-Road.
> The 196 is a combined aviation/automotive/marine GPS.
> For road-usage Garmin build in a feature, "Lock-to-Road",
> to coverup both map- and GPS errors. As some maps are
> pretty bad, and it seems to try to "fix" pre-SA GPS errors,
> this can offset your actual position by hundreds of feet.
> I have observed my 196 a few times to kick into "Lock-to-Road"
> mode when flying above a road. Needless to say that whatever the
> instrument then tells you is complete bogus, especially the HSI
> is "fun" to watch.....
> You will ask: "why the heck don't you disable this??".
> The problem is that the 196 automagically enables again it all
> the time as side-effect of other settings. There is no way to
> set it to off and keep it off (this is confirmed by Garmin).
> The only work-around I found sofar is it to religiously check
> and reset it every time I at startup and then not touch power,
> mode, settings, etc., anymore.
>
> 2. Dead-Reckoning.
> Whenever the 196 looses the satellites (which does happen
> now and then near certain airports and/or with certain radio
> settings), it does not tell you. Instead, it covers up this
> fact and just extrapolates whatever your course was for no
> less than 30 seconds. You can set an alarm on "accuracy",
> but also this alarm is delayed by 30 seconds. So, if you
> loose the satellites, only after 30 seconds you find out
> that the information the 196 was giving you was bogus.
>
> I have had several e-mail exchanges with Garmin about this.
> Although I always got promptly very (overly) polite answers
> (Thank you bla bla.., etc.), when you skip the politeness,
> the answer is: "yes, this is how the 196 works, and no, we
> have no intention to change it".
>
> What I want from a GPS, in fact from every aviation instrument, is
> that as soon as it knows there something wrong, it raises a flag,
> and not to deliberately, and silently, cover it up by "fixing" the
> position, or extrapolating the past.
>
> I'm very interested to hear how Anywhere behaves in this respect,
> and may trade my 196 in for it when it behaves better.
>
> Regards,
> -- ted

jfee
August 27th 03, 02:56 AM
Dennis, I'm curious to know how you like the 196 vs 195. I have a 195 and
swear by it! I was looking at the 196, but not sure what features it has
to justify 'trading up' (aviation usage only. Dont' care about ground / auto
usage). I'd appreciate your comments.

-Jonathan

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> Interesting...
> I have to note parenthetically that I have both the 195 and 196 in the
> cockpit... That I fly all over the eastern USA with these units, and
> sometimes in really nasty weather where they are invaluable, and rarely
have
> I noted a degraded EPE, and it was both units the few times it has
> happened - which was maybe three times over a number of years... I do use
> windshield mounted antennas, not the stub antennas... I also have never
> noticed any deviation between what the 196 is calling my position and what
> the localizer/DME is showing on an instrument approach, and I use the GPS
on
> all instrument approaches as a backup to the primary nav... YMMV
>
> Denny
> > >
> > >> Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
> > >> thoughts... ...
>
>

Justin Case
August 27th 03, 01:20 PM
I totally agree, but they always stated it was a liability issue to
show the terrain and obstructions. Let's hope that they do not do
away with it now that they own UPSAT. Keep your fingers crossed.

What we may see is the UPSAT brand name on all of the aviation items.
Garmin has been wanting out of aviation for a while and now that
Gary's gone, maybe Min will be able to do what he pleases. Also, you
must agree that there's more money in the masses. GPS for personal
use, autos, boats vehicle tracking, etc.

On 26 Aug 2003 20:13:24 -0700, Bob Fry > wrote:

>Until Garmin starts offering terrain and obstacle data, why get their
>units?

Dennis O'Connor
August 27th 03, 03:36 PM
Well worth the upgrade... I would do it again in a heartbeat (until
something better comes along!!!) It has lots more stuff in the database...
And lots of bells and whistles that I don't use but someone else might...
If feasible, keep the 195 for the other yoke...
If someone's cash flow is really tight, then stick with a used/trade-in
195... It's the next best thing to a 196 in a portable...

A few weeks back the 195 on the copilot yoke was very handy when we got
snookered between two lines of CB going up to 60,000+ feet, out over Lake
Erie near Cleveland (ahh, those lovely Great Lakes weather machines, and
don't believe everything the nice man at atc tells you)... I was busy
flying in turbulence and rain and looking for the GulfstreamV that I was to
tuck in behind on final, and the copilot (it was really nice that there was
one) was able to call the intersections and the turn onto final with the 195
on his yoke allowing me to keep eyes out of the cockpit.. Made it almost a
routine landing on a crosswind runway with wind at 24 gusting to 34...

Denny
"jfee" > wrote in message
news:7dU2b.206705$Oz4.54769@rwcrnsc54...
> Dennis, I'm curious to know how you like the 196 vs 195. I have a 195
and
> swear by it! I was looking at the 196, but not sure what features it has
> to justify 'trading up' (aviation usage only. Dont' care about ground /
auto
> usage). I'd appreciate your comments.
>
> -Jonathan
>
> "Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Interesting...
> > I have to note parenthetically that I have both the 195 and 196 in the
> > cockpit... That I fly all over the eastern USA with these units, and
> > sometimes in really nasty weather where they are invaluable, and rarely
> have
> > I noted a degraded EPE, and it was both units the few times it has
> > happened - which was maybe three times over a number of years... I do
use
> > windshield mounted antennas, not the stub antennas... I also have never
> > noticed any deviation between what the 196 is calling my position and
what
> > the localizer/DME is showing on an instrument approach, and I use the
GPS
> on
> > all instrument approaches as a backup to the primary nav... YMMV
> >
> > Denny
> > > >
> > > >> Although the 196 is great, I've recently started to have second
> > > >> thoughts... ...
> >
> >
>
>

TripFarmer
August 27th 03, 09:03 PM
Here is Garmin's reply to the "Lock to Road" feature..........

"In land mode it won't remember the 'off' setting, but the default aviation
setting is 'off' and it will stay off until changed manually. If they are
experiencing something different, their units should be updated with current
operating software and potentially need to be reset. The 196 will not
autoroute in aviation mode, and autorouting is the reason for 'lock to road'.
There should never be a reason that it should turn that feature on in aviation
mode unless you actually go to the proper menu and turn in on manually.

Best Regards,

Andrew Haaven
Aviation Support Specialist
800-800-1020





In article >, says...
>
> I haven't had that problem. I did have it on lock to roads whe I first
>got it and it was annoying in that is would kind of jerk the little plane
>sideways (changing the picture of where the plane was heading). I turned it
>off and have not had the problem again.
>
> I don't know about yours, but mine does definately remember the
>preference of lock to roads when changing modes. I don't see why yours would
>be different. Maybe you are remembering an older software release.
>
> Even if it does go back to lock to roads, I don't see the big deal. i
>would expect them to fix it, but it wouldn't really bother me for
>navigation. I use the other screen with the bank indicator when doing
>approaches and such.
>
>Wayne
>
>"Ted Lindgreen" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> Wayne > wrote:
>> >The "lock to roads feature " can be turned on or off and remembers your
>> >preference in each mode (Aviation, Land, Water). The 196 is an awesome
>unit.
>>
>> Sorry, but this is only partly true:
>>
>> The "lock to roads feature" can be turned on or off, but it does
>> NOT remember the "off" preference: in land mode it gets turn on
>> automatically as a side-effect of a mode change, a "go to", a route
>> selection, and many other key-press-seqences which seem unrelated
>> to this "feature" (like merily switching it on and off). In aviation
>> mode I have observed it to be turned on for no obvious reason
>> several times. In marine mode I've not yet seen it turned on, but
>> I hardly ever use it in this mode, so I don't know how it behaves
>> here..
>>
>> I agree that it is a great unit, but having to check (and sometimes
>> reset) "lock to road" in aviation mode every time after switch-on
>> is silly. Actually I think it's silly that "lock to road" is present
>> (and can be silently working!) in aviation and water mode.
>>
>> -- ted
>
>

Jerry Bransford
September 21st 03, 06:31 AM
I have my Garmin GPS 90 with an outdated aviation database for sale... of
course the airports don't move so as long as it's for VFR flight, it's fine.
I don't NEED to sell it but if I received a good offer, I would. Contact me
at if you are seriously interested. Of course you can
update the database through Garmin. :)

Garmin says this at http://www.garmin.com/products/gps90/

"The GPS 90 became the best-selling aviation handheld by offering pilots
powerful navigation features and tremendous value all in the smallest GPS
package you can buy. Add in a crisp, backlit LCD display, an easy to use
operating system and up to 20 hours of use on just four AA batteries, and
it's no wonder the GPS 90 is the preferred choice of pilots around the
world.
The GPS 90 features a full Jeppesen® database complete with runway diagrams,
airport frequencies and airport services and altitude sensitive, sectorized
Class B and C airspace alerts. All on a 2.2 x 1.5 display that offers
superior readability, even in direct sunlight. And it's easily accessible
through a few simple keystrokes. The GPS 90's moving map display keeps track
of your every move, along with nearby airports, navaids and waypoints. With
continuous track, bearing, distance and ground speed data on screen, you can
use the moving map to navigate right to your destination.

But the power of the GPS 90 doesn't stop there. The navigation page provides
steering guidance to your destination, complete with VNAV, ETE and
crosstrack data. Top it off with a full complement of standard accessories
like a universal yoke mount, power cable and antenna mount, and you've got
the handheld GPS pilots just can't get enough of-the Garmin® GPS 90."

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
> Ted Lindgreen wrote:
>
> > The 196 is a great GPS, but it has two "features", that, had I
> > know it before, would have caused me to never have bought it.
> >
> > 1. Lock-to-Road.
> > The 196 is a combined aviation/automotive/marine GPS.
> > For road-usage Garmin build in a feature, "Lock-to-Road",
> > to coverup both map- and GPS errors. As some maps are
> > pretty bad, and it seems to try to "fix" pre-SA GPS errors,
> > this can offset your actual position by hundreds of feet.
> > I have observed my 196 a few times to kick into "Lock-to-Road"
> > mode when flying above a road. Needless to say that whatever the
> > instrument then tells you is complete bogus, especially the HSI
> > is "fun" to watch.....
> > You will ask: "why the heck don't you disable this??".
> > The problem is that the 196 automagically enables again it all
> > the time as side-effect of other settings. There is no way to
> > set it to off and keep it off (this is confirmed by Garmin).
> > The only work-around I found sofar is it to religiously check
> > and reset it every time I at startup and then not touch power,
> > mode, settings, etc., anymore.
>
> I've not had my 196 for as long as you've had yours, but I've never
observed
> this behavior. I'll look for it, though. My observation would have been
that
> lock-to-road is in effect in land-mode, but not in aviation mode. I wonder
> whether we have different software versions. I'm on 2.7 (from memory). I
think
> 3.0 is available but I haven't downloaded it.
>
> Go to http://www.garmin.com and put in "lock to road" in the search field
and it
> lists several software changes that have been made in that feature.
>
> >
> > 2. Dead-Reckoning.
> > Whenever the 196 looses the satellites (which does happen
> > now and then near certain airports and/or with certain radio
> > settings), it does not tell you. Instead, it covers up this
> > fact and just extrapolates whatever your course was for no
> > less than 30 seconds. You can set an alarm on "accuracy",
> > but also this alarm is delayed by 30 seconds. So, if you
> > loose the satellites, only after 30 seconds you find out
> > that the information the 196 was giving you was bogus.
> >
>
> I have seen this behavior. My old Garmin 90 worked the same way. It's not
a
> problem for me.
>
> Remove "SHIRT" to reply directly.
>

Cecil E. Chapman
September 21st 03, 11:17 AM
Try ebay motors under pilot gear....

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com
"Jerry Bransford" > wrote in message
news:bJabb.4097$gv5.3842@fed1read05...
> I have my Garmin GPS 90 with an outdated aviation database for sale... of
> course the airports don't move so as long as it's for VFR flight, it's
fine.
> I don't NEED to sell it but if I received a good offer, I would. Contact
me
> at if you are seriously interested. Of course you can
> update the database through Garmin. :)
>
> Garmin says this at http://www.garmin.com/products/gps90/
>
> "The GPS 90 became the best-selling aviation handheld by offering pilots
> powerful navigation features and tremendous value all in the smallest GPS
> package you can buy. Add in a crisp, backlit LCD display, an easy to use
> operating system and up to 20 hours of use on just four AA batteries, and
> it's no wonder the GPS 90 is the preferred choice of pilots around the
> world.
> The GPS 90 features a full Jeppesen® database complete with runway
diagrams,
> airport frequencies and airport services and altitude sensitive,
sectorized
> Class B and C airspace alerts. All on a 2.2 x 1.5 display that offers
> superior readability, even in direct sunlight. And it's easily accessible
> through a few simple keystrokes. The GPS 90's moving map display keeps
track
> of your every move, along with nearby airports, navaids and waypoints.
With
> continuous track, bearing, distance and ground speed data on screen, you
can
> use the moving map to navigate right to your destination.
>
> But the power of the GPS 90 doesn't stop there. The navigation page
provides
> steering guidance to your destination, complete with VNAV, ETE and
> crosstrack data. Top it off with a full complement of standard accessories
> like a universal yoke mount, power cable and antenna mount, and you've got
> the handheld GPS pilots just can't get enough of-the Garmin® GPS 90."
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ted Lindgreen wrote:
> >
> > > The 196 is a great GPS, but it has two "features", that, had I
> > > know it before, would have caused me to never have bought it.
> > >
> > > 1. Lock-to-Road.
> > > The 196 is a combined aviation/automotive/marine GPS.
> > > For road-usage Garmin build in a feature, "Lock-to-Road",
> > > to coverup both map- and GPS errors. As some maps are
> > > pretty bad, and it seems to try to "fix" pre-SA GPS errors,
> > > this can offset your actual position by hundreds of feet.
> > > I have observed my 196 a few times to kick into "Lock-to-Road"
> > > mode when flying above a road. Needless to say that whatever the
> > > instrument then tells you is complete bogus, especially the HSI
> > > is "fun" to watch.....
> > > You will ask: "why the heck don't you disable this??".
> > > The problem is that the 196 automagically enables again it all
> > > the time as side-effect of other settings. There is no way to
> > > set it to off and keep it off (this is confirmed by Garmin).
> > > The only work-around I found sofar is it to religiously check
> > > and reset it every time I at startup and then not touch power,
> > > mode, settings, etc., anymore.
> >
> > I've not had my 196 for as long as you've had yours, but I've never
> observed
> > this behavior. I'll look for it, though. My observation would have been
> that
> > lock-to-road is in effect in land-mode, but not in aviation mode. I
wonder
> > whether we have different software versions. I'm on 2.7 (from memory). I
> think
> > 3.0 is available but I haven't downloaded it.
> >
> > Go to http://www.garmin.com and put in "lock to road" in the search
field
> and it
> > lists several software changes that have been made in that feature.
> >
> > >
> > > 2. Dead-Reckoning.
> > > Whenever the 196 looses the satellites (which does happen
> > > now and then near certain airports and/or with certain radio
> > > settings), it does not tell you. Instead, it covers up this
> > > fact and just extrapolates whatever your course was for no
> > > less than 30 seconds. You can set an alarm on "accuracy",
> > > but also this alarm is delayed by 30 seconds. So, if you
> > > loose the satellites, only after 30 seconds you find out
> > > that the information the 196 was giving you was bogus.
> > >
> >
> > I have seen this behavior. My old Garmin 90 worked the same way. It's
not
> a
> > problem for me.
> >
> > Remove "SHIRT" to reply directly.
> >
>
>

Roger Long
September 21st 03, 02:38 PM
I just updated out to that last database that will be released. It's a free
download from Garmin and a simple job if you have the cord.

When you download, it takes you to the payment page but the price is $0.00.


--
Roger Long
Jerry Bransford > wrote in message
news:bJabb.4097$gv5.3842@fed1read05...
> I have my Garmin GPS 90 with an outdated aviation database for sale... of
> course the airports don't move so as long as it's for VFR flight, it's
fine.
> I don't NEED to sell it but if I received a good offer, I would. Contact
me
> at if you are seriously interested. Of course you can
> update the database through Garmin. :)
>
> Garmin says this at http://www.garmin.com/products/gps90/
>
> "The GPS 90 became the best-selling aviation handheld by offering pilots
> powerful navigation features and tremendous value all in the smallest GPS
> package you can buy. Add in a crisp, backlit LCD display, an easy to use
> operating system and up to 20 hours of use on just four AA batteries, and
> it's no wonder the GPS 90 is the preferred choice of pilots around the
> world.
> The GPS 90 features a full Jeppesen® database complete with runway
diagrams,
> airport frequencies and airport services and altitude sensitive,
sectorized
> Class B and C airspace alerts. All on a 2.2 x 1.5 display that offers
> superior readability, even in direct sunlight. And it's easily accessible
> through a few simple keystrokes. The GPS 90's moving map display keeps
track
> of your every move, along with nearby airports, navaids and waypoints.
With
> continuous track, bearing, distance and ground speed data on screen, you
can
> use the moving map to navigate right to your destination.
>
> But the power of the GPS 90 doesn't stop there. The navigation page
provides
> steering guidance to your destination, complete with VNAV, ETE and
> crosstrack data. Top it off with a full complement of standard accessories
> like a universal yoke mount, power cable and antenna mount, and you've got
> the handheld GPS pilots just can't get enough of-the Garmin® GPS 90."
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ted Lindgreen wrote:
> >
> > > The 196 is a great GPS, but it has two "features", that, had I
> > > know it before, would have caused me to never have bought it.
> > >
> > > 1. Lock-to-Road.
> > > The 196 is a combined aviation/automotive/marine GPS.
> > > For road-usage Garmin build in a feature, "Lock-to-Road",
> > > to coverup both map- and GPS errors. As some maps are
> > > pretty bad, and it seems to try to "fix" pre-SA GPS errors,
> > > this can offset your actual position by hundreds of feet.
> > > I have observed my 196 a few times to kick into "Lock-to-Road"
> > > mode when flying above a road. Needless to say that whatever the
> > > instrument then tells you is complete bogus, especially the HSI
> > > is "fun" to watch.....
> > > You will ask: "why the heck don't you disable this??".
> > > The problem is that the 196 automagically enables again it all
> > > the time as side-effect of other settings. There is no way to
> > > set it to off and keep it off (this is confirmed by Garmin).
> > > The only work-around I found sofar is it to religiously check
> > > and reset it every time I at startup and then not touch power,
> > > mode, settings, etc., anymore.
> >
> > I've not had my 196 for as long as you've had yours, but I've never
> observed
> > this behavior. I'll look for it, though. My observation would have been
> that
> > lock-to-road is in effect in land-mode, but not in aviation mode. I
wonder
> > whether we have different software versions. I'm on 2.7 (from memory). I
> think
> > 3.0 is available but I haven't downloaded it.
> >
> > Go to http://www.garmin.com and put in "lock to road" in the search
field
> and it
> > lists several software changes that have been made in that feature.
> >
> > >
> > > 2. Dead-Reckoning.
> > > Whenever the 196 looses the satellites (which does happen
> > > now and then near certain airports and/or with certain radio
> > > settings), it does not tell you. Instead, it covers up this
> > > fact and just extrapolates whatever your course was for no
> > > less than 30 seconds. You can set an alarm on "accuracy",
> > > but also this alarm is delayed by 30 seconds. So, if you
> > > loose the satellites, only after 30 seconds you find out
> > > that the information the 196 was giving you was bogus.
> > >
> >
> > I have seen this behavior. My old Garmin 90 worked the same way. It's
not
> a
> > problem for me.
> >
> > Remove "SHIRT" to reply directly.
> >
>
>

Jerry Bransford
September 21st 03, 04:59 PM
"Roger Long" m> wrote in
message ...
> I just updated out to that last database that will be released. It's a
free
> download from Garmin and a simple job if you have the cord.
>
> When you download, it takes you to the payment page but the price is
$0.00.

Oh NO KIDDING, thanks Roger!! That's great news, thanks for the
information.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
>
>
> --
> Roger Long
> Jerry Bransford > wrote in message
> news:bJabb.4097$gv5.3842@fed1read05...
> > I have my Garmin GPS 90 with an outdated aviation database for sale...
of
> > course the airports don't move so as long as it's for VFR flight, it's
> fine.
> > I don't NEED to sell it but if I received a good offer, I would.
Contact
> me
> > at if you are seriously interested. Of course you can
> > update the database through Garmin. :)
> >
> > Garmin says this at http://www.garmin.com/products/gps90/
> >
> > "The GPS 90 became the best-selling aviation handheld by offering pilots
> > powerful navigation features and tremendous value all in the smallest
GPS
> > package you can buy. Add in a crisp, backlit LCD display, an easy to use
> > operating system and up to 20 hours of use on just four AA batteries,
and
> > it's no wonder the GPS 90 is the preferred choice of pilots around the
> > world.
> > The GPS 90 features a full Jeppesen® database complete with runway
> diagrams,
> > airport frequencies and airport services and altitude sensitive,
> sectorized
> > Class B and C airspace alerts. All on a 2.2 x 1.5 display that offers
> > superior readability, even in direct sunlight. And it's easily
accessible
> > through a few simple keystrokes. The GPS 90's moving map display keeps
> track
> > of your every move, along with nearby airports, navaids and waypoints.
> With
> > continuous track, bearing, distance and ground speed data on screen, you
> can
> > use the moving map to navigate right to your destination.
> >
> > But the power of the GPS 90 doesn't stop there. The navigation page
> provides
> > steering guidance to your destination, complete with VNAV, ETE and
> > crosstrack data. Top it off with a full complement of standard
accessories
> > like a universal yoke mount, power cable and antenna mount, and you've
got
> > the handheld GPS pilots just can't get enough of-the Garmin® GPS 90."
> >
> > Jerry
> > --
> > Jerry Bransford
> > To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> > KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
> >
> > "Dave Butler" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Ted Lindgreen wrote:
> > >
> > > > The 196 is a great GPS, but it has two "features", that, had I
> > > > know it before, would have caused me to never have bought it.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Lock-to-Road.
> > > > The 196 is a combined aviation/automotive/marine GPS.
> > > > For road-usage Garmin build in a feature, "Lock-to-Road",
> > > > to coverup both map- and GPS errors. As some maps are
> > > > pretty bad, and it seems to try to "fix" pre-SA GPS errors,
> > > > this can offset your actual position by hundreds of feet.
> > > > I have observed my 196 a few times to kick into "Lock-to-Road"
> > > > mode when flying above a road. Needless to say that whatever the
> > > > instrument then tells you is complete bogus, especially the HSI
> > > > is "fun" to watch.....
> > > > You will ask: "why the heck don't you disable this??".
> > > > The problem is that the 196 automagically enables again it all
> > > > the time as side-effect of other settings. There is no way to
> > > > set it to off and keep it off (this is confirmed by Garmin).
> > > > The only work-around I found sofar is it to religiously check
> > > > and reset it every time I at startup and then not touch power,
> > > > mode, settings, etc., anymore.
> > >
> > > I've not had my 196 for as long as you've had yours, but I've never
> > observed
> > > this behavior. I'll look for it, though. My observation would have
been
> > that
> > > lock-to-road is in effect in land-mode, but not in aviation mode. I
> wonder
> > > whether we have different software versions. I'm on 2.7 (from memory).
I
> > think
> > > 3.0 is available but I haven't downloaded it.
> > >
> > > Go to http://www.garmin.com and put in "lock to road" in the search
> field
> > and it
> > > lists several software changes that have been made in that feature.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. Dead-Reckoning.
> > > > Whenever the 196 looses the satellites (which does happen
> > > > now and then near certain airports and/or with certain radio
> > > > settings), it does not tell you. Instead, it covers up this
> > > > fact and just extrapolates whatever your course was for no
> > > > less than 30 seconds. You can set an alarm on "accuracy",
> > > > but also this alarm is delayed by 30 seconds. So, if you
> > > > loose the satellites, only after 30 seconds you find out
> > > > that the information the 196 was giving you was bogus.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have seen this behavior. My old Garmin 90 worked the same way. It's
> not
> > a
> > > problem for me.
> > >
> > > Remove "SHIRT" to reply directly.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

N7155A
September 23rd 03, 07:28 PM
According this eBay search:
http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&lprice=15&rfisactive=1&from=R14&query=gps+90&ht=1&completedonly=1

4 Garmin 90s sold for $100, 138.50, 142.25, and 151.00.

So I'd say between a $100 and 150 bucks...plus shipping

Mitch


"Jerry Bransford" > wrote in message news:<bJabb.4097$gv5.3842@fed1read05>...
> I have my Garmin GPS 90 with an outdated aviation database for sale... of
> course the airports don't move so as long as it's for VFR flight, it's fine.
> I don't NEED to sell it but if I received a good offer, I would. Contact me
> at if you are seriously interested. Of course you can
> update the database through Garmin. :)
>

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