Palmtop alternatives to Garmin 196

[Andrew Gideon]

I've asked this before, but (I think) in a different newsgroup. I'm going
to buy a handheld GPS, but I'm not sure what to buy.

Amongst the dedicated GPS boxes, my leaning is towards the Garmin 196. I've
read all sorts of good things about it here, and people seem to like it.
It also has the longer battery life of a B/W screen, which is important to
me.

But I'm seriously tempted by the various devices which provide several
features, including GPS features, in a palmtop (ie. the IPaq or such). I
especially like that these can be expanded to include weather downloads,
backup "gyro" instruments, etc.

When I asked about this last time, I got a lot of responses regarding the
Garmin. But there was very little posted about these palmtop products (ie.
like the Anywhere stuff). Are people not flying with these? Or are they
so good that the people flying with them haven't time for USENET <laugh>?

Any comments about these palmtop GPS solutions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...

Andrew

[JerryK]

I bought AnywhereMap about 6 months after they shipped. After playing with
it for a flight or 2 I put it back in the box and went back to my Garmin
195. Some things I did not like were: too many cables, dependent on ship's
power to run, non-dedicated keys, washed out display in direct sunlight, too
hard to enter waypoints with stylus.

I understand that a number of these have been addressed with newer versions.
However, I still like having dedicated controls and no cables.

jerry


"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
...
> I've asked this before, but (I think) in a different newsgroup. I'm going
> to buy a handheld GPS, but I'm not sure what to buy.
>
> Amongst the dedicated GPS boxes, my leaning is towards the Garmin 196.
I've
> read all sorts of good things about it here, and people seem to like it.
> It also has the longer battery life of a B/W screen, which is important to
> me.
>
> But I'm seriously tempted by the various devices which provide several
> features, including GPS features, in a palmtop (ie. the IPaq or such). I
> especially like that these can be expanded to include weather downloads,
> backup "gyro" instruments, etc.
>
> When I asked about this last time, I got a lot of responses regarding the
> Garmin. But there was very little posted about these palmtop products
(ie.
> like the Anywhere stuff). Are people not flying with these? Or are they
> so good that the people flying with them haven't time for USENET <laugh>?
>
> Any comments about these palmtop GPS solutions would be greatly
appreciated.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Andrew
>

[Richard Kaplan]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
...

> But I'm seriously tempted by the various devices which provide several
> features, including GPS features, in a palmtop (ie. the IPaq or such). I
> especially like that these can be expanded to include weather downloads,
> backup "gyro" instruments, etc.

Much has been written on this group about various portable solutions like
this for weather.

Yes, there are portable electronic gyros available but I think an electric
AI is a much better solution for the money... gyros are too critical and
belong in the panel.

As far as PDA-based GPS units, I think in the end buttons are far more
usable in flight than a stylus and screen. I have never seen and cannot
imagine a PDA-based interface usable in an airplane which is superior to a
dedicated handheld GPS with pushbuttons and rockerbuttons.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:32:53 -0400, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> I never have a (mechanical) pencil far from me; it's what I use to write
> clearances, frequences, altitudes, etc. I assume that this would work as a
> stylus.

No, don't use a pencil to write on it, it's easy to scratch the screen if
you use a pen or pencil. I use my stylus only, or my finger. To write
down freq's and such I use a pen, my stylus is clipped to my RAM mount so
it's at hand when I want it, but you won't use it that often. It's not
hard to input the things you want, in fact, now you really don't even need
to since you can assign buttons to different things. I have one button
assign to the nearest airport function, using it I just tap on the airport
I want and tell it to insert or whatever I wish.

> So one can use one of many different GPSs? How long does the iPAQ's battery

I use the mouse GPS they provide, mine doesn't have batteries in it, but
the new one does. You would have guessing based on my use of the iPAQ 4
hours or so. I don't know about the GPS, but it has batteries you can put
in so that's a non issue if I read the specs correctly.

> run both the GPS and the iPAQ? One of the major niches for what I'm
> looking to purchase is a backup. This would include, of course, electrical
> failure. So battery operation is important.

You can set them up to run on batteries if you want. They even sell a
pack to plug in and do this. You can also build your own.

> A concern I have is stability of the iPAQ's OS. It's an MSFT product, no?
> I've little faith in them, but I've never tried their portable versions.

Mine has never crashed, I'm using an iPAQ 3835 with ver 1.4 of the
software, plus I keep my logs with the aloft program on it and transfer it
to my PC later on when I sync.

[Morgans]

"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote >
> No, don't use a pencil to write on it, it's easy to scratch the screen if
> you use a pen or pencil. I use my stylus only, or my finger.

They make screen protectors you stick on; then you can use anything to write
with, and peel it off periodically and replace it
--
Jim in NC

[John T]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message

>
> So one can use one of many different GPSs? How long does the iPAQ's
> battery run both the GPS and the iPAQ? One of the major niches for
> what I'm looking to purchase is a backup. This would include, of
> course, electrical failure. So battery operation is important.

Yes, the AWM solution is compatible with a range of GPS receivers. As
others mentioned, ControlVision offers a remote GPS solution with its own
batteries. This configuration should offer several hours of operation on a
set of fully charged batteries.

FWIW, my Sentinel setup running on just the iPAQ internal battery (I have an
external power pack I can use) gives me well over 2 hours of continuous use.

> However, what I like about the iPAQ type solutions is the range of
> backup available. It looks expensive, but there's even a backup
> "gyro" available for the thing. That, plus the weather, plus the nav
> backup...very tempting.

<soapbox enabled=true>
The thing about backups of any kind is that they have to be ready for
immediate use at the time they're needed. For instance, having a handheld
transceiver is a great backup idea for when you lose all electrical power -
unless the handheld is in your flight bag packed away in the baggage area.

Similarly, for the solid-state AI and handheld GPS to be useful as backups,
they have to be handy at the time they're needed. Imagine flying at night
when all electrical is lost. Is this the time to be trying to set up a
handheld GPS with remote antenna? What about the backup AI? For that
matter, where's your flashlight?

Don't get me wrong. I have the handheld units to use as backups, too. I
just make sure the handheld GPS is setup while I'm on the ground (especially
before a night flight) and the transceiver is within arm's reach without
having to turn my head.
</soapbox>

> Since the airplanes I fly tend to have IFR GPSs, I'm less thrown by
> the fact that it may be not quite as user-friendly as a dedicated
> GPS. I don't, though, want to be messing with a nest of cables. I
> get enough of that at work <laugh>.

My iPAQ setup has a single wire that I find easy to keep out of the way.
Frankly, I find myself moving the headset cord around much more than the GPS
cable.

> A concern I have is stability of the iPAQ's OS. It's an MSFT
> product, no? I've little faith in them, but I've never tried their
> portable versions. Have you had a problem with this thing crashing?

While Windows does have a reputation for crashing at inopportune moments,
this opinion is usually propagated by UNIX holdouts, Linux/open source
champions or McLovers. :)

Kidding aside, the only time I've ever needed to perform a reset on my
device has been during app development (pesky closed loops will do that
every time). The AWM software has never needed a reboot, in my experience.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

[Tom Hyslip]

If you are looking at the PDA / GPS solution I would recommend taking a
look at pocketfms ( www.pocietfms.com )before you pay for a commercial
moving map solution. It does everything you can think of, and it is free.
It will even download the wind info and calculate your flight plan for you.
Very nice tool. For those that don't have PDA, the program installs on your
PC and then downloads the info to the PDA so you can also use it for flight
planning on your PC.

Very nice program.


"John T" > wrote in message
ws.com...
> "Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
>
> >
> > So one can use one of many different GPSs? How long does the iPAQ's
> > battery run both the GPS and the iPAQ? One of the major niches for
> > what I'm looking to purchase is a backup. This would include, of
> > course, electrical failure. So battery operation is important.
>
> Yes, the AWM solution is compatible with a range of GPS receivers. As
> others mentioned, ControlVision offers a remote GPS solution with its own
> batteries. This configuration should offer several hours of operation on
a
> set of fully charged batteries.
>
> FWIW, my Sentinel setup running on just the iPAQ internal battery (I have
an
> external power pack I can use) gives me well over 2 hours of continuous
use.
>
> > However, what I like about the iPAQ type solutions is the range of
> > backup available. It looks expensive, but there's even a backup
> > "gyro" available for the thing. That, plus the weather, plus the nav
> > backup...very tempting.
>
> <soapbox enabled=true>
> The thing about backups of any kind is that they have to be ready for
> immediate use at the time they're needed. For instance, having a handheld
> transceiver is a great backup idea for when you lose all electrical
power -
> unless the handheld is in your flight bag packed away in the baggage area.
>
> Similarly, for the solid-state AI and handheld GPS to be useful as
backups,
> they have to be handy at the time they're needed. Imagine flying at night
> when all electrical is lost. Is this the time to be trying to set up a
> handheld GPS with remote antenna? What about the backup AI? For that
> matter, where's your flashlight?
>
> Don't get me wrong. I have the handheld units to use as backups, too. I
> just make sure the handheld GPS is setup while I'm on the ground
(especially
> before a night flight) and the transceiver is within arm's reach without
> having to turn my head.
> </soapbox>
>
> > Since the airplanes I fly tend to have IFR GPSs, I'm less thrown by
> > the fact that it may be not quite as user-friendly as a dedicated
> > GPS. I don't, though, want to be messing with a nest of cables. I
> > get enough of that at work <laugh>.
>
> My iPAQ setup has a single wire that I find easy to keep out of the way.
> Frankly, I find myself moving the headset cord around much more than the
GPS
> cable.
>
> > A concern I have is stability of the iPAQ's OS. It's an MSFT
> > product, no? I've little faith in them, but I've never tried their
> > portable versions. Have you had a problem with this thing crashing?
>
> While Windows does have a reputation for crashing at inopportune moments,
> this opinion is usually propagated by UNIX holdouts, Linux/open source
> champions or McLovers. :)
>
> Kidding aside, the only time I've ever needed to perform a reset on my
> device has been during app development (pesky closed loops will do that
> every time). The AWM software has never needed a reboot, in my
experience.
>
> --
> John T
> http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
> __________
>
>

[Morgans]

"Tom Hyslip" > wrote in message
m...
> If you are looking at the PDA / GPS solution I would recommend taking a
> look at pocketfms ( www.pocietfms.com )before you pay for a commercial
> moving map solution. It does everything you can think of, and it is
free.
> It will even download the wind info and calculate your flight plan for
you.
> Very nice tool. For those that don't have PDA, the program installs on
your
> PC and then downloads the info to the PDA so you can also use it for
flight
> planning on your PC.
>
> Very nice program.

Dead Link

[Glenn Westfall]

Anyone use OziexplorerCE on their PDA? I downloaded the trial version
and it seems like a cool program. SAC's/WAC's/TAC's/IFR charts can be
downloaded from Aeroplanner and viewed on Oziexplorer. With GPS, it
is a very nice moving map program. I think the cost is $25 which I
think is well worth the money.

http://216.218.220.254/ozice/oziexplorerce1.html

Glenn





On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:00:33 GMT, David Megginson
> wrote:

>"Morgans" > writes:
>
>> "Tom Hyslip" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> If you are looking at the PDA / GPS solution I would recommend taking a
>>> look at pocketfms ( www.pocietfms.com )before you pay for a commercial
>>> moving map solution. It does everything you can think of, and it is
>> free.
>>> It will even download the wind info and calculate your flight plan for
>> you.
>>> Very nice tool. For those that don't have PDA, the program installs on
>> your
>>> PC and then downloads the info to the PDA so you can also use it for
>> flight
>>> planning on your PC.
>>>
>>> Very nice program.
>>
>> Dead Link
>
>Just change the "i" to a "k" -- that worked for me.
>
>
>All the best,
>
>
>David
>

[Carl J. Hixon]

Hmmm...Is it my imagination or is there no way to "download" the free
software? I didn't see a link.

Carl
"Tom Hyslip" > wrote in message
m...
> If you are looking at the PDA / GPS solution I would recommend taking a
> look at pocketfms ( www.pocietfms.com )before you pay for a commercial
> moving map solution. It does everything you can think of, and it is
free.
>