zzz Speak for yourself Zoom [Archive]

Ron Wanttaja

April 17th 04, 02:20 AM

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:36:54 GMT, John Ousterhout
> wrote:

>
>http://www.aero-news.net/Community/DiscussTopic.cfm?TopicID=1021&Refresh=1
>
>UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, April 8, 1999
>THE COURT: Honorable Richard A. Lazzara, United States District Judge
>THE WITNESS: James R. Campbell
>
>=============================
>
>THE COURT: You know, Mr. Campbell, maybe it hasn't dawned on you, but
>you're in a Federal Courtroom now.
>
>THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I understand that.
>
> THE COURT: Okay, and you're going to conduct yourself accordingly.
>
> THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
>
> THE COURT: All right?
>
> THE WITNESS: Okay.
>
> THE COURT: I don't want anymore flippant remarks like that.

Odd you should quote this case, John. Last month, SnF's attorneys in
Zoom's current case responded to Campbell's shotgun request for documents.
SnF's response to each request was basically, "...Defendant specifically
objects to this request on the grounds that it is overly broad, burdensome,
unduly vague, ambiguous...", etc.

HOWEVER, just to show they're good guys, anyway, they provide copies of two
documents: Stuff from the Federal case (quoted above) and from the NTSB
hearing where he lost his medical back in '80s. These have been formally
entered as exhibits.

A good article on Campbell's entry to the SnF grounds this week is in the
Lakeland Ledger, under the title, "Aviation Critic Buys Sun 'n Fun Ticket,
Eludes Efforts to Eject Him":

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040416/NEWS/404160391/1134

(Oddly enough, while the reporter says Zoom is *trying* to refile his
original case, he doesn't mention the current one.)

How this will affect the current case is unknown. The Fly-In president
says that Campbell violated the law by entering the grounds, even if a
mistake was made in selling him a ticket. If this is the case, this would
seem to strengthen SnF's case...after all, they claim they're worried he'll
engage in illegal activities, and here he is, violating a trespass order.
It sure seems to justify any actions they take to prevent his entry.

Wonder if Zoom's attorney knew about this stunt? Wonder how the judge
will view his violation of the trespass order coupled with the past
behaviors documented in the NTSB case?

Ron Wanttaja

John Ousterhout

April 17th 04, 06:04 AM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:20:12 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>A good article on Campbell's entry to the SnF grounds this week is in the
>Lakeland Ledger, under the title, "Aviation Critic Buys Sun 'n Fun Ticket,
>Eludes Efforts to Eject Him":
>
>http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040416/NEWS/404160391/1134
>
>(Oddly enough, while the reporter says Zoom is *trying* to refile his
>original case, he doesn't mention the current one.)
>
>How this will affect the current case is unknown. The Fly-In president
>says that Campbell violated the law by entering the grounds, even if a
>mistake was made in selling him a ticket. If this is the case, this would
>seem to strengthen SnF's case...after all, they claim they're worried he'll
>engage in illegal activities, and here he is, violating a trespass order.
>It sure seems to justify any actions they take to prevent his entry.
>
>Wonder if Zoom's attorney knew about this stunt? Wonder how the judge
>will view his violation of the trespass order coupled with the past
>behaviors documented in the NTSB case?

Gee, the less than objective story on ANN reports that right triumphed
as the Sun 'n Fun Administraton finally realized the error of their
ways and admitted Zoom.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=fe206387-1a65-4c83-8474-eeb2da1fd2d5&

Other than the names "Sun 'n Fun" and "Jim Campbell" one wouldn't
realize it was the same event as The Ledger reported.

I wondered if Zoom was really dumb enough to jeopardize his legal
action against Sun 'n Fun with this stunt, but then I realized who
we're talking about.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ousterj/zoom/se-4661.html

- John Ousterhout -

Ron Wanttaja

April 17th 04, 08:46 AM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 05:04:05 GMT, John Ousterhout
> wrote:

>I wondered if Zoom was really dumb enough to jeopardize his legal
>action against Sun 'n Fun with this stunt, but then I realized who
>we're talking about.

Yep... the situation regarding his current suit is going to be *very*
interesting.

For those who didn't see my posting of the original suit last year,
Campbell's suit basically claims that SnF went too far to ensure Campbell
didn't get on the grounds...posting his picture at the entries, warning
security people specifically about him, etc.

Probably on the advice of counsel, SnF didn't take the same precautions
this year...and Campbell made it inside.

I just can't wait for Campbell's attorney to stand up in court and explain
why SnF's actions in previous years weren't necessary to enforce the ban.
Or hear him claim Campbell always behaved himself at Sun-N-Fun, when he
can't even obey Florida state law.

Ron Wanttaja

jls

April 17th 04, 12:15 PM

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:36:54 GMT, John Ousterhout
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
>http://www.aero-news.net/Community/DiscussTopic.cfm?TopicID=1021&Refresh=1
> >
> >UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, April 8, 1999
> >THE COURT: Honorable Richard A. Lazzara, United States District Judge
> >THE WITNESS: James R. Campbell
> >
> >=============================
> >
> >THE COURT: You know, Mr. Campbell, maybe it hasn't dawned on you, but
> >you're in a Federal Courtroom now.
> >
> >THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I understand that.
> >
> > THE COURT: Okay, and you're going to conduct yourself accordingly.
> >
> > THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
> >
> > THE COURT: All right?
> >
> > THE WITNESS: Okay.
> >
> > THE COURT: I don't want anymore flippant remarks like that.

How about the flippant remarks? Where are they, what are they, and were
they spoken in the presence of a jury or was this during just a hearing
before the judge?

>
> Odd you should quote this case, John. Last month, SnF's attorneys in
> Zoom's current case responded to Campbell's shotgun request for documents.
> SnF's response to each request was basically, "...Defendant specifically
> objects to this request on the grounds that it is overly broad,
burdensome,
> unduly vague, ambiguous...", etc.

Typical because apparently what he is trying to do is overwork them and run
them ragged with onerous requests. This sort of excess usually backfires
later on. But maybe his opponents are doing it to him too, in which case
there's a dogfall and the judge finally gets angry and fines both sides.

>
> HOWEVER, just to show they're good guys, anyway, they provide copies of
two
> documents: Stuff from the Federal case (quoted above) and from the NTSB
> hearing where he lost his medical back in '80s. These have been formally
> entered as exhibits.
>
> A good article on Campbell's entry to the SnF grounds this week is in the
> Lakeland Ledger, under the title, "Aviation Critic Buys Sun 'n Fun Ticket,
> Eludes Efforts to Eject Him":
>
>
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040416/NEWS/404160391/
1134
>
> (Oddly enough, while the reporter says Zoom is *trying* to refile his
> original case, he doesn't mention the current one.)

Inform him, Mr. Wanttaja. You are excellent at info. You shoulda been a
lawyer.

>
> How this will affect the current case is unknown. The Fly-In president
> says that Campbell violated the law by entering the grounds, even if a
> mistake was made in selling him a ticket. If this is the case, this would
> seem to strengthen SnF's case...after all, they claim they're worried
he'll
> engage in illegal activities, and here he is, violating a trespass order.

Would this be a court order? Or just a notice by the management that he is
not to come on the grounds?

> It sure seems to justify any actions they take to prevent his entry.
>
> Wonder if Zoom's attorney knew about this stunt? Wonder how the judge
> will view his violation of the trespass order coupled with the past
> behaviors documented in the NTSB case?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

A few days in jail for contempt might be a good bromide for the Zoomer.

jls

April 17th 04, 12:49 PM

" jls" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:36:54 GMT, John Ousterhout
> > > wrote:
> >
[...]> > Ron Wanttaja
>
> A few days in jail for contempt might be a good bromide for the Zoomer.
>
>

Well, I read the article Ron published a link to. Campbell's argument is
that the airshow can't keep him out because of the First Amendment. But
First Amendment violations are state actions. Sun'n'Fun keeping the
paunchy menace out is not state action, and besides he's still full of lip.
The federal judge ruled that Sun'n'Fun is not state action. It has the
right to refuse entry.

Betcha $100 to a nickel they are trying to take a criminal trespass warrant
against Campbell.

jls

April 17th 04, 05:05 PM

" jls" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> " jls" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:36:54 GMT, John Ousterhout
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> [...]> > Ron Wanttaja
> >
> > A few days in jail for contempt might be a good bromide for the Zoomer.
> >
> >
>
> Well, I read the article Ron published a link to. Campbell's argument is
> that the airshow can't keep him out because of the First Amendment. But
> First Amendment violations are state actions. Sun'n'Fun keeping the
> paunchy menace out is not state action, and besides he's still full of
lip.
> The federal judge ruled that Sun'n'Fun is not state action. It has the
> right to refuse entry.
>
> Betcha $100 to a nickel they are trying to take a criminal trespass
warrant
> against Campbell.
>

OTOH, I have been reading in ANN and it is really good reading, especially
that informative article about Superior's certified IO-360 by Sow'sass
O'Brien. So. Campbell is NOT going away. There's nothing on the
internet that I can see which fills the niche he's filling, so why not go
ahead and acknowledge him. And even the old sow too.
*****************************
GLOUCESTER:

His breeding, sir, hath been at my charge: I have so often blush'd to
acknowledge[3] him, that now I am braz'd to't.

KENT:

I cannot conceive[4] you.

GLOUCESTER:

Sir, this young fellow's mother could: whereupon she grew round-womb'd, and
had, indeed, sir, a son for her cradle ere she had a husband for her bed. Do
you smell a fault[5]?

KENT:

I cannot wish the fault undone, the issue of it being so proper[6].

GLOUCESTER:

But I have, sir, a son by order of law, some year elder than this, who yet
is no dearer in my account[7]: though this knave came somewhat saucily into
the world before he was sent for, yet was his mother fair; there was good
sport at his making, and the whoreson must be acknowledged.
(from Shakespeare's _King Lear_)
********************************

So, back to the hangar for a baffling problem, whereby the baffling is
baffled and its lips are sealed.

Ron Wanttaja

April 17th 04, 05:26 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:15:43 -0400, " jls" > wrote:

>"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > THE COURT: I don't want anymore flippant remarks like that.
>
>How about the flippant remarks? Where are they, what are they, and were
>they spoken in the presence of a jury or was this during just a hearing
>before the judge?

This was a hearing before the judge, no jury. Basically, Campbell filed a
state suit claiming his Constitutional rights had been violated, and asked
for an emergency injunction to set aside the banning to allow him to attend
SnF 1999. A week or two prior to the event, SnF's attorney had the case
moved to Federal court because of Constitutional claims. Campbell's
attorney still managed to get a court date to have the judge rule on the
motion for a temporary injunction.

Zoom got more than he bargained for. Not only did the judge deny the
temporary injunction, he threw the entire case out.

The "flippant remarks" involved, among other things, Zoom interrupting the
judge. It happened when Zoom was being cross-examined by SnF's attorney:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Do you know people by the name of Jones, Don Jones --

A. The convicted felon Don Jones who almost killed an FBI agent.

THE COURT: Excuse me, excuse me, he asks the questions --

THE WITNESS: I do know Mr. Jones.

THE COURT: Excuse me, I'm not through yet.

THE WITNESS: Oh, I apologize.

THE COURT: He asks the questions, you give an answer. Do not editorialize,
do not characterize.

THE WITNESS: Oops. It's my job. Sorry, sir.

THE COURT: You know, Mr. Campbell, maybe it hasn't dawned on you, but
you're in a Federal Courtroom now.

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I understand that.

THE COURT: Okay, and you're going to conduct yourself accordingly.
----------------------------------------------------

For those without your set of Cap'n Zoom Trading Cards (tm), Don Jones'
("The convicted felon Don Jones who almost killed an FBI agent") OTHER
claim to infamy is that he provided the funding for Jim Campbell's first
magazine venture ("Aviator International," published in California).

It failed after a single issue. Campbell and Jones were sued...but the
wrong James Campbell was served. Before the creditors could correct the
error, Cap'n Zoom departed for Florida and started "Gulf Coast Aviator"
which, after one or two magazines, morphed into "US Aviator."

And, of course, within an issue or two, US Aviator was printing about the
evil Mr. Jones...without mentioning the failed business relationship
between Jones and the publisher/editor/reporter of the magazine.
Ironically, I've been told that Jones was INDEED bad news. But
journalistic ethics required at least revealing the past relationship...
which, in all honesty, would have made a more powerful story.

>> Odd you should quote this case, John. Last month, SnF's attorneys in
>> Zoom's current case responded to Campbell's shotgun request for documents.
>> SnF's response to each request was basically, "...Defendant specifically
>> objects to this request on the grounds that it is overly broad,
>> burdensome, unduly vague, ambiguous...", etc.
>
>Typical because apparently what he is trying to do is overwork them and run
>them ragged with onerous requests. This sort of excess usually backfires
>later on. But maybe his opponents are doing it to him too, in which case
>there's a dogfall and the judge finally gets angry and fines both sides.

Better legal minds than I will have to decide whether SnF's requests are
excessively onerous. Out of 26 documents requested by SnF, Campbell claims
that three of the requests are overbroad, and denies that documents exist
in 11 of the requests (like I posted a couple of weeks back, these had to
do with documentation of items such as ANN's circulation and financial
statements to back up Campbell's claim of financial loss due to SnF's
alleged actions). The rest of the requested documents are "Within the
exclusive care, custody and control of the Defendant," or, in three cases,
supplied (copy of his driver's license, etc.).

>> (Oddly enough, while the reporter says Zoom is *trying* to refile his
>> original case, he doesn't mention the current one.)
>
>Inform him, Mr. Wanttaja. You are excellent at info. You shoulda been a
>lawyer.

All right that does it.... it's pistols at dawn. :-)

I sent an email to the reporter, including a link to the Polk County Clerk
site that lists the filings in the case.

I'm not too sanguine about it. A couple of years back, this same reporter
mentioned Zoom's claims about Chuck, and said "Calls to CGS Aircraft in
Ohio went unreturned." But, of course, they were unreturned because Chuck
was AT Sun-and-Fun. The reporter could have walked right up and got
Chuck's side of the story, but didn't bother.

>> How this will affect the current case is unknown. The Fly-In president
>> says that Campbell violated the law by entering the grounds, even if a
>> mistake was made in selling him a ticket. If this is the case, this would
>> seem to strengthen SnF's case...after all, they claim they're worried
>> he'll engage in illegal activities, and here he is, violating a trespass order.
>
>Would this be a court order? Or just a notice by the management that he is
>not to come on the grounds?

It's just a trespass notice, not a court order. Bet SnF will also go for a
court order from the judge for the current suit.

(And, in a follow-up message, JLS posted:)

>Well, I read the article Ron published a link to. Campbell's argument is
>that the airshow can't keep him out because of the First Amendment. But
>First Amendment violations are state actions. Sun'n'Fun keeping the
>paunchy menace out is not state action, and besides he's still full of lip.
>The federal judge ruled that Sun'n'Fun is not state action. It has the
>right to refuse entry.

Campbell claims that SnF gets state or local money, and thus it becomes a
state action. What's NOT mentioned in the newspaper article is that
Campbell *did* subsequently make that claim to the Federal judge, and
requested a re-hearing. The judge turned him down...even if Zoom's claims
were true, there was still no state action involved.

>Betcha $100 to a nickel they are trying to take a criminal trespass warrant
>against Campbell.

No takers here.

If he ends up in court over this, it'll be interesting. He can't claim he
had a Constitutional right to be there...as a Federal judge has already
ruled that he doesn't. He can't claim it was an act of civil
disobedience...because the point of civil disobedience is to GET arrested,
not skulk around for an hour or so and leave without getting caught.

He'll probably get hit with a small fine and a warning (first offense). No
repeat stay at the Graybar Hotel for Zoom this time....

Ron Wanttaja

El Roto

April 18th 04, 11:03 PM

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Wonder if Zoom's attorney knew about this stunt? Wonder how the judge
> will view his violation of the trespass order coupled with the past
> behaviors documented in the NTSB case?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Next thing you know, Zoom will file a motion that he and Courtney Love are
friends. hehe

Ron Wanttaja

April 20th 04, 05:22 AM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:26:34 GMT, I wrote:

>For those without your set of Cap'n Zoom Trading Cards (tm), Don Jones'
>("The convicted felon Don Jones who almost killed an FBI agent") OTHER
>claim to infamy is that he provided the funding for Jim Campbell's first
>magazine venture ("Aviator International," published in California).
>
>It failed after a single issue. Campbell and Jones were sued...but the
>wrong James Campbell was served. Before the creditors could correct the
>error, Cap'n Zoom departed for Florida and started "Gulf Coast Aviator"
>which, after one or two magazines, morphed into "US Aviator."

Well, heaven forfend. I got some of this wrong. One of the
more-knowledgeable ones corrected me on this one, and, when I checked some
of the public record, I found he was probably right.

I hate it when that happens. But, I'd better correct my posting and be
accurate:

1. "Aviator International" did not fail after a single issue. It was
*never* published. It only existed in a dummied-up form to show what the
published magazine would look like. It never went into printing nor
distribution.

2. It happened in Florida, not California. The plaintiff, a print shop,
filed suit in Hillsborough County, Florida. Case #90-05591-F

3. So, obviously Campbell didn't miss getting re-served by leaving
California for Florida. I was wrong in that aspect. He does confirm that
someone else was accidentally served, instead of him: "I was removed from
that suit, very quickly when the suing parties realized that they were
duped--especially when they served the wrong Jim Campbell (I was never
served BTW)."

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E29711218

While he is listed as a defendant, Campbell is not listed as one of the
parties to the final judgement:

http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/details.asp?doc_id=595499&file_num=91012685&doc_status=V

Oddly enough, the plaintiff in the case filed an "Affidavit of Current
Address" referencing this case about eight years later. In this filing,
Campbell is still listed as a defendant.

http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/details.asp?doc_id=1892297&file_num=98010997&doc_status=V

Gawd, ain't it great what you can find with a couple of keyword
searches....

Ron Wanttaja

Dino Shore

April 20th 04, 10:25 AM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:03:24 -0500, "El Roto"
> wrote:

>
>Next thing you know, Zoom will file a motion that he and Courtney Love are
>friends. hehe

Don't laugh.
If you know the Zoom pattern....

This could happen if Courtney should die tragically and\or
prematurely. She then could not refute a claim of close
friendship... or even titillating romance, while he basked in
his self generated limelight.

Frank Hitlaw

April 20th 04, 11:25 AM

Ron Wanttaja > wrote in message >...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:26:34 GMT, I wrote:
>
> >For those without your set of Cap'n Zoom Trading Cards (tm), Don Jones'
> >("The convicted felon Don Jones who almost killed an FBI agent") OTHER
> >claim to infamy is that he provided the funding for Jim Campbell's first
> >magazine venture ("Aviator International," published in California).
> >
> >It failed after a single issue. Campbell and Jones were sued...but the
> >wrong James Campbell was served. Before the creditors could correct the
> >error, Cap'n Zoom departed for Florida and started "Gulf Coast Aviator"
> >which, after one or two magazines, morphed into "US Aviator."
>
> Well, heaven forfend. I got some of this wrong. One of the
> more-knowledgeable ones corrected me on this one, and, when I checked some
> of the public record, I found he was probably right.
>
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++snip+++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Gawd, ain't it great what you can find with a couple of keyword
> searches....
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Ron;

There is an airport housing development at Winter Haven called
Eagles Landing,strangely another James Campbell has a home there.I
spoke to him several times and and he told me about the service error.
He threatened to File against everyone so his name was dropped from
the suit.The folks at Color Concepts in the end found that The
zzzoomer didn't have anything to go after so they never refiled on
him.
The post heard round the world authored by me and posted by Bob
Yoder was just a shot across zzzzoom's bow. When I pinned a copy of
this suit on the FBO's bulletin board at Winter Haven zzzzzoom went
ballistic. It lead to a confrontation in the street. ZZZZZoom had most
of his toadies posted as witnesses and he called me over to where he
was. He started on me hoping to get a rise from me and he did. I just
said you are supposed to be such a bad ass (remember he was a Massod
(sp?) agent) lets just you and I go out behind a hangar and settle
this. Well old zzzoomer said something pretty nasty about me and I
thought screw behind the hangar I am going to see if I can feed him
his teeth right here and right now! When I reached for him he started
yelling for the police and running and I just couldn't catch him. This
lead to him filing criminal Assault & Battery charges against me. By
the time the case went to court he had a falling out with the person
that was listed as a witness and she had a memory lapse. I represented
myself and got all the charges dropped.
So history does repeat itself, isn't he having some type of problem
with his witness in his SnF suit. The guy is about as smart as a
bucket of hair.

Frank M.Hitlaw ,14 years fighting the dark side

Richard Riley

April 20th 04, 04:09 PM

On 20 Apr 2004 03:25:57 -0700, (Frank Hitlaw)
wrote:

"The guy is about as smart as a bucket of hair."

There's one for the quote file :)

RR
A relative newcomer at 11 years.

Drew Dalgleish

April 20th 04, 09:50 PM

>On 20 Apr 2004 03:25:57 -0700, (Frank Hitlaw)
>wrote:
>
>"The guy is about as smart as a bucket of hair."

I'm sure glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read this...snort..
chucle

B2431

April 21st 04, 10:16 AM

Did zoom show up this year?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 21st 04, 09:26 PM

In article >, B2431 says...
>
>Did zoom show up this year?
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

He sure did and he got in because of a snafu at the media booth .He did have to
buy a ticket tho'. Last I heard, the Federal Judge who issued zoom the "keep
out of SnF" order is not happy and I await further developments on that front.I
also heard the Sheriffs dept is also not happy with zoomy but I didn't hear why.
Had I seen him I would have notified the "authorities" :-) or tackled him!!

Also had a nice conversation with former zoom editor Tim Kerns .He seems to be a
nice guy and is now an official member of the I've been zoomed club . Don't
know of anyone who ever left zooms employ who didn't get zoomed. Among other
things I heard was that Tim was extending zoom the courtesy of a 2 week notice
before he quit. He was then given 10 minutes to get his stuff and get out.
The usual accusations followed ,Tim stole the mailing lists etc,.. Tim didn't
get paid his commissions either .Those of you who used to work for him know
the drill. He's nuts as ever IMOH of course.
Maybe he'll get a contempt of Court charge and spend some time with Bubba in the
slammer. Now that would be justice !!

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

Model Flyer

April 22nd 04, 12:29 AM

"Drew Dalgleish" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> >On 20 Apr 2004 03:25:57 -0700, (Frank Hitlaw)
> >wrote:
> >
> >"The guy is about as smart as a bucket of hair."
>
> I'm sure glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read
this...snort..
> chucle
>

Real problem, coffee up the nose smells worse than ****.:-(

--
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe.
/
don't bother me with insignificiant nonsence such as spelling,
I don't care if it spelt properly
/
Sometimes I fly and sometimes I just dream about it.
:-)

Rich Ahrens

April 22nd 04, 12:37 AM

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

> Maybe he'll get a contempt of Court charge and spend some time with Bubba in the
> slammer. Now that would be justice !!

Hey! What did Bubba ever do to deserve that kind of abuse?

Jerry Springer

April 22nd 04, 02:30 AM

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

> In article >, B2431 says...
>
>>Did zoom show up this year?
>>
>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
> He sure did and he got in because of a snafu at the media booth .He did have to
> buy a ticket tho'. Last I heard, the Federal Judge who issued zoom the "keep
> out of SnF" order is not happy and I await further developments on that front.I
> also heard the Sheriffs dept is also not happy with zoomy but I didn't hear why.
> Had I seen him I would have notified the "authorities" :-) or tackled him!!
>
> Also had a nice conversation with former zoom editor Tim Kerns .He seems to be a
> nice guy and is now an official member of the I've been zoomed club . Don't
> know of anyone who ever left zooms employ who didn't get zoomed. Among other
> things I heard was that Tim was extending zoom the courtesy of a 2 week notice
> before he quit. He was then given 10 minutes to get his stuff and get out.
> The usual accusations followed ,Tim stole the mailing lists etc,.. Tim didn't
> get paid his commissions either .Those of you who used to work for him know
> the drill. He's nuts as ever IMOH of course.
> Maybe he'll get a contempt of Court charge and spend some time with Bubba in the
> slammer. Now that would be justice !!
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
>

Hay Chuck I see a couple CGS Hawks won awards.

http://www.sun-n-fun.org/content/interior.asp?section=flyin&body=2004_awards

Ron Wanttaja

April 22nd 04, 03:01 AM

On 21 Apr 2004 13:26:00 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>Also had a nice conversation with former zoom editor Tim Kerns .He seems to be a
>nice guy and is now an official member of the I've been zoomed club . Don't
>know of anyone who ever left zooms employ who didn't get zoomed. Among other
>things I heard was that Tim was extending zoom the courtesy of a 2 week notice
>before he quit. He was then given 10 minutes to get his stuff and get out.
>The usual accusations followed ,Tim stole the mailing lists etc,.. Tim didn't
>get paid his commissions either.

I hope you gave him a CGS T-Shirt to wear at Oshkosh this year, Chuck. :-)

Speculation has been rife about a rift between Kern and Zoom, ever since
Kern's name disappeared from the ANN masthead and many of his archived
articles had his byline removed.

This confirmation has some interesting ramifications. First, of course,
few of the folks who work with ANN were involved in US AVIATOR and thus
haven't experienced this sort of event before. They've no doubt been
*told* that it has happened to folks in the past. But like most reasonable
people, they find these stories hard to reconcile with their own
experiences with the Zoomer.

Now, of course...they're in a different situation. They liked Zoom, they
(probably) liked Kern, but these two are now accusing each other. Which
should they believe? And, will they remember that the Campbell behavior
Kern describes is similar to the description in those stories the listeners
originally found unbelievable?

The second point involves Zoom's current lawsuit against SnF. In his
filings, he has identified three people who would back up his story. The
very first person mentioned is Tim Kern.

I'm sure Mr. Kern's testimony as to what he observed at SnF won't change.
However, since SnF's banning of Campbell is at the root of the suit, it's
not far-fetched that Snf's attorney might ask Kern whether Campbell has
ever behaved irrationally or in a threatening manner. Campbell, about ten
years ago, accused one of his previous ex-editors of theft (and other
misdeeds) *AT* Sun-n-Fun. I suspect this incident is in SnF's
documentation relative to the banning, and Kern's testimony might show that
Campbell's behavior hasn't changed.

So Campbell is not likely to have Kern do a deposition. But what would
happen if SnF's attorney said, "OK, let's start the depositions with the
first person on your list: Tim Kern."

If Zoom protested, it would look MIGHTY strange to the judge...refusing to
have one of his own witnesses testify under oath.

Ron Wanttaja

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 22nd 04, 12:20 PM

In article t>, Jerry Springer
says...
>>
>Hay Chuck I see a couple CGS Hawks won awards.

Yep we sure did ."Best Trainer" and "Outstanding Single place" Both planes
belong to Steve Bensinger and he did an excellent job on both of them.
A win for Steve becomes a win for us as well :-) Makes ya feel like a proud
Papa.

I must also humbly report that yours truly was honored by Kitplanes magazine as
one of the 20 most influential people in homebuilding in the last 20 years. The
Award is in conjunction with the 20th year anniversary of Kitplanes Magazine. I
feel honored to be recognized and appreciate the the award.

I didn't see many RAH members this show .I had a nice chat with Walt Troyer
and a couple of others .Barnaby Wainfan stopped by a few times and filled me in
on Richard Riellys new duties as a new parent :-) I really wished zoom would
have had the guts to come to the UL area so I could have captured him but
neither he or jaun showed up.I wonder if all who saw him and didn't say anything
to the security people or the police are guilty of somehing?
Like maybe bad judgement???

All in all the numbers of people were down at least in the UL area but the ones
that were there were serious buyers and not tire kickers.

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 22nd 04, 12:40 PM

In article >, Ron Wanttaja says...

>I hope you gave him a CGS T-Shirt to wear at Oshkosh this year, Chuck. :-)

I wish I would have thought of that but I was thinking of a "I've been zoomed
shirt". Maybe we should have an "I've been zoomed" party at the CGS tent at
Oshkosh this year .We could all wear our T shirts and watch the adventures of
Capt zoom in outer space movie, we could play the zoom drinking game etc...
"
>
>Speculation has been rife about a rift between Kern and Zoom, ever since
>Kern's name disappeared from the ANN masthead and many of his archived
>articles had his byline removed.

Like the Soviets those in disfavor disappear from sight . There were some
accusations of plagerism and the usual stuff. Tim started asking the wrong
questions and the rest is history.

>
>This confirmation has some interesting ramifications. First, of course,
>few of the folks who work with ANN were involved in US AVIATOR and thus
>haven't experienced this sort of event before. They've no doubt been
>*told* that it has happened to folks in the past. But like most reasonable
>people, they find these stories hard to reconcile with their own
>experiences with the Zoomer.

As it was with Tim I'm sure
>
>Now, of course...they're in a different situation. They liked Zoom, they
>(probably) liked Kern, but these two are now accusing each other. Which
>should they believe? And, will they remember that the Campbell behavior
>Kern describes is similar to the description in those stories the listeners
>originally found unbelievable?

Tim is in a good position as are those others who left zooms employ in that
they have kept their integrety and credibility. They won't have any problem
getting to write for anyone else.The people who know better and have supported
zoom have lost credibility among their peers and varing degrees of respect.
jaun is a typical example his reputation among other writers is mud because he
should know better but still blindly supports zoom. Wonder if jaun will start to
tear apart Tim now that they are no longer on the same team?

>
>The second point involves Zoom's current lawsuit against SnF. In his
>filings, he has identified three people who would back up his story. The
very first person mentioned is Tim Kern.
>
>I'm sure Mr. Kern's testimony as to what he observed at SnF won't change.
>However, since SnF's banning of Campbell is at the root of the suit, it's
>not far-fetched that Snf's attorney might ask Kern whether Campbell has
>ever behaved irrationally or in a threatening manner. Campbell, about ten
>years ago, accused one of his previous ex-editors of theft (and other
>misdeeds) *AT* Sun-n-Fun. I suspect this incident is in SnF's
>documentation relative to the banning, and Kern's testimony might show that
>Campbell's behavior hasn't changed.

We all know that zooms actions haven't changed one bit ,he's as phony as ever.

>
>So Campbell is not likely to have Kern do a deposition. But what would
>happen if SnF's attorney said, "OK, let's start the depositions with the
>first person on your list: Tim Kern."

If the lawsuit ever gets that far I will fly down just to sit in the audience to
watch and listen .I will really enjoy watching zoomy squirm when they ask about
his invisible son and his Etheopian food flights and his 2000 types flown and
etc etc, .

>
>If Zoom protested, it would look MIGHTY strange to the judge...refusing to
>have one of his own witnesses testify under oath.

I'm sure he'll cry like a baby if Tim gets called and all Tim has to do is tell
the truth about what he saw and heard from zoom during his employ.

RobertR237

April 22nd 04, 01:40 PM

>
>I must also humbly report that yours truly was honored by Kitplanes magazine
>as
>one of the 20 most influential people in homebuilding in the last 20 years.
>The
>Award is in conjunction with the 20th year anniversary of Kitplanes Magazine.
>I
>feel honored to be recognized and appreciate the the award.
>

That sounds like some very interesting and important aviation news...did anyone
see it reported on the Aero-NUT-Network?

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Capt.Doug

April 22nd 04, 05:16 PM

>"ChuckSlusarczyk" wrote in message > I'm sure he'll cry like a baby if Tim
>gets called and all Tim has to do is tell
> the truth about what he saw and heard from zoom during his employ.

That doesn't fit the behavioral pattern. Mr. Kern will be labeled as a
disgruntled former employee and his testimony will be discounted by Zoom's
lawyer.

D.

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 22nd 04, 05:31 PM

In article >, RobertR237 says...
>
>>
>>I must also humbly report that yours truly was honored by Kitplanes magazine
>>as
>>one of the 20 most influential people in homebuilding in the last 20 years.
>>The
>>Award is in conjunction with the 20th year anniversary of Kitplanes Magazine.
>>I
>>feel honored to be recognized and appreciate the the award.
>>
>
>That sounds like some very interesting and important aviation news...did anyone
>see it reported on the Aero-NUT-Network?

Yopu can bet the Awards that Steve got with his Hawks won't be reported .It
wasn't last year and besides who ever said zoom was fair and unbiased ...except
him?? LOL!! As far as I'm concerned he didn't report my induction to the EAA
Hall of Fame so you gotta know this won't be mentioned. I'm in the same boat as
Tim Kerns and a few others ...we don't exist except when he needs to beat up on
someone :-)

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

nauga

April 23rd 04, 12:15 AM

Capt.Doug wrote:

> Mr. Kern will be labeled as a disgruntled former
> employee and his testimony will be discounted by Zoom's
> lawyer.

Seems like he'd have to look pretty hard to find a
gruntled former employee.

Cynic though I am, I am confident that Mooz's testimony
would stand by itself, as it has in the past.

Dave 'self-incriminating' Hyde

RobertR237

April 23rd 04, 02:01 AM

>>
>>That sounds like some very interesting and important aviation news...did
>anyone
>>see it reported on the Aero-NUT-Network?
>
>
>Yopu can bet the Awards that Steve got with his Hawks won't be reported .It
>wasn't last year and besides who ever said zoom was fair and unbiased
>...except
>him?? LOL!! As far as I'm concerned he didn't report my induction to the EAA
>Hall of Fame so you gotta know this won't be mentioned. I'm in the same boat
>as
>Tim Kerns and a few others ...we don't exist except when he needs to beat up
>on
>someone :-)
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
>
>
>

That's OK Chuck, You never needed to be reported by anything Zoom has an
association with, they aren't really a news source anyway. It does appear that
the really important sources recognize your contribution and that is all that
matters.

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Frank Hitlaw

April 23rd 04, 08:23 AM

ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote in message >...
> In article t>, Jerry Springer
> says...
> >>
> >Hay Chuck I see a couple CGS Hawks won awards
> on Richard Riellys new duties as a new parent :-) I really wished zoom would
> have had the guts to come to the UL area so I could have captured him but
> neither he or jaun showed up.I wonder if all who saw him and didn't say anything
> to the security people or the police are guilty of somehing?
> Like maybe bad judgement???
>
> All in all the numbers of people were down at least in the UL area but the ones
> that were there were serious buyers and not tire kickers.
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Chuck;

You mean that juan confirmed his cowardness by not showing up to
check your truck title. Maybe he was hiding behind his B.S. buddy
zzzzooom, betcha zzzooms ass is chafed from juan kissing it.
Congrats on the personal award from Kitplanes and the other awards
for the Hawk. You certainly deserve that and more, you are the man.
By the way if you run into El Pollo Loco tell him his assistant
chicken thief said hi.
Frank;

Model Flyer

April 23rd 04, 02:12 PM

"Rich Ahrens" > wrote in message
isi.com...
> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>
> > Maybe he'll get a contempt of Court charge and spend some time
with Bubba in the
> > slammer. Now that would be justice !!
>
> Hey! What did Bubba ever do to deserve that kind of abuse?

Naa, it's just part of the system. Bubba gets an extra six months or
a week with the Zoomer.:-)

--
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe.
/
don't bother me with insignificiant nonsence such as spelling,
I don't care if it spelt properly
/
Sometimes I fly and sometimes I just dream about it.
:-)

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 23rd 04, 10:01 PM

In article >, Frank Hitlaw
says...
> Chuck;
>
> You mean that juan confirmed his cowardness by not showing up to
>check your truck title. Maybe he was hiding behind his B.S. buddy
>zzzzooom, betcha zzzooms ass is chafed from juan kissing it.
> Congrats on the personal award from Kitplanes and the other awards
>for the Hawk. You certainly deserve that and more, you are the man.
> By the way if you run into El Pollo Loco tell him his assistant
>chicken thief said hi.
> Frank;

I had my zoom free zone signs up as usual and he stayed away it's kinda like a
crucifix to Dracula or garlic to the Wolfman LOL!!! Yeah I had my title for the
truck and a $100 bill to bet jaun that it was mine . But like zoom he lacks the
courage of his convictions to bet with me. Both of them would rather imply
something than prove it. Phonies one and all. Hell Kerns believed me and I
didn't have to show him :-) Funny thing was Tim had no idea of how jaun
conducted himself on RAH he said jaun acts like a gentleman in person. So I
guess he only has the jajko's when he's on the net in his real persona...a phony
and a toady for zoom. Off RAH he reverts to his secret identity mild mannered
reporter for the zoom net....

See ya

Chuck S aka "el Pollo Loco" RAH-15/1 ret

B2431

April 24th 04, 12:40 AM

>From: ChuckSlusarczyk

>I had my zoom free zone signs up as usual and he stayed away it's kinda like
>a
>crucifix to Dracula or garlic to the Wolfman LOL!!!

Aww, gee, you shouldn'ta-hadn'ta done that. Now zoom will have to sue ya over
that sign. <g> I'd like to see his lawyer's reaction to that.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 24th 04, 12:39 PM

As promised I said I would report any updates to the George Conn /zoom claims
that I was personally responsible for his Judgement against the old CGS Aviation
inc.
While I was at SnF a hearing was held and for the 2nd time a Judge ruled in my
favor and said that Conn cannot hold me personally responsible for his
judgement. I guess they have one more slim appeal left but they can't hold me
accountable. After that is exhausted and that is if they even choose to appeal,
I can send my letters warning zoom ,conn, jaun and anyone else who says I
stiffed conn that they are open for a lawsuit. I've never sued anybody in my
whole life but after what I've been through with zoom I wouldn't have any qualms
about telling them to "govern yourself accordingly" and that "I'm calling my
attorney in the morning" and last but not least "I'll see you in an Ohio court"
!! :-)

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 24th 04, 12:44 PM

In article >, B2431 says...
>Aww, gee, you shouldn'ta-hadn'ta done that. Now zoom will have to sue ya over
>that sign. <g> I'd like to see his lawyer's reaction to that.

Too bad I didn't have time to make my ANN Free zone signs and hang them next to
the others.Something else to take a photo of . Wonder if I'll get the worst
booth of the show award from zoom this year or if he'll just three-pete on the
Bozo award. LOL!!

I heard that zoomy is now claiming 2000 types flown WOW!! What a guy .

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

Stealth Pilot

April 24th 04, 01:49 PM

On 24 Apr 2004 04:39:14 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>
>As promised I said I would report any updates to the George Conn /zoom claims
>that I was personally responsible for his Judgement against the old CGS Aviation
>inc.
>While I was at SnF a hearing was held and for the 2nd time a Judge ruled in my
>favor and said that Conn cannot hold me personally responsible for his
>judgement. I guess they have one more slim appeal left but they can't hold me
>accountable. After that is exhausted and that is if they even choose to appeal,
>I can send my letters warning zoom ,conn, jaun and anyone else who says I
>stiffed conn that they are open for a lawsuit. I've never sued anybody in my
>whole life but after what I've been through with zoom I wouldn't have any qualms
>about telling them to "govern yourself accordingly" and that "I'm calling my
>attorney in the morning" and last but not least "I'll see you in an Ohio court"
>!! :-)
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

Chuck dont let them get under your skin.

The other day I looked up from some maintenance and there taxying in
was a for real CGS Hawk. the Pilot loves it! had great pleasure
telling him that he flew an icon of the ultralight movement, the very
first properly stress analysed ultralight in the world. puffed his
chest up quite a bit I can tell you.

I've yet to see anything designed by the old Zoomer ever take to the
skies.

where it counts the real world votes with el polo loco :-)
Stealth Pilot

RobertR237

April 24th 04, 03:11 PM

>
>I had my zoom free zone signs up as usual and he stayed away it's kinda like
>a
>crucifix to Dracula or garlic to the Wolfman LOL!!! Yeah I had my title for
>the
>truck and a $100 bill to bet jaun that it was mine . But like zoom he lacks
>the
>courage of his convictions to bet with me. Both of them would rather imply
>something than prove it. Phonies one and all. Hell Kerns believed me and I
>didn't have to show him :-) Funny thing was Tim had no idea of how jaun
>conducted himself on RAH he said jaun acts like a gentleman in person. So I
>guess he only has the jajko's when he's on the net in his real persona...a
>phony
>and a toady for zoom. Off RAH he reverts to his secret identity mild mannered
>reporter for the zoom net....
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S aka "el Pollo Loco" RAH-15/1 ret
>
>

Now, now, Chuck...give Jaun some credit. He is an idiot but not a complete
fool, he knows that if he acted in person like he does on RAH, he would get his
but kicked.

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 24th 04, 04:31 PM

In article >, Stealth Pilot says...
>Chuck dont let them get under your skin.

They don't get under my skin as much as what they tried to do to my good name
,reputation and earnings. Fortunately all that is slowly turning around . But I
heard about it at SnF this year when a guy said "I read in a magazine a while
back that you had didn't treat some customers right". Luckly some other Hawk
owners were there to hear it and between them and between the 3 of us we
informed the guy about zoom . I hope he goes to John O's zoomed web site as we
instructed him for more of the story.

>
>The other day I looked up from some maintenance and there taxying in
>was a for real CGS Hawk. the Pilot loves it! had great pleasure
>telling him that he flew an icon of the ultralight movement, the very
>first properly stress analysed ultralight in the world. puffed his
>chest up quite a bit I can tell you.

Nice to hear if I knew who it was I'd send him a couple of "It's hard to be
Humble when you own a Hawk" bumper stickers. I ought to send you some too!! :-)

>
>I've yet to see anything designed by the old Zoomer ever take to the
>skies.

True enough guys like him can only wait until someone else accomplishes
something, then by some percieved gift they feel they can critique the work of
others.Go figger.

>
>where it counts the real world votes with el polo loco :-)

Thank you kindly as I said many times to myself at SnF "it's good to have
friends" and still is.

>Stealth Pilot

see ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret aka "el pollo loco" aka Capt. Shakey Jake' aka Charles
Joseph Robert Slusarczyk ,esq, MD mighty dandy, better known as the fac totem
but still better known as Hoowwwwwlllll da wolf!!

Paul Anton

April 24th 04, 06:04 PM

Then all he'll need is Courtney and his own shotgun.

>
> Next thing you know, Zoom will file a motion that he and Courtney Love are
> friends. hehe
>
>

Frank Hitlaw

April 26th 04, 12:19 AM

ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote in message >...
> In article >, B2431 says...
> >Aww, gee, you shouldn'ta-hadn'ta done that. Now zoom will have to sue ya over
> >that sign. <g> I'd like to see his lawyer's reaction to that.
>
> Too bad I didn't have time to make my ANN Free zone signs and hang them next to
> the others.Something else to take a photo of . Wonder if I'll get the worst
> booth of the show award from zoom this year or if he'll just three-pete on the
> Bozo award. LOL!!
>
> I heard that zoomy is now claiming 2000 types flown WOW!! What a guy .
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

Chuckles;

2000 different types and still the same 13000 hours he had when he
claimed that he flew 750 models, I stand by the bucket of hair quote.
Frank "I once held the controls of a 747-300" Hitlaw

B2431

April 26th 04, 10:43 AM

>From: (Frank Hitlaw)

> Frank "I once held the controls of a 747-300" Hitlaw

Big deal, I once touched a B-17. I think I logged an entire minute.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 26th 04, 12:08 PM

In article >, B2431 says...
>
>>From: (Frank Hitlaw)
>
>
>> Frank "I once held the controls of a 747-300" Hitlaw
>
>Big deal, I once touched a B-17. I think I logged an entire minute.

OH YEAH!!
Well I got rides in:

Ryan STA owned by Jack Vanalak
P-51 Mustang "Cripes a Mighty"
B-25 Mitchel 2 times once as tail gunner, Briefing Time and Executive Suite
TBM Avenger no name owned by Doc Dieter
SNJ no name owned by Jack Vanalak
EAA B-17 and actually made a left turn and hand wound the left gear down for a
one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many missions
performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!

See ya

Chuck S

Russell Kent

April 26th 04, 06:22 PM

Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> If Zoom protested, it would look MIGHTY strange to the judge...refusing to
> have one of his own witnesses [Tim Kern] testify under oath.

Ron,
Do keep us informed. I would pay good money (like airfare!) to be in the
court gallery during the case. :-)

Russell Kent

B2431

April 27th 04, 01:13 AM

>From: ChuckSlusarczyk
>
>In article >, B2431 says...
>>
>>>From: (Frank Hitlaw)
>>
>>
>>> Frank "I once held the controls of a 747-300" Hitlaw
>>
>>Big deal, I once touched a B-17. I think I logged an entire minute.
>
>
>OH YEAH!!
>Well I got rides in:
>
>Ryan STA owned by Jack Vanalak
>P-51 Mustang "Cripes a Mighty"
>B-25 Mitchel 2 times once as tail gunner, Briefing Time and Executive Suite
>TBM Avenger no name owned by Doc Dieter
>SNJ no name owned by Jack Vanalak
>EAA B-17 and actually made a left turn and hand wound the left gear down for
>a
>one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
>T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
>So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many missions
>performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S

Chuck, you'll never make it as a writer unless you get a bigger shovel.

"EAA B-17 and actually made a left turn and hand wound the left gear down for a
one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show."

actually means:

"I tested the control forces required to make a standard turn on a B-17 and
saved the day by hand cranking down the landing gear on final approach."

If I were writing a performance report on you I could make the above sound like
you could walk on water.

As an aside if you can ever get a ride in a Ju-52 I think you will enjoy it. I
got a couple of rides in Martin Caidin's in 1978.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Harry K

April 27th 04, 03:04 AM

ChuckSlusarczyk > wrote in message >...
> In article >, B2431 says...
> >
> >>From: (Frank Hitlaw)
> >
> >
> >> Frank "I once held the controls of a 747-300" Hitlaw
> >
> >Big deal, I once touched a B-17. I think I logged an entire minute.
>
>
> OH YEAH!!
> Well I got rides in:
>
> Ryan STA owned by Jack Vanalak
> P-51 Mustang "Cripes a Mighty"
> B-25 Mitchel 2 times once as tail gunner, Briefing Time and Executive Suite
> TBM Avenger no name owned by Doc Dieter
> SNJ no name owned by Jack Vanalak
> EAA B-17 and actually made a left turn and hand wound the left gear down for a
> one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
> T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
> So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many missions
> performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck S

Well I saw a DC3 crash. Can I count that as a mission??

Harry K

John

April 27th 04, 10:33 AM

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

> In article >, Harry K
> says...
>>> one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
>>> T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
>>> So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many
>>> missions performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!
>>>
>>> See ya
>>>
>>> Chuck S
>>
>>Well I saw a DC3 crash. Can I count that as a mission??
>>
>>Harry K
>
> If that were zoom he would say "HE survived a crash landing in a DC-3 and
> with absolute skill and resolve brought it in. Thereby saving a plane load
> of women ,Nuns and the vice President Oh!! and a couple of famous movie
> stars as well . In addition to fighting off attacks by terrorists armed
> with shoulder fired missles and controlling pitch by yelling at the
> passengers to run back and forth in the cabin...
>
> I'd say you could count it as a zoom style mission,certainly, he would and
> has:-)
>
> See ya
>
> Chuck (never flew in a DC-3 but I got 300 hrs watching them) S
If I remember correctly I flew in a DC-3 from Fairbanks to Adak, Ak when I
was in the Nav They told us of the DC-3's that crashed into the mountains
at the end of the island trying to make it in. So I guess I must have been
on many harrowing missions with near loss of life ;-)
John
"Will the last person leaving Adak please turn out the lights!" --sign in
Adak passenger terminal circa 1975.

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 27th 04, 11:45 AM

In article >, Harry K says...
>> one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
>> T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
>> So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many missions
>> performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!
>>
>> See ya
>>
>> Chuck S
>
>Well I saw a DC3 crash. Can I count that as a mission??
>
>Harry K

If that were zoom he would say "HE survived a crash landing in a DC-3 and with
absolute skill and resolve brought it in. Thereby saving a plane load of women
,Nuns and the vice President Oh!! and a couple of famous movie stars as well .
In addition to fighting off attacks by terrorists armed with shoulder fired
missles and controlling pitch by yelling at the passengers to run back and forth
in the cabin...

I'd say you could count it as a zoom style mission,certainly, he would and
has:-)

See ya

Chuck (never flew in a DC-3 but I got 300 hrs watching them) S

ChuckSlusarczyk

April 27th 04, 11:49 AM

In article >, B2431 says...
>Chuck, you'll never make it as a writer unless you get a bigger shovel.
>
>"EAA B-17 and actually made a left turn and hand wound the left gear down for a
>one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show."
>
>actually means:
>
>"I tested the control forces required to make a standard turn on a B-17 and
>saved the day by hand cranking down the landing gear on final approach."
>
>If I were writing a performance report on you I could make the above sound like
>you could walk on water.
>
>As an aside if you can ever get a ride in a Ju-52 I think you will enjoy it. I
>got a couple of rides in Martin Caidin's in 1978.
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Gee Dan you got to fly Iron Annie? too cool!! I've seen it fly and talked to
Caidin once years ago and read a lot of his books .So I guess he and I are
lifelong friends LOL!! and you got time in type :-)

See ya

Chuck S

B2431

April 27th 04, 04:58 PM

>From: ChuckSlusarczyk

>>
>>As an aside if you can ever get a ride in a Ju-52 I think you will enjoy it.
>I
>>got a couple of rides in Martin Caidin's in 1978.
>>
>>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>Gee Dan you got to fly Iron Annie? too cool!! I've seen it fly and talked to
>Caidin once years ago and read a lot of his books .So I guess he and I are
>lifelong friends LOL!! and you got time in type :-)
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck S

If you are interested I can scan some of the pics I took with my Instamatic.
Pete Sherman's P-38 and some trainer (can't remember the type) flew formation
with us.

Caidin's sense of humour was perverse. Under the right wing was a dollar panel
labeled "nuclear weapons stowage." His "not FAA certified" warning was a sign
in Hollyweird German ending with "und we open zi bottle und poppen zi corken"
if it landed safely.

If memory serve Lufthansa has his airplane now.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[email protected]

April 27th 04, 06:02 PM

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:33:42 +0000, John > wrote:

>> Chuck (never flew in a DC-3 but I got 300 hrs watching them) S

I can actually add to this conversation. My father flew for Crown
Cork and Seal when I was a kid and their corporate airplane was a
DC-3. I got many rides in that airplane, often in the jumpseat behind
the pilots and sometimes sitting in the right seat where I got to
lower the flaps and drop the gear upon command. Also got to adjust
the cowl flaps but never could figure out how to do that (odd
cylindrical switch, one for each engine) and Dad had to lean over and
do it himself.

When I was taking flying lessons from him, he asked if I wanted to fly
the DC-3. I forget how many hours I'd accumulated by then but it was
probably around 20 because I only reached 25 before college
interrupted my training.

We had gone flying in a Piper Apache which I got to fly. It wasn't
that much different from flying the 172 in that you just pushed the
throttles to the end of their travel and lifted off at the appropriate
speed. So I had a whole hour in twins when the offer was made. I was
about 17 years old.

My father of course started the engines. It was the usual routine for
radials, but it seemed fiendishly complicated. It involved priming
and turning the engine through three blades and flicking on the
magnetos and then playing with the mixture while playing with the
throttle. The engines rumbled to life one cylinder at a time,
belching clouds of smoke and finally settling down to a whuffing
chuffing rumble.

I was instructed in how to taxi and Dad released the brakes. I
advanced the throttles cautiously and we eased forward. Dad handled
the radio, contacting ground and got taxi clearance. I remembered to
add throttle to the outside engine to help us around corners. One of
the tricks my father taught me was to lock the tailwheel down once we
were pointed generally straight down the taxiway. We left it locked
until we began to edge toward one side or the other, then unlocked,
straightened out and relocked it.

I'm pretty sure my father ran through the engine runnup this time, but
I probably read the checklist for him while he either set or checked
the various items.

Engine runnup was impressive with those 1200 horsepower engines
roaring away and the prop swinging by just inches from the fuselage.

I was waiting for further instructions once we got clearance to
takeoff, but my father just told me to line up on the runway so I
released the brakes and we trundled out and I got it lined up.

I looked at my father, expecting him to say something but he just said
"let's go." Remember, up to that time I had not flown anything more
powerful than a 172 or an Apache, neither of which had engines that
developed over 150 hp. Takeoff for those airplanes was throttle up
all the way, as far as you could push it. Having heard no
instructions as to what throttle setting to use, and hearing him say
"let's go", I grabbed those two big throttles and pushed them WAY up.

The two engines responded with an extremely loud bellowing and we
began to move forward. My father, moving extremely quickly, grabbed
the throttles and reduced power to the usual takeoff setting while I
concentrated on keeping the airplane srtaight with the rudder.
"Y'know you can overboost the engines", he said forcefully. "Well no,
I didn't know because you didn't tell me where to set them." I
responded while pulling back on the column to begin climbing out.

"Well you can" he said again, this time more quietly and began to tell
me what airspeeds and what compass heading he wanted me to fly. We
were headed to Idlewild to pickup a part for the airplane so we set
course for that airport.

My recollection is that the control forces were really hard for me to
manage, being a skinny 17 year old. I don't recall trimming any,
perhaps my father did that for me.

I did not land it at Idlewild or North Philadelphia for the return
trip so I can't claim that.

But I did do the takeoff. My rememberance is that it was like flying
a house. It was massive and the control forces very high. It was
lumbering and slow to respond to any input.

A few years later the company bought a DeHaviland DH 125. That
airplane I definately did NOT get to fly.

Corky Scott

Shiver Me Timbers

April 27th 04, 07:24 PM

> > wrote:

> My father flew for Crown Cork and Seal

> Corky Scott

So is that where you got your nickname from..... Corky???

[email protected]

April 27th 04, 08:17 PM

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:24:49 GMT, Shiver Me Timbers
> wrote:

>> > wrote:
>
>> My father flew for Crown Cork and Seal
>
>> Corky Scott
>
>So is that where you got your nickname from..... Corky???

Sounds plausable but no. I got the nickname as a kid, at my father's
instigation but it's a long story.

Corky Scott

nauga

April 28th 04, 12:31 AM

Harry K wrote...

> Well I saw a DC3 crash. Can I count that as a mission??

No, but if someone asked you what happened, that would be
"tasked by the FAA/NTSB with performing the initial
investigation."

Dave 'ibid' Hyde

Big John

April 28th 04, 03:21 AM

Chuck

You never missed anything :o)

Go get in a bread truck and drive it around the block.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````
On 27 Apr 2004 03:45:41 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

----clip----

Chuck (never flew in a DC-3 but I got 300 hrs watching them) S

Harry K

April 28th 04, 03:43 AM

John > wrote in message >...
> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>
> > In article >, Harry K
> > says...
> >>> one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
> >>> T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
> >>> So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many
> >>> missions performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!
> >>>
> >>> See ya
> >>>
> >>> Chuck S
> >>
> >>Well I saw a DC3 crash. Can I count that as a mission??
> >>
> >>Harry K
> >
> > If that were zoom he would say "HE survived a crash landing in a DC-3 and
> > with absolute skill and resolve brought it in. Thereby saving a plane load
> > of women ,Nuns and the vice President Oh!! and a couple of famous movie
> > stars as well . In addition to fighting off attacks by terrorists armed
> > with shoulder fired missles and controlling pitch by yelling at the
> > passengers to run back and forth in the cabin...
> >
> > I'd say you could count it as a zoom style mission,certainly, he would and
> > has:-)
> >
> > See ya
> >
> > Chuck (never flew in a DC-3 but I got 300 hrs watching them) S
> If I remember correctly I flew in a DC-3 from Fairbanks to Adak, Ak when I
> was in the Nav They told us of the DC-3's that crashed into the mountains
> at the end of the island trying to make it in. So I guess I must have been
> on many harrowing missions with near loss of life ;-)
> John
> "Will the last person leaving Adak please turn out the lights!" --sign in
> Adak passenger terminal circa 1975.

Ouch, that brings on unpleasant memories; Spring 1956, batch of us
scheduled from Anchorage to Shemya. One seat left so me and buddy
drew. I won, he lost big time, next flight plowed in somewhere on the
chain. Wonder if that isn't the one at ADAK.

Harry K

John

April 28th 04, 07:45 AM

Harry K wrote:

> John > wrote in message
> >...
>> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>>
>> > In article >, Harry K
>> > says...
>> >>> one wheel approach at Cleveland Air Show.
>> >>> T-6 Owned by the same guy that owned the P-51 who's name escapes me.
>> >>> So using zoomlogic I've got time in numerous warbirds and flew many
>> >>> missions performing in Airshows. I should be a writer LOL!!!
>> >>>
>> >>> See ya
>> >>>
>> >>> Chuck S
>> >>
>> >>Well I saw a DC3 crash. Can I count that as a mission??
>> >>
>> >>Harry K
>> >
>> > If that were zoom he would say "HE survived a crash landing in a DC-3
>> > and with absolute skill and resolve brought it in. Thereby saving a
>> > plane load of women ,Nuns and the vice President Oh!! and a couple of
>> > famous movie stars as well . In addition to fighting off attacks by
>> > terrorists armed with shoulder fired missles and controlling pitch by
>> > yelling at the passengers to run back and forth in the cabin...
>> >
>> > I'd say you could count it as a zoom style mission,certainly, he would
>> > and
>> > has:-)
>> >
>> > See ya
>> >
>> > Chuck (never flew in a DC-3 but I got 300 hrs watching them) S
>> If I remember correctly I flew in a DC-3 from Fairbanks to Adak, Ak when
>> I was in the Nav They told us of the DC-3's that crashed into the
>> mountains at the end of the island trying to make it in. So I guess I
>> must have been on many harrowing missions with near loss of life ;-)
>> John
>> "Will the last person leaving Adak please turn out the lights!" --sign in
>> Adak passenger terminal circa 1975.
>
> Ouch, that brings on unpleasant memories; Spring 1956, batch of us
> scheduled from Anchorage to Shemya. One seat left so me and buddy
> drew. I won, he lost big time, next flight plowed in somewhere on the
> chain. Wonder if that isn't the one at ADAK.
>
> Harry K
Yea could be, everytime you fly in they point out the reckage on the side of
the mountain which they never removed the wreck!
John