Trailer Chains - To Cross of Not to Cross - That is the Question [Archive]

Vaughn

May 3rd 14, 01:00 AM

On 5/2/2014 6:21 PM, JohnDeRosa wrote:
> And while you are at it, anyone have a great crazy "trailer came off the ball" story to share? You first.

Well yes I do, but fortunately not a "glider trailer came off the ball"
story.

I was driving a truck pulling a heavy compressor trailer down a city
street when I casually looked to the right and saw a familiar trailer
trying to pass me! There was nothing I could do but drive next to it so
my truck would at least limit it's excursions to the left. The thing
finally slowed down by itself and followed the slant in the road toward
the curb. When it finally grazed the curb, it slowed down and finally
perfectly parked itself! I hooked it up (properly this time) and drove
off as if nothing had happened. (Except for my knees knocking.) Nobody
but me saw it, and I didn't tell, so I got to keep my job.

Motto: Always "preflight" your trailer before driving off.

Papa3[_2_]

May 3rd 14, 01:25 AM

I was in a rush to get to the airport on a good day. Hooked the trailer up at the barn where it lives (up the hill from the airport) and drove off. First bump I hit, I heard the coupler disengage. I had in fact crossed the chains, and they worked as advertised in your link. The trailer tongue was hung up in the "basket", and it swung gently fore and aft with very little side-to-side motion. The automatic brake cable also worked. I was left with a small dent in the mini-van bumper and a slightly elevated heart rate. The guy who taught me to tow trailers was a WW2 truck driver who claimed that crossing the chains was "critical". I don't know that my outcome would have been much worse if the chains hadn't been crossed, but it sure seemed to work well when I inadvertently tested out the theory .

Larry[_8_]

May 3rd 14, 04:32 AM

This was over 30 years ago. I was towing a trailer behind a school
bus. The bus had been in an accident and the catch for the trailer
hitch was not catching. This was one of those hitches that you put on
the ball and then screw down from the top to tighten to the ball. At
one point I looked up in the mirror to see the trailer flipping over
in the air. The trailer had come off the hitch, the hitch had dug
into the asphalt and the road and had flipped up and did a front back
360. It landed in the ditch. It landed uprigt.This being Minnesota
in the Winter the ditch was full of snow. It appeared OK so we went
to the nearby farmer and borrowed a set of chains to pull it out of
the ditch. The trailer was fine. We reattached to the bus and
continued on our way, stopping every 5 miles to make sure the hitch
was still attached firmly. I do not know if the chains were crossed
or if the chains were just to long and did not cradle the hitch when
it came off. I do recall the chains were broken.

On Fri, 2 May 2014 15:21:47 -0700 (PDT), JohnDeRosa
> wrote:

>I have been told that crossing your trailer safety chains is the right thing to do. Something about if the coupler comes off the ball, the trailer will be limited in its wayward travel. Sounds like something for Mythbusters to figure out. Yes or no, what say you?
>
>And while you are at it, anyone have a great crazy "trailer came off the ball" story to share? You first.
>
>- John

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

BobW

May 3rd 14, 05:14 AM

On 5/2/2014 4:21 PM, JohnDeRosa wrote:
> I have been told that crossing your trailer safety chains is the right
> thing to do. Something about if the coupler comes off the ball, the
> trailer will be limited in its wayward travel. Sounds like something for
> Mythbusters to figure out. Yes or no, what say you?
>
> And while you are at it, anyone have a great crazy "trailer came off the
> ball" story to share? You first.
>
> - John
>

Way back when - when I first began towing trailers - someone (my old man?)
told me to cross the chains, and why (to minimize the chances of "pole
vaulting")...it made sense to me, so - chains permitting - I've always crossed
'em. Happily, I've never tested the reasoning.

That said, once when retrieving someone - their vehicle pulling a factory
PIK-20 trailer - less than two miles from the airport & still in town, someone
pulled up beside me waving frantically and pointing behind me. I pulled over
to figure out why. When I pre-flighted the (ready to go [almost!]) trailer, I
missed catching the fact the rear door wasn't latched. It'd flopped open and
was skating raucously on the metal brackets that support the door when the
fuselage rests on it for rigging. Hadn't heard a thing in the cushy 5 Series
BMW! I'd'a 'fessed up if asked...but I wasn't asked.

That's prolly in my top 3 bozo trailer moves...for #1, it'll take more than
RAS to pull it outta me. (It wasn't a glider trailer but...kids, LISTEN to
those little voices in your heads!)

Bob - a decade later & it still gives me the shakes - W.

Z Goudie[_2_]

May 3rd 14, 09:48 AM

At 04:14 03 May 2014, BobW wrote:

>That said, once when retrieving someone - their vehicle pulling a factory

>PIK-20 trailer - less than two miles from the airport & still in town,
>someone
>pulled up beside me waving frantically and pointing behind me. I pulled
>over
>to figure out why. When I pre-flighted the (ready to go [almost!])
trailer,
>I
>missed catching the fact the rear door wasn't latched. It'd flopped open
>and
>was skating raucously on the metal brackets that support the door when the

>fuselage rests on it for rigging.

Car and trailer pulled away from traffic lights only to have someone come
up alongside gesticulating wildly.
The trailer door was open and the Dart fuselage was lying on it's side back
at the lights....

son_of_flubber

May 3rd 14, 02:03 PM

Cross chains... okay. This tidbit should replace one of those un-useful questions on the written test for aspiring glider pilots.

I've added it to my list '1000 and 1 important facts that you should hope to stumble upon before you need them'.

As to premature termination of trailering, there is sure to be a guy out there who puts a 50 mm ball on his truck and then one day rents a U-haul trailer with a worn hitch. Here's hoping that he gets the word about crossing chains.

Bill D

May 3rd 14, 03:51 PM

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:03:01 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Cross chains... okay. This tidbit should replace one of those un-useful questions on the written test for aspiring glider pilots.
>
>
>
> I've added it to my list '1000 and 1 important facts that you should hope to stumble upon before you need them'.
>
>
>
> As to premature termination of trailering, there is sure to be a guy out there who puts a 50 mm ball on his truck and then one day rents a U-haul trailer with a worn hitch. Here's hoping that he gets the word about crossing chains.

Story (true)

A volunteer picked up a new club glider in a distant city. The trailer hitch seemed loose on the ball - but what the heck, the other club members wanted to see their new glider so haste was the order of the day.

When the glider and trailer miraculously arrived intact, it was found the tow truck had a 1 7/8" ball and the trailer had a 2" hitch which was now severely damaged. The trailer tower said he didn't know trailer balls came in different sizes and he thought the banging noises were "normal". The safety chains had made the trip neatly wrapped around the tow bar where they were "out of the way".

JohnDeRosa

May 4th 14, 12:14 AM

My turn.

Coming back from "out west" to Chicago with trailer in tow, I also had a PTT a.k.a. premature termination of towing-the-trailer. I was in mid-town Omaha, in four lanes of rush hour traffic. AND THEN BANG!

It really didn't occur to me until later, as I only had time to react, that the trailer had departed the ball. All I knew was that SOEMTHING WAS WRONG! I heard bang-pause-bang-pause and the truck being pulled side to side.

My mate was in the lead and told me later that in his rear view mirror the trailer was seen repeatedly going to the left and right of my truck - basically it kept trying to change lanes - and cars dodging my trailer to get out of the way.

Luckily I was not in a middle lane or crossing a bridge as something would have been hit. I was in the left lane ("fast" lane for you UK-ers), came off the gas with very light braking and successfully got the trailer off to the side. We quickly got the trailer back on the ball and just as quickly got off the highway.

The cause of this mayhem was found to be a newly installed coupling in which the part the latches under the ball wasn't tight enough. I had hit (I don't remember this) a series of bumps that had dislodged the coupler. Note that this was after driving from Chicago to Utah and half the way back.

The only real damage (aside from excessive adrenalin and mucho pride) was the missing - i.e. torn off at the root - trailer lights wiring. We were back on the road within 60 minutes. Good to have spare parts.

And good that my chains were crossed ... fingers too for the rest of the way home.

- John

son_of_flubber

May 4th 14, 04:18 AM

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:14:14 PM UTC-4, JohnDeRosa wrote:

> My mate was in the lead and told me later that in his rear view mirror the trailer was seen repeatedly going to the left and right of my truck - basically it kept trying to change lanes - and cars dodging my trailer to get out of the way.

Gotta tow my trailer next week, so this topic has got me thinking.

I buy that crossed chains are better, but it strikes me that crossed chains are not symmetrical and that the dismounted trailer will probably not track stable and straight (as John recounts).

I wonder if it might work better to join the left and right chains with a perpendicular link under the hitch to achieve symmetry? Picture an H-shape chain arrangement.

I think I will experiment and see how my trailer tows/drags on just the chains (slowly and in a parking lot).

Eric Greenwell[_4_]

May 4th 14, 05:03 AM

son_of_flubber wrote, On 5/3/2014 8:18 PM:
> On Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:14:14 PM UTC-4, JohnDeRosa wrote:
>
>> My mate was in the lead and told me later that in his rear view
>> mirror the trailer was seen repeatedly going to the left and right
>> of my truck - basically it kept trying to change lanes - and cars
>> dodging my trailer to get out of the way.
>
> Gotta tow my trailer next week, so this topic has got me thinking.
>
> I buy that crossed chains are better, but it strikes me that crossed
> chains are not symmetrical and that the dismounted trailer will
> probably not track stable and straight (as John recounts).
>
> I wonder if it might work better to join the left and right chains
> with a perpendicular link under the hitch to achieve symmetry?
> Picture an H-shape chain arrangement.
>
> I think I will experiment and see how my trailer tows/drags on just
> the chains (slowly and in a parking lot).

I doubt that would make any difference. The huge problem is the trailer
is no longer connected to the ball, and it's the ball that constrains
the tongue so following directly behind the tow vehicle. With the tongue
free to move side to side and steer the trailer, the dynamics are very
different. My guess: cross the chains, and shorten them as much as possible.

Even better, also do this: every time you hook up, carefully check the
ball and it's attachment, check the coupler for proper functioning, and
connect the chains and lights. And then double-check.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

Chris Rollings[_2_]

May 4th 14, 08:57 AM

At 08:48 03 May 2014, Z Goudie wrote:
>At 04:14 03 May 2014, BobW wrote:
>
>>That said, once when retrieving someone - their vehicle pulling a
factory
>
>>PIK-20 trailer - less than two miles from the airport & still in town,
>>someone
>>pulled up beside me waving frantically and pointing behind me. I pulled
>>over
>>to figure out why. When I pre-flighted the (ready to go [almost!])
>trailer,
>>I
>>missed catching the fact the rear door wasn't latched. It'd flopped open
>>and
>>was skating raucously on the metal brackets that support the door when
the
>
>>fuselage rests on it for rigging.
>
>Car and trailer pulled away from traffic lights only to have someone come
>up alongside gesticulating wildly.
>The trailer door was open and the Dart fuselage was lying on it's side
back
>at the lights....

Brennig James on the North Circular (London) in the late 1960's.

I sort of witnessed a similar event on my first ever arrival at Nypsfield
in 1974. I was driving up the hill from Stroud, with my K6e trailer on the
back, when, near the top of the hill, I saw a Kestrel fusilage leaning
against the grass bank by the side of the road. Comp number 29, my friend
John Glossop. I assumed he had arrived a day early for the competition and
landed out on a practice flight. A couple of minutes later I drove in the
airfield gate and saw a trailer in front of me, doors open, no fusilage
inside and John Glossop and a Nypsfield club member (who had noticed the
problem when John stopped to ask directions for parking) walking towards
the back of the trailer. John had apparently thought that the other guy
was pulling his leg, when he gopt to the back of the trailer and found it
open and no fusilage, the expression on his face was one I remeber to this
day. The only damage was a nbroken rudder and Slingsbys got a new one to
him next morning, he was only a bit late launching on the task.
>
>
>

Andy[_1_]

May 4th 14, 03:12 PM

On Friday, May 2, 2014 3:21:47 PM UTC-7, JohnDeRosa wrote:
> I have been told that crossing your trailer safety chains is the right thing to do. Something about if the coupler comes off the ball, the trailer will be limited in its wayward travel. Sounds like something for Mythbusters to figure out. Yes or no, what say you?

I don't see how this discussion makes any sense unless it is stated where each end of each chain is attached.

Cobra trailers are delivered to USA with no chains. They only have the standard European emergency brake actuating cable. When I picked up my new glider from the port I took a length of chain. I attached each end of it to each of the bolts that secure the tongue to the trailer floor (redundant attachment to trailer). The front end of the loop is hooked up to one of the tow bar chain eyes with a screw gate link when towing (single point failure). The chain is routed over the top of the trailer jacking wheel attach bracket so it does not drag on the road.

My glider was received shortly after the rash of tow tongue failure reports in USA so I knew the chains had to be attached to the trailer body and not to the tongue itself.

The distance between the trailer axle and the chain attach points is so long on a glider trailer that I doubt it makes any difference to unhook stability exactly where they are attached or whether they are crossed. May be a different story for a short trailer.

Andy

John Carlyle

May 4th 14, 03:24 PM

I have exactly the same setup on my 2000 Cobra. What I do is route the chains coming from the eye-hooks on the trailer through the triangular skid on the bottom of the tow bar, then they go on to the hitch eyes. This crosses the chains, and shortens them enough that that don't drag on the road. As with yourself, I have no idea what will happen if the hitch comes off of the ball.

-John, Q3

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:12:16 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
> I don't see how this discussion makes any sense unless it is stated where each end of each chain is attached.
>
> Cobra trailers are delivered to USA with no chains. They only have the standard European emergency brake actuating cable. When I picked up my new glider from the port I took a length of chain. I attached each end of it to each of the bolts that secure the tongue to the trailer floor (redundant attachment to trailer). The front end of the loop is hooked up to one of the tow bar chain eyes with a screw gate link when towing (single point failure). The chain is routed over the top of the trailer jacking wheel attach bracket so it does not drag on the road.
>
> My glider was received shortly after the rash of tow tongue failure reports in USA so I knew the chains had to be attached to the trailer body and not to the tongue itself.
>
> The distance between the trailer axle and the chain attach points is so long on a glider trailer that I doubt it makes any difference to unhook stability exactly where they are attached or whether they are crossed. May be a different story for a short trailer.
>
> Andy

son_of_flubber

May 4th 14, 03:37 PM

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:12:16 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:

> I attached each end of (the chain) to each of the bolts that secure the tongue to the trailer floor (redundant attachment to trailer). The front end of the loop is hooked up to one of the tow bar chain eyes with a screw gate link when towing (single point failure). The chain is routed over the top of the trailer jacking wheel attach bracket so it does not drag on the road.
..
..
..
> The distance between the trailer axle and the chain attach points is so long on a glider trailer that I doubt it makes any difference to unhook stability exactly where they are attached or whether they are crossed.

Would it be sound to attach the chain to both the trailer floor AND to the front of the tongue? That way the chains might catch a detached tongue AND be redundant for a failed tongue. It might as well keep a completely detached tongue from becoming a hazard to the following traffic.

Here's a gob-smacking picture of non-tubular failed hitch (not my hitch) http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/TDInewguy/Aluma%20Trailer/IMG_1492.jpg

It amazes me that this most simple life-critical structural part would not have a bulletproof safety margin.

Eric Greenwell[_4_]

May 4th 14, 03:40 PM

Andy wrote, On 5/4/2014 7:12 AM:
> On Friday, May 2, 2014 3:21:47 PM UTC-7, JohnDeRosa wrote:
>> I have been told that crossing your trailer safety chains is the
>> right thing to do. Something about if the coupler comes off the
>> ball, the trailer will be limited in its wayward travel. Sounds
>> like something for Mythbusters to figure out. Yes or no, what say
>> you?
>
> I don't see how this discussion makes any sense unless it is stated
> where each end of each chain is attached.
>
> Cobra trailers are delivered to USA with no chains. They only have
> the standard European emergency brake actuating cable. When I picked
> up my new glider from the port I took a length of chain. I attached
> each end of it to each of the bolts that secure the tongue to the
> trailer floor (redundant attachment to trailer). The front end of
> the loop is hooked up to one of the tow bar chain eyes with a screw
> gate link when towing (single point failure). The chain is routed
> over the top of the trailer jacking wheel attach bracket so it does
> not drag on the road.
>
> My glider was received shortly after the rash of tow tongue failure
> reports in USA so I knew the chains had to be attached to the trailer
> body and not to the tongue itself.
>
> The distance between the trailer axle and the chain attach points is
> so long on a glider trailer that I doubt it makes any difference to
> unhook stability exactly where they are attached or whether they are
> crossed. May be a different story for a short trailer.

First, if you think you have a trailer with an inadequate tongue, I
think you should replace it with the correct tongue. Cobra, or perhaps a
dealer, that tell you what tongue your trailer should have. Replacing it
is not hard or expensive.

Second, with the chains connected only to the trailer body, a trailer
that disconnects from the hitch will be far less stable than if the
chains are connected near the coupler.

Third, even if you have the chains connected to the trailer body, you
can have also have the chains connected at the coupler.

There is bolt that holds the coupler to the tongue on my Cobra trailer.
I replaced with with a longer, high strength bolt that captures a chain
link from one chain on the left side, and a link from the other chain on
the right side. I used thick washers between the bolt head (and the bolt
nut on the other side) to help retain the link.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

Andy[_1_]

May 4th 14, 04:56 PM

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 7:40:31 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> First, if you think you have a trailer with an inadequate tongue, I
>
> think you should replace it with the correct tongue. Cobra, or perhaps a
>
> dealer, that tell you what tongue your trailer should have. Replacing it
>
> is not hard or expensive.

***I don't think that. The Cobra tongues that failed were round tube. My trailer has the higher load rated square tube tongue.

>
> Second, with the chains connected only to the trailer body, a trailer
>
> that disconnects from the hitch will be far less stable than if the
>
> chains are connected near the coupler.
>

****Show me the math. The difference in distance from the axle is insignificant. Ontario ministry of transportation says this about chains "Safety chains should be crossed under the tongue to prevent the tongue from dropping to the road should the primary hitch accidentally disconnect." - Nothing to do with trailer stability.

> Third, even if you have the chains connected to the trailer body, you
>
> can have also have the chains connected at the coupler.

Agree, but the only reason for going that is to reduce the amount the trailer will overrun the vehicle when stopping after a disconnect. It won't overrun if the trailer emergency brake activates.

That of course leads to a completely different discussion - Why do Americans insist on chains when the trailer designer did not intend them to be used?

What is done in other parts of the world? - Rely on automatic emergency trailer brake only, or use chains with or without the safety brake cable hooked up?

The following appears to apply in UK -

"Unbraked trailers must have a stout secondary coupling, such as a chain, which is connected securely to the towing vehicle when it is being towed. The secondary coupling must be tight enough to prevent the trailer's tow hitch from hitting the ground if the vehicle becomes uncoupled.

Braked trailers must be fitted with hydraulically damped coupling and auto reverse brakes to give braking efficiencies required by EEC Directive 71/320. All wheels must be braked. Braked trailers must be fitted with a breakaway cable. This must be attached to the towing vehicle in such a manner so that, should the trailer become detached, the breakaway cable will operate the trailer's brakes."

Andy

Morgans[_2_]

May 5th 14, 02:26 AM

"JohnDeRosa" > wrote in message
...
> I have been told that crossing your trailer safety chains is the right
> thing to do. Something about if the coupler comes off the ball, the
> trailer will be limited in its wayward travel. Sounds like something for
> Mythbusters to figure out. Yes or no, what say you?
>
> And while you are at it, anyone have a great crazy "trailer came off the
> ball" story to share? You first.
>
> - John
>
The biggest reason to cross is to keep the tension on the chains equal while
turning sharp, especially.

When the chains are not crossed, if you are turning left, the attach points
on the left side of the trailer and the left side of the hitch are both
getting closer to each other. At the same time, the attach points on the
right side are both getting further away from each other. The slack on the
left may allow the chains to drag. The chains on the right have to be left
loose enough that they do not break or bend something from the stretch.

The end result is that the chains must be much less tight if they are not
crossed. They may drag, if not crossed.

When the chains cross, the left hitch attach gets closer to the trailer, but
the right trailer attach gets further away from the hitch. They cancel out.

Plus, the crossing chains do catch the hitch. I was pulling a boat out with
a borrowed vehicle with a wrong size ball, or the hitch was not latched, or
something. It caught the hitch.
--
Jim in NC

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[email protected]

May 5th 14, 07:18 AM

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 7:40:31 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Andy wrote, On 5/4/2014 7:12 AM:

My configuration is to have both the trailer chain and the European brake cable attached, with the chain carrying slightly more slack than the cable. This way, should the trailer become disconnected from the hitch on the tow vehicle it will put on the trailer brake before the chain goes taught. I've only had one occasion to test this setup, when crossing railroad tracks. It worked exactly as intended, with the brake preventing the trailer tongue from spearing the towing vehicle.

I only connect a single chain, so nothing to cross, but I also leave the tongue wheel on (tightened), so I don't have the worry of the tongue hitting the pavement.

9B

Craig R.

May 5th 14, 03:44 PM

Some states require 2 chains when towing, not one. Here is a summary of requirements by state. https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/trailer-hitch-signals/
I know of at least one instance out in, I believe, the Nevada "boonies" where the European brake cable activated the trailer brakes while towing and the driver was oblivious to this. A dual axle Cobra being towed by a truck if memory serves (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Anyway, it caused a fire..
Lastly, I used to tow with the tongue wheel on, but Noelle and others convinced me that it is best to remove it prior to travel. The wheel loosens up and spirals down to the ground. The rubber is quickly ground off and then it gets messy. They aren't cheap either. She has sold many replacement units..
Just something to consider.

Soartech

May 5th 14, 06:01 PM

Another tip worth mentioning is ALWAYS tow with a pin in the hitch lever locking hole. The hitch can open on a severe bump if not pinned. The pin can be a bolt and nut or a padlock for security.
The hole I am referring too is one of the two forward holes in this diagram.

http://www.forbesanddavies.co.nz/products/125-trailer_parts/2395-pressed_steel_1_78_trailer_cou.aspx

Morgans[_2_]

May 6th 14, 02:33 AM

"son_of_flubber" > wrote in message
...
> On Saturday, May 3, 2014 7:14:14 PM UTC-4, JohnDeRosa wrote:
>
>> My mate was in the lead and told me later that in his rear view mirror
>> the trailer was seen repeatedly going to the left and right of my truck -
>> basically it kept trying to change lanes - and cars dodging my trailer to
>> get out of the way.
>
> Gotta tow my trailer next week, so this topic has got me thinking.
>
> I buy that crossed chains are better, but it strikes me that crossed
> chains are not symmetrical and that the dismounted trailer will probably
> not track stable and straight (as John recounts).
>
> I wonder if it might work better to join the left and right chains with a
> perpendicular link under the hitch to achieve symmetry? Picture an H-shape
> chain arrangement.
>
> I think I will experiment and see how my trailer tows/drags on just the
> chains (slowly and in a parking lot).

You will find your right side chains tight as crap when making a left hand
turn.

Don't do it.

Crossing them is the ONLY way to go.
--
Jim in NC

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com