ASW-20 speeds to fly/general advice.

[[email protected]]

Hi,

I am a very new ASW-20 user (first flight yesterday) I am looking for any advice for the glider such as:

Speeds to cruise/climb,
Water; does it fly well? How does it change speed range especially in the climb,
Read a few things about thermalling in neutral flap rather than +1, any thoughts?
Anything else relevant.

I am most interested in speeds to fly, I think in general I always fly a bit slow, I also realise that there is no definitive answer, but a range for different conditions would be useful.

Thanks in advance for advice!

RB

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:09:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am a very new ASW-20 user (first flight yesterday) I am looking for any advice for the glider such as:
>
>
>
> Speeds to cruise/climb,
>
> Water; does it fly well? How does it change speed range especially in the climb,
>
> Read a few things about thermalling in neutral flap rather than +1, any thoughts?
>
> Anything else relevant.
>
>
>
> I am most interested in speeds to fly, I think in general I always fly a bit slow, I also realise that there is no definitive answer, but a range for different conditions would be useful.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for advice!
>
>
>
> RB

Speeds: I suggest you read up under "McCready Theory" and apply it to the polar that is in your Flight Manual. There is no 'quick and dirty' answer to your question. Flap settings: depend on your speed, ranges for each flap position are again in your manual.
Water: worry about that later, once again after consulting the flight manual.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 09:09:47 -0700, rhoan.birch wrote:

> I am a very new ASW-20 user (first flight yesterday) I am looking for
> any advice for the glider such as:
>
I found this (by Andreas Maurer) to be very helpful:
http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/asw20/asw20_handling.html

Hopefully you will too.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[J. Murray]

Check out the ASW20 Yahoo group.

Jim

[Bruce Hoult]

On Friday, May 16, 2014 9:49:22 AM UTC+12, wrote:
> On Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:09:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > I am a very new ASW-20 user (first flight yesterday) I am looking for any advice for the glider such as:
> > Speeds to cruise/climb,
> > I am most interested in speeds to fly, I think in general I always fly a bit slow, I also realise that there is no definitive answer, but a range for different conditions would be useful.
>
> Speeds: I suggest you read up under "McCready Theory" and apply it to the polar that is in your Flight Manual.

Does there exist today a 20 without the polar calculations built into some electronic gizmo .. or at least a McCready ring on the vario?

The more interesting question is what to set it to.

I know a national champion, Worlds contestant, and multiple record holder who says that in his Discus he always sets the speed to fly for 1 knot of lift. Unless the average lift is better than 10 knots. Then he sets it to 2 knots.

Flying slow costs very little time as long as you're not flying McCready 0 or slower. And you'll land out a lot less.

[Mike Oliver]

At 21:55 15 May 2014, Martin Gregorie wrote:

>I found this (by Andreas Maurer) to be very helpful:
>http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/asw20/asw20_handling.html
>
>Hopefully you will too.
>
>
In my second full year of flying my 20, around 175 hours, only thing I
disagree with in these note is regarding flap setting for thermalling.
I nearly always use 4 at about 42 kts empty and 46 kts with water and it
seems to me to climb better than with setting 3. Mine is an early 20 with
winglets. Be interested in the nopinions of other 20 owners.

Mike

[krasw]

On Friday, 16 May 2014 10:58:40 UTC+3, Mike Oliver wrote:
> At 21:55 15 May 2014, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
>
>
> >I found this (by Andreas Maurer) to be very helpful:
>
> >http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/asw20/asw20_handling.html
>
> >
>
> >Hopefully you will too.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> In my second full year of flying my 20, around 175 hours, only thing I
>
> disagree with in these note is regarding flap setting for thermalling.
>
> I nearly always use 4 at about 42 kts empty and 46 kts with water and it
>
> seems to me to climb better than with setting 3. Mine is an early 20 with
>
> winglets. Be interested in the nopinions of other 20 owners.
>
>
>
> Mike

I thermal always at setting 4, speed and turn radius is less than with flaps at 3. When dry, I cruise usually 130-150 kph in weak weather (flap 2), 150-180 in stronger weather (flap 2, at 170+ kph flap 1). Ballasted, I adjust speeds +10-+20 kph upwards. Landing always at flap 4.5, never anything else. I recommend always landing at same configuration. It seems to be quite popular to invent new flap settings for landing with ASW20. Thank god it is forgiving aircraft.

[Echo]

Sounds like you're either too slow or too shallow a bank. Calculate your min sink speed for weight, then adjust by load factor the ideal bank applies. Likely 45 degrees or so...probably more like 48-50kts.

E

[jfitch]

On Thursday, May 15, 2014 9:09:47 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am a very new ASW-20 user (first flight yesterday) I am looking for any advice for the glider such as:
>
>
>
> Speeds to cruise/climb,
>
> Water; does it fly well? How does it change speed range especially in the climb,
>
> Read a few things about thermalling in neutral flap rather than +1, any thoughts?
>
> Anything else relevant.
>
>
>
> I am most interested in speeds to fly, I think in general I always fly a bit slow, I also realise that there is no definitive answer, but a range for different conditions would be useful.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for advice!
>
>
>
> RB

Maybe the most important thing on an ASW 20 is to always remember to hook up the elevator on assembly. I watched the result of not doing so once, and it was not pretty.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Fri, 16 May 2014 00:23:06 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

> I know a national champion, Worlds contestant, and multiple record
> holder who says that in his Discus he always sets the speed to fly for 1
> knot of lift. Unless the average lift is better than 10 knots. Then he
> sets it to 2 knots.
>
1 kt works well for me too (Std Libelle fitted with SDI C4 vario set to
auto switch climb->cruise at 58 kts and cruise->climb at 55 kts).

OTOH a club mate (ex instructor and past club CFI) says:

a) never set MC less than 1 (except in survival mode) or more than 4
(unless you want to land out).

b) do first climb of the day to cloud base, noting where the strongest
lift band is, and then set MC to half the cloudbase measured in
thousands of feet, so if the cloud base is 4000ft, set MC=2.
This seems fair in the UK, may work in NE USA but is probably wrong
elsewhere. however, the method may work in other regions with a
different division factor.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Brett]

On Friday, May 16, 2014 9:49:22 AM UTC+12, wrote:[color=blue][i]

I know a national champion, Worlds contestant, and multiple record holder who says that in his Discus he always sets the speed to fly for 1 knot of lift. Unless the average lift is better than 10 knots. Then he sets it to 2 knots.

Flying slow costs very little time as long as you're not flying McCready 0 or slower. And you'll land out a lot less.

I find it difficult to believe he won a national championship flying a Discus using a 1 knot MC if the average lift was approaching 10kt. I don't have a Discus polar to refer to but I imagine the STF would be about 70kt ballasted for a 1kt MC setting.
In a nationals in a ballasted Discus would you recommend setting off from the top of a 9kt average climb at 70kt?