R22 training software or simulator??

[EGWW]

Ive got a few hours several years ago in R22 and a 47 and want to continue
transition. Is there any interesting training or simulator software out
currently??

Im not looking for a career, just personal use

Rocky are you still watching this group??
regards JB

[[email protected]]

FS2004 has an R22 Beta II in it.

Dave Blevins

On 17 Sep 2003 17:00:05 GMT, (EGWW) wrote:

>Ive got a few hours several years ago in R22 and a 47 and want to continue
>transition. Is there any interesting training or simulator software out
>currently??
>
>Im not looking for a career, just personal use
>
>Rocky are you still watching this group??
>regards JB

[Andrew Crane]

> wrote in message
...
> FS2004 has an R22 Beta II in it.

It does have an R22, but it flies nothing like a helicopter. Looks very much
like an R22 but that's as far as it goes.

Nobody is going to learn anything about controlling a helicopter from a home
simulator, but a much closer flight model is X-Plane. Not perfect, but light
years closer than FS2004.

Regards
Andrew


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[Bart]

I've flown the FAA approved stimulator that is in a trailer and based
on MS-Flightsim. Its pretty much bull****. The Jetranger model they
have flys nothing like the real machine. The thing crashes when it
should not, and doesn't kill you when it should.

I did have a whole lot of fun shooting autos to rooftop helipads though,
something I'd never get a chance to try in the realworld.

About the only thing I can see being useful about that sim is practicing
IFR procs. You can shoot a lot more approaches in one hour in a sim than
you can in the real world.

Bart

[Clive]

"Bart" > wrote in message
...
> I've flown the FAA approved stimulator that is in a trailer and based
> on MS-Flightsim. Its pretty much bull****. The Jetranger model they
> have flys nothing like the real machine. The thing crashes when it
> should not, and doesn't kill you when it should.
>
> I did have a whole lot of fun shooting autos to rooftop helipads though,
> something I'd never get a chance to try in the realworld.
>
> About the only thing I can see being useful about that sim is practicing
> IFR procs. You can shoot a lot more approaches in one hour in a sim than
> you can in the real world.
>
> Bart

I have 40 hours logged on R22 and 3 on R44

I've tried the flight model for helicopters in FS2002, FS2004, X-Plane and
just recently Search and Rescue 4 (Demo). The best so far is Search and
Rescue 4. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of FS2004, but is much
easier on system resources and the flight model is pretty good. There is no
R22 in it though.

Clive

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:35:00 +0100, "Andrew Crane" >
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> FS2004 has an R22 Beta II in it.
>
>It does have an R22, but it flies nothing like a helicopter. Looks very much
>like an R22 but that's as far as it goes.

I disagree. It's not perfect by far - anti-torque pedal input is not
really required to fly it - but it can teach some things. And wait -
it's fun!
>
>Nobody is going to learn anything about controlling a helicopter from a home
>simulator, but a much closer flight model is X-Plane. Not perfect, but light
>years closer than FS2004.

Disagree again. I have the most recent version of X-Plane, and it's
sitting on the shelf. If I thought it was realistic I'd fly it a lot
more. It's certainly a lot more *unstable* than FS2004 in the
helicopters, but it sure doesn't feel like an R22 to me.

FS2004 (and probably X-Plane) can help with *some* things, like pinnacle
approaches and some of the very basic things like what the collective
does, what the cyclic does. (I sure do wish it had better anti-torque
pedal emulation.) Also, it gives an introduction to power management -
take the R22 to a high-altitude airport in FS2004 and try to hover. It's
difficult to do without pulling too much MP.

With the right digital mesh (aka digital elevation data, some of which
is freeware), it can also give a pilot a reasonable idea of what the
terrain is like in a given region before flying there. And, as someone
else said, it's an excellent IFR platform.

I get tired of people dissing FS all the time - it's certainly not
anywhere near a FlightSafety full-motion sim, but it has its uses and I
enjoy flying the helicopters (and planes) in it quite a bit.

---

BTW to the poster that likes SAR4 - I could not get my
throttle/collective to work at all in that game. Do you have a separate
throttle control, and if so is it USB or gameport?

Dave Blevins

[Clive]

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:35:00 +0100, "Andrew Crane" >
> wrote:
> BTW to the poster that likes SAR4 - I could not get my
> throttle/collective to work at all in that game. Do you have a separate
> throttle control, and if so is it USB or gameport?
>
> Dave Blevins

Yes Dave Got my Throttle/Anti Torque to work no problem with my Logitech
Wingman (Gameport on W2k)

Clive

[Dan Moos]

I hear alot that the ani-torque pedals specifically are poorly done in MSFS
2004.

I am a fixed wing pilot, who probably will never have the funds to justify
getting my helicopter rating, but I do fly the helicopters in MSFS for fu,
and am curious what needs changing. I found the R22 to be way squirrly in
yaw, but the rudder pedals on the Cessnas were way over the top also. Once I
set up my pedals for what felt accurate in the airplanes, I discovered that
I could handle the helicopter WAY better also.

So my question is, am I cheating? In the real R22, are the pedals as touchy
as the sim makes them without adjustment?

How about the collective and cyclic controls. Again, I have everything set
up for what seems closest in reality for the Cessnas, so every thing is a
little toned down from the out of the box settings.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:53:33 GMT, "Dan Moos" >
wrote:

>I hear alot that the ani-torque pedals specifically are poorly done in MSFS
>2004.

You might be seeing multiple posts by me - I always complain about it
when talking about helicopters in FS 8^) .
>
>I am a fixed wing pilot, who probably will never have the funds to justify
>getting my helicopter rating, but I do fly the helicopters in MSFS for fu,
>and am curious what needs changing. I found the R22 to be way squirrly in
>yaw, but the rudder pedals on the Cessnas were way over the top also. Once I
>set up my pedals for what felt accurate in the airplanes, I discovered that
>I could handle the helicopter WAY better also.
>
>So my question is, am I cheating? In the real R22, are the pedals as touchy
>as the sim makes them without adjustment?

The main thing is that in any light helicopter (and most others as well
for that matter), you're gonna *have* to put in some increasing
anti-torque pedal as you pull collective - particularly on liftoff. In
FS, you can lift off with very little or no pedal at all. If you did
that in an R22 you'd be spinning like a top. For a very little while
that is, if you don't put in some pedal.
>
>How about the collective and cyclic controls. Again, I have everything set
>up for what seems closest in reality for the Cessnas, so every thing is a
>little toned down from the out of the box settings.

The collective is OK. The cyclic is probably not sensitive enough, even
with the FS axis sensitivity set to the maximum. It is very easy to
over-control an R22 when you first get into one - or at least it was for
me after having about 85 hours in the S300.

I have to say that FS falls down completely on some other things too -
FS2004 doesn't autorotate at all (FS2002 was passable with certain
add-on aircraft) and there are some other things that it doesn't model,
like wind effects (e.g. rear quartering tailwind, which makes hovering
interesting indeed). But as I said in my previous post it's a good
introduction to flying helicopters, especially considering it's marketed
as a game.

Dave Blevins

[ChopperJon2]

Microsoft flightsim is great and realistic. Use the bell 206. or download an
r-22 addon from simviation

[Andrew Crane]

"ChopperJon2" > wrote in message
...
> Microsoft flightsim is great and realistic. Use the bell 206. or download
an
> r-22 addon from simviation

Microsoft Flightsim is nowhere near approaching realistic in its flight
models of any helicopter.

- c of g appears to be behind the tail
- can't autorotate
- flaring doesn't reduce descent
- low rotor RPM doesn't affect lift, doesn't cause nose-down pitch
- descent rate far too high on low collective
- translational lift, VRS, t/r VRS, flap-back, and lots of other stuff
not modelled

etc, etc..

It's basically a plane that can take off vertically, not at all like a
helicopter.

Regards
Andrew


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Sales: 08000 612222 Support: 08704322222. http://www.inweb.co.uk
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welcome

[[email protected]]

Andrew,

I had exactly the same experience that you did until a guy told me to
reduce the "realism" control to a little less than maximum. Prior to
that, if you are hovering and pull the stick back a little the
helicopter will start to climb, nose first. This is what will happen
if you are moving forward, but in a hover this shouldn't happen.
Reducing the realism setting back a notch helped a lot. I have no
trouble doing autorotations now and it flys more like a real
helicopter.

Note that I said "more like" a real helicopter. It still has a lot to
be desired. The Search and Rescue demo was closer to the real thing
as far as flight modeling, however,FS2002 wins as far as controls and
the other aspects.

Dennis.

"Andrew Crane" > wrote:

>
> "ChopperJon2" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Microsoft flightsim is great and realistic. Use the bell 206. or download
> an
> > r-22 addon from simviation
>
> Microsoft Flightsim is nowhere near approaching realistic in its flight
> models of any helicopter.
>
> - c of g appears to be behind the tail
> - can't autorotate
> - flaring doesn't reduce descent
> - low rotor RPM doesn't affect lift, doesn't cause nose-down pitch
> - descent rate far too high on low collective
> - translational lift, VRS, t/r VRS, flap-back, and lots of other stuff
> not modelled
>
> etc, etc..
>
> It's basically a plane that can take off vertically, not at all like a
> helicopter.
>
> Regards
> Andrew

> welcome
>
>

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how they are putting
Americans out of work, visit the following web site
and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[kent shih]

Can you buy control equipment similar in a helicopter for collective,
cyclic, pedals to fly the R22 in the MSFS2004?

Kent





"Andrew Crane" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ChopperJon2" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Microsoft flightsim is great and realistic. Use the bell 206. or
download
> an
> > r-22 addon from simviation
>
> Microsoft Flightsim is nowhere near approaching realistic in its flight
> models of any helicopter.
>
> - c of g appears to be behind the tail
> - can't autorotate
> - flaring doesn't reduce descent
> - low rotor RPM doesn't affect lift, doesn't cause nose-down pitch
> - descent rate far too high on low collective
> - translational lift, VRS, t/r VRS, flap-back, and lots of other stuff
> not modelled
>
> etc, etc..
>
> It's basically a plane that can take off vertically, not at all like a
> helicopter.
>
> Regards
> Andrew
>
>
> --
> Inweb Networks. Quality internet and telecoms services
> Sales: 08000 612222 Support: 08704322222. http://www.inweb.co.uk
> E1 call share - 65%. 0800, 0845 and 0870 numbers - best rates. Resellers
> welcome
>
>

[[email protected]]

Cyclic - yes - use a joystick from any store that sells gaming
suppies.

Pedals - yes - not as comman as joysticks, but they are available.

Collective - I haven't seen an actual collective control, but FS will
use the throttle control on the joystick. Since the R22 has a
governor, you don't normally need the throttle in most simulations.

NOTE: To make FS work worth a smeg, back off on the realism to just
under 100%.

Dennis.


"kent shih" > wrote:

> Can you buy control equipment similar in a helicopter for collective,
> cyclic, pedals to fly the R22 in the MSFS2004?
>
> Kent
>
Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how they are putting
Americans out of work, visit the following web site
and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[[email protected]]

Flight Link sells a complete set of helicopter controls. I have flown
them, and I personally think they're worth about 1/3 of what they cost,
but other people seem to like 'em.

http://www.flightlink.com/hardware/rotorwing/index.html

There is also an outfit in the UK that builds a contraption that
integrates a hacked Saitek joystick. This one intrigues me quite a bit,
esp. if/when they get their twist grip going.

http://www.simcontrol.co.uk/newheli.htm

For now, I'm still using the same stuff I've been using for years - CH
Combatstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals. This is about the least
expensive setup you can get that roughly simulates rotorcraft controls.

Dave Blevins

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:44:01 -0700, "kent shih" >
wrote:

>Can you buy control equipment similar in a helicopter for collective,
>cyclic, pedals to fly the R22 in the MSFS2004?
>
>Kent
>
>
>
>
>
>"Andrew Crane" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "ChopperJon2" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Microsoft flightsim is great and realistic. Use the bell 206. or
>download
>> an
>> > r-22 addon from simviation
>>
>> Microsoft Flightsim is nowhere near approaching realistic in its flight
>> models of any helicopter.
>>
>> - c of g appears to be behind the tail
>> - can't autorotate
>> - flaring doesn't reduce descent
>> - low rotor RPM doesn't affect lift, doesn't cause nose-down pitch
>> - descent rate far too high on low collective
>> - translational lift, VRS, t/r VRS, flap-back, and lots of other stuff
>> not modelled
>>
>> etc, etc..
>>
>> It's basically a plane that can take off vertically, not at all like a
>> helicopter.
>>
>> Regards
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> --
>> Inweb Networks. Quality internet and telecoms services
>> Sales: 08000 612222 Support: 08704322222. http://www.inweb.co.uk
>> E1 call share - 65%. 0800, 0845 and 0870 numbers - best rates. Resellers
>> welcome
>>
>>
>