Region 9 day 1 Std Class

[Andy[_1_]]

On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?

Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.

Andy (GY)

[Papa3[_2_]]

The rules already address why the day wasn't "devalued"; 100% of the competitors who attempted the task completed. Nobody except AV8 made a marking distance.

The real question under the rules has more to do with the conditions at the start.

10.8.1.2 After the announcement of task opening time, the CD should consult with the task advisors as to whether the selected task is fair and safe. If a delay or a task change is deemed necessary, this should be announced 10 minutes or more before task opening 2014 SSA US National FAI-Class Rules 15time; task changes later than this should be avoided when possible.

There are a couple of possibilities/questions that need to be answered in the current situation:

1. Did the CD get an affirmative to the above question? Assuming that was a "yes", then

2. Did the remainder of the Standard Class hang around playing start gate roulette, painting themselves into a corner when the conditions deteriorated..

If enough of the competitors felt there was not a fair and safe condition when the gate first opened, then I have to believe there would have been protests.

I wasn't there, I don't know. Just laying out the scenario that would need to be covered under the rules.

P3

p.s. I've been frustrated as a CD when folks complain about a task being too long when the day ends. I ask the question, "when did you start and when did the gate open." That's often an interesting discussion.

On Friday, June 20, 2014 9:40:44 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
> On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
>
>
> Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
>
>
> Andy (GY)

[Andy[_1_]]

On Friday, June 20, 2014 8:28:43 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
> The rules already address why the day wasn't "devalued"; 100% of the competitors who attempted the task completed. Nobody except AV8 made a marking distance.

No disagreement that there was no devaluation because the published rules required no devaluation.

The devaluation rules require an understanding of the term "contestant".

11.1.1 A Contestant is a regular entrant whose Scored Distance (Rule 11.2.3) is greater than zero.

The situation is complicated by:

11.1.3 A valid competition day is a day on which every regular entrant is given a fair opportunity to compete, and at least 25% of
Contestants achieve a Scored Distance not less than the Standard Minimum Task Distance.

and

11.2.3.5 Scored Distance is zero if:
* The pilot has no valid start time (Rule 10.8).
* The pilot lands at the home field (or the pilot of a motorized sailplane used the power unit after launch) and the distance
calculated above is less than half the Standard Minimum Task Distance.

Since standard min task distance is 50 miles there would have been a huge difference in the R9 day 1 scores if a few of the pilots had managed 25 miles. These pilots would have qualified as "competitors" and caused the day to have been invalid.

Something to consider on the next thunderstorm day or when the rules come up for revision.

Andy (GY)

[[email protected]]

I talked to John Cochrane about this issue last year. It's come up before
but he doesn't really know what to do about it. We had a less-extreme
version of this at the Region 3 contest last year. About 2/3 of the
field stayed at home. Of the other third 3 made it around (very slowly)
and the rest landed out in a rainstorm, with one broken glider in the bunch.
It makes for poor incentives -- in order to kill the day, you have to go
risk your plane on an almost guaranteed landout since if one person gets
more than 20 miles away they get 1000 points. I'm not sure what 11.2.3.5
is trying accomplish -- is that in case half the field decides to go play
golf instead one day the rest can still have a contest day?

Matt

[Andy[_1_]]

On Friday, June 20, 2014 11:21:21 AM UTC-7, Andy wrote:

Sorry should have read "These pilots would have qualified as "contestants" and caused the day to have been invalid.

Andy

[Papa3[_2_]]

Yup - it's a difficult question. Charlie Spratt used to rattle off many rules by the name of the pilot for (against?) whom a given rule was written. I won't repeat them, but some of the stories behind rules are quite entertaining. Related to this situation, IIRC, there was a problem at one point where pilots would give up at the start and land. They'd then find out that a bunch of guys had gotten away and had pretty good flights while a bunch had landed out. An official day was in the balance. So, some pilots would intentionally go up again, take a start, and land at the next closest airport 5 miles away to "kill" the day by increasing the number of competitors to decrease the ratio of pilots making minimum distance. So, the rule got changed to be "at least half the standard minimum distance" to make it a little more of a commitment to go out and make a marking distance. That was the story I heard - I don't know if it was a widespread issue, a single instance, or a hypothetical situation.

In the case of the Moriarty Day 1 contest, it appears from the log files and task parameters that the Standard Class task was the last to open, and the lone "contestant" started pretty much when the gate opened. It's interesting that 3 or 4 of the remaining pilots obviously had the altitude at some point after the gate opened to start (i.e. 6,000 or more AGL), but they chose not to. It would be nice to hear what led to that situation. Was the picture out the windscreen so ugly that they landed for safety reasons? Did they think that the conditions would get better and ended up losing that bet? If the former, I think it's up to the CD to stand up for the safe/fair rule. If the latter, then I think "that's racing."

Just my opinion.

P3

[Mike the Strike]

I was one of the other standard class competitors and climbed out very close to AV8. He chose to fly east to outflank storms moving into the area while I elected to try for a hole between two cells. I abandoned the attempt after lightning struck just in front of me. Randy made the best call and I didn't!

Mike

[Nick Kennedy]

On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:
> On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
>
>
> Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
>
>
> Andy (GY)

This is a good question posted by Andy.

Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.
Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.
Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.
Only 1 in Standard Class departed.

The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.

So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.

One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".

There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!

The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?
At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.

I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons
[ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.
I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.

Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!
Sorry to bring it up.

What is wrong with being able to drop a day?

I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.
And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.

Nick Kennedy
[ T ]

[glen]

On Friday, June 20, 2014 9:40:44 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
> On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
>
>
> Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
>
>
> Andy (GY)

What about this?
Glen


11.4.6 ‡ â€* Worst Day Score Adjustment
If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and added to the cumulative score
of each entrant

[Mike C]

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:
>
> > On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Andy (GY)
>
>
>
> This is a good question posted by Andy.
>
>
>
> Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.
>
> Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.
>
> Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.
>
> Only 1 in Standard Class departed.
>
>
>
> The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.
>
>
>
> So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.
>
>
>
> One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".
>
>
>
> There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!
>
>
>
> The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?
>
> At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.
>
>
>
> I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons
>
> [ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.
>
> I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.
>
>
>
> Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!
>
> Sorry to bring it up.
>
>
>
> What is wrong with being able to drop a day?
>
>
>
> I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.
>
> And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.
>
>
>
> Nick Kennedy
>
> [ T ]

One problem with a good idea. Drop a low score and you could cancel a marginal contest with the minimum contest days, making it invalid.

[Mike C]

"Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course."

12 went out on course, 3 finished.





On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:
>
> > On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Andy (GY)
>
>
>
> This is a good question posted by Andy.
>
>
>
> Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.
>
> Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.
>
> Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.
>
> Only 1 in Standard Class departed.
>
>
>
> The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.
>
>
>
> So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.
>
>
>
> One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".
>
>
>
> There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!
>
>
>
> The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?
>
> At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.
>
>
>
> I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons
>
> [ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.
>
> I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.
>
>
>
> Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!
>
> Sorry to bring it up.
>
>
>
> What is wrong with being able to drop a day?
>
>
>
> I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.
>
> And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.
>
>
>
> Nick Kennedy
>
> [ T ]

[mike]

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:24:58 PM UTC-6, glen wrote:
> On Friday, June 20, 2014 9:40:44 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
>
> > On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Andy (GY)
>
>
>
> What about this?
>
> Glen
>
>
>
>
>
> 11.4.6 ‡ â€* Worst Day Score Adjustment
>
> If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and added to the cumulative score
>
> of each entrant

Ah, a sense of humor.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:10:42 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
>
> > On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Andy (GY)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This is a good question posted by Andy.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.
>
> >
>
> > Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.
>
> >
>
> > Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.
>
> >
>
> > Only 1 in Standard Class departed.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?
>
> >
>
> > At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons
>
> >
>
> > [ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.
>
> >
>
> > I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!
>
> >
>
> > Sorry to bring it up.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > What is wrong with being able to drop a day?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.
>
> >
>
> > And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Nick Kennedy
>
> >
>
> > [ T ]
>
>
>
> One problem with a good idea. Drop a low score and you could cancel a marginal contest with the minimum contest days, making it invalid.

As written, the rule comes into effect after there are enough days to avoid this problem.
UH

[Mike C]

On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:45:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:10:42 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Andy (GY)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > This is a good question posted by Andy.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Only 1 in Standard Class departed.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Sorry to bring it up.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > What is wrong with being able to drop a day?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Nick Kennedy
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [ T ]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > One problem with a good idea. Drop a low score and you could cancel a marginal contest with the minimum contest days, making it invalid.
>
>
>
> As written, the rule comes into effect after there are enough days to avoid this problem.
>
> UH

Why not then?

[[email protected]]

My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety imporovmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year..
So why don't we use it? Because the rc doesn't shove this sort of thing down pilots throats. It's been an available option at regionals for years but with a few exceptions (Ionia ) nobody has tried it. So, if this sounds like a good idea, you the pilot need to ask your cd to try it! Chances are, the cd isn't even aware it exists. Things like this need to be tried at regionals for a few years, gain acceptance, then move

[[email protected]]

(Hit send by accident) to nationals once they are well accepted
John cochrane BB

[Mike C]

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:01:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety improvmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:01:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> > My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety improvmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year.
>
> >
>
> > So why don't we use it? Because the rc doesn't shove this sort of thing down pilots throats. It's been an available option at regionals for years but with a few exceptions (Ionia ) nobody has tried it. So, if this sounds like a good idea, you the pilot need to ask your cd to try it! Chances are, the cd isn't even aware it exists. Things like this need to be tried at regionals for a few years, gain acceptance, then move
>
>
>
> Observation, and the yin and the yang of it-
>
>
>
> How would this have really helped the Moriarty Std Class Pilots that decided not to fly the task(this situation)? It would have made no difference in the outcome. Dropping a day would have. In either case an excellent pilot would have been effectively penalized for a great flight while rewarding others for not flying, and I do not think this is the intent of a contest requiring aggregate skills. Also, why should a pilot get any points for not flying-for any reason? It is easy to see the intent of the WDSA rule, but I do not think it is the correct solution.

The other option is to have the CD and advisors evaluate the situation and not open a task that does not meet accepted criteria for being both fair and safe.
It is a judgement call, but has been used countless times to avoid these kinds of problems.
UH

[Mike C]

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:08:47 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:01:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety improvmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > So why don't we use it? Because the rc doesn't shove this sort of thing down pilots throats. It's been an available option at regionals for years but with a few exceptions (Ionia ) nobody has tried it. So, if this sounds like a good idea, you the pilot need to ask your cd to try it! Chances are, the cd isn't even aware it exists. Things like this need to be tried at regionals for a few years, gain acceptance, then move
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Observation, and the yin and the yang of it-
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > How would this have really helped the Moriarty Std Class Pilots that decided not to fly the task(this situation)? It would have made no difference in the outcome. Dropping a day would have. In either case an excellent pilot would have been effectively penalized for a great flight while rewarding others for not flying, and I do not think this is the intent of a contest requiring aggregate skills. Also, why should a pilot get any points for not flying-for any reason? It is easy to see the intent of the WDSA rule, but I do not think it is the correct solution.
>
>
>
> The other option is to have the CD and advisors evaluate the situation and not open a task that does not meet accepted criteria for being both fair and safe.
>
> It is a judgement call, but has been used countless times to avoid these kinds of problems.
>
> UH

Of course.