Hard to assemble glider

[HGXC[_2_]]

Hi

I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight to the glider for pinning.

I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes open and flap in 3.

I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once I get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing man and me.

Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on the same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.


Dennis

[[email protected]]

Insert the right wing first and tape at least the top joint. Then insert the left wing. Here is the trick. Open the canopy as the wing goes in you can easily see the alignment of the two spars and most importantly the relationship of the spigot to the hole in the right wing root. So now it is easy to get the alignment just right. If you do what it says in the manual and insert the left wing first, you can't see where the alignment problem lies. Also I suggest the flaps be in 0 and the spoiler handle in the middle. Always confirm the water dump is closed. If the dump is open, you will never get the wings on. Finally, speaking of water, if you have an issue with leaking dump valves, use the wax sold in hardware stores for sealing toilets.

Bob
Ventus C



On Monday, July 21, 2014 11:40:50 AM UTC-7, HGXC wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight to the glider for pinning.
>
>
>
> I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes open and flap in 3.
>
>
>
> I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once I get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing man and me.
>
>
>
> Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on the same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

If not already obvious, have the flap and brake levers in the same position when derigging as you want them for rigging. Also ballast dump lever if that affects line up.

HTH.

Chris N

[[email protected]]

Not sure what an "older Ventus" means but I have a B model and for it there is a pin for holding the air brake position while assembling; same pin as used for removal of water tank caps. Pull back the air brake handle until the hole becomes visible, insert pin in hole. According to my manual flaps should be set to S. Seems to work for me. I have found the help you receive makes the most difference in getting it together easily. Some people I have had assist me have made it a breeze and others turn it into a struggle. I just bought a single person rigging cart. I am hoping this can cut my reliance on random help.

[Bill D]

On Monday, July 21, 2014 12:40:50 PM UTC-6, HGXC wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight to the glider for pinning.
>
>
>
> I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes open and flap in 3.
>
>
>
> I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once I get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing man and me.
>
>
>
> Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on the same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis

Two posts with good advice. Here's another.

It could be one of the spigots is hanging up - likely on the left wing. Using help from a couple of people on a calm day, try the fitting left wing first. If IT doesn't go on smoothly, the problem is with one of the spigots.. Try gently swinging the wingtip an inch or so fore and aft while watching for the point where the swing is centered. That's the spigot that needs help. I found the left rear spigot of my N2C could barely be forced to engage. Replacing the "eyeball" bearing in the fuselage solved a similar problem.

[Bill D]

On Monday, July 21, 2014 1:59:16 PM UTC-6, Bill D wrote:
> On Monday, July 21, 2014 12:40:50 PM UTC-6, HGXC wrote:
>
> > Hi
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight to the glider for pinning.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes open and flap in 3.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once I get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing man and me.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on the same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Dennis
>
>
>
> Two posts with good advice. Here's another.
>
>
>
> It could be one of the spigots is hanging up - likely on the left wing. Using help from a couple of people on a calm day, try the fitting left wing first. If IT doesn't go on smoothly, the problem is with one of the spigots. Try gently swinging the wingtip an inch or so fore and aft while watching for the point where the swing is centered. That's the spigot that needs help. I found the left rear spigot of my N2C could barely be forced to engage. Replacing the "eyeball" bearing in the fuselage solved a similar problem.

I meant to say right wing first.

[HGXC[_2_]]

On Monday, July 21, 2014 3:51:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Not sure what an "older Ventus" means but I have a B model and for it there is a pin for holding the air brake position while assembling; same pin as used for removal of water tank caps. Pull back the air brake handle until the hole becomes visible, insert pin in hole. According to my manual flaps should be set to S. Seems to work for me. I have found the help you receive makes the most difference in getting it together easily. Some people I have had assist me have made it a breeze and others turn it into a struggle. I just bought a single person rigging cart. I am hoping this can cut my reliance on random help.

I have a B and I never had a pin for the airbrakes. I have never used water while flying here. What does the pin look like?

Dennis

[[email protected]]

Dennis,

There is the tube that is the airbrake handle. It slides over another tube which is basically a guide. If you open the airbrake handle 2-3 inches you should see that the guide tube has a roughly 1/4" diameter hole drilled in it. You can put any metal rod in this hole and it will prevent the airbrake handle from moving forward to the full closed position. Many people use the tail assembly threaded tool. With the airbrakes held partially open, you won't be fighting the airbrake over-center lock when you push the wings together.

The next thing is to make sure that the end of the spar of the first wing is centered vertically in the opposite spar cut out and is aligned forward/aft and up/down such that the pin on the end of the spar will line up with the socket in the opposite root rib.

The last trick if you can get the wings to start to go together (end of spar pins are engaging the root sockets) is to use a metal pry bar to pull the wings together the last 3/4". To make one of these pry bars, go to lowes or home depot and buy an 18" piece of 1/2" round bar. Use a grinder and aggressively grind one end so that it starts to look like a flat blade screw driver. Be sure to remove any sharp edges. Cover the bar with a piece of tygon tubing except for the last 1-2". Be sure the last 2" are well rounded and very smooth so you don't put any marks on the inside of the main pin bushings. When you can see the aft main pin bushing hole through the near bushing, insert your new rigging tool and you can lever the wings home with minimal effort.

Mark

[Andrew[_13_]]

My Ventus 2 does not have this airbrake hole, although the POH still
mentions it, so I set the air brakes about 2.5" open for rigging. Mark,
if you have this guide hole. can you measure how far your brakes
have to be open, exactly, so I can use that in future?

I thought the suggestion of taping the first wing sounded a good
idea, I'll try that.

My experience is that its 99% a matter of wing alignment, plus
having the cockpit levers set according to the POH. I've found that
anything lying in the cockpit that causes the control column to sit off
center will also cause a problem. I check the wing-fuselage gaps,
both on top and lower surfaces, as an aid to wing alignment. If the
wing pins are aligned, and all controls set right, very little force is
usually needed to pull the wings together on the Ventus. If
something isn't aligned, no amount of force will help.

The final inch does have more resistance, I guess because the pins
are naturally made to be tight-ish fits. I find an plastic eccentric tool
helps a lot with the last 1/2" with no chance of damage. I got mine at

http://glidersource.com/cgi-bin/post.cgi?id=145



At 02:30 22 July 2014, wrote:
>Dennis,
>
>There is the tube that is the airbrake handle. It slides over another
>tube=
> which is basically a guide. If you open the airbrake handle 2-3
inches
>yo=
>u should see that the guide tube has a roughly 1/4" diameter hole
drilled
>i=
>n it. You can put any metal rod in this hole and it will prevent the
>airbr=
>ake handle from moving forward to the full closed position. Many
people
>us=
>e the tail assembly threaded tool. With the airbrakes held partially
>open,=
> you won't be fighting the airbrake over-center lock when you push
the
>wing=
>s together.
>
>The next thing is to make sure that the end of the spar of the first
wing
>i=
>s centered vertically in the opposite spar cut out and is aligned
>forward/a=
>ft and up/down such that the pin on the end of the spar will line up
with
>t=
>he socket in the opposite root rib.
>
>The last trick if you can get the wings to start to go together (end
of
>spa=
>r pins are engaging the root sockets) is to use a metal pry bar to
pull
>the=
> wings together the last 3/4". To make one of these pry bars, go to
lowes
>=
>or home depot and buy an 18" piece of 1/2" round bar. Use a
grinder and
>ag=
>gressively grind one end so that it starts to look like a flat blade
screw
>=
>driver. Be sure to remove any sharp edges. Cover the bar with a
piece of
>=
>tygon tubing except for the last 1-2". Be sure the last 2" are well
>rounde=
>d and very smooth so you don't put any marks on the inside of the
main pin
>=
>bushings. When you can see the aft main pin bushing hole through
the near
>=
>bushing, insert your new rigging tool and you can lever the wings
home
>with=
> minimal effort.
>
>Mark
>
>
>

[Tim Taylor]

I found with the Ventus and Nimbus it is good to clean the pins on the end of each spar root and wing root should be cleaned with 00 steel wool every few years and then lubed carefully. The spherical bearings on the fuselage and on the wing roots should be cleaned until they move freely. They can be rotated and removed if installed correctly (incorrectly and they go into the tubes). Q-tips and solvent will help free then up.

I have found many ships have never been cleaned in years.

Usually the tightness for the last 1/4 to 1/2 inch are from lack of cleaning as long as the flaps, spoilers and dump valves are set correctly.

[BruceGreeff]

The big Kestrel is a pain to rig. Fortunately it happens relatively
seldom. Somehow it never seems to just come together.

That said, the tight fit means that even after 30+ years there is no
play at the wingtips, and she feels rosk solid. YOu just have to have
very good friends if you want help rigging.

On 2014-07-22 06:37, Tim Taylor wrote:
> I found with the Ventus and Nimbus it is good to clean the pins on the end of each spar root and wing root should be cleaned with 00 steel wool every few years and then lubed carefully. The spherical bearings on the fuselage and on the wing roots should be cleaned until they move freely. They can be rotated and removed if installed correctly (incorrectly and they go into the tubes). Q-tips and solvent will help free then up.
>
> I have found many ships have never been cleaned in years.
>
> Usually the tightness for the last 1/4 to 1/2 inch are from lack of cleaning as long as the flaps, spoilers and dump valves are set correctly.
>

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

[Mike the Strike]

I find my Discus 2 can be a dog to get the last inch of the wings in on a hot day (common in Arizona), but much, much easier on a cool day. Presumably thermal expansion plays a role?

The spoilers are what usually hang up, so I give the handle a last tweak to clear them before the final push. The manual says to rig the left wing first, but most owners do it the other way round so they can easily access the cockpit. Otherwise, clean, grease and push!

Mike (WA)

[John Galloway[_1_]]

Apart from being heavy I always found my old Kestrel 19 a very
easy rig. You can see and get to the top of the spars so you
can see where all the pins should be and there are studs on the
top of each spar stub so that you can use the special rigging
lever to draw them together. I sold the glider almost 30 years
ago but still have the lever. If you have the studs but not the
lever let me know Bruce.

John Galloway

At 04:44 22 July 2014, BruceGreeff wrote:
>The big Kestrel is a pain to rig. Fortunately it happens
relatively
>seldom. Somehow it never seems to just come together.
>
>That said, the tight fit means that even after 30+ years there
is no
>play at the wingtips, and she feels rosk solid. YOu just have
to have
>very good friends if you want help rigging.
>
>On 2014-07-22 06:37, Tim Taylor wrote:
>> I found with the Ventus and Nimbus it is good to clean the
pins on the
>end of each spar root and wing root should be cleaned with
00 steel wool
>every few years and then lubed carefully. The spherical
bearings on the
>fuselage and on the wing roots should be cleaned until they
move freely.
>They can be rotated and removed if installed correctly
(incorrectly and
>they go into the tubes). Q-tips and solvent will help free then
up.
>>
>> I have found many ships have never been cleaned in years.
>>
>> Usually the tightness for the last 1/4 to 1/2 inch are from
lack of
>cleaning as long as the flaps, spoilers and dump valves are
set correctly.
>>
>
>--
>Bruce Greeff
>T59D #1771
>

[[email protected]]

I don't have my Ventus so I can't measure where the hole is located. The location is not critical however. From the fully locked position, pull the airbrake handle aft so that it is not locked. From this position, pull the handle aft gently to where you just start to feel resistance against the airbrakes. This position is the sweet spot. If you don't have a hole, another option might be to cut a piece of small aluminum angle to the correct length and use this to block the airbrake handle open to this position.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 21, 2014 11:40:50 AM UTC-7, HGXC wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight to the glider for pinning.
>
>
>
> I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes open and flap in 3.
>
>
>
> I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once I get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing man and me.
>
>
>
> Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on the same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dennis

I've rigged my new to me Ventus B five or so times now. I rig it by the book with flaps as S and pin in airbrake hole. It has gone ok, better each time, and I think I have it figured out pretty well now. The main issue with getting the second wing on is to line up the main spar pin into the opposite wing hole. You can't line it up visually so you just have to feel for it from the wingtip. So, I get the drag pins and flap torque tube matched and inserted while I'm on the root, then go to the tip and feel for the spar pin hole and pin connection with the wingtip I don't even try to insert it all the way (sometimes that pops out the opposite wing), only just enough so that the tool can be inserted in the main spar pin holes, then lever the wings together. It only takes a slight pull on the tool and presto, wings are in.
It may be that you have yet to find the right fuselage and first wing height, you might try experimenting with that, but I'm not sure it matters that much if the wingspar is centered in the fuse cutout. Hope that helps.
Jim

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:14:07 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, July 21, 2014 11:40:50 AM UTC-7, HGXC wrote:
>
> > Hi
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight to the glider for pinning.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes open and flap in 3.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once I get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing man and me.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on the same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.
>
> >
>
> > An old trick that works with the gliders that use the pin in the end of the spar is to make a wedge that is glued onto the bottom of the spar box that supports the spar end just slightly below the perfect height when assembled. This sets one wing and the relationship to the fuselage. With that set, it is much easier to line up the second wing.
UH
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Dennis
>
>
>
> I've rigged my new to me Ventus B five or so times now. I rig it by the book with flaps as S and pin in airbrake hole. It has gone ok, better each time, and I think I have it figured out pretty well now. The main issue with getting the second wing on is to line up the main spar pin into the opposite wing hole. You can't line it up visually so you just have to feel for it from the wingtip. So, I get the drag pins and flap torque tube matched and inserted while I'm on the root, then go to the tip and feel for the spar pin hole and pin connection with the wingtip I don't even try to insert it all the way (sometimes that pops out the opposite wing), only just enough so that the tool can be inserted in the main spar pin holes, then lever the wings together. It only takes a slight pull on the tool and presto, wings are in.
>
> It may be that you have yet to find the right fuselage and first wing height, you might try experimenting with that, but I'm not sure it matters that much if the wingspar is centered in the fuse cutout. Hope that helps.
>
> Jim

[Jonathon May[_2_]]

At 17:14 22 July 2014, wrote:
>On Monday, July 21, 2014 11:40:50 AM UTC-7, HGXC wrote:
>> Hi=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I fly a older Ventus and my glider wings are difficult to slide tight
to
>=
>the glider for pinning.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I have a 1 pin set up and start with my left wing. I keep my brakes
open
>=
>and flap in 3.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I can line up the inserted arm fine and line up the controls but, once
I
>=
>get to a couple inches it bogs down and is quite a workout for my wing
man
>=
>and me.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Any tips or suggestions on making this easier? I notice that even on
the
>=
>same glider type and model they can vary on ease of assembly.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Dennis
>
>I've rigged my new to me Ventus B five or so times now. I rig it by the
>bo=
>ok with flaps as S and pin in airbrake hole. It has gone ok, better each
>t=
>ime, and I think I have it figured out pretty well now. The main issue
>wit=
>h getting the second wing on is to line up the main spar pin into the
>oppos=
>ite wing hole. You can't line it up visually so you just have to feel
for
>=
>it from the wingtip. So, I get the drag pins and flap torque tube
matched
>=
>and inserted while I'm on the root, then go to the tip and feel for the
>spa=
>r pin hole and pin connection with the wingtip I don't even try to
insert
>=
>it all the way (sometimes that pops out the opposite wing), only just
>enoug=
>h so that the tool can be inserted in the main spar pin holes, then lever
>t=
>he wings together. It only takes a slight pull on the tool and presto,
>win=
>gs are in.
>It may be that you have yet to find the right fuselage and first wing
>heigh=
>t, you might try experimenting with that, but I'm not sure it matters
that
>=
>much if the wingspar is centered in the fuse cutout. Hope that helps.
>Jim
>

I have never had a ventus ,but I had a discus for 10'years and a duo the
last
3 ,
Left first ,then the pin goes in part way against the parcel shelf ,put
that wing
on a stand and do not be tempted to move it.
Right wing second brakes closed but not locked
Use synthetic super lube on the pins

On the duo my syndicate partner and I use a imi wing lifter that has a gas

strut,he thinks the best assistance is a vicious dog to keep the helpers
away
,because opinionated glider pilot helpers can cause more trouble than help

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 2:00:15 PM UTC-4, Jonathon May wrote:
> ...opinionated glider pilot helpers can cause more trouble than help

Words to live by from RAS!

[[email protected]]

Dennis,
The pin is @ 10" long and @ 3/16" dia with one end turned down to a reduced diameter that fits the hole in the inner sleeve of the airbrake as well as the water caps. The length helps insure that you don't inadvertently leave it in the hole as it crosses much of the instrument panel when inserted. This pin and the alignment pin that helps bring the wings in the last 1/2" should have come with the glider. My trailer has a dedicated place for these tools inside on the left rear rail.

[[email protected]]

In a decade and a half of soaring I've somehow never ended up being involved in the assembly of a glass SH glider so could someone clarify something for me? By the sound of it the SH system uses a single pin to hold the wings together laterally and spigots extending out from each spar end that engage with fittings in the root of the opposing wing to take up the bending loads on the spars - much like a Glasflugel - but they don't include a rigging tool that draws the wings together the last couple of inches? Seems like an odd omission. I thought Grob was the only manufacturer that did something like that, though they do at least use those locking collars instead of a pin which does allow you to secure the first wing in so you don't have to worry about pushing it out when trying to slide the second wing home.

[Tim Taylor]

Very easy to make a "tool" to prevent the left wing from coming out while inserting the right wing. Just a block of wood cut the correct length and cut with a hole saw on one end to match the spar pin and rounded on the other to match the fuselage. Put the left wing in, insert the spar pin part way so that it does not extend beyond the left spar. Then put the tool in between the pin and the left side of the fuselage. Not needed if the plane is cleaned and lubed properly but can be helpful on very hot days.

[John Firth[_4_]]

All the comments should identify the glider!

PIK 20E with self rigging gear.

1. Wing alignment is crucial; root gap parallel.
Height of the wing tips must be right.
Make a height gauge to perch on the fuselage to show when the stands are
cranked to the right height

2. Tape the first wing in to hold it; you have to tape it anyway.

JMF

At 13:34 26 July 2014, Tim Taylor wrote:
>Very easy to make a "tool" to prevent the left wing from coming out while
>i=
>nserting the right wing. Just a block of wood cut the correct length and
>cu=
>t with a hole saw on one end to match the spar pin and rounded on the
>other=
> to match the fuselage. Put the left wing in, insert the spar pin part
way
>=
>so that it does not extend beyond the left spar. Then put the tool in
>betwe=
>en the pin and the left side of the fuselage. Not needed if the plane is
>cl=
>eaned and lubed properly but can be helpful on very hot days.
>

[HGXC[_2_]]

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 5:25:41 PM UTC-4, firsys wrote:
> All the comments should identify the glider!
>
>
>
> PIK 20E with self rigging gear.
>
>
>
> 1. Wing alignment is crucial; root gap parallel.
>
> Height of the wing tips must be right.
>
> Make a height gauge to perch on the fuselage to show when the stands are
>
> cranked to the right height
>
>
>
> 2. Tape the first wing in to hold it; you have to tape it anyway.
>
>
>
> JMF
>
>
>
> At 13:34 26 July 2014, Tim Taylor wrote:
>
> >Very easy to make a "tool" to prevent the left wing from coming out while
>
> >i=
>
> >nserting the right wing. Just a block of wood cut the correct length and
>
> >cu=
>
> >t with a hole saw on one end to match the spar pin and rounded on the
>
> >other=
>
> > to match the fuselage. Put the left wing in, insert the spar pin part
>
> way
>
> >=
>
> >so that it does not extend beyond the left spar. Then put the tool in
>
> >betwe=
>
> >en the pin and the left side of the fuselage. Not needed if the plane is
>
> >cl=
>
> >eaned and lubed properly but can be helpful on very hot days.
>
> >

Thanks for all of the advice. I flew yesterday and the glider went together with ease-:) I think the flap setting in S and pinning the air brake was a big factor but I cleaned and lubed the fittings as well.

Dennis