want to trade.

[Thermal]

20 year old strong 303 parachute for an equivelent softie so i may trade it in and get a $300 discount on a new softie.

Jim

[glidergeek]

What's wrong with your 303?

[Thermal]

On Monday, July 21, 2014 11:27:01 PM UTC-5, Glidergeek wrote:
> What's wrong with your 303?

Only its age. riggers will not repack a chute that old. no regulations about it. just general policy.

[glidergeek]

Mine is the same age, just got it replaced in So. Cal. Call strong if it's in good shape they will inspect and repack it. There is no age restriction on Strongs. Everyone that has opened mine says it's in excellent shape. If a chute maker can't get over 20 years of quality out of their product it must not be worth buying.

[PGS]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:03:02 AM UTC-4, Quietpilot wrote:
> On Monday, July 21, 2014 11:27:01 PM UTC-5, Glidergeek wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with your 303?
>
>
>
> Only its age. riggers will not repack a chute that old. no regulations about it. just general policy.

My chute is 30 years old and I have no problem getting it repacked. Perhaps if you shopped around you may find a rigger that basis his/her decision on condition and not age.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Monday, July 21, 2014 10:43:00 PM UTC-5, Quietpilot wrote:
> 20 year old strong 303 parachute for an equivelent softie so i may trade it in and get a $300 discount on a new softie. Jim

Or maybe you can just sell your chute to someone for $300 and get the same end result for yourself?

Steve

[glidergeek]

Let's do a little math here, if you'relike my situation you paid $1600 for that parachute. You took good care of it kept about the sun and the weather got repacked either every year or every other year. It's 20 years old and it still in good shape, If Strong says it is a good chute and as long as it stays in good shape it can be repacked. Softie and other's say ours are only good for 20 years time to buy a new one pony up $2300.

Strong says ship it to us will repack and certify it for $55. Unless you have abused yours got it wet left it in your glider on hot days in the sun let your animals **** on it you should be able to get another 10 years out of it.

[Walt Connelly]

I just spoke with Strong regarding the 20 year thing. NOT SO. IF it passes the riggers general inspection it will be re-rigged indefinitely. Individual riggers may be unwilling to do a repack on an older chute but there is no regulation regarding this limit.

Walt

[Quietpilot]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:40:37 AM UTC-5, Glidergeek wrote:
> Let's do a little math here, if you'relike my situation you paid $1600 for that parachute. You took good care of it kept about the sun and the weather got repacked either every year or every other year. It's 20 years old and it still in good shape, If Strong says it is a good chute and as long as it stays in good shape it can be repacked. Softie and other's say ours are only good for 20 years time to buy a new one pony up $2300.
>
>
>
> Strong says ship it to us will repack and certify it for $55. Unless you have abused yours got it wet left it in your glider on hot days in the sun let your animals **** on it you should be able to get another 10 years out of it.

I think the gist of the argument and I may be wrong, is that regardless of the environment or care in handling. The materials in the canopy still age, and by 20 years. The nylon or whatever material becomes more brittle. Testing this becomes a destructive test. Thus anyone signing one off past this generally recognized rule of thumb may not be someone to entrust your life welfare to. Then again there may be an element of salesmanship too. Strong has better insurance to stand by their product than John P Rigger
I have emailed strong. And received a reply. It is $65 to Re-certify it each time plus $70 (35 x 2) shipping to and fro. I may just want to get a more current used one and hand it to the guy with $40 and get it back next day. Or maybe the cost to continually recertify is not significant compared to the high outlay for new.
Incidentally the chute was offered with the glider I just purchased. It looks new and fooled the rigger until he pulled the log. It only just reached the 20 year mark. Otherwise it is really quite nice. It is my 1st parachute and my 1st glider too.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:43:36 AM UTC-5, Quietpilot wrote:
> I think the gist of the argument and I may be wrong, is that regardless of the environment or care in handling. The materials in the canopy still age, and by 20 years. The nylon or whatever material becomes more brittle. Testing this becomes a destructive test. Thus anyone signing one off past this generally recognized rule of thumb may not be someone to entrust your life welfare to. Then again there may be an element of salesmanship too. Strong has better insurance to stand by their product than John P Rigger I have emailed strong. And received a reply. It is $65 to Re-certify it each time plus $70 (35 x 2) shipping to and fro. I may just want to get a more current used one and hand it to the guy with $40 and get it back next day. Or maybe the cost to continually recertify is not significant compared to the high outlay for new. Incidentally the chute was offered with the glider I just purchased. It looks new and fooled the rigger until he pulled the log. It only just reached the 20 year mark. Otherwise it is really quite nice. It is my 1st parachute and my 1st glider too.

From what my rigger has told me, if you treat the rig like you treat yourself (not left out in the sun and rain, kept at a reasonable temp when not "in use"), the majority of the wear and degredation of the canopy happens, are you ready for this, when you open it, inspect it, and re-pack it! So, with the older repack time limit, you actually wore out the chute faster if you got it re-packed every time it was due, because it was more re-packs per calendar year.

And this same rigger did condem a canopy in an old backpack that was 50 years old. He said it still passed the tests on the panels where he pulled on it, but he just wasn't comfortable with putting his name on re-packing a 50 year old canopy. He did try to tear a panel that he thought might be weak to show me, but he couldn't tear it. I thought, "Fair enough. He is looking out for his friends." But, 20 years? That is to sell new product.

Send pictures of the rig. I would probably give you what you would get on trade, and I will be happy to have another spare rig.

Steve Leonard

[glidergeek]

oh no Steve I saw it first ;>)

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 12:08:23 PM UTC-5, Glidergeek wrote:
> oh no Steve I saw it first ;>)

But I asked first. :-)

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:15:33 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
> I just spoke with Strong regarding the 20 year thing. NOT SO. IF it
> passes the riggers general inspection it will be re-rigged indefinitely.
> Individual riggers may be unwilling to do a repack on an older chute
> but there is no regulation regarding this limit.
> Walt
> --
> Walt Connelly

A good idea is to send your parachute back to Strong every so often
(a mentor who'd done a lot of parachute jumping suggested 5 years).
Come to think of it, mine's about due for that.

Matt

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:43:36 AM UTC-5, Quietpilot wrote:
> It is my 1st parachute and my 1st glider too.

My apologies for missing this earlier, Quietpilot. Congratulations on your first plane! May it serve you well for as long as you like!

As to the chute, as many others have mentioned, Strong does not put a calendar life on their chutes. I would encourage you to look around your local area and see if there are other riggers that base the airworthiness of a product on its condition, not its age. And also, spend some time sitting in the glider with the chute on, even if you can't get it re-packed by that rigger. It may be that the ergonomics just don't work out and you end up wanting to get a different chute. But if it is comfortable, by all means look around for another rigger. You may trade off a chute that is comfortable for one that is not, and that will not make the experience a pleasant one.

Happy flying in your new sailplane!

Steve

[jfitch]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:08:23 AM UTC-7, Glidergeek wrote:
> oh no Steve I saw it first ;>)

I also have a Strong 303, also about 20 years old, also in near perfect shape, also cannot get it repacked locally. If someone wants it for $300, shoot me an email.

I bought a new 303 so this one is just sitting here.

[[email protected]]

Additional advantages to sending it to Strong every few years:

1) They comply with any service bulletins that are due.
2) It is the most comfortable repack that I get. The others are just so-so.

Lane

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 6:28:22 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Additional advantages to sending it to Strong every few years: 1) They comply with any service bulletins that are due. 2) It is the most comfortable repack that I get. The others are just so-so. Lane

Agree with that, Lane. Most riggers are also jumpers. And they don't spend hours sitting on the rigs they pack, so they may do things a little differently than the manufacturer would. The end result is just as good and reliable an openning when needed, but at reduced comfort when sitting.

Steve

[Roy Clark, \B6\]

Doing a little internet research, I found the following:

"The formal determination of "Time / Life" or service life of a non-military personnel parachute is still open ended and non specific. Someone must take the initiative and make a judgment
call to ground it. By comparison: "Personnel (military) parachutes have a determined service life (a maximum shelf life) without use of 16.5 years, and every personnel parachute is stamped with a manufacturing date that starts its life-cycle clock. A personnel parachute is also stamped with the date that it is first placed in service (PIS). From that point on, a parachute's service life cannot exceed 12 years. The longer the unit sits on the shelf the less service life it has once placed in service."
The Parachute Industry Association (PIA) has visited this issue without conclusion to date. Until the PIA specifies or recommends otherwise, it is the opinion of the current management at National Parachute that the maximum service life is 20 years from date of manufacture.
Emergency Parachute Manual P/N 81101-2P (Revised Dec. 2008)- 14 -"

And,:

"1.4 SERVICE LIFE
Independent testing of aged nylon materials has proven that its strength degrades over time, therefore, Para-Phernalia, Inc. and Free Flight Enterprises have established a 20-year service life from the date of component manufacture for the Softie Pilot Emergency System and the Preserve line of emergency parachutes.
1.5 Rigger Qualifications
In order to pack and maintain this parachute system, the FAA Senior or Master Rigger - or foreign equivalent - must possess an appropriate rating endorsement to their certificate. All SOFTIE models require a Back rating except the Seat model which requires a Seat rating endorsement. Because the Back models are also certified compatible with ramair parachutes when assembled with the Para-Phernalia ramair parachute deployment bag, the Rigger should be appropriately trained in the assembly and packing of these canopies prior to certifying the Softie for emergency use.
FAR 65.129 - No certificated parachute rigger may -
(e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from the procedures approved by an FAA administrator OR the
manufacturer of the parachute; or
(f) Exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he understands the current manufacturer's instructions for the operation involved.
NOTE:
ANYONE who circumvents Para-Phernalia, Inc., assembly and packing instructions, or the packing instructions of the manufacturer of any of the component parts assembled with the Softie harness and container system, is in violation of FAR Part 65.129 and is therefore performing an illegal procedure.
10 Rev. 2.0 8/09"