206B3 hydraulic failure

[Bart]

Enroute to maintenance for another matter yesterday I was cruising
at 80% and about 110kts when I noticed that I didn't seem to have
hydraulics in the upper-right to lower-left direction on the cyclic,
but movement from upper-left to lower right required no effort.
Hyd Switch was on , so I popped the breaker and all returned to normal.
I still had a bit of butt pucker factor bothering me though because
the nature of the failure didn't follow my understanding of the
solenoid and pump config. So I was thinking that itd be a real bitch
if I had to land with partial hydraulics. Flying hydraulics off isn't
that difficult, but partial would be fairly hard and I was thinking
that maybe there might be some garbage in the lines that might complicate
things even further at any moment. Nothing further happened though
and once I was on the ground, I re-checked the hydraulics system and
all was normal.

The maintenance people went over the hydraulics system with a fine
tooth comb, and discovered/fixed an electrical fault that had caused
the problem. I never did get an explanation of why it felt like I
had hydraulics in one diagonal but not the other though, and wondered
if that was just the way it was supposed to feel at that airspeed
since Id never flown hydraulics-off that fast before.

BTW: The reason I didn't attempt to slow to 60kts during the failure
was because It only took a couple seconds for me to get the hydraulics
re-enabled and I didn't want to potentially aggravate the problem any
more by disrupting the collective.

Is it supposed to feel that way at that airspeed / power setting?


On another subject as an update; I did finally add AE pop-out floats
to the Jetranger after much debate. They only netted a gross weight
increase of about 100lbs, but they slowed the machine down by about
7-10 knots depending on load. The Jetranger used to fly at 110 knots
from 640lbs of fuel down to 450lbs, and 120kts below 350Lbs of fuel
Now it flys at 105kts with heavy fuel loads and 110kts below 60 Gals.

I'm pretty happy to have them though because its a pretty nice feeling
not to worry as much about an upsidedown underwater egress in the mud at
the bottom of the water. It cost about as much as a Porsche for this
peace of mind though. My understanding is that they'll be required
anyways under the new overwater sightseeing rules once they enact that
new part 91 NPRM.

I gotta say that the trigger assembly on the collective leaves a lot
to be desired. It seems like it'd be way too easy to accidentally
deploy the things by bumping that mammoth trigger.

Bart

[Bob]

Bart... re: 206 floats:
Not to burst your bubble (pun intended), but always keep in mind that
planning a water landing, pulling the trigger and having inly ONE float
deploy gets exciting REALLY fast. I have seen that happen in the East River
in N.Y.C.. Upside down is an ABSOLUTE. Just another of the buzillion little
things to keep in the back of your head

[Jim Carriere]

"Bob" > wrote in message
.. .
> Bart... re: 206 floats:
> Not to burst your bubble (pun intended), but always keep in mind that
> planning a water landing, pulling the trigger and having inly ONE float
> deploy gets exciting REALLY fast. I have seen that happen in the East
River
> in N.Y.C.. Upside down is an ABSOLUTE. Just another of the buzillion
little
> things to keep in the back of your head

That's why they took the inflatable floats off of the navalized H-60s.

[Bart]

Yeah, I know. I mulled this over for about a year before deciding to go
ahead. One float deployment is a really low probablity with the AE
floats though. Theres six bags, so the more likely thing would be
loss of a single bag. I've wondered how much excess bouancy is built
into them. I figure theres a pretty good probablity that I'd wind up
upsidedown even with the popouts given their limited sea-height
efficacy, but I think I'd much rather be upsidedown 3 feet underwater
rather than 3 fathoms.

I'm just speculating, but I dont think a single float deployment would
be any more "exciting" than not having them at all. The videos Ive seen
of helicopters hitting the water without floats all got ugly pretty
quick too. If the left float failed it would result in not being able
to roll the machine to the to the right to make the transmission rip
off in the aft direction though... that might suck.


Bob wrote:
> Bart... re: 206 floats:
> Not to burst your bubble (pun intended), but always keep in mind that
> planning a water landing, pulling the trigger and having inly ONE float
> deploy gets exciting REALLY fast. I have seen that happen in the East River
> in N.Y.C.. Upside down is an ABSOLUTE. Just another of the buzillion little
> things to keep in the back of your head
>
>

[Charlie Weigandt]

Bart > wrote in message >...
> >
> The maintenance people went over the hydraulics system with a fine
> tooth comb, and discovered/fixed an electrical fault that had caused
> the problem. I never did get an explanation of why it felt like I
> had hydraulics in one diagonal but not the other though, and wondered
> if that was just the way it was supposed to feel at that airspeed
> since Id never flown hydraulics-off that fast before.
>
> BTW: The reason I didn't attempt to slow to 60kts during the failure
> was because It only took a couple seconds for me to get the hydraulics
> re-enabled and I didn't want to potentially aggravate the problem any
> more by disrupting the collective.
>
> Is it supposed to feel that way at that airspeed / power setting?

The reason you felt it in opposing quadrants like that is that the
cyclic portion of the hydraulic system has two servos. One boosts the
left fwd/right rear quadrants, the other boosts the right fwd/left
rear quadrants. When performing a maintenance test flight, you move
the cyclic back and forth diagonally to isolate each servo and check
their function. It sounds like you had a servo problem. Why popping
the circuit breaker helped the problem is a mystery. That CB supplies
power to the hydraulic system solenoid. The solenoid requires power
to turn the system OFF (for training and maintenance). It is designed
to be a fail safe system (system stays on if electrical power fails).
Pulling power to the hydraulic solenoid should have no effect unless
the switch was messing up.

Charlie W.

[Micbloo]

>Not to burst your bubble (pun intended), but always keep in mind that
>planning a water landing, pulling the trigger and having inly ONE float
>deploy gets exciting REALLY fast. I have seen that happen in the East River
>in N.Y.C.. Upside down is an ABSOLUTE.
>

Island Helicopters? Pulled out my scapbook and have an incident with a
206L N16959, where the ship ditched by
the Manhattan Bridge with pilot on 5 tourists on board. Landed safely, floats
deployed but then flipped over after everyone got out safely.
In Feb 1990 an Island 206L went down after take-off and for some reason the
floats werent even activated. A young boy on board was trapped when the ship
flipped over in the water and he expired.
But on the positive side a Dauphin went down and stayed afoat when the floats
activated as did another 206L.
Boy, Island sure had a number of accidents/incidents didnt they? No wonder
they went bankrupt. Their insurance rates must have been astronomical.
But I loved Island as I took my FIRST helicopter ride with them and many more
after that. Heck, sat in the front seat a few times (after jockeying for
position by knocking peiple away, LOL). Flew in the 206L, Dauphin and the
S-58T airport shuttle as me and my wife of now 20 years departed 34st to JFK
enroute to Honolulu.
Ah, thems were da days!!

Gerard

[Bob]

Gerard:

Your scrapbook serves you well. N16959 is ecactly correct. I worked for
Island as a Mechemic/Inspector for some years and get this...my wife and I
had JUST gotten off of the previous flight into E.34th St. We watched those
folks board. Another time, she and I took New York Helicopters Dauphin into
the city to see the tree. We later Returned by air to E.34 St. and the next
round trip ofter we deplaned, the Dauphin hit the bulkhead at the heliport
on landing. Kept my wife away from helicopters for some time after that. I
know it wasn't me with the hex because my career continued for some years.

Island WAS a great place to work and learn because they had a very diverse
fleet, and many customer aircraft that their repair station served. Losing
that kid was a tragedy, as well a a German tourist that went down much later
in a Dauphin, submerged, and never got his seat belt off. I wonder is I
might know you Gerard. Anyway, keep the shiney side up and the skids down.
Good luck!

[Micbloo]

>Island WAS a great place to work and learn because they had a very diverse
>fleet, and many customer aircraft that their repair station served.

Hey Bob,
They sure did have a diverse fleet. Before getting married I used to go down
to 34st
on a nice summer day and sit by the bulkhead just watching the endless stream
of sightseeing and shuttle flights.
I have a picture of one such Saturday when they had the heliport filled up with

their 206Ls, Astar, Dauphin and an S-58T and a shutdown ANG Huey. The only
open spot was the "transit" spot.
They had their share of accidents but man
they were one BUSY company back in their heyday. And I mean busy.
Do you remember Bob Barbanes from Island? He was a pretty outspoken regular
here in this
newsgroup but left one day and hasnt been
heard of since. Resigned from PHI and went to work with the new FH1100 company
and never heard anymore. We shared some nice memories from his days working at
E60St then flying with Island.
And Al Cerullo works out of Republic with
his own company.
http://www.hoverviews.com/
I see his TwinStar buzzing around the city
and past my house into/out of Republic all the time.
Those stories you wrote were pretty wild.
I know Island had a number of incidents but that never stopped me from spending
some $$$$ for the sightseeing flights. Pretty cool stuff. I took my brother
up once for his birthday (in one of the Dauphins) and my wife also. Flying
over and around Manhattan is something everyone should experience.
Take care and thanks for sharing,

Gerard

[Micbloo]

PS - here are some pictures including some blasts from the past you might
recognize,

http://www.helispot.com/photos/photographer/00598.html

Gerard

[Bob]

Gerard...

When I worked at Ialand, Bob Barbanes worked in Flight Ops. in Garden City.
He then flew a 206B (one of Island's) painted up for DHL. I actually had a
very brief exchange with him here, and then , as you said "poof". Haven't
seen nor heard from him since.

Be good.

[Micbloo]

>When I worked at Ialand, Bob Barbanes worked in Flight Ops. in Garden City.
>He then flew a 206B (one of Island's) painted up for DHL. I actually had a
>very brief exchange with him here, and then , as you said "poof". Haven't
>seen nor heard from him since.
>
Yeah, he even got rid of his AOL account.
Interesting.

Gerard

[Micbloo]

>In Feb 1990 an Island 206L went down after take-off and for some reason the
>floats werent even activated. A young boy on board was trapped when the ship
>flipped over in the water and he expired.

An interesting side note to this incident. In the book "Sky Cops" written by
ex-NYPD Aviation pilot Richard Rosenthal, Chapter 3 deals with this crash. He
writes that after the PD scuba divers freed the boy from the wreckage, one of
the Aviation Units 412s was on scene in a very low hover ready to hoist the boy
aboard and fly him to the East 34st Heliport where EMS awaited. Suddenly an FD
boat came in rapidly not only forcing the copter to break off but almost
hitting the divers. They pulled the injured youth on board the boat and began
working on him. The PD pilot tried to contact them through a number of
frequencies so they could get him aboard the copter. But to no avail. He writes
they didnt even head for shore but kept working on him.The pilot Gunny
Rupprecht was fuming and he wrote out a scathing report about the FDs
incompetence. But nothing happened and the controversy faded away. To this
day Rupprecht believes if they had hoisted the youth aboard they could have
saved his life.

Gerard

[Greg Johnsonq]

Bart wrote>>
> I gotta say that the trigger assembly on the collective leaves a lot
> to be desired. It seems like it'd be way too easy to accidentally
> deploy the things by bumping that mammoth trigger.
>
> Bart<<

You want want to look around at some operators like PHI. They had a
modifiction where they moved the collective-mounted float switch to
the cyclic with a guarded switch.
You might find this mod a little more confortable.
Greg

[Bart]

That sure would be a nicer place for it, but I think given the expense
of such a thing Im going to have to get used to it where it is.

Bart

Greg Johnsonq wrote:
> Bart wrote>>
>
>>I gotta say that the trigger assembly on the collective leaves a lot
>>to be desired. It seems like it'd be way too easy to accidentally
>>deploy the things by bumping that mammoth trigger.
>>
>>Bart<<
>
>
> You want want to look around at some operators like PHI. They had a
> modifiction where they moved the collective-mounted float switch to
> the cyclic with a guarded switch.
> You might find this mod a little more confortable.
> Greg