UAV video platform - soaring video potential?

[son_of_flubber]

An example of what the cool kids are doing when they don't have time or money to soar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma0zeE5QOs8

Hazards managed, this rig would make some great soaring videos. I'd love to see a winch launch from above (and off to the side).

Cost of the rig used to make the video:
Phantom 2 + H3-3D Gimbal ($995) AVL58 FPV Kit with Zeiss Goggles ($1150) iOSD Mini (On Screen Display) ($69)

[[email protected]]

I have a hex with FPV, 3-axis gimbal GoPro Hero 3 and a PowerFlarm. Haven't tried it with gliders in the air yet. Even so, I don't think it makes me a cool kid :-(

[son_of_flubber]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:44:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> I have a hex with FPV, 3-axis gimbal GoPro Hero 3 and a PowerFlarm. Haven't tried it with gliders in the air yet. Even so, I don't think it makes me a cool kid :-(

Anybody with a PowerFlarm on his Hex is definitely cool. That's brillant.

[[email protected]]

Here it is without camera or PF mounted. It also floats. Ask Sean Fidler why that's a good thing - along with some prop guards. ;-)

https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw1ChKkWEYLNa0p4MjN3bERQSVU&usp=docslist_api

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:18:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Here it is without camera or PF mounted. It also floats. Ask Sean Fidler why that's a good thing - along with some prop guards. ;-)
>
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw1ChKkWEYLNa0p4MjN3bERQSVU&usp=docslist_api

The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider. These bozos are flying around (illegally right now) people, vehicles, aircraft and over private property. There will be accidents. FPV flying outside line-of-sight is illegal, even below 400' and outside the 5 mi perimeter of airports.

[son_of_flubber]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:28:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:

> The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider.

That's a valid concern, but to put the risk in perspective, they weigh 3-5 pounds. Given their long-armed-structure, shape and size, a mid-air would probably be a glancing blow. A serious accident is certainly possible.

I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.

[John Carlyle]

Interesting. You have expressed on this board that you're worried about out landings, yet you're blase about a mid-air with a 3-5 pound UAV. I think your priorities are all wrong...

-John, Q3

[Bill T]

Not being antagonistic.
A 3-5 pound rock or quad copter hitting my glider at 55knts or better (glider speed) can do a lot of damage and even come through the plexiglas and knock out the pilot. A "glancing blow" on a wing would still make a pretty big hole in the leading edge or damage a horizontal and jam the elevator.

I can see another "full scale" glider, seeing a quad copter at a range that I can expect to maneuver and avoid, not so much.

Flying these birds or any RC aircraft at a public airport without airport management approval and a safety observer is against accepted AMA rules.
Flying these birds with FPV without a safety observer and out of "line of sight" of the safety observer is against AMA rules.
In the US, the FAA expects all RC operators to abide by AMA guidelines and accepted practices.

There have already been "accidents" of hobbiest pilots of quad copters losing control and causing personal injury at public events.
This already has the the FAA's attention.

BillT

[Sean Fidler]

I have formed a small non profit firm that is shooting a wide range of adventure video in 4k resolution (and stills) with a trio of (state of the art) DJI S1000s using the Zenmuse Gimbal and the state of the art Panasonic GH4 camera. I would love to shoot some glider landings and aero launches (winch launches would be a bonus).

The DJI S1000 platform shoots extremely steady, ultra high resolution video.. Far higher quality then the lower cost 1080p systems (GoPro, etc).

If you (or your club) are interested, please PM me. Of course you can have a copy if all the raw video. I live in Michigan but am willing to travel anywhere in the US or Canada. Mountain backdrops are a "like to have" but not essential.

Best,

Sean

Examples:

http://youtu.be/HEcXBhm1_Dc
http://youtu.be/iDcR_K5Y7GQ
http://youtu.be/4Vs_s6uApWs
http://youtu.be/PShZBTs2V3k
http://youtu.be/BcBgXqW6J-Y - safety parachute
http://youtu.be/j4g_gPfedw8 - layman overview
http://youtu.be/XU4rEbCxSW0 - marketing video

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:28:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
>
>
> > The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider.
>
>
>
> That's a valid concern, but to put the risk in perspective, they weigh 3-5 pounds. Given their long-armed-structure, shape and size, a mid-air would probably be a glancing blow. A serious accident is certainly possible.
>
>
>
> I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.

Dear SOF, being clueless and naive should not be an excuse for spouting nonsense. Who is going to pay for the hole in your wing or the damaged canopy or worse after that "glancing blow" you envision? Being hit on your turn to final can well bring down the glider, especially when considering a solo student pilot. This subject is not trivial and we should be unflinchingly opposed to mixing drones with piloted aircraft, including the scenarios Sean is proposing with his "non-profit". He knows that flying drones commercially is verboten right now. Wonder who is going to insure his activities?

[Sean Fidler]

Herb,

Some of your statements are grossly inaccurate. As for your opinions, you are certainly entitled to having them.

I would walk you thru how it all works, but I am certain that you have already come to a conclusion based on a preconceived and highly inaccurate idea of what I am proposing.

And for the record I already have 4 very interested parties. ;-).

Best,

Sean

[Mike the Strike]

I'm sure that this could be done safely enough, especially if the UAV is equipped with Flarm or a transponder and it avoids flying in the pattern. However, UAVs do malfunction at a higher rate than piloted aircraft and loss of control occurs quite often, even with commercial and military operators. Some care will be needed!

The main problem is the FAA's refusal to permit any commercial use, which is certainly likely to restrict any operations such as those proposed. (Not that this will prevent some guys doing it anyway).

Mike

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 7:28:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:

> The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider. These bozos are flying around (illegally right now) people, vehicles, aircraft and over private property. There will be accidents. FPV flying outside line-of-sight is illegal, even below 400' and outside the 5 mi perimeter of airports.

One word: Shotgun

Kirk
66

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

> I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.

Huh? I call BS on that! These guys are snooping spectators, not participants!

I'm for open season on all drones flying outside a strict limited airspace (RC flying field).

Kirk
(dusting off the old 12 gauge...)

[Sean Fidler]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/19/faa-warns-public-against-shooting-guns-at-drones/

http://rt.com/usa/faa-warns-against-shooting-drones-345/



On Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:20:31 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:16:38 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think the people flying these are birds-of-a-feather with glider pilots and I'd hope that we stay on friendly terms and not be antagonistic when and if our paths cross.
>
>
>
> Huh? I call BS on that! These guys are snooping spectators, not participants!
>
>
>
> I'm for open season on all drones flying outside a strict limited airspace (RC flying field).
>
>
>
> Kirk
>
> (dusting off the old 12 gauge...)

[Sean Fidler]

http://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2014/03/faas-commercial-drone-ban-shot-down-by-admin-law-judge.html

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:28:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:18:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> > Here it is without camera or PF mounted. It also floats. Ask Sean Fidler why that's a good thing - along with some prop guards. ;-)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw1ChKkWEYLNa0p4MjN3bERQSVU&usp=docslist_api
>
>
>
> The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider. These bozos are flying around (illegally right now) people, vehicles, aircraft and over private property. There will be accidents. FPV flying outside line-of-sight is illegal, even below 400' and outside the 5 mi perimeter of airports.

[Sean Fidler]

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/faa-small-drones-ban-104393.html

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:28:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:18:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> > Here it is without camera or PF mounted. It also floats. Ask Sean Fidler why that's a good thing - along with some prop guards. ;-)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw1ChKkWEYLNa0p4MjN3bERQSVU&usp=docslist_api
>
>
>
> The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider. These bozos are flying around (illegally right now) people, vehicles, aircraft and over private property. There will be accidents. FPV flying outside line-of-sight is illegal, even below 400' and outside the 5 mi perimeter of airports.

[Sean Fidler]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 12:18:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Here it is without camera or PF mounted. It also floats. Ask Sean Fidler why that's a good thing - along with some prop guards. ;-)
>
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw1ChKkWEYLNa0p4MjN3bERQSVU&usp=docslist_api

Indeed ;-)!

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:50:05 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
>... using the Zenmuse Gimbal and the state of the art Panasonic GH4 camera.

Sean. Have you ever mounted this rig on top of your horizontal stabilizer pointed forward? Does the gimbal keep the frame level with the horizon when the glider banks?

I understand that one needs to be careful with W & B and FARs, but I think some shots like this would be interesting compared to the usual fixed camera mount that tilts with the bank.

[kirk.stant]

Did you actually read the article? All the FAA did was warn that if any damage happened to other parties or property due to a shot down drone, you could get in trouble.

Well DUH! This is the USA, after all!

But it also says that the FAA cannot make laws, only regulations - and the FAA doesn't have any authority over small drones like the ones we are talking about.

So if a drone is outside the AMA-suggested area, and over a field (or my yard), and I blow it out of the sky - it's all good as long as it doesn't hit someone or something on the way down.

Heck, you can say the same thing about duck hunting!

Colorado has the right attitude...

Kirk
66

[[email protected]]

"People tend to connect the dots in the most pathological ways possible"

I think the current statistical probabilities for glider midair collisions are (in order): other gliders, powered aircraft, birds, flying squirrels, UAVs

(I need to check on the squirrels).

The mostly likely collision targets for people flying UAVs are: the surface of the Earth, trees, themselves (ask Sean Fidler), large structures (especially in urban environments), anything they are trying to video or photograph (fighter-bomber pilots call this "target fixation")

It is this last scenario that requires care, coordination and good judgement. Any effort to film gliders in motion needs to be approved, briefed and consider that UAVs (flying from the ground or by FPV) have limited visibility to other aircraft and themselves present a very small target so augmentation in terms of lights, Flarm, being at a predictable location, etc. are very important.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 9:45:36 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Herb,
>
>
>
> Some of your statements are grossly inaccurate. As for your opinions, you are certainly entitled to having them.
>
>
>
> I would walk you thru how it all works, but I am certain that you have already come to a conclusion based on a preconceived and highly inaccurate idea of what I am proposing.
>
>
>
> And for the record I already have 4 very interested parties. ;-).
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sean

Sean,
Enlighten me as to what you are proposing. I understand you want to make videos from a flying platform that is in a tight formation with a glider during take-offs and landings, even a winch-launch is mentioned. There are good and established reasons why we let aircraft take off and land one at a time, with lots of separation. Getting in formation with a glider with remotely controlled devices close to the ground sounds like Bubba's idea: hey y'all, watch this. Remember the Cadillac commercial filming a ground launch with a short rope? How did that turn out? Good luck with your 'non-commercial' drone flights.
BTW, I'm very involved in rc flying, including multi-copters.
Herb

[Dan Marotta]

Since you mentioned it...

Last month, while on downwind in our Pipistrel Sinus at Moriarty, we
were hit broadside by something. The left door frame was broken in
three places and the door folded inward horizontally in the middle. I
had to hold it out of the way while finishing the pattern and landing.

At first I thought we'd been hit by an eagle but there was no biological
evidence of that, only some deep scratches on the left side window.
Someone at the airport suggested that it could have been a UAV. Damage
was over $2000! Thank you Costello for quickly getting repairs
completed. If it was a UAV and I ever learned who was flying it, I'd
want to have a friendly chat with the fellow.

Dan Marotta

On 8/13/2014 6:28 PM, wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:18:34 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>> Here it is without camera or PF mounted. It also floats. Ask Sean Fidler why that's a good thing - along with some prop guards. ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw1ChKkWEYLNa0p4MjN3bERQSVU&usp=docslist_api
> The scary thing is that any idiot with the money to get one can endanger themselves and others, they are remarkably easy to fly. I'm just waiting for the first serious midair with a GA aircraft, a balloon or a glider. These bozos are flying around (illegally right now) people, vehicles, aircraft and over private property. There will be accidents. FPV flying outside line-of-sight is illegal, even below 400' and outside the 5 mi perimeter of airports.

[Sean Fidler]

Herb,

The camera I use (Panasonic GH4) has exceptional resolution (4k), speed with a fairly powerful lens. We are primarily shooting wide angle shots. The system does not need to be "in close" to the glider or tow aircraft. It is actually preferable to be at some distance and capture the glider within the broader scenery. All of the filming would be at a private airport in a controlled environment and no other operations would be allowed.

I am looking for 4 specific soaring shots:

1) My favorite shot will actually be from "behind" the winch vehicle location shooting down the rope towards the glider being winch launched (2-4k ft away). As the winch launch begins the system would depart the winch (in shot) and climb aggressively as the glider ascends downrange holding the same altitude as the winching glider for a period of a few seconds (perhaps 10).. This perspective would be interesting for showing the climb rate from 1000's of feet away. The winch rope (and it's curve) would likely show up well with the right lighting. I like to imagine the sensation of intense climb rate and altitude perspective change (hopefully with great scenery) that this would provide. Imagine Karl's place and the view from the top of his ridge for example.

http://vimeo.com/51897500 (see launch from winch roughly 2 min in)

It would also be interesting to get this same shot from behind the glider being launched.

2) The other aero launch shots would be from well behind the tow pair. One shot from directly behind and another off to the side. A changing angle relative to the glider during the directly behind shot (moving out to the side while climbing for example) would be impressive.

3) The landing shots would be from well away in approximately the opposite base/final position at low altitude (200 ft). The idea would be to follow the glider thru it's pattern from midfield downwind thru touchdown and rollout. At short final or as the glider overtakes the system toward the runway I could follow the glider in towards touchdown from behind and end up within a couple hundred feet as the glider rolls to a stop and the pilots exit..

Here is another good example that might provide an idea of the potential: http://youtu.be/8GMs58ihaJ8

Sean

[Morgan[_2_]]

One of our members captured some takeoff footage from behind the glider/towplane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3X4QaGJcjo

I believe this was with a Phantom quadcopter and a go pro 3. It runs out of forward speed pretty quick, but was still a fun angle to see.

Morgan



On Friday, August 15, 2014 6:21:16 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Herb,
>
>
>
> The camera I use (Panasonic GH4) has exceptional resolution (4k), speed with a fairly powerful lens. We are primarily shooting wide angle shots. The system does not need to be "in close" to the glider or tow aircraft. It is actually preferable to be at some distance and capture the glider within the broader scenery. All of the filming would be at a private airport in a controlled environment and no other operations would be allowed.
>
>
>
> I am looking for 4 specific soaring shots:
>
>
>
> 1) My favorite shot will actually be from "behind" the winch vehicle location shooting down the rope towards the glider being winch launched (2-4k ft away). As the winch launch begins the system would depart the winch (in shot) and climb aggressively as the glider ascends downrange holding the same altitude as the winching glider for a period of a few seconds (perhaps 10). This perspective would be interesting for showing the climb rate from 1000's of feet away. The winch rope (and it's curve) would likely show up well with the right lighting. I like to imagine the sensation of intense climb rate and altitude perspective change (hopefully with great scenery) that this would provide. Imagine Karl's place and the view from the top of his ridge for example.
>
>
>
> http://vimeo.com/51897500 (see launch from winch roughly 2 min in)
>
>
>
> It would also be interesting to get this same shot from behind the glider being launched.
>
>
>
> 2) The other aero launch shots would be from well behind the tow pair. One shot from directly behind and another off to the side. A changing angle relative to the glider during the directly behind shot (moving out to the side while climbing for example) would be impressive.
>
>
>
> 3) The landing shots would be from well away in approximately the opposite base/final position at low altitude (200 ft). The idea would be to follow the glider thru it's pattern from midfield downwind thru touchdown and rollout. At short final or as the glider overtakes the system toward the runway I could follow the glider in towards touchdown from behind and end up within a couple hundred feet as the glider rolls to a stop and the pilots exit.
>
>
>
> Here is another good example that might provide an idea of the potential: http://youtu.be/8GMs58ihaJ8
>
>
>
> Sean

[Bruce Hoult[_2_]]

On 2014-08-13 14:35:35 +0000, son_of_flubber said:

> An example of what the cool kids are doing when they don't have time or
> money to soar...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma0zeE5QOs8

Heli shots in places you could never take a real chopper, with the
entire system costing the same as an hour of helicopter hire.

Isn't technology great!