Tow Distribution and Quantity to obtain Private Glider

[Jamie Shore]

Let me start by saying that I understand that the answer to my question will include a large range depending on many variables. I am not looking for these variables but I am looking for the range.

MY QUESTION
Does a club or organization keep statistics on the tow distribution (different altitudes) and quantities of each tow altitude it takes to get the private glider (in the US) if the student is ab initio (starting from no aviation experience)?

I have guesses and anecdotes from glider pilots from all sectors of the gliding community so I'm not looking for things like "...about x many..." I would really like to get real data from real students or organizations that are willing to share.

If you are an individual that has recently taken their checkride, I would like to hear your numbers as well if you are willing to share.

Example (only an example, not presented as the a good answer)
20 tows to 1,000 feet AGL
25 tows to 2,000 feet AGL
35 tows to 3,000 feet AGL
1 tow to 4,000 feet AGL

MY GOAL
Develop a cost estimate RANGE for obtaining a private pilot glider for an ab initio student. Link to a rough draft of a very preliminary ESTIMATE, mereley a starting point: http://goo.gl/NlBYmH Based on the limited data that I have collected so far, the average is likely going to be higher.

Thanks,
Jamie Shore
Soaring Club of Houston

[Bill T]

As the club treasurer I could probably come up with some data on our most recent students. But it would take a lot of time.
Best would be for students to check their logbooks. I have found students both new and add-on do complete more solo flights than needed. So that would skew your data.

I do find your initial data interesting and your cost estimate is in the "ballpark" for new pilots that I have estimated. Your cost is higher due to initiation fee and higher monthly dues then our club. We do take more 4K tows during winter training.

BillT

[JB Wawrzyniak]

On Monday, September 15, 2014 8:40:20 AM UTC-4, Jamie Shore wrote:
> Let me start by saying that I understand that the answer to my question will include a large range depending on many variables. I am not looking for these variables but I am looking for the range.
>
>
>
> MY QUESTION
>
> Does a club or organization keep statistics on the tow distribution (different altitudes) and quantities of each tow altitude it takes to get the private glider (in the US) if the student is ab initio (starting from no aviation experience)?
>
>
>
> I have guesses and anecdotes from glider pilots from all sectors of the gliding community so I'm not looking for things like "...about x many..." I would really like to get real data from real students or organizations that are willing to share.
>
>
>
> If you are an individual that has recently taken their checkride, I would like to hear your numbers as well if you are willing to share.
>
>
>
> Example (only an example, not presented as the a good answer)
>
> 20 tows to 1,000 feet AGL
>
> 25 tows to 2,000 feet AGL
>
> 35 tows to 3,000 feet AGL
>
> 1 tow to 4,000 feet AGL
>
>
>
> MY GOAL
>
> Develop a cost estimate RANGE for obtaining a private pilot glider for an ab initio student. Link to a rough draft of a very preliminary ESTIMATE, mereley a starting point: http://goo.gl/NlBYmH Based on the limited data that I have collected so far, the average is likely going to be higher.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jamie Shore
>
> Soaring Club of Houston

Here was my breakdown, both pre-solo and post-solo. Checkride passed back in July:

Pre-solo (for the record I was 24 when I soloed, the ol' age = flights to solo held true for me):
11- 3k
2 - 2k
11 - 1k

Post-solo (these flights occurred prior to checkride)
11 - 3k
8 - 2k
5 - 1k

Note that this does not include rides with an instructor to maintain solo-proficiency (or currency).

[Bruce Hoult[_2_]]

On 2014-09-16 03:46:29 +0000, JB Wawrzyniak said:

> Pre-solo (for the record I was 24 when I soloed, the ol' age = flights
> to solo held true for me):
> 11- 3k
> 2 - 2k
> 11 - 1k

Gosh, I must have been terrible! I soloed on my 31st flight, at age 22.

In my defense, I guess, there were a few long soaring flights in there
on days unsuitable for a student to practice landing (or possibly
takeoff and tow) due to 20+ knot gusting wind/crosswind etc.

But it probably depends on glider type. I was in a Blanik. You may be
talking about 2-33.

These days we are teaching in DG1000 (and Grob Twin Astir before that,
since 1994). Students definitely take a little longer to solo. Maybe
25-30 flights even for 15 yr olds, and 35 - 40 flights for graduates to
30 or so.

But they take a LOT FEWER flights to go from nothing to flying solo in
high performance glass than you would by starting off in a Blanik.
EVERY flight is in high performence glass.

[JB Wawrzyniak]

On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:59:24 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On 2014-09-16 03:46:29 +0000, JB Wawrzyniak said:
>
>
>
> > Pre-solo (for the record I was 24 when I soloed, the ol' age = flights
>
> > to solo held true for me):
>
> > 11- 3k
>
> > 2 - 2k
>
> > 11 - 1k
>
>
>
> Gosh, I must have been terrible! I soloed on my 31st flight, at age 22.
>
>
>
> In my defense, I guess, there were a few long soaring flights in there
>
> on days unsuitable for a student to practice landing (or possibly
>
> takeoff and tow) due to 20+ knot gusting wind/crosswind etc.
>
>
>
> But it probably depends on glider type. I was in a Blanik. You may be
>
> talking about 2-33.
>
>
>
> These days we are teaching in DG1000 (and Grob Twin Astir before that,
>
> since 1994). Students definitely take a little longer to solo. Maybe
>
> 25-30 flights even for 15 yr olds, and 35 - 40 flights for graduates to
>
> 30 or so.
>
>
>
> But they take a LOT FEWER flights to go from nothing to flying solo in
>
> high performance glass than you would by starting off in a Blanik.
>
> EVERY flight is in high performence glass.

All Blanik L-23, our club has a Grob but I've never enjoyed flying it as much as the club Blanik or my Ka6

[[email protected]]

Jamie Shore, this is a good question so I dug out my log books and did some sorting and counting. Prospective members at our club usually ask about the costs and I must admit that I probably estimated too low at present costs.

I started my soaring journey in 1994 at the age of 54.

Soloed after 52 flights in SGS 2-33
Got my private license after 92 more flights.
The average tow height was 2,424 feet.
Total flights to license 144

102 flights in a SGS 2-33
38 Flights in a SGS 1-26
4 flights in a Blanik L13 (Our Club requires spin training before sign-off for license.)

Present Costs at our glider club for tows is $18/1000 ft and a $2.50 Hook up charge. This would amount to $6,643 for Tows. There is no charge for Glider Usage.

Initiation Fee $500
Monthly fees $55/mo (for 12 months in my case) = $660
Tows & Hookup Charges $6,643
Books and Study material $100
FAA Written Test - $150
FAA Practical Exam - $0 (Our Club had a DPE who didn't charge club members)

Total to license at present costs at our club would be $8,103.
(Tow Costs in 1994/1995 were about half of what they are presently)

Our present club fleet consists of an ASK21, Blanik L13AC, Grob 102 Astir, SGS 1-26A.

Presently flying a Hph 304CZ and have about 1,200 hours.

Charles Zabinski
Finger Lakes Soaring Club
Dansville, NY

[Bill D]

On Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:00:32 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Jamie Shore, this is a good question so I dug out my log books and did some sorting and counting. Prospective members at our club usually ask about the costs and I must admit that I probably estimated too low at present costs.
>
>
>
> I started my soaring journey in 1994 at the age of 54.
>
>
>
> Soloed after 52 flights in SGS 2-33
>
> Got my private license after 92 more flights.
>
> The average tow height was 2,424 feet.
>
> Total flights to license 144
>
>
>
> 102 flights in a SGS 2-33
>
> 38 Flights in a SGS 1-26
>
> 4 flights in a Blanik L13 (Our Club requires spin training before sign-off for license.)
>
>
>
> Present Costs at our glider club for tows is $18/1000 ft and a $2.50 Hook up charge. This would amount to $6,643 for Tows. There is no charge for Glider Usage.
>
>
>
> Initiation Fee $500
>
> Monthly fees $55/mo (for 12 months in my case) = $660
>
> Tows & Hookup Charges $6,643
>
> Books and Study material $100
>
> FAA Written Test - $150
>
> FAA Practical Exam - $0 (Our Club had a DPE who didn't charge club members)
>
>
>
> Total to license at present costs at our club would be $8,103.
>
> (Tow Costs in 1994/1995 were about half of what they are presently)
>
>
>
> Our present club fleet consists of an ASK21, Blanik L13AC, Grob 102 Astir, SGS 1-26A.
>
>
>
> Presently flying a Hph 304CZ and have about 1,200 hours.
>
>
>
> Charles Zabinski
>
> Finger Lakes Soaring Club
>
> Dansville, NY

Mid-winter 1960, Lake Elsinore, California. 6 tows in a LK-10A to solo. (No prior flight experience whatsoever.) I then flew LK's, Pratt-Reads, TG-2's and 1-26's for a year before taking the PPG check ride in a 1-26 with an FAA examiner watching from the ground.

With all that experience under my belt, I polished up my skills with a CFII then took a "one fits all" Commercial, Glider + Airplane + Instrument check ride. The FAA examiner didn't seem to mind that most of my experience was in gliders.