Sunsets Pt 7 - Lockheed P-38L.jpg (1/1)

[Mitchell Holman[_8_]]

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Mitchell Holman > wrote:

> begin 644 Lockheed P-38L.jpg
> [Image]
>
> end

Unless it is the Red Bull P-38, the lower cowls look like they belong on
a much earlier model P-38.

[John Szalay[_2_]]

Orval Fairbairn > wrote in news:orfairbairn-
:

> In article >,
> Mitchell Holman > wrote:
>
>> begin 644 Lockheed P-38L.jpg
>> [Image]
>>
>> end
>
> Unless it is the Red Bull P-38, the lower cowls look like they belong on
> a much earlier model P-38.


I was thinking the same thing, has more the intake of the F model
such as Glacier Girl.
IF it is the red Bull, P-38, its before they got their hands on it.and
still belonged to Lefty Gardner
the intakes on the top of booms are the old configuration, Red Bull changed
to the long intakes after the "crash" and rebuild..

[Savageduck[_3_]]

On 2014-10-04 20:17:12 +0000, John Szalay <john.szalay.at.att.net> said:

> Orval Fairbairn > wrote in news:orfairbairn-
> :
>
>> In article >,
>> Mitchell Holman > wrote:
>>
>>> begin 644 Lockheed P-38L.jpg
>>> [Image]
>>>
>>> end
>>
>> Unless it is the Red Bull P-38, the lower cowls look like they belong on
>> a much earlier model P-38.
>
>
> I was thinking the same thing, has more the intake of the F model
> such as Glacier Girl.
> IF it is the red Bull, P-38, its before they got their hands on it.and
> still belonged to Lefty Gardner
> the intakes on the top of booms are the old configuration, Red Bull changed
> to the long intakes after the "crash" and rebuild..

Yup! That looks nothing like the P-38L with the pronounced nacelle
"chin" and the exposed turbo superchargers out on the booms.

This is a P-38L:



....and so is this;



--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Ramsman]

On 04/10/2014 23:10, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2014-10-04 20:17:12 +0000, John Szalay <john.szalay.at.att.net> said:
>
>> Orval Fairbairn > wrote in news:orfairbairn-
>> :
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Mitchell Holman > wrote:
>>>
>>>> begin 644 Lockheed P-38L.jpg
>>>> [Image]
>>>>
>>>> end
>>>
>>> Unless it is the Red Bull P-38, the lower cowls look like they belong on
>>> a much earlier model P-38.
>>
>>
>> I was thinking the same thing, has more the intake of the F model
>> such as Glacier Girl.
>> IF it is the red Bull, P-38, its before they got their hands on it.and
>> still belonged to Lefty Gardner
>> the intakes on the top of booms are the old configuration, Red Bull
>> changed
>> to the long intakes after the "crash" and rebuild..
>
> Yup! That looks nothing like the P-38L with the pronounced nacelle
> "chin" and the exposed turbo superchargers out on the booms.
>
> This is a P-38L:
>
>
> ...and so is this;
>
>

The subject of the Red Bull P-38L (for that's what it is, see the last
part of the thread) was covered in rec.aviation.military three years ago:

**********
On 27/08/2011 10:18, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2011-08-27 01:33:04 -0700, D. St-Sanvain
> > said:
>
>> Savageduck a écrit dans
>> <news:2011082700122978840-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> :
>>> On 2011-08-26 23:23:57 -0700, (D.
>>> St-Sanvain) said:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image>
>>>
>>> Regardless of what they might claim, that is no P-38L.
>>>
>>> That Red Bull P-38 has the small, swept back "Lightning MkI & MkII"
>>> through to P-38G nacelle chin vents. Also there are no
>>> turbo-superchargers.
>>>
>>> This is a P-38L. Note the larger nacelle chin vents;
>>
>> Well... the serial number makes her a L, the external view doesn't.
>> She was used as a racer, and eventually underwent some modifications,
>> which may lead to an (X)P-38 (something) designation...
>> Same questions are asked about Zero modified T-6's...
>> Some even refer to her as a F-5 G !
>
> I remember her as Lefty Gardner's "White Lightning". The RB guys did
> this great restoration after a crash which should have written her off.
> I suspect there have been a lot of salvaged parts integrated.
> I just can't imagine an "L" without turbo-superchargers exposed on the
> booms, or the inter-coolers to go with the large chin vents.
>
> I just wonder when and why she was deprived of her distinctive "L"
> appearance.
>

There's an item about the Red Bulls fleet in the September edition of
Aircraft magazine.

It says that N25Y was built as an F-5G, 44-53254. Sold To Lilee Products
in Chicago in 1946 as NX25Y. Started racing when owned by J.D. Reed of
Houston, and Charlie Walling flew it into 2nd place in the stock race at
Miami in 1947. Camera nose removed and other mods, and named Sky Ranger.
Two more owners, Hugh Wells and Vernon Thorpe, before passing to Lefty
Gardner. He painted it R/W/B and called it White Lightnin'. It had an
engine fire in 25 June 2001 and made a belly landing in a field at
Greenwood, MS. Sold to the Flying Bulls in January 2005.

I did read somewhere about the removal of the turbosuperchargers and the
reshaping of the nacelles, but I can't remember where. I also thought
when I first saw it that it couldn't be an L model, but it seems that
officially it is.

Great to see a P-38 again at Duxford.

--
Peter
**********

--
Peter

[Ramsman]

On 06/10/2014 06:14, Savageduck wrote:
> On 2014-10-05 10:51:44 +0000, Ramsman > said:
>
>> On 04/10/2014 23:10, Savageduck wrote:
>>> On 2014-10-04 20:17:12 +0000, John Szalay <john.szalay.at.att.net> said:
>>>
>>>> Orval Fairbairn > wrote in news:orfairbairn-
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> Mitchell Holman > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> begin 644 Lockheed P-38L.jpg
>>>>>> [Image]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> end
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless it is the Red Bull P-38, the lower cowls look like they
>>>>> belong on
>>>>> a much earlier model P-38.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking the same thing, has more the intake of the F model
>>>> such as Glacier Girl.
>>>> IF it is the red Bull, P-38, its before they got their hands on it.and
>>>> still belonged to Lefty Gardner
>>>> the intakes on the top of booms are the old configuration, Red Bull
>>>> changed
>>>> to the long intakes after the "crash" and rebuild..
>>>
>>> Yup! That looks nothing like the P-38L with the pronounced nacelle
>>> "chin" and the exposed turbo superchargers out on the booms.
>>>
>>> This is a P-38L:
>>>
>>>
>>> ...and so is this;
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The subject of the Red Bull P-38L (for that's what it is, see the last
>> part of the thread) was covered in rec.aviation.military three years ago:
>>
>> **********
>> On 27/08/2011 10:18, Savageduck wrote:
>> > On 2011-08-27 01:33:04 -0700, D. St-Sanvain
>> > > said:
>> >
>> >> Savageduck a écrit dans
>> >> <news:2011082700122978840-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> :
>> >>> On 2011-08-26 23:23:57 -0700, (D.
>> >>> St-Sanvain) said:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> <image>
>> >>>
>> >>> Regardless of what they might claim, that is no P-38L.
>> >>>
>> >>> That Red Bull P-38 has the small, swept back "Lightning MkI & MkII"
>> >>> through to P-38G nacelle chin vents. Also there are no
>> >>> turbo-superchargers.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is a P-38L. Note the larger nacelle chin vents;
>> >>
>> >> Well... the serial number makes her a L, the external view doesn't.
>> >> She was used as a racer, and eventually underwent some modifications,
>> >> which may lead to an (X)P-38 (something) designation...
>> >> Same questions are asked about Zero modified T-6's...
>> >> Some even refer to her as a F-5 G !
>> >
>> > I remember her as Lefty Gardner's "White Lightning". The RB guys did
>> > this great restoration after a crash which should have written her
>> off.
>> > I suspect there have been a lot of salvaged parts integrated.
>> > I just can't imagine an "L" without turbo-superchargers exposed on the
>> > booms, or the inter-coolers to go with the large chin vents.
>> >
>> > I just wonder when and why she was deprived of her distinctive "L"
>> > appearance.
>> >
>>
>> There's an item about the Red Bulls fleet in the September edition of
>> Aircraft magazine.
>>
>> It says that N25Y was built as an F-5G, 44-53254. Sold To Lilee
>> Products in Chicago in 1946 as NX25Y. Started racing when owned by
>> J.D. Reed of Houston, and Charlie Walling flew it into 2nd place in
>> the stock race at Miami in 1947. Camera nose removed and other mods,
>> and named Sky Ranger. Two more owners, Hugh Wells and Vernon Thorpe,
>> before passing to Lefty Gardner. He painted it R/W/B and called it
>> White Lightnin'. It had an engine fire in 25 June 2001 and made a
>> belly landing in a field at Greenwood, MS. Sold to the Flying Bulls in
>> January 2005.
>
> So it isn't an actual P-38L, it is a reworked P-38G.
>
No, it isn't. See below.

>> I did read somewhere about the removal of the turbosuperchargers and
>> the reshaping of the nacelles, but I can't remember where. I also
>> thought when I first saw it that it couldn't be an L model, but it
>> seems that officially it is.
>
> Even though it was built as a "G"?
>
No, it wasn't. See below.

> I guess they can call it whatever they want even though it has no
> resemblance to an "L".
>
> The "G" lacked many innovations of the "J" & "L" such as aileron boost.
> As my father said about the "J" & "L" when they first became operational
> to replace the tired & worn "E's", "F's", & "G's", "it was as if they
> had fitted power steering." He flew "G's", "J's" & "L's" from 1942 to
> 1945 with a few months in 1943 when all of the "G's" in the SouthWest
> Pacific were battle worn and not serviceable, then he was in a P-47D
> until the "J's" & "L's" were delivered.
> Here is is in a P-36L in New Guinea:
>
>
>
>
> The most conspicuous clue that there isn't much "L" in those booms, is
> the "chinless" nacelle.
>
Appearances can be deceptive, as it was converted to its Sky Ranger
configuration. See above.

>> Great to see a P-38 again at Duxford.
>
> It's great to see a P-38 of any type anywhere now that there are only 6
> airworthy and flying.
>
> Anyway, here P-38F "Glacier Girl" with the same chinless nacelle as the
> RedBull P-38.
>
>
> ...and the obvious signature chinned nacelle of one of the other flying
> P-38L's, "Honey Bunny".
>
>
>
>

Sorry to take so long to respond, I've been busy.

The F-5G was a conversion of the P-38L and had no connection with the
P-38G, in other words the G-series F-5 had nothing to do with the
G-series P-38.

For the record, here are the basic relationships between the P-38 and
F-5 & 5, without going into detail:

F-4 P-38E
F-5A P-38G
F-5B P-38J
F-5C P-38H
F-5E P-38J
F-5F P-38L
F-5G P-38L

44-53254 was in the P-38L-5-LO production batch. I can't tell with the
information I have to hand whether it was built as a P-38L and converted
to an F-5G or was built as an F-5G on the line.

--
Peter