No Shoulder Straps?

[WAVEGURU]

I was just wondering how many glider ride operations fly passengers without shoulder straps? I would think the insurance companies would not allow this, let alone the FAA, specifically in the 2-32. Aren't they required equipment???

Boggs

[SoaringXCellence]

Only if originally installed, or by AD, or by STC.

FAA started requiring shoulder belts sometime in the 70's. I had a power plane built in 1965 that didn't have shoulder belts and the FAA never made an AD to install them. There was a STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) that installed them but it was never required.

Since the 2-place Schweizers were all designed and certified in the 60's none have an type certificate that requires it.

[Cookie]

On Saturday, October 11, 2014 9:42:14 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> I was just wondering how many glider ride operations fly passengers without shoulder straps? I would think the insurance companies would not allow this, let alone the FAA, specifically in the 2-32. Aren't they required equipment???
>
>
>
> Boggs

The 2-32's that I have flown were fitted with two, complete, independent sets of lap and shoulder straps in the rear seat. I always make my passengers wear the seat and shoulder belts, and crotch strap if so equipped..although I believe the FAR's only require the passenger to have a lap belt during take off and landing. Jut like the airlines do.


Cookie

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, October 11, 2014 9:42:14 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> I was just wondering how many glider ride operations fly passengers without shoulder straps? I would think the insurance companies would not allow this, let alone the FAA, specifically in the 2-32. Aren't they required equipment???
>
>
>
> Boggs

Let's see: You have an accident and there is an injury that "could" have been prevented by the use of the shoulder straps originally provided in the glider.
The defense for not using them would be what?
I'm not aware of any Schweizer glider since the 50's not having shoulder harnesses when built. Maybe somebody else does.
I consider them to be required on all flights.

UH

[WAVEGURU]

There have been several fatalities that could have been prevented by good shoulder straps. Many straps in 2-32s I've seen were rotten. For the price of a few rides to instal or replace, it's cheap insurance... I would refuse to fly without good shoulder straps.

Boggs

[Bruce Hoult[_2_]]

On 2014-10-11 21:28:24 +0000, Waveguru said:

> There have been several fatalities that could have been prevented by
> good shoulder straps. Many straps in 2-32s I've seen were rotten. For
> the price of a few rides to instal or replace, it's cheap insurance...
> I would refuse to fly without good shoulder straps.
> Boggs

Rotten shoulder straps? If I DI'd that glider ... or even had it handed
to me in the middle of the day ... I'd immediately write that in the
logbook as a major fault. Bingo: glider can't be flown until an
engineer inspects it and clears the fault.

[WAVEGURU]

The passengers would probably be better off not wearing belts at all than wearing just a lap belt. In the 2-32, with only the lap belts in the back seat, the victim rotates their head right into the steal bar between the front and back seat. I'm still wondering just how many 2-32s there are doing rides without proper restraints?

Boggs

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, October 12, 2014 1:08:53 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> The passengers would probably be better off not wearing belts at all than wearing just a lap belt. In the 2-32, with only the lap belts in the back seat, the victim rotates their head right into the steal bar between the front and back seat. I'm still wondering just how many 2-32s there are doing rides without proper restraints?
>
>
>
> Boggs

I'm curious as to what triggered this thread.
Care to share?
UH

[Bill T]

If they were rotten, or even missing the tags, hoe did they pass the annual inspection?
BillT

[WAVEGURU]

I started this thread after seeing a video from an operation where all three people in the 2-32 were without shoulder harnesses. In the other instance where the 2-32 had rotten shoulder straps, that operator had an old mechanic that would sign off almost anything. I think most of us have seen these kinds of mechanics over the years? I would not fly their ships and I advised my friend not to fly them, but he did anyway. My friend eventually bought new shoulder straps for that ship himself.

Boggs

[WAVEGURU]

There was also an accident a couple of years ago in Montana where the rear passenger was killed after his shoulder straps broke. I immediately replaced mine after that, even tho they looked pretty good.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Monday, October 13, 2014 7:06:06 AM UTC-6, Waveguru wrote:
> There was also an accident a couple of years ago in Montana where the rear passenger was killed after his shoulder straps broke. I immediately replaced mine after that, even tho they looked pretty good.

Both front and rear shoulder straps failed in that accident.
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/GenPDF.aspx?id=WPR11LA317&rpt=fa

[Mike the Strike]

On Monday, October 13, 2014 8:49:35 AM UTC-7, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 7:06:06 AM UTC-6, Waveguru wrote:
>
> > There was also an accident a couple of years ago in Montana where the rear passenger was killed after his shoulder straps broke. I immediately replaced mine after that, even tho they looked pretty good.
>
>
>
> Both front and rear shoulder straps failed in that accident.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/GenPDF.aspx?id=WPR11LA317&rpt=fa

...and also reinforces my suspicion that there are more crashes with simulated rope breaks than with accidental ones.

Mike

[WAVEGURU]

Oh, oh, Let's not drift away from the topic.

[WAVEGURU]

I was really hoping that all the operators that fly without shoulder harnesses would jump in here and talk to us about their reasoning? I know there are a lot of passengers given rides in 2-32s that don't wear shoulder restraints...
I guess I'm flogging a dead horse? Move on... There's nothing to see here.

[Bill T]

I've never known a DPE to thoroughly brief a rope break maneuver on a check ride.
The shoulder harnesses failed after bending their attachment points?

BillT