USMC Huey Crash Photos

[Mike \Rotor\ Nowak]

Hey All,

I just came across these photos and am curious if anyone knows the story of
what happened. Weather sure looks clear so I doubt that had anything to do
with it...

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059375&size=medium

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059367&size=medium

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059374&size=medium

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059373&size=medium

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059376&size=medium

Sure looks like a ****ty situation to me but I don't recall hearing of this
crash...

-Mike

[Sal]

Weather looks clear, huh? What planet do you call your home?
Having seen a few...that's a tail low landing.

[Larry]

"Mike "Rotor" Nowak" strained himself to utter the words: "Weather sure
looks clear so I doubt that had anything to do
with it..."

Uhm, Excuse me? The weather can 'clear' faster than the smoke can dissipate.

With no indication how long after the crash this pic was taken, I'd say the
'current' weather in the photo has NO relation to the weather during the
crash.

My 2 cents.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'
20 years if gettin 'em off the pointy end
AND safely home again!




"Mike "Rotor" Nowak" > wrote in message
news:ar2yc.9623$fZ1.6227@fed1read03...
> Hey All,
>
> I just came across these photos and am curious if anyone knows the story
of
> what happened. Weather sure looks clear so I doubt that had anything to
do
> with it...
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059375&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059367&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059374&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059373&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059376&size=medium
>
> Sure looks like a ****ty situation to me but I don't recall hearing of
this
> crash...
>
> -Mike
>
>

[Al Denelsbeck]

"Sal" > wrote in
:

> Weather looks clear, huh? What planet do you call your home?

These weren't taken by the Mars Rover? ;-)


> Having seen a few...that's a tail low landing.

Understand, I haven't seen any, so I'm asking for clarification, and
not challenging you on this, but could you explain more?

I understand a tail strike, and deflecting the main rotor into the
tailboom. And this fits with the pitch of the blades on both rotors (though
in an accident situation this isn't indicative of anything). But both skids
being sprung and the noticeable forward motion, apparently following the
gear collapse, seems like an awfully hard contact even for someone coming
in with a heavy flare. Am I misinterpreting things?

Potentially, I guess I could see it if he was coming in damn fast and
flared to arrest the forward motion, too low to safely do so. But I would
hope this wasn't the case, since that strikes me as a needlessly reckless
approach. I'm open to correction.


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Mike \Rotor\ Nowak]

One more,

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059368&size=medium

I was being sarcastic about the wx.. it looks like these pics were fairly
recent after the crash, with no calvary there ot help things out -- plus, in
the above pic, it looks like they're disconnecting the batt, something I
doubt they'd wait long after the crash to do...

From what the thing looks like, I'd agree that it was a tail chop job... but
I'm interested in the story behind what happened. They pulled the equipment
out, the door guns look to have been pulled, and I can even see a permiter
being established in some of the pics, which leads me to believe it's behind
the lines. Just curious what happened.

-Mike

"Mike "Rotor" Nowak" > wrote in message
news:ar2yc.9623$fZ1.6227@fed1read03...
> Hey All,
>
> I just came across these photos and am curious if anyone knows the story
of
> what happened. Weather sure looks clear so I doubt that had anything to
do
> with it...
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059375&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059367&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059374&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059373&size=medium
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059376&size=medium
>
> Sure looks like a ****ty situation to me but I don't recall hearing of
this
> crash...
>
> -Mike
>
>

[Bob]

My opinion saying tail low landing was drawn from these parameters:

A) No apparent MRB Damages from possibly hitting the tailboom

B) No apparent damage to tail rotor blades as from strikin the ground under
power (tial rotors stop pretty damned fast when the T/R driveshaft is
sheared and probably jammed.

C) The angle of the sheared off tailboom appears to be from a forward motion
of the aircraft and a groumd strike causing that angular appearance.

I don't know that bird, but the stinger looks more like a car antenna as if
maybe a bit is missing to be found further behind.
I'm supposing after 20 yars of heavy helicopter maintenance. All my
bull**** and a quarter will buy me a phone call.

[AnyBody43]

"Bob" > wrote in message >...
> My opinion saying tail low landing was drawn from these parameters:
>
> A) No apparent MRB Damages from possibly hitting the tailboom
>
> B) No apparent damage to tail rotor blades as from strikin the ground under
> power (tial rotors stop pretty damned fast when the T/R driveshaft is
> sheared and probably jammed.
>
> C) The angle of the sheared off tailboom appears to be from a forward motion
> of the aircraft and a groumd strike causing that angular appearance.
>
> I don't know that bird, but the stinger looks more like a car antenna as if
> maybe a bit is missing to be found further behind.
> I'm supposing after 20 yars of heavy helicopter maintenance. All my
> bull**** and a quarter will buy me a phone call.

Hi,
I have little or no knowledge of helicopters however I do have a
ruler. When looking at:
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059374
if I put my ruler along the snapped off tail it passes right
through the rotor head. Maybe it is a coincidence but I
am pretty convinced that the tail was chopped off by the rotor.

The cut is also VERY clean.
Is that the tail rotor shaft on the ground under the tail cone?

Finally, does:
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059373
show the tail cut off in the direction of the rotor rotation.

I seem to recall stories of Hueys chopping trees with the rotor. The
tail cone seems unlikely to be tougher than even quite a small tree.

[Hawkdoc]

Mike, I'm glad to see you know something about perimeter security and
aircraft recovery or even a UH-1. These pictures look like they were taken
by the DART team (Downed Aircraft Recovery Team). Perimeter security is
pulled even on aircraft crashes in the states to keep site seers and
vultures from contaminating the site. And isn't almost anyplace off base
still Indian country? Most battery's were upgraded to the AH-1's and
relocated to the tailboom for weight and balance. Notice no big battery
disconnect? What your seeing is Nav, COMSEC and commo gear in the nose. The
fact that the Marines are standing on the Boom to allow the inspection of
the nose and the fact the CPG's green house is missing a huge chunk might
indicate battle damage. Also, it appears that both counter measures pods
have been used. What strikes me as odd are that both skid gear are on the
left side next to the fuselage and the unusual dent pattern on the top of
the skid under the aircraft. You will notice what appear to be skid marks
at an angle to the aircraft. But, the oddest part is that taliboom is off
to the side and in front of the aircraft. The blades show no strike damage
from the boom or the ground. Possibly due to the fact tail rotor wasn't
turning when it landed where it is in the picture, which might suggest it
wasn't turning on impact, there is no torn up ground. I'm guessing either
tail rotor or tail shaft failure. Or possibly they hit the boom on one of
the nearby bearms (notice the dent on the boom in front of the separation).
This wasn't a low tail, high nose impact evident by the fact the tail
stinger is not bent. But, hey I wasn't there what do I know? I just hope
and pray that the crew and pax walked away to **** and bleed and hoist a
cold one to one more landing.

James Wilson
Former DART Team leader, TI OH-58 A/C, KW, AH-1S/E/F, UH-1D, UH-60A/L

"Mike "Rotor" Nowak" > wrote in message
news:7b8yc.10376$fZ1.3750@fed1read03...
> One more,
>
> http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059368&size=medium
>
> I was being sarcastic about the wx.. it looks like these pics were fairly
> recent after the crash, with no calvary there ot help things out -- plus,
in
> the above pic, it looks like they're disconnecting the batt, something I
> doubt they'd wait long after the crash to do...
>
> From what the thing looks like, I'd agree that it was a tail chop job...
but
> I'm interested in the story behind what happened. They pulled the
equipment
> out, the door guns look to have been pulled, and I can even see a permiter
> being established in some of the pics, which leads me to believe it's
behind
> the lines. Just curious what happened.
>
> -Mike
>
> "Mike "Rotor" Nowak" > wrote in message
> news:ar2yc.9623$fZ1.6227@fed1read03...
> > Hey All,
> >
> > I just came across these photos and am curious if anyone knows the story
> of
> > what happened. Weather sure looks clear so I doubt that had anything to
> do
> > with it...
> >
> >
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059375&size=medium
> >
> >
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059367&size=medium
> >
> >
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059374&size=medium
> >
> >
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059373&size=medium
> >
> >
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00059376&size=medium
> >
> > Sure looks like a ****ty situation to me but I don't recall hearing of
> this
> > crash...
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> >
>
>

[Micbloo]

>Subject: Re: USMC Huey Crash

>Just curious what happened.

Then e-mail the photographer who is listed at the bottom.

[Griffin 704]

If I'm not mistaken these are photos of UH-1N from HMLA-169 that
crashed at Jalibah FARP on 30 Mar 2003, killing the pilot Capt. Aaron
J. Contreras, Crew Chief Sgt. Michael V. Lalush and Sgt. Brian D.
McGinnis.

The second photo you will see on the nose just above the pilots chin
bubble, "Crew Chief M. Lalush". The A/C crashed on takeoff.

[Tim]

The tail is definately chopped off by the rotor, the a/c came in kinda
sideways and ripped the skids off. That is what you see under the tail boom.
You will not necessarily see noticable damage to the blades in this type of
strike untill you look up close. If he would have hit tail low, the "rip"
damage to the tail boom would have been upward instead of to the right,
which is consistant with rotor direction on Hueys. Also notice one of the
push pull rods is broken off the mast. But due to the blades flexing that
low to take off the tail boom he must have had low rotor rpm so it is
possible that he was in an autorotation when he was coming down, engine
failure or t/r failure. Looks like they are trying to salvage anything of
value before they are lifted out, since they are all on the tail lifting the
nose, maybe to get the FLIR equipment from under the nose.

"Griffin 704" > wrote in message
om...
> If I'm not mistaken these are photos of UH-1N from HMLA-169 that
> crashed at Jalibah FARP on 30 Mar 2003, killing the pilot Capt. Aaron
> J. Contreras, Crew Chief Sgt. Michael V. Lalush and Sgt. Brian D.
> McGinnis.
>
> The second photo you will see on the nose just above the pilots chin
> bubble, "Crew Chief M. Lalush". The A/C crashed on takeoff.

[Mike \Rotor\ Nowak]

Doesn't look like thats the right crew... the pilots spot has the name "Cpl.
Alexander" written on it, and the pilots side crew door has "Crew Chief Cxx
DxxL" on it. Unless it was a swapped crew? Not familair with if they do
that.

Doesn't look like any fatalities to me. I don't see any bodies, any signs
of anyone tending to wounded crew, and no medical gear strewn about. Unless
they all died at the hospital, and even then, there had to be some down time
between impact and pickup, in which I'd imagine there would be a site of
medical aid.

-Mike

"Griffin 704" > wrote in message
om...
> If I'm not mistaken these are photos of UH-1N from HMLA-169 that
> crashed at Jalibah FARP on 30 Mar 2003, killing the pilot Capt. Aaron
> J. Contreras, Crew Chief Sgt. Michael V. Lalush and Sgt. Brian D.
> McGinnis.
>
> The second photo you will see on the nose just above the pilots chin
> bubble, "Crew Chief M. Lalush". The A/C crashed on takeoff.

[Greenwood_Ranches]

Doesn't look like thats the right crew... the pilots spot has the name "Cpl.
Alexander" written on it, and the pilots side crew door has "Crew Chief Cxx
DxxL" on it. Unless it was a swapped crew? Not familair with if they do
that.

Doesn't look like any fatalities to me. I don't see any bodies, any signs
of anyone tending to wounded crew, and no medical gear strewn about. Unless
they all died at the hospital, and even then, there had to be some down time
between impact and pickup, in which I'd imagine there would be a site of
medical aid.

-Mike

"Griffin 704" wrote in message
om...
If I'm not mistaken these are photos of UH-1N from HMLA-169 that
crashed at Jalibah FARP on 30 Mar 2003, killing the pilot Capt. Aaron
J. Contreras, Crew Chief Sgt. Michael V. Lalush and Sgt. Brian D.
McGinnis.

The second photo you will see on the nose just above the pilots chin
bubble, "Crew Chief M. Lalush". The A/C crashed on takeoff.

I notice that this is a pretty old post but i just happened to stumble uppon it and couldn't resist putting a word in.

I joined HMLA 169 a few months after the fatal UH-1N crash in March 03. I'm pretty sure this is not that crash. Stranger things have happened, but I've seen worse crashes than this and the crew survived. In fact, I would call this a "hard landing" more than a crash. These things tend to be unrecognizable if they really crash... I think in a few of the pictures, they guys lying and sleeping on the gear next to aircraft are probably the crew. Would you sleep on a dead comrade's gear?

The names on the side of the aircraft usually mean very little. Also, Each squadron has there own unique way of painting things and HLMA 169 birds usually have a maltese cross on them (the units logo) This one looks like it has some kind of logo on the panel above the sliding cabin door. I don't recognize it so its most likely an "east coast" squadron if I had to guess.

So I'll tell you what I do know:

plus, in
the above pic, it looks like they're disconnecting the batt, something I
doubt they'd wait long after the crash to do...

Notice no big battery
disconnect?

I would say that they are probably the pilots and yes, they look to be disconnecting the battery. That bottom part of the nose also opens to remove the battery, you can't see it in the picture so you can't see the cable and disconnect...

My opinion saying tail low landing was drawn from these parameters:

A) No apparent MRB Damages from possibly hitting the tailboom

B) No apparent damage to tail rotor blades as from strikin the ground under
power (tial rotors stop pretty damned fast when the T/R driveshaft is
sheared and probably jammed.

C) The angle of the sheared off tailboom appears to be from a forward motion
of the aircraft and a groumd strike causing that angular appearance.

I don't know that bird, but the stinger looks more like a car antenna as if
maybe a bit is missing to be found further behind.
I'm supposing after 20 yars of heavy helicopter maintenance. All my
bull**** and a quarter will buy me a phone call.



I worked on these things for 5 years, they're not quite as tough as a heavy helicopter would be.

Main rotor took out the tail boom. (The tail boom is light weight, two men can lift it without the gear boxes.) The bird came in hard, belly first with little forward air speed, broke the skids (you can even see a deep impact from the skid in one image) The force of the impact caused the rotor to drop low enough to take out the tail boom.

The stinger is in tact, thats just how small it is. Doesn't look like it hit anything to me.

What strikes me as odd are that both skid gear are on the
left side next to the fuselage and the unusual dent pattern on the top of
the skid under the aircraft. You will notice what appear to be skid marks
at an angle to the aircraft. But, the oddest part is that taliboom is off
to the side and in front of the aircraft

The aircraft bounced and turned a little, leaving both skids where they broke, thus both skids being on one side. Luckily for the crew, they didn't roll it.

Force of the blow from the main rotor threw the tail boom in front and right of the initial crash sight. (blades go ctr clkwise)

Also, it appears that both counter measures pods
have been used.

These things went off all of the time, almost randomly it seemed. Hell, I almost got taken out by one when a huey was coming in to land. The system seemed to go off any time it saw a flash, wether it was really a rocket firing or just the glint off of a car window or tin roof...

If I had to put a guess about what actually caused the crash, I would say it was an engine failure or collective problem of some kind. The crew looks to calm to have taken fire and gone down. If you had just been shot down in hostile territory, would take your gun off of its mount and take a nap?

I think they had control of the tail rotor when it came it because the aircraft only yawed after impact, and it did so in the opposite direction it would have went if it had lost tail rotor control. Plus, you've only got a 15% chance of SURVIVAL if you loose the tail rotor, let alone a nice pretty landing like this...

[zgerm01]

Well, I was with HML/A-167 during the time of this crash and know the crew. The crew was from HML/1-269 and this was during the invasion phase of OIF. The crew flying this was not who is written on the outside. No one was killed in this crash. The main rotor did slice the tail boom off. I wont go any further to protect the names of those involved, but that's it.

As a side note, I was doing OJT with HML/A-169 during the time of their previously mentioned crash. I attended the funeral on base and very briefly knew the crew. Their crash occurred not long before this one.



I notice that this is a pretty old post but i just happened to stumble uppon it and couldn't resist putting a word in.

I joined HMLA 169 a few months after the fatal UH-1N crash in March 03. I'm pretty sure this is not that crash. Stranger things have happened, but I've seen worse crashes than this and the crew survived. In fact, I would call this a "hard landing" more than a crash. These things tend to be unrecognizable if they really crash... I think in a few of the pictures, they guys lying and sleeping on the gear next to aircraft are probably the crew. Would you sleep on a dead comrade's gear?

The names on the side of the aircraft usually mean very little. Also, Each squadron has there own unique way of painting things and HLMA 169 birds usually have a maltese cross on them (the units logo) This one looks like it has some kind of logo on the panel above the sliding cabin door. I don't recognize it so its most likely an "east coast" squadron if I had to guess.

So I'll tell you what I do know:





I would say that they are probably the pilots and yes, they look to be disconnecting the battery. That bottom part of the nose also opens to remove the battery, you can't see it in the picture so you can't see the cable and disconnect...





I worked on these things for 5 years, they're not quite as tough as a heavy helicopter would be.

Main rotor took out the tail boom. (The tail boom is light weight, two men can lift it without the gear boxes.) The bird came in hard, belly first with little forward air speed, broke the skids (you can even see a deep impact from the skid in one image) The force of the impact caused the rotor to drop low enough to take out the tail boom.

The stinger is in tact, thats just how small it is. Doesn't look like it hit anything to me.



The aircraft bounced and turned a little, leaving both skids where they broke, thus both skids being on one side. Luckily for the crew, they didn't roll it.

Force of the blow from the main rotor threw the tail boom in front and right of the initial crash sight. (blades go ctr clkwise)



These things went off all of the time, almost randomly it seemed. Hell, I almost got taken out by one when a huey was coming in to land. The system seemed to go off any time it saw a flash, wether it was really a rocket firing or just the glint off of a car window or tin roof...

If I had to put a guess about what actually caused the crash, I would say it was an engine failure or collective problem of some kind. The crew looks to calm to have taken fire and gone down. If you had just been shot down in hostile territory, would take your gun off of its mount and take a nap?

I think they had control of the tail rotor when it came it because the aircraft only yawed after impact, and it did so in the opposite direction it would have went if it had lost tail rotor control. Plus, you've only got a 15% chance of SURVIVAL if you loose the tail rotor, let alone a nice pretty landing like this...