View Full Version : reliable, economical helicopters
does anybody have any advice on econoical and reliabe helicopters?
I am a private pilot,considering getting into helo.
rotorways look good. any input?
what kind of annual expenses would I expect to incur?
thanks
Glenn
Rotorway's are good. The safari is also good and is gear driven, but
a lot more money. The lowest cost gear driven helicopter kit is the
helicycle. The last I heard, it was going for around $30K and comes
with a turbine engine.
On the other hand, you can probably find a used R22 somewhere for
around $50K - $75K (with time still on it).
Reportedly, the Safari is the lowest cost to operate. However, the
helicycle may also be low, but I haven't heard anything about it in
that respect.
Dennis.
wrote:
> does anybody have any advice on econoical and reliabe helicopters?
> I am a private pilot,considering getting into helo.
> rotorways look good. any input?
> what kind of annual expenses would I expect to incur?
> thanks
>
> Glenn
>
>
>
>
Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
This topic comes up a couple of times a year. Try a google search.
Somewhere, there's a cost comparison of the rotorway and R22.
Joe
> wrote in message
...
>
> Rotorway's are good. The safari is also good and is gear driven, but
> a lot more money. The lowest cost gear driven helicopter kit is the
> helicycle. The last I heard, it was going for around $30K and comes
> with a turbine engine.
>
> On the other hand, you can probably find a used R22 somewhere for
> around $50K - $75K (with time still on it).
>
> Reportedly, the Safari is the lowest cost to operate. However, the
> helicycle may also be low, but I haven't heard anything about it in
> that respect.
>
> Dennis.
>
> wrote:
>
> > does anybody have any advice on econoical and reliabe helicopters?
> > I am a private pilot,considering getting into helo.
> > rotorways look good. any input?
> > what kind of annual expenses would I expect to incur?
> > thanks
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
>
>
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 00:41:55 GMT, wrote:
>
>Rotorway's are good.
Rotorways are OK if you enjoy spending "x" (where "x" is a number around
"5") hours wrenching on the beast per flight hour. That is what turned
me off of that brand - I want to fly, not maintain, the aircraft. I'm
not so much a mechanic-sort of person. (The other thing that makes me
nervous is the tail rotor drive belt setup - I'd prefer a shaft drive
for some reason.)
Based on the research I've done, the CH-7 Kompress (until recently, sold
in the US by Lancair) and possibly the "Baby Belle" (not its current
name, since Bell Helicopter went after 'em a while back - its name is
now the Safari) would be on my shopping list for kit-built helicopters.
That said, I don't have too much data on how much wrench time per flight
hour those aircraft need - that sort of info on the Kompress in
particular is hard to come by.
Based on what I've learned, I'd rather buy a high-timed R22 (e.g. around
1500-1800 hours) than a kit-built helicopter, if the price is right (and
note that Robinsons hold their value pretty well, unlike a kit-based one
which has comparatively little resale value). I like the ideer of FAA
certification for some reason 8^) .
Dave Blevins
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego <skiddz *AT* adelphia *DOT* net> wrote:
> Isn't the 2200 hr overhaul on the R22 about $100k?? How much time
> (realistically) can you expect to "have left" on a $50k R22?
Probably not much, but it depends on the model. I am probably leaving
out a few, but I know there was the Alpha, Beta and Beta II for sure.
Some of these models sold new from the factory for $50K. But that was
a while back.
Newer models are going for around $180K so you probably wont find a
timed out one for less than $80K. However, an alpha might be a
different story. I saw a flying, but timed out, alpha on ebay several
months ago for $25K. Oddly engough, nobody bid on it, but others have
come and gone for more.
Dennis.
Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
Stu & Kathy Fields
July 5th 04, 11:20 PM
blave: I've got over 180hrs on my "Baby Belle" and I'm sure that I don't
have any where near 20hrs.that is logable to maintenance. It has been
pretty much: change the oil and filter. Now this doesn't count the
modifications that I've done (I'm a piddler) or the hours replacing stuff
that didn't work that I tried out. I just replaced a starter but that was
due to my fooling around and ignoring a very minor(3min.) maintenance item.
Stu Fields Baby Belle driver.
> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 00:41:55 GMT, wrote:
>
> >
> >Rotorway's are good.
>
> Rotorways are OK if you enjoy spending "x" (where "x" is a number around
> "5") hours wrenching on the beast per flight hour. That is what turned
> me off of that brand - I want to fly, not maintain, the aircraft. I'm
> not so much a mechanic-sort of person. (The other thing that makes me
> nervous is the tail rotor drive belt setup - I'd prefer a shaft drive
> for some reason.)
>
> Based on the research I've done, the CH-7 Kompress (until recently, sold
> in the US by Lancair) and possibly the "Baby Belle" (not its current
> name, since Bell Helicopter went after 'em a while back - its name is
> now the Safari) would be on my shopping list for kit-built helicopters.
> That said, I don't have too much data on how much wrench time per flight
> hour those aircraft need - that sort of info on the Kompress in
> particular is hard to come by.
>
> Based on what I've learned, I'd rather buy a high-timed R22 (e.g. around
> 1500-1800 hours) than a kit-built helicopter, if the price is right (and
> note that Robinsons hold their value pretty well, unlike a kit-based one
> which has comparatively little resale value). I like the ideer of FAA
> certification for some reason 8^) .
>
> Dave Blevins
I'm curious. What did you do or not do that broke the starter?
Dennis.
"Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
> blave: I've got over 180hrs on my "Baby Belle" and I'm sure that I don't
> have any where near 20hrs.that is logable to maintenance. It has been
> pretty much: change the oil and filter. Now this doesn't count the
> modifications that I've done (I'm a piddler) or the hours replacing stuff
> that didn't work that I tried out. I just replaced a starter but that was
> due to my fooling around and ignoring a very minor(3min.) maintenance item.
Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
Stu & Kathy Fields
July 6th 04, 04:28 AM
During pre-flight, I turn the main rotor backwards. If the clutch is
dragging it tries to turn the engine also. In this case the Clutch was
getting sticky requiring the starter to turn both the engine and the rotor.
Normally just a little brake cleaner followed with a drop or two of engine
oil does the trick. But no..I was in a hurry. Starter began cranking and
then a crack was heard and the starter when ballistic.
My mother raised ugly and dumb children at least one...
Stu Fields
> wrote in message
...
>
> I'm curious. What did you do or not do that broke the starter?
>
> Dennis.
>
>
> "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
>
> > blave: I've got over 180hrs on my "Baby Belle" and I'm sure that I
don't
> > have any where near 20hrs.that is logable to maintenance. It has been
> > pretty much: change the oil and filter. Now this doesn't count the
> > modifications that I've done (I'm a piddler) or the hours replacing
stuff
> > that didn't work that I tried out. I just replaced a starter but that
was
> > due to my fooling around and ignoring a very minor(3min.) maintenance
item.
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
>
>
Now I have to ask what type of clutch mechanism is being used.
Everything I have seen under the covers, R22, helicycle, Rotorway, all
use a belt tensioning clutch. Does the sadari use something else?
Dennis.
"Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
> During pre-flight, I turn the main rotor backwards. If the clutch is
> dragging it tries to turn the engine also. In this case the Clutch was
> getting sticky requiring the starter to turn both the engine and the rotor.
> Normally just a little brake cleaner followed with a drop or two of engine
> oil does the trick. But no..I was in a hurry. Starter began cranking and
> then a crack was heard and the starter when ballistic.
> My mother raised ugly and dumb children at least one...
> Stu Fields
Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
Stu & Kathy Fields
July 6th 04, 04:28 PM
Yep The Safari uses a centrifugal clutch with shoes and clutch linning.
Invariably some dirt(I fly in the Mojave desert) and oil can accumulate in
the clutch making it get a bit sticky. This is especially true if the owner
is not careful with the transmission oil drain or transmission chip detector
installation(I'm learning to be more careful). The ONLY belt on the Safari
drives the alternator. Not counting the seatbelts.
Stu Fields
> wrote in message
...
>
> Now I have to ask what type of clutch mechanism is being used.
> Everything I have seen under the covers, R22, helicycle, Rotorway, all
> use a belt tensioning clutch. Does the sadari use something else?
>
> Dennis.
>
> "Stu & Kathy Fields" > wrote:
>
> > During pre-flight, I turn the main rotor backwards. If the clutch is
> > dragging it tries to turn the engine also. In this case the Clutch was
> > getting sticky requiring the starter to turn both the engine and the
rotor.
> > Normally just a little brake cleaner followed with a drop or two of
engine
> > oil does the trick. But no..I was in a hurry. Starter began cranking
and
> > then a crack was heard and the starter when ballistic.
> > My mother raised ugly and dumb children at least one...
> > Stu Fields
>
> Dennis Hawkins
> n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)
>
> "A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
> A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
> A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."
>
> To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
> them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
> web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
> video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm
>
>
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 01:09:33 -0700, The OTHER Kevin in San Diego <skiddz
*AT* adelphia *DOT* net> wrote:
>
>Isn't the 2200 hr overhaul on the R22 about $100k??
Something like that.
> How much time
>(realistically) can you expect to "have left" on a $50k R22?
I was thinking more in the $75K range - that's ostensibly what a
Kompress costs with engine. But anyway I've seen timed-out R22s for
$30K... There's a rough formula for how much an R22 flight hour is worth
in this analysis - I don't know what that formula is, but the $20k-45k
difference between a timed-out one and a high-time one translates
directly into flight hours.
I personally would be lucky to put 50 hours a year on a ship (which of
course means that I should continue to rent as I have been doing, but
ownership continues to be tempting *someday* nonetheless) so an R22 that
has 300 or 400 hours left on it could last years. On the other hand,
perhaps if I had my own aircraft I'd fly more, since I'd be paying
insurance and such no matter how many or few hours were flown... Hmmm.
Dave Blevins
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