Interesting picture Yorktown in reverse, landing plane

[a425couple]

Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
land, flying in over her bow.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg

Some of the discussion from:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm

"NS021037
USS Yorktown going at 20kts full astern, ready to take aircraft landing
over the bow. The midships and after flight deck is full of parked aircraft,
the deck-edge radio masts are folded down to the side for flight operations.
Note four 40mm quads grouped around the island (USN photo, possibly
taken not long before image NS021019, below)."

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
"NS021019
The Yorktown steams full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow,
July 1943. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design
requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was
soon eliminated."

From a discussion at the newsgroup
alt.binaries.pictures.military

[john szalay]

"a425couple" > wrote in

> The Yorktown steams full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow,
> July 1943. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design
> requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was
> soon eliminated."
>
>

IIRC: same as with the hanger deck catapult , out the side..

[a425couple]

"john szalay" <john.szalayatatt.net> wrote in message...
> "a425couple" > wrote in
>> The Yorktown steams full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow,
>> July 1943. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design
>> requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was
>> soon eliminated."
>
> IIRC: same as with the hanger deck catapult , out the side..

Side??
OK, below is proof of that.
But I also was pretty sure that I've seen pictures (and some words)
of the early Essex having a catapult to launch straight out
the front of the hanger deck. ??

Meanwhile, as to side:
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/414954/Re-Hanger-Deck-Catapults#.VMk1fSwb3nE
pictures, and
"The hanger deck catapult looked like a good idea on paper.
A third cat would allow for more aircraft to be launched, and
you could still launch an observation plane or fighter even if the
flight deck was unavailable, such as when aircraft were spotted
to the forward part of the flightdeck to allow planes to land aft.
But in practice it proved to be of little value: because it pointed
to the side it did not benefit from the wind over the deck adding
lift to the aircraft, so the hanger deck cat could not launch aircraft
that were as heavy as the deck cats could. In addition, problem
of not being able to launch planes when everything was spotted
forward was solved by the deck cats themselves, which needed
very little space to launch even a fully loaded aircraft. Enterprise
reported at the end of 1941 that she had only fired her hanger
cat three times in the entire year (for training, never out of need),
so the Captain asked to have it removed. The Navy agreed that
hanger cats were not worth the weight and they were removed
from all US carriers "

[Daryl[_3_]]

On 1/28/2015 11:21 AM, a425couple wrote:
> Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
> the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
> her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
> land, flying in over her bow.
>
> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
>
> Some of the discussion from:
> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm
>
> "NS021037
> USS Yorktown going at 20kts full astern, ready to take aircraft landing
> over the bow. The midships and after flight deck is full of parked
> aircraft,
> the deck-edge radio masts are folded down to the side for flight
> operations.
> Note four 40mm quads grouped around the island (USN photo, possibly
> taken not long before image NS021019, below)."
>
> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
> "NS021019
> The Yorktown steams full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow,
> July 1943. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design
> requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was
> soon eliminated."
>
> From a discussion at the newsgroup
> alt.binaries.pictures.military
>

That might be true except this Pic is photshopped. The wake doesn't fit
the rest of the picture.


--
Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of
the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on
the Internet.

[John Weiss[_5_]]

Daryl wrote:

> > Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
> > the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
> > her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
> > land, flying in over her bow.
> >
> > http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
> >
> > Some of the discussion from:
> > http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm
>
> That might be true except this Pic is photshopped. The wake doesn't
> fit the rest of the picture.

Wake looks consistent to me...

[john szalay]

"John Weiss" > wrote in news:xn0jhkgb8774fd4000
@news.eternal-september.org:

> Daryl wrote:
>
>> > Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
>> > the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
>> > her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
>> > land, flying in over her bow.
>> >
>> > http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
>> >
>> > Some of the discussion from:
>> > http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm
>>
>> That might be true except this Pic is photshopped. The wake doesn't
>> fit the rest of the picture.
>
> Wake looks consistent to me...

likewise, to me as well.. looks legit...

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

john szalay wrote:

> "a425couple" > wrote in
>
>
>>The Yorktown steams full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow,
>>July 1943. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design
>>requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was
>>soon eliminated."
>>
>>
>
>
> IIRC: same as with the hanger deck catapult , out the side..

Rather than spam our newsgroup with ww2 stuff perhaps you could start
a new newsgroup for old technology...perhaps alt.old.technology.military.

just a suggestion
;-)

[Daryl[_3_]]

On 1/28/2015 2:36 PM, John Weiss wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
>>> the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
>>> her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
>>> land, flying in over her bow.
>>>
>>> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
>>>
>>> Some of the discussion from:
>>> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm
>>
>> That might be true except this Pic is photshopped. The wake doesn't
>> fit the rest of the picture.
>
> Wake looks consistent to me...
>

I blew it up and checked where the wake meets the ship.

--
Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of
the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on
the Internet.

[Daryl[_3_]]

On 1/28/2015 3:26 PM, Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
> john szalay wrote:
>
>> "a425couple" > wrote in
>>
>>
>>> The Yorktown steams full astern to land a TBF Avenger over the bow,
>>> July 1943. Though provision for over-the-bow landing was a design
>>> requirement, it was rarely practiced and the bow arresting gear was
>>> soon eliminated."
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> IIRC: same as with the hanger deck catapult , out the side..
>
> Rather than spam our newsgroup with ww2 stuff perhaps you could start
> a new newsgroup for old technology...perhaps alt.old.technology.military.
>
> just a suggestion
> ;-)

Whether it's legit or not, it's still about Military Aviation. Beats
the hell out of your posts.

--
Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of
the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on
the Internet.

[John Weiss[_5_]]

Daryl wrote:

>>>> Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
>>>> the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
>>>> her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
>>>> land, flying in over her bow.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg

>>> That might be true except this Pic is photshopped. The wake
>>> doesn't fit the rest of the picture.

>> Wake looks consistent to me...

> I blew it up and checked where the wake meets the ship.

The pic pixellates so badly that it is difficult to detect any
photoshopping. I can see nothing that shouts out "fake". The shadows
from the clouds are consistent, and don't suggest the ship or
background was reversed.

[Daryl[_3_]]

On 1/28/2015 5:19 PM, John Weiss wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>
>>>>> Here is what is to me an interesting picture,
>>>>> the USS Yorktown is sailing in reverse, the aft end of
>>>>> her flight deck is full, and a airplane is preparing to
>>>>> land, flying in over her bow.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021019.jpg
>
>>>> That might be true except this Pic is photshopped. The wake
>>>> doesn't fit the rest of the picture.
>
>>> Wake looks consistent to me...
>
>> I blew it up and checked where the wake meets the ship.
>
> The pic pixellates so badly that it is difficult to detect any
> photoshopping. I can see nothing that shouts out "fake". The shadows
> from the clouds are consistent, and don't suggest the ship or
> background was reversed.
>

The only difference is the wake versus the rest of the picture. The
wake has a different pixel compared to the rest of the picture.

They were pretty good but should have blended a bit better. Of course,
it does take an eye to see it. I work in quite a bit of graphics and
know how to sneak it past. The problem is, there are people out there
even better at it than I am and while 99.999% won't see it the .001%
will pick up on it.



--
Visit http://droopyvids.com for free TV and Movies. One of
the Largest Collections of Public Domain and Classic TV on
the Internet.

[Crowell, Jeff]

Daryl wrote:
> They were pretty good but should have blended a bit better. Of course,
> it does take an eye to see it. I work in quite a bit of graphics and
> know how to sneak it past. The problem is, there are people out there
> even better at it than I am and while 99.999% won't see it the .001%
> will pick up on it.

Daryl, you pick the oddest arguments.

Landing over the bow while backing is well documented in the
literature. It was possible and they did it though,
apparently, rarely. Given that, why bother Photoshopping?


Jeff