Selfies, Camera on a Stick

[[email protected]]

In our club a discussion is ongoing whether to allow cameras to be held outside the (club owned) glider (through the sliding window) with the intent to take selfies and to make videos and photos from that viewpoint. This practice is being promoted through numerous videos, some with hundreds of 000's of views. Our concerns are manifold: damage to the canopy from mishandling and wind forces, loss of control of the glider and distraction from observing the airspace. Today I found this article:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/03/ntsb-selfies-disoriented-pilot-causing-crash/22785475/

Not sure if the photo-taking is the main cause for the fatal accident but it brings my point home . Hand-held cameras are dangerous and should be used only by the non-flying pilot, that limits its use to 2-seaters. Has any other club found it necessary to discourage or limit these activities? Of course we can only prohibit this for club gliders.

Herb

[Bill D]

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 12:59:35 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> In our club a discussion is ongoing whether to allow cameras to be held outside the (club owned) glider (through the sliding window) with the intent to take selfies and to make videos and photos from that viewpoint. This practice is being promoted through numerous videos, some with hundreds of 000's of views. Our concerns are manifold: damage to the canopy from mishandling and wind forces, loss of control of the glider and distraction from observing the airspace. Today I found this article:
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/03/ntsb-selfies-disoriented-pilot-causing-crash/22785475/
>
> Not sure if the photo-taking is the main cause for the fatal accident but it brings my point home . Hand-held cameras are dangerous and should be used only by the non-flying pilot, that limits its use to 2-seaters. Has any other club found it necessary to discourage or limit these activities? Of course we can only prohibit this for club gliders.
>
> Herb

I share your concern but I don't think the Colorado crash informs the discussion. This doofus was flying at night while firing a strobe flash into his eyes - possibly campaigning for a Darwin Award. He gets my vote.

[son_of_flubber]

How do you feel about selfies taken from a GoPro attached to tent poles taped to the fuselage?

http://imgur.com/QPKEpXY

Just pointing out the bases that your rule might need to cover.

[Sean Fidler]

I have experienced some situations (even with fixed mount cameras) where I have felt very distracted. Imagine flying with other gliders, in a contest or cross country "pack," and trying to change a battery or SD card. Or reaching around to change camera position. This takes a tremendous amount of discipline. I think it is important to be extremely familiar with the equipment (imagine a movie scene where soldiers race to assemble their weapons blindfolded) so that you don't even have to look at what you are doing. I would reverse this on the ground a few times before trying it in the air.

If you drop parts are have trouble reaching something, it can be extremely distracting to someone who has not prepared themselves for this. Sometimes you need to discipline just to let it go and stop trying to find something when it's too difficult to find.

For this season, I have a new, improved set up that will allow me to easily record entire flights (multiple cameras) without changing batteries (6-8 hours of 4k recording) or memory cards. One of the main reasons I have gone thru these pains is to avoid the distraction.

In a two place glider, I would not be worried, but in a single place I would be careful. On concern about the extendible "selfie" poles is that they can, potentially, get stuck in funny positions between the control stick and another object. If that happened at the exact wrong moment...

[PBA]

I film my flights. I start recording at takeoff and finish after landing. This minimizes my fiddling with the camera. I have the camera on a magnetic mount that makes removing and placing it on the mount basically distraction free.

IMO use of recording equipment by a pilot is no more distracting than using a map or PDA for navigation. I don't care who you are, you aren't looking out for traffic 100% of the time. The key is the pilot needs to recognize when not to mess with the camera (in a gaggle, poor visibility, etc) and when it's OK to take a picture or look at his PDA for information.
Balleka films all his flights, Sebastian Kawa takes photographs while GP racing. It can be done safely.
There is no evidence there should be a "blanket" statement like "camera's should not be used by the pilot". It seems like the NTSB is trying to paint a picture that taking a selfie causes a crash. In the case of Colorado that pilot had minimal night flying experience and the argument that he was distracted by taking photos (because there were photos on his gopro from earlier flights) is just speculation at this point.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 10:27:47 AM UTC-5, PBA wrote:
> I film my flights. I start recording at takeoff and finish after landing. This minimizes my fiddling with the camera. I have the camera on a magnetic mount that makes removing and placing it on the mount basically distraction free.
>
> IMO use of recording equipment by a pilot is no more distracting than using a map or PDA for navigation. I don't care who you are, you aren't looking out for traffic 100% of the time. The key is the pilot needs to recognize when not to mess with the camera (in a gaggle, poor visibility, etc) and when it's OK to take a picture or look at his PDA for information.
> Balleka films all his flights, Sebastian Kawa takes photographs while GP racing. It can be done safely.
> There is no evidence there should be a "blanket" statement like "camera's should not be used by the pilot". It seems like the NTSB is trying to paint a picture that taking a selfie causes a crash. In the case of Colorado that pilot had minimal night flying experience and the argument that he was distracted by taking photos (because there were photos on his gopro from earlier flights) is just speculation at this point.

Exactly. There's also the point that apparently he took a flash(!) picture
while looking at the camera!

I'll second Sean's point though. You do have to discipline yourself to
always put flying the plane first on the list. In the case of your club
I'd say it wouldn't hurt to make sure pilots are properly briefed before
filming, but otherwise should be OK. Pilots can be grownups with a little
encouragement. :-)

Matt

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

On 2/3/2015 12:59 PM, wrote:
> In our club a discussion is ongoing whether to allow cameras to be held
> outside the (club owned) glider (through the sliding window) with the
> intent to take selfies and to make videos and photos from that viewpoint.
<Snip...>
> Has any other club found it necessary to discourage or limit these activities?
> Of course we can only prohibit this for club gliders.
>
> Herb
>
Heh. What could possibly go wrong? If your club happens to be the only one in
the U.S. that hasn't had a canopy cracked by a member reaching in an improper
manner through the sliding window with the glider solidly secured to the
ground, maybe it'll also be one to never suffer from "selfie stupidity." Go
for it!

Less sardonically, the flinty-eyed realist in me concludes that every new
technology (risking grossly over-rating selfie sticks) comes with its own set
of accidents, both user-initiated and system-failure-related. Anti-skid
braking? Now you can roll directly off roads without locking wheels. Car GPS?
"We're supposed to do WHAT?!?" Air bags?

I expect everyone knows what I mean. Kinda-sorta related, "Aviate; navigate;
communicate." still seems a great aphorism to me.

YMMV,
Bob W.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 7:40:30 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> How do you feel about selfies taken from a GoPro attached to tent poles taped to the fuselage?
>
> http://imgur.com/QPKEpXY
>
> Just pointing out the bases that your rule might need to cover.

wow that is an AWESOME shot!

[son_of_flubber]

On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 3:09:32 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:

> wow that is an AWESOME shot!

It's a frame grab from this video http://vimeo.com/57580544 at about 3:30. The clip is full of naughty antics.