New Cobra trailer - - which top?

[Ben[_6_]]

So, if you were ordering a new Cobra trailer, would you order a fiberglass top or an aluminum top? For sake of discussion, lets exclude obvious price difference.

I've never seen an aluminum top with insulation. What type of insulation is used and is it worth the 1000 plus euros?

For those having a reasonably new Cobra trailer, in your opinion, what options are "mandatory" and what options are "losers"?

Thanks for your feedback.

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 9:14:19 AM UTC-8, Ben wrote:
> So, if you were ordering a new Cobra trailer, would you order a fiberglass top or an aluminum top? For sake of discussion, lets exclude obvious price difference.
>
> I've never seen an aluminum top with insulation. What type of insulation is used and is it worth the 1000 plus euros?
>
> For those having a reasonably new Cobra trailer, in your opinion, what options are "mandatory" and what options are "losers"?
>
> Thanks for your feedback.

The aluminum top will look better far longer. Unless you bend it - then the fiberglass top is far easier to repair.

I would question whether insulating the top will actually do any good for anything, unless you are planning on heating the interior.

[Tony[_5_]]

The only one I've seen with insulation was a very large custom built Cobra that was designed to fit a Slingsby Capstan. It now holds a Morelli M-200. The insulation is at most 1/2" thick and was glued to the inside of the trailer top. I don't think I've seen insulation in any of the other Cobra's that I've pulled.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 10:10:00 AM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
> The only one I've seen with insulation was a very large custom built Cobra that was designed to fit a Slingsby Capstan. It now holds a Morelli M-200.. The insulation is at most 1/2" thick and was glued to the inside of the trailer top. I don't think I've seen insulation in any of the other Cobra's that I've pulled.

Forget Cobra's factory interior lights. I found them to be very "weak" at best.

[Craig Reinholt]

> The aluminum top will look better far longer. Unless you bend it - then the fiberglass top is far easier to repair.
>
> I would question whether insulating the top will actually do any good for anything, unless you are planning on heating the interior.

I've had the insulated AL top trailer for 12 years and agree with the above comments. I believe the insulation reduces sweating inside the trailer. I heat the trailer during the winter months with a chicken incubator (available at any farm hardware store). Incandescent light bulbs have been known to cause fires and this is a much safer alternative.
Al tops are a bit lighter. Reducing hail damage will probably favor fiberglass. Reducing annual maintenance will strongly favor AL tops. Aesthetics, IMO, favor the fiberglass top. Both are top quality products from Spindelberger.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 4:08:23 PM UTC-5, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> > The aluminum top will look better far longer. Unless you bend it - then the fiberglass top is far easier to repair.
> >
> > I would question whether insulating the top will actually do any good for anything, unless you are planning on heating the interior.
>
> I've had the insulated AL top trailer for 12 years and agree with the above comments. I believe the insulation reduces sweating inside the trailer. I heat the trailer during the winter months with a chicken incubator (available at any farm hardware store). Incandescent light bulbs have been known to cause fires and this is a much safer alternative.
> Al tops are a bit lighter. Reducing hail damage will probably favor fiberglass. Reducing annual maintenance will strongly favor AL tops. Aesthetics, IMO, favor the fiberglass top. Both are top quality products from Spindelberger.

I owned both AL and fiberglass. My next one is going to be fiberglass. Although my AL trailer looks close to new condition I fear if I ever get any damage it is for ever. I saw a fixed AL trailer with a bunch of rivets in wrong places. Fiberglass can always be painted after a couple of years (out gassing completed) and it will look great for a long time reducing the maintenance.

[Ben[_6_]]

Aluminum Cobras certainly have the nasty habit of "raining" on the inside due to condensation. The more humid the climate, the worse it gets.

Is the insulation just "raw" EPS board (expanded polystyrene like Dow blue styrofoam) glued to the inside? And only the roof - - not the sidewalls?

If it is just "raw" EPS board, I would think it would dent, ding, and pick easily and look awful after usual wear and tear.

[[email protected]]

I've only owned glass tops (3). IMHO the work to keep it looking nice makes Alum look appealing. Glass is like waxing four cars...unless it needs rubbing out, then it's like ten cars......"Wax on, right hand. Wax off, left hand. Wax on, wax off. Breathe in through nose, out the mouth. Wax on, wax off. Don't forget to breathe, very important".

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 4:36:10 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I've only owned glass tops (3). IMHO the work to keep it looking nice makes Alum look appealing. Glass is like waxing four cars...unless it needs rubbing out, then it's like ten cars......"Wax on, right hand. Wax off, left hand. Wax on, wax off. Breathe in through nose, out the mouth. Wax on, wax off. Don't forget to breathe, very important".

As Andrzej says, one thing that could be done is to wait a bit for the glass and gelcoat to settle down, then scuff and shoot the whole thing with PU. I think that would cut the maintenance by quite a lot for 10 years or so anyway. Add that to the cost of the trailer. Good PU finishes don't require waxing (and it will not extend their life in any case), just wash it once in awhile. Which costs more to begin with, FRP or ALU?

[Darryl Ramm]

Hey Whitney

I hope the lights I installed in my (then your) Cobra trailer worked better.. Just RV fluorescent tubes, and a 30Ah or so VRLA battery in the trailer. Nowadays I would use LEDs. I was very proud of that exterior mast-head (for a yatch) halogen lamp on the rear of the trailer top... It would pretty provide enough light to derig at night. I think I used it exactly twice :-)

Darryl

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 9:06:07 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> Hey Whitney
>
> I hope the lights I installed in my (then your) Cobra trailer worked better. Just RV fluorescent tubes, and a 30Ah or so VRLA battery in the trailer.. Nowadays I would use LEDs. I was very proud of that exterior mast-head (for a yatch) halogen lamp on the rear of the trailer top... It would pretty provide enough light to derig at night. I think I used it exactly twice :-)
>
> Darryl

Hi Darryl,

Your light set up was the best! Both inside and out. The best I've seen.
Cobra's lights........not so much. I did order and try different, brighter LEDs for their system and finally realized buying a few headlamps and leaving them in the trailer cost way less time and agro.

Whitney

The outside light was awesome. I think I used it once :-) But is was better than anyone else's outside porch light!! A thing of beauty.

[BG[_4_]]

One fairly consistant problem I have seen in a number of aluminum trailers, is a distortion near the front hinge on the top. It allows the top to shift forward and creates interference at the rear with hard closing and misalignment of the latches. The distortion appears right at the corner. I believe it occurs with the forward loading on the top coming from the rather strong gas struts over time.

Of the five aluminum Cobra trailers parked at the field, three have this problem. None of the fiber glass top trailers show a similar problem.

Buzz Graves

[Dave Nadler]

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 2:29:33 AM UTC-5, BG wrote:
> One fairly consistant problem I have seen in a number of aluminum trailers, is a distortion near the front hinge on the top. It allows the top to shift forward and creates interference at the rear with hard closing and misalignment of the latches. The distortion appears right at the corner. I believe it occurs with the forward loading on the top coming from the rather strong gas struts over time.
>
> Of the five aluminum Cobra trailers parked at the field, three have this problem. None of the fiber glass top trailers show a similar problem.
>
> Buzz Graves

Plenty of fiberglass tops have the same problem;
actually any trailer produced prior ~ 2010 IIRC.
Later trailers have a small block carrying loads
from top's lower side-rail and pressing against
front hinge plate.

I designed a fix with Alfred and can post info if
anyone is interested...

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

[Ron Gleason]

On Thursday, 12 February 2015 07:17:26 UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 2:29:33 AM UTC-5, BG wrote:
> > One fairly consistant problem I have seen in a number of aluminum trailers, is a distortion near the front hinge on the top. It allows the top to shift forward and creates interference at the rear with hard closing and misalignment of the latches. The distortion appears right at the corner. I believe it occurs with the forward loading on the top coming from the rather strong gas struts over time.
> >
> > Of the five aluminum Cobra trailers parked at the field, three have this problem. None of the fiber glass top trailers show a similar problem.
> >
> > Buzz Graves
>
> Plenty of fiberglass tops have the same problem;
> actually any trailer produced prior ~ 2010 IIRC.
> Later trailers have a small block carrying loads
> from top's lower side-rail and pressing against
> front hinge plate.
>
> I designed a fix with Alfred and can post info if
> anyone is interested...
>
> Hope that helps,
> Best Regards, Dave

Dave, please post the fix designed. I remember the discussion from a few years ago but know that I have a Cobra trailer again I am interested

Ron Gleason

[BG[_4_]]

Please post, I am looking for a fix

Buzz

[joesimmers[_2_]]

Yes Dave please post all info you have on this!

I am also in need of this fix.

[HGXC[_3_]]

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-5, Ron Gleason wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 February 2015 07:17:26 UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 2:29:33 AM UTC-5, BG wrote:
> > > One fairly consistant problem I have seen in a number of aluminum trailers, is a distortion near the front hinge on the top. It allows the top to shift forward and creates interference at the rear with hard closing and misalignment of the latches. The distortion appears right at the corner. I believe it occurs with the forward loading on the top coming from the rather strong gas struts over time.
> > >
> > > Of the five aluminum Cobra trailers parked at the field, three have this problem. None of the fiber glass top trailers show a similar problem.
> > >
> > > Buzz Graves
> >
> > Plenty of fiberglass tops have the same problem;
> > actually any trailer produced prior ~ 2010 IIRC.
> > Later trailers have a small block carrying loads
> > from top's lower side-rail and pressing against
> > front hinge plate.
> >
> > I designed a fix with Alfred and can post info if
> > anyone is interested...
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> > Best Regards, Dave
>
> Dave, please post the fix designed. I remember the discussion from a few years ago but know that I have a Cobra trailer again I am interested
>
> Ron Gleason

I just had my 30 year old cobra trailer's flip door fixed. I replaced the gas struts and sure enough it cause the top to shift even more then it already had. I had them weld braces in the front corners and repainted it. All the riding over bumpy roads over the years works the aluminum because it has insufficient bracing.

Dennis

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 12:17:26 PM UTC, joesimmers wrote:
> Yes Dave please post all info you have on this!
>
> I am also in need of this fix.

I don't know whether Dave's fix is the same as Steve Koerner's fix that was linked here a few years ago but, just in case, here is the link to the latter:

https://app.box.com/shared/9dvnt7qgs8

John Galloway

[Dave Nadler]

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 12:03:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> I don't know whether Dave's fix is the same as Steve Koerner's fix that was linked here a few years ago but, just in case, here is the link to the latter:
>
> https://app.box.com/shared/9dvnt7qgs8
>
> John Galloway

That's a different problem (hinge and top attachment).
I will try dig out the info on the top corner problem and post later...

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

[[email protected]]

Fiberglass tops do not totally block UV damage to gel coat on the glider! I kept a glider, stored in a fiberglass top cobra trailer outdoors for several years in France. The wing facing south had much more crazing and yellowing than the north facing wing. Mold or mildew was also becoming a problem.. If you plan on keeping the rig outdoors, I would suggest aluminum.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 9:14:19 AM UTC-8, Ben wrote:
> So, if you were ordering a new Cobra trailer, would you order a fiberglass top or an aluminum top? For sake of discussion, lets exclude obvious price difference.
>
> I've never seen an aluminum top with insulation. What type of insulation is used and is it worth the 1000 plus euros?
>
> For those having a reasonably new Cobra trailer, in your opinion, what options are "mandatory" and what options are "losers"?
>
> Thanks for your feedback.

I'm curious, what does one pay for a 15 meter Cobra Trailer delivered to a West Coast port?

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 9:14:19 AM UTC-8, Ben wrote:
> > So, if you were ordering a new Cobra trailer, would you order a fiberglass top or an aluminum top? For sake of discussion, lets exclude obvious price difference.
> >
> > I've never seen an aluminum top with insulation. What type of insulation is used and is it worth the 1000 plus euros?
> >
> > For those having a reasonably new Cobra trailer, in your opinion, what options are "mandatory" and what options are "losers"?
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback.
>
> I'm curious, what does one pay for a 15 meter Cobra Trailer delivered to a West Coast port?

Brand new?...20 ish..depending on extras etc. But that number is based on what the Euro was compared to the US Dollar 18 months ago. The Euro is about 20% cheaper now.

[[email protected]]

The UV issue is solved by a black factory coating (gloss paint?) on the inside of the glass top. It was available in 1998+, maybe only as an option, but both my 1998 & 1999 have it.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 8:55:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> The UV issue is solved by a black factory coating (gloss paint?) on the inside of the glass top. It was available in 1998+, maybe only as an option, but both my 1998 & 1999 have it.

It has been a standard for a long time.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Last two trailers I got the fiberglass and had a local craftsman insulate the interior. I thought the fiberglass looked better and was lees likely to form condensation. I was not sorry for my choice. I have also had AL tops, but as a personal preference I prefer fiberglass.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 9:18:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Last two trailers I got the fiberglass and had a local craftsman insulate the interior.

What did you use for the insulation?

Kevin

[Bruce Hoult]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:47:28 PM UTC+13, wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 9:18:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > Last two trailers I got the fiberglass and had a local craftsman insulate the interior.
>
> What did you use for the insulation?

Styrofoam sheets are probably the only reasonable answer. If you want to make it more durable you can brush or roll or spray on a layer of epoxy resin or urethane. NOT polyester resin. And some thin glass mat if you want to be super fancy.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 12:33:49 AM UTC+13, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:47:28 PM UTC+13, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 9:18:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > Last two trailers I got the fiberglass and had a local craftsman insulate the interior.
> >
> > What did you use for the insulation?
>
> Styrofoam sheets are probably the only reasonable answer. If you want to make it more durable you can brush or roll or spray on a layer of epoxy resin or urethane. NOT polyester resin. And some thin glass mat if you want to be super fancy.

Movie and stage show people make a lot of scenery and props out of foam, and then need a hard coating on them to protect them.

This seems to be one of the ones they use:

http://www.fxsupply.com/materials/foamcoat.html

Coverage seems to be about 150 sq ft per gal, so you might need about three gallons or $160 worth to do sides and top of a trailer. Here in Wellington, the same area of recycled polystyrene sheets will cost about twice that.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I used a closed cell soft foam. Not sure where my mechanic got it but it was ⅜ inch thick.

[Dan Marotta]

Well that might protect the glider inside the trailer but it does
nothing for the fiberglass trailer top.


On 2/18/2015 6:55 PM, wrote:
> The UV issue is solved by a black factory coating (gloss paint?) on the inside of the glass top. It was available in 1998+, maybe only as an option, but both my 1998 & 1999 have it.

--
Dan Marotta

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Well that might protect the glider inside the trailer but it does
> nothing for the fiberglass trailer top.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/18/2015 6:55 PM,
> wrote:
>
>
>
> The UV issue is solved by a black factory coating (gloss paint?) on the inside of the glass top. It was available in 1998+, maybe only as an option, but both my 1998 & 1999 have it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan Marotta

When deciding what top to buy I asked myself this simple question: if you'd get an airplane that is going to be tied down outside year-round, would you want fiberglass or aluminum skin? Haven't regretted my decision to go aluminum, looks great after 14 years. My buddies' fiberglass tops are all crazed and dull.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 2:47:28 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 9:18:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > Last two trailers I got the fiberglass and had a local craftsman insulate the interior.
>
> What did you use for the insulation?
>
> Kevin

My mechanic used engine firewall foam. Black flexible foam with a metalic coating on one side. We glued the black foam side to the inside of the fiberglass top. As for how it looked after years in the sun, I always kept the top waxed, three to four times a year.

[Benedict Smith]

At 16:31 19 February 2015, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 2:47:28 AM UTC-8,
>wrote=
>:
>> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 9:18:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St.
Cloud
>w=
>rote:
>> > Last two trailers I got the fiberglass and had a local craftsman
>insula=
>te the interior.=20
>>=20
>> What did you use for the insulation?
>>=20
>> Kevin
>
>My mechanic used engine firewall foam. Black flexible foam with a
metalic
>=
>coating on one side. We glued the black foam side to the inside of the
>fib=
>erglass top. As for how it looked after years in the sun, I always kept
>th=
>e top waxed, three to four times a year.
>
In the UK (and probably the other side of the pond) you can buy rolls of
thin
closed cell foam with a metalised plastic coating on one side, it is sold
to go
behind radiators in the home to stop the heat going out of the wall (a lot
of
us have solid stone or brick walls over here) it is quite tough and easy to

stick to most surfaces, at only around an eighth of an inch thick it won't

provide a lot of insulation, but should be enough to stop condensation in
an
aluminium or GRP top.
Just don't buy the cheaper version that is polystyrene foam with a foil
layer
as that damages too easily and soon looks tatty.
Ben.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:22:25 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Well that might protect the glider inside the trailer but it does
> > nothing for the fiberglass trailer top.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/18/2015 6:55 PM,
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > The UV issue is solved by a black factory coating (gloss paint?) on the inside of the glass top. It was available in 1998+, maybe only as an option, but both my 1998 & 1999 have it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dan Marotta
>
> When deciding what top to buy I asked myself this simple question: if you'd get an airplane that is going to be tied down outside year-round, would you want fiberglass or aluminum skin? Haven't regretted my decision to go aluminum, looks great after 14 years. My buddies' fiberglass tops are all crazed and dull.

They can be repainted and they will look nice again. If you have an accident with metal top the trailer is ruined for life. The fiber glass you just fix and it looks great again. I saw one metal trailer fixed after an accident. I don't think I would like mine to look like that.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 4:16:03 PM UTC-5, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 11:22:25 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 10:10:48 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > Well that might protect the glider inside the trailer but it does
> > > nothing for the fiberglass trailer top.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/18/2015 6:55 PM,
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The UV issue is solved by a black factory coating (gloss paint?) on the inside of the glass top. It was available in 1998+, maybe only as an option, but both my 1998 & 1999 have it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Dan Marotta
> >
> > When deciding what top to buy I asked myself this simple question: if you'd get an airplane that is going to be tied down outside year-round, would you want fiberglass or aluminum skin? Haven't regretted my decision to go aluminum, looks great after 14 years. My buddies' fiberglass tops are all crazed and dull.
>
> They can be repainted and they will look nice again. If you have an accident with metal top the trailer is ruined for life. The fiber glass you just fix and it looks great again. I saw one metal trailer fixed after an accident. I don't think I would like mine to look like that.

I agree. I have over 30 years experience repairing metal and close to that in composites. It is relatively easy to repair the glass trailer to like new appearance and almost impossible to do the same on the metal ones.
Refinishing is not significantly different between the 2 unless you have to strip the peeling metal trailer.
A relatively inexpensive life extender is to store in a portable garage to keep the sun and rain off. $2500 will store 2 trailers and stretch the life before refinish greatly. Additionally, the internal weather system in the trailer that the glider feels is substantially reduced.
Best combo in my experience is 2 wall glass trailer kept under cover.
FWIW
UH