Joy stick or wheel?

[Wally Samuelson]

When I bought FS2004 I got a deal (?) which included a wingman joystick for
about $12.
This also had a rebate of $12 which made it essentially free. I am
beginning to think that it is worth what I paid for it.

It doesn't react well, the throttle setting will not advance far enough on
the 172 to give full take off power, etc. I have tried to find the
calibration page to no avail. The help file doesn't even recognize the word
calibrate.

It looks to me like an obsolete model. It has an adapter from a game port
connector to USB.

OK what should I get a stick or a wheel? I learned to fly with a stick,
but most of my time is with a wheel. I really just want to play with the J
3, the 172, 182 etc. I might fool around a little with the heavier stuff,
but no big deal.

What should I buy, and which brands etc seem to work best? I am willing to
spend $100 or so.

Wally
1st solo, 1936 in a Curtiss Robin

[Skyhawk]

Wally,

I would recommend the CH Products Yoke w/ throttle,mixture, and prop
controls. If you want to spend the big bucks, get the Pro Pedals as well.
They are around $250 purchased at the same time or $130 each. I would check
out the www.pcaviator.com web site. I have purchased from them with
success, and they have competitive prices. It is hard to find the good
controls at retail. As an alternative, the Microsoft Force Feedback 2
joystick works well and it is around $100.
"Wally Samuelson" > wrote in message
news:wFxXa.44929$cF.16840@rwcrnsc53...
> When I bought FS2004 I got a deal (?) which included a wingman joystick
for
> about $12.
> This also had a rebate of $12 which made it essentially free. I am
> beginning to think that it is worth what I paid for it.
>
> It doesn't react well, the throttle setting will not advance far enough on
> the 172 to give full take off power, etc. I have tried to find the
> calibration page to no avail. The help file doesn't even recognize the
word
> calibrate.
>
> It looks to me like an obsolete model. It has an adapter from a game port
> connector to USB.
>
> OK what should I get a stick or a wheel? I learned to fly with a stick,
> but most of my time is with a wheel. I really just want to play with the
J
> 3, the 172, 182 etc. I might fool around a little with the heavier stuff,
> but no big deal.
>
> What should I buy, and which brands etc seem to work best? I am willing
to
> spend $100 or so.
>
> Wally
> 1st solo, 1936 in a Curtiss Robin
>
>

[CriticalMass]

"Skyhawk" > wrote in message
...

> I would recommend the CH Products Yoke w/ throttle,mixture, and prop
> controls. If you want to spend the big bucks, get the Pro Pedals as well.
> They are around $250 purchased at the same time or $130 each. I would
check
> out the www.pcaviator.com web site. I have purchased from them with
> success, and they have competitive prices. It is hard to find the good
> controls at retail. As an alternative, the Microsoft Force Feedback 2
> joystick works well and it is around $100.


While I won't argue with any of the above, I will add my comments.

I am now using CH USB rudder pedals, with no issues to report.

I *used* to own the CH Yoke with engine controls and all the buttons.
Believe it or not, the damned thing stripped the hardware-store clamp bolts
that secure it to the desktop. I could no longer attach it to my desk and
use it to fly. It boggled my mind that such a low-tech item would tank, but
it did. It went into the trash.

I will not buy from CH Products again. If they can't get an item like that
right (and, mind you, I've been using their stuff for a L O N G time), they
have lost my confidence.

So, I'm now flying the sim with the CH USB Pro pedals and a Microsoft FFB2
force feedback joystick.

I agree that flying most of the sim airplanes is best enjoyed with a yoke,
as opposed to a stick. I'm waiting for something more durable than the CH
yoke to surface on the market. I have the bucks, and I'll spend them, if
that's what's required to get *quality* flight sim controls.

[Marc]

"CriticalMass" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Skyhawk" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I would recommend the CH Products Yoke w/ throttle,mixture, and prop
> > controls. If you want to spend the big bucks, get the Pro Pedals as
well.
> > They are around $250 purchased at the same time or $130 each. I would
> check
> > out the www.pcaviator.com web site. I have purchased from them with
> > success, and they have competitive prices. It is hard to find the good
> > controls at retail. As an alternative, the Microsoft Force Feedback 2
> > joystick works well and it is around $100.
>
>
> While I won't argue with any of the above, I will add my comments.
>
> I am now using CH USB rudder pedals, with no issues to report.
>
> I *used* to own the CH Yoke with engine controls and all the buttons.
> Believe it or not, the damned thing stripped the hardware-store clamp
bolts
> that secure it to the desktop. I could no longer attach it to my desk and
> use it to fly. It boggled my mind that such a low-tech item would tank,
but
> it did. It went into the trash.
>
> I will not buy from CH Products again. If they can't get an item like
that
> right (and, mind you, I've been using their stuff for a L O N G time),
they
> have lost my confidence.
>
> So, I'm now flying the sim with the CH USB Pro pedals and a Microsoft FFB2
> force feedback joystick.
>
> I agree that flying most of the sim airplanes is best enjoyed with a yoke,
> as opposed to a stick. I'm waiting for something more durable than the CH
> yoke to surface on the market. I have the bucks, and I'll spend them, if
> that's what's required to get *quality* flight sim controls.

I had two of those, and no problems with the bolts. The bolt itself is a
stainless steel standard piece of hardware -- type SBY, which can be
obtained at a hardware store. It is epoxied into the knob. The socket into
which the bolt fits is brass and pretty durable. I don't see anything poorly
made about these parts, but they are easy to replace if they should go. In
any case, I would not judge a flight yoke by the bolts that hold it to the
desk, that is a pretty minor part.

I have held off getting the rudder pedals. Are they useful? Seems like a lot
of money for something that doesn't get used too often. In a crosswind I
just land a little kilter -- unlike the real thing, there are no repair
bills for damaging the virtual main struts, at least not so far.

Question, do any of the virtual airplanes accurately simulate a forward slip
using the rudder pedal - including rapid loss of altitude, etc.?

thanks

[Alex Feldstein [MVP]]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:33:00 GMT, "Wally Samuelson"
> wrote:

>What should I buy, and which brands etc seem to work best? I am willing to
>spend $100 or so.
>
>Wally
>1st solo, 1936 in a Curtiss Robin


Wally

I have the MS Sidewinder 2. It has a throttle and a few buttons
already programmed (and easy to change if needed). It works very well.
It also has rudder control by rotating the handle.

As I got tired of this part, I got CH pedals in eBay, brand new at a
decent price some time ago.

The combination works well.

HTH



Alex Feldstein
_______________________________________________
There's two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.


Please respond in the public groups so that everybody
can benefit from the exchange.
No email please. (Address scrambled with ROT-13)

[Dashi Toshii]

"CriticalMass" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Skyhawk" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I would recommend the CH Products Yoke w/ throttle,mixture, and prop
> > controls. If you want to spend the big bucks, get the Pro Pedals as
well.
> > They are around $250 purchased at the same time or $130 each. I would
> check
> > out the www.pcaviator.com web site. I have purchased from them with
> > success, and they have competitive prices. It is hard to find the good
> > controls at retail. As an alternative, the Microsoft Force Feedback 2
> > joystick works well and it is around $100.
>
>
> While I won't argue with any of the above, I will add my comments.
>
> I am now using CH USB rudder pedals, with no issues to report.
>
> I *used* to own the CH Yoke with engine controls and all the buttons.
> Believe it or not, the damned thing stripped the hardware-store clamp
bolts
> that secure it to the desktop. I could no longer attach it to my desk and
> use it to fly. It boggled my mind that such a low-tech item would tank,
but
> it did. It went into the trash.
>
> I will not buy from CH Products again. If they can't get an item like
that
> right (and, mind you, I've been using their stuff for a L O N G time),
they
> have lost my confidence.
>
> So, I'm now flying the sim with the CH USB Pro pedals and a Microsoft FFB2
> force feedback joystick.
>
> I agree that flying most of the sim airplanes is best enjoyed with a yoke,
> as opposed to a stick. I'm waiting for something more durable than the CH
> yoke to surface on the market. I have the bucks, and I'll spend them, if
> that's what's required to get *quality* flight sim controls.

You want quality? Go to: http://www.flypfc.com

Dashii
>
>

[CriticalMass]

"Marc" > wrote in message
news:kPNfb.679792$YN5.538941@sccrnsc01...
>
> I had two of those, and no problems with the bolts. The bolt itself is a
> stainless steel standard piece of hardware -- type SBY, which can be
> obtained at a hardware store. It is epoxied into the knob. The socket into
> which the bolt fits is brass and pretty durable. I don't see anything
poorly
> made about these parts, but they are easy to replace if they should go. In
> any case, I would not judge a flight yoke by the bolts that hold it to the
> desk, that is a pretty minor part.

It may be minor to you, but it's a major hassle when it becomes impossible
to attach the damned thing to the desk, and hardware isn't exactly rocket
science - I'll go elsewhere when a supplier can't get THAT part right.

> I have held off getting the rudder pedals. Are they useful? Seems like a
lot
> of money for something that doesn't get used too often. In a crosswind I
> just land a little kilter -- unlike the real thing, there are no repair
> bills for damaging the virtual main struts, at least not so far.

OK, now you've identified yourself. You're not a pilot, you're a gamer.

Sure, you can avoid all the hassle of control devices and just try to fly
with your keyboard. How realistic do you want it to be?

Real airplanes have rudder pedals. If you want realism, get rudder pedals.
If you don't care, check the box for autocontrol. Your choice.

> Question, do any of the virtual airplanes accurately simulate a forward
slip
> using the rudder pedal - including rapid loss of altitude, etc.?

Yes, to varying degrees, just like the real thing

[CriticalMass]

"Dashi Toshii" > wrote in message
...
>
> You want quality? Go to: http://www.flypfc.com

Yeah, yeah, I know. I've been watching those folks. Probably good stuff, I
agree, but at those prices, and still without throttle/prop/mixture in the
console?

I don't think so.

Add up what it costs to get the added modules to make up a usable setup, and
it's time to start thinking about a real airplane. Maybe, not quite, but
the point is valid.

Note that I *own* a real airplane, and my flying experience is not limited
to my computer. So, I have a frame of reference, for performance, AND cost.

[Marc]

"CriticalMass" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Marc" > wrote in message
> news:kPNfb.679792$YN5.538941@sccrnsc01...
> >
> > I had two of those, and no problems with the bolts. The bolt itself is a
> > stainless steel standard piece of hardware -- type SBY, which can be
> > obtained at a hardware store. It is epoxied into the knob. The socket
into
> > which the bolt fits is brass and pretty durable. I don't see anything
> poorly
> > made about these parts, but they are easy to replace if they should go.
In
> > any case, I would not judge a flight yoke by the bolts that hold it to
the
> > desk, that is a pretty minor part.
>
> It may be minor to you, but it's a major hassle when it becomes impossible
> to attach the damned thing to the desk, and hardware isn't exactly rocket
> science - I'll go elsewhere when a supplier can't get THAT part right.

replacing the hardware is minor. If you want to, send me your unit and I'll
do it for you.

> > I have held off getting the rudder pedals. Are they useful? Seems like a
> lot
> > of money for something that doesn't get used too often. In a crosswind I
> > just land a little kilter -- unlike the real thing, there are no repair
> > bills for damaging the virtual main struts, at least not so far.
>
> OK, now you've identified yourself. You're not a pilot, you're a gamer.

actually I'm a pilot.

> Sure, you can avoid all the hassle of control devices and just try to fly
> with your keyboard. How realistic do you want it to be?
>
> Real airplanes have rudder pedals. If you want realism, get rudder
pedals.
> If you don't care, check the box for autocontrol. Your choice.

well, sims are not realistic enought to start with, so I dont see the point
in adding the expense of rudder pedals just to straighten up on the
approach. Forward slips might be interesting, but otherwise I just pretend
I'm an Ercoupe when landing.

[CriticalMass]

"Marc" > wrote in message
. net...
> > OK, now you've identified yourself. You're not a pilot, you're a gamer.
>
> actually I'm a pilot.


So am I. USA/FAA Private/Instrument