Flarm IGC files on non-IGC certified Flarm?

[Movses]

I'm somewhat confused with the functionality of the flarm core in regards to producing flight traces.

I was never able to obtain a trace from my Flarm Core Pure.
I put the usb drive in, turn it on, wait for the light to settle to green, turn it off, pull the drive - nothing.
Updating settings from the drive does work, so I'm reasonably confident that the drive is being recognized.

Now, the unit does not have the IGC certification enabled. Originally I thought it simply meant that the traces produces would not be properly signed to be recognized as valid, but now I start questioning whether a non-IGC enabled Flarm produces logs at all?

I don't need to use the Flarm as a logger, but I did want to feed a file to the range analyzer to evaluate antenna placement.

Does anybody have an experience with this?

Thanks,
Movses

[Sean Fidler]

I believe that you have to install a configuration file first. This is covered in the flarm core manual and in several YouTube videos. PM me and I will take this offline.

[Bob Gibbons[_2_]]

My understanding is that the logger is an extra cost option on later
PowerFlarm Core Pure hardware. Without this option enabled, the unit
will NOT produce flight logs.

Bob

On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:55:05 -0700 (PDT), Movses >
wrote:

>I'm somewhat confused with the functionality of the flarm core in regards to
>producing flight traces.
>
>I was never able to obtain a trace from my Flarm Core Pure.
>I put the usb drive in, turn it on, wait for the light to settle to green, turn it
>off, pull the drive - nothing.
>Updating settings from the drive does work, so I'm reasonably confident that
> the drive is being recognized.
>
>Now, the unit does not have the IGC certification enabled. Originally I thought it
>simply meant that the traces produces would not be properly signed to be
>recognized as valid, but now I start questioning whether a non-IGC enabled Flarm
> produces logs at all?
>
>I don't need to use the Flarm as a logger, but I did want to feed a file to the
>range analyzer to evaluate antenna placement.
>
>Does anybody have an experience with this?
>
>Thanks,
>Movses

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:55:07 PM UTC-4, Movses wrote:
> I'm somewhat confused with the functionality of the flarm core in regards to producing flight traces.
>
> I was never able to obtain a trace from my Flarm Core Pure.
> I put the usb drive in, turn it on, wait for the light to settle to green, turn it off, pull the drive - nothing.
> Updating settings from the drive does work, so I'm reasonably confident that the drive is being recognized.
>
> Now, the unit does not have the IGC certification enabled. Originally I thought it simply meant that the traces produces would not be properly signed to be recognized as valid, but now I start questioning whether a non-IGC enabled Flarm produces logs at all?
>
> I don't need to use the Flarm as a logger, but I did want to feed a file to the range analyzer to evaluate antenna placement.
>
> Does anybody have an experience with this?
>
> Thanks,
> Movses

If you don't fly, it knows and doesn't produce a file. Manual page 20 says in part "Flight recording automatically starts when the aircraft starts moving and ends when the CORE is switched OFF or after more than 10 minutes of standstill." Have you flown with it?

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 3:27:37 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:55:07 PM UTC-4, Movses wrote:
> > I'm somewhat confused with the functionality of the flarm core in regards to producing flight traces.
> >
> > I was never able to obtain a trace from my Flarm Core Pure.
> > I put the usb drive in, turn it on, wait for the light to settle to green, turn it off, pull the drive - nothing.
> > Updating settings from the drive does work, so I'm reasonably confident that the drive is being recognized.
> >
> > Now, the unit does not have the IGC certification enabled. Originally I thought it simply meant that the traces produces would not be properly signed to be recognized as valid, but now I start questioning whether a non-IGC enabled Flarm produces logs at all?
> >
> > I don't need to use the Flarm as a logger, but I did want to feed a file to the range analyzer to evaluate antenna placement.
> >
> > Does anybody have an experience with this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Movses
>
> If you don't fly, it knows and doesn't produce a file. Manual page 20 says in part "Flight recording automatically starts when the aircraft starts moving and ends when the CORE is switched OFF or after more than 10 minutes of standstill." Have you flown with it?

Further, from the PowerFLARM North America FORUM page, they say that from firmware 2.60beta and on: "...Additions
- IGC format logging suitable for OLC and FLARM range analyzer [2]." Then, firmware 2.71 added IGC logging. So, once you fly, you should be good to go.

2D

[Movses]

I flew with it entire last season.

Traffic detection works well, NMEA stream to my flight computer works well; no traces though.


On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-7, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 3:27:37 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> > On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:55:07 PM UTC-4, Movses wrote:
> > > I'm somewhat confused with the functionality of the flarm core in regards to producing flight traces.
> > >
> > > I was never able to obtain a trace from my Flarm Core Pure.
> > > I put the usb drive in, turn it on, wait for the light to settle to green, turn it off, pull the drive - nothing.
> > > Updating settings from the drive does work, so I'm reasonably confident that the drive is being recognized.
> > >
> > > Now, the unit does not have the IGC certification enabled. Originally I thought it simply meant that the traces produces would not be properly signed to be recognized as valid, but now I start questioning whether a non-IGC enabled Flarm produces logs at all?
> > >
> > > I don't need to use the Flarm as a logger, but I did want to feed a file to the range analyzer to evaluate antenna placement.
> > >
> > > Does anybody have an experience with this?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Movses
> >
> > If you don't fly, it knows and doesn't produce a file. Manual page 20 says in part "Flight recording automatically starts when the aircraft starts moving and ends when the CORE is switched OFF or after more than 10 minutes of standstill." Have you flown with it?
>
> Further, from the PowerFLARM North America FORUM page, they say that from firmware 2.60beta and on: "...Additions
> - IGC format logging suitable for OLC and FLARM range analyzer [2]." Then, firmware 2.71 added IGC logging. So, once you fly, you should be good to go.
>
> 2D

[Movses]

If that's the case, how are we supposed to verify performance with the range tool?

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:19:56 PM UTC-7, Bob Gibbons wrote:
> My understanding is that the logger is an extra cost option on later
> PowerFlarm Core Pure hardware. Without this option enabled, the unit
> will NOT produce flight logs.
>
> Bob
>

>
> >I'm somewhat confused with the functionality of the flarm core in regards to
> >producing flight traces.
> >
> >I was never able to obtain a trace from my Flarm Core Pure.
> >I put the usb drive in, turn it on, wait for the light to settle to green, turn it
> >off, pull the drive - nothing.
> >Updating settings from the drive does work, so I'm reasonably confident that
> > the drive is being recognized.
> >
> >Now, the unit does not have the IGC certification enabled. Originally I thought it
> >simply meant that the traces produces would not be properly signed to be
> >recognized as valid, but now I start questioning whether a non-IGC enabled Flarm
> > produces logs at all?
> >
> >I don't need to use the Flarm as a logger, but I did want to feed a file to the
> >range analyzer to evaluate antenna placement.
> >
> >Does anybody have an experience with this?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Movses

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

Have you loaded a flarmcfg.txt file?

Have you inserted a USB drive and turned power off/on with it inserted?

Which firmware are you using in the CORE?

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 5:01:42 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> Have you loaded a flarmcfg.txt file?
>
> Have you inserted a USB drive and turned power off/on with it inserted?
>
> Which firmware are you using in the CORE?

Is your USB drive USB 2.0, formatted FAT, and less than 32 GB?

[[email protected]]

You must not be using the USB stick at the end of each flight.
I think the key is that you must shut off the FLARM, then insert the USB memory stick, then turn the FLARM back on and it downloads the just flown flight log. I flew with my PowerFLarm for the first time last summer, did this action, and every log was transfered to the USB memory stick and I posted them that evening on OLC.

[Movses]

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:55:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> You must not be using the USB stick at the end of each flight.
> I think the key is that you must shut off the FLARM, then insert the USB memory stick, then turn the FLARM back on and it downloads the just flown flight log. I flew with my PowerFLarm for the first time last summer, did this action, and every log was transfered to the USB memory stick and I posted them that evening on OLC.

The answers to this is pretty much all previous questions is yes...
To my best knowledge:

- configuration file is uploaded
- usb stick in, then power on, monitor led, power off when done.
- not sure on firmware, will give this another try when I get to the airport next time.

Sigh.. I'm a software engineer, I'm usually the one who's good with this stuff :)

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 23:41:34 -0700, Movses wrote:

> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:55:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> You must not be using the USB stick at the end of each flight.
>> I think the key is that you must shut off the FLARM, then insert the
>> USB memory stick, then turn the FLARM back on and it downloads the just
>> flown flight log. I flew with my PowerFLarm for the first time last
>> summer, did this action, and every log was transfered to the USB memory
>> stick and I posted them that evening on OLC.
>
A standard FLARM typically holds up to the last ten flight logs in its
internal memory. If its an LX RedBox FLARM, when you put the SD card in
and turn it on, ALL the logs that aren't already recorded on the card are
written to it. The red LED flashes while its doing this. Its quite slow,
taking noticeably more time to write several logs than just one.

Since all FLARMs run the same software, they should all do the same. I'd
be surprised if the PowerFLARM doesn't do it too.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

What display do you use and is its firmware the latest?

Post your flarmcfg.txt file here - it may explain the problem (or email it to me).

You haven't answered what firmware for your CORE you're running.

You haven't answered what size USB drive you're using, nor confirmed it's USB 2.0, nor what it is formatted as.

Have you tried downloading with someone else's USB drive, which is confirmed to work?

[Dan Marotta]

As an uninterested party, I've got to ask: How is this update
information requirement disseminated?

The reason I ask is that, two days ago, someone at Moriarty told me that
he had to figure out why his Flarm didn't work. I told him that I'd
seen on RAS that there's a mandatory update required. I would have
thought all owners would have been notified.

On 3/10/2015 12:41 AM, Movses wrote:
> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:55:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> You must not be using the USB stick at the end of each flight.
>> I think the key is that you must shut off the FLARM, then insert the USB memory stick, then turn the FLARM back on and it downloads the just flown flight log. I flew with my PowerFLarm for the first time last summer, did this action, and every log was transfered to the USB memory stick and I posted them that evening on OLC.
> The answers to this is pretty much all previous questions is yes...
> To my best knowledge:
>
> - configuration file is uploaded
> - usb stick in, then power on, monitor led, power off when done.
> - not sure on firmware, will give this another try when I get to the airport next time.
>
> Sigh.. I'm a software engineer, I'm usually the one who's good with this stuff :)

--
Dan Marotta

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 11:13:35 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> As an uninterested party, I've got to ask:* How is this update
> information requirement disseminated?
>
>
>
> The reason I ask is that, two days ago, someone at Moriarty told me
> that he had to figure out why his Flarm didn't work.* I told him
> that I'd seen on RAS that there's a mandatory update required.* I
> would have thought all owners would have been notified.
>

I was notified through the PowerFLARM newsletter, by e-mail, Feb 2nd at 4:34PM. If he's not on the list for the newsletter, he can sign up through a link on: http://www.powerflarm.aero/index.php/en/knowledge-and-support ; there is also a notification on that page of the mandatory update, and links to the latest firmware (so far, no update is there - but I live in hope). There is also a link to the latest Butterfly Display software (therefore, a good page to bookmark).

In the manual, page 23, it says there is a mandatory update as of 31 March 2015.

I read somewhere they recommend reinserting the firmware annually, but for the life of me, cannot find where it says that.

2D

[Paul Remde]

Hi Movses,

I suspect that the USB flash drive is not compatible for some reason.
Perhaps it is formatted using FAT instead of FAT32 or vice versa. Or
perhaps it is too large in regard to capacity. What is the capacity of the
USB flash drive?

It is my understanding that the PowerFLARM Core and Core Pure units will
always log a flight that is accepted by the OLC. The IGC enable and a
calibration make them valid for badges and most records.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
____________________________________

"Movses" wrote in message
...

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:55:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> You must not be using the USB stick at the end of each flight.
> I think the key is that you must shut off the FLARM, then insert the USB
> memory stick, then turn the FLARM back on and it downloads the just flown
> flight log. I flew with my PowerFLarm for the first time last summer, did
> this action, and every log was transfered to the USB memory stick and I
> posted them that evening on OLC.

The answers to this is pretty much all previous questions is yes...
To my best knowledge:

- configuration file is uploaded
- usb stick in, then power on, monitor led, power off when done.
- not sure on firmware, will give this another try when I get to the airport
next time.

Sigh.. I'm a software engineer, I'm usually the one who's good with this
stuff :)

[Movses]

Thanks everybody for replies;

this confirms that at least, I have the correct understanding of the process.

I'll recheck everything when I get to the ship next time and follow up.

Movses

On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 10:47:04 AM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi Movses,
>
> I suspect that the USB flash drive is not compatible for some reason.
> Perhaps it is formatted using FAT instead of FAT32 or vice versa. Or
> perhaps it is too large in regard to capacity. What is the capacity of the
> USB flash drive?
>
> It is my understanding that the PowerFLARM Core and Core Pure units will
> always log a flight that is accepted by the OLC. The IGC enable and a
> calibration make them valid for badges and most records.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> ____________________________________
>
> "Movses" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:55:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > You must not be using the USB stick at the end of each flight.
> > I think the key is that you must shut off the FLARM, then insert the USB
> > memory stick, then turn the FLARM back on and it downloads the just flown
> > flight log. I flew with my PowerFLarm for the first time last summer, did
> > this action, and every log was transfered to the USB memory stick and I
> > posted them that evening on OLC.
>
> The answers to this is pretty much all previous questions is yes...
> To my best knowledge:
>
> - configuration file is uploaded
> - usb stick in, then power on, monitor led, power off when done.
> - not sure on firmware, will give this another try when I get to the airport
> next time.
>
> Sigh.. I'm a software engineer, I'm usually the one who's good with this
> stuff :)

[Tim Newport-Peace[_2_]]

At 17:46 10 March 2015, Paul Remde wrote:
>Hi Movses,
>
>I suspect that the USB flash drive is not compatible for some reason.
>Perhaps it is formatted using FAT instead of FAT32 or vice versa. Or
>perhaps it is too large in regard to capacity. What is the capacity of
the
>
>USB flash drive?
>
>It is my understanding that the PowerFLARM Core and Core Pure units will
>always log a flight that is accepted by the OLC. The IGC enable and a
>calibration make them valid for badges and most records.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Paul Remde
>Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>____________________________________
>

Badges up to Diamond, but not IGC Records.

[Richard[_9_]]

USB sticks should:
· be formatted with FAT (FAT16 or FAT32) file system (NTFS or
exFAT will not work)
· have capacity <= 32GB
· Be of USB 2.0 type (not USB 3.0; USB 3.0 connectors are typically
blue on the inside).

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Paul Remde]

Hi Tim,

Can it be used for U.S. state records?

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"Tim Newport-Peace" wrote in message
...

At 17:46 10 March 2015, Paul Remde wrote:
>Hi Movses,
>
>I suspect that the USB flash drive is not compatible for some reason.
>Perhaps it is formatted using FAT instead of FAT32 or vice versa. Or
>perhaps it is too large in regard to capacity. What is the capacity of
the
>
>USB flash drive?
>
>It is my understanding that the PowerFLARM Core and Core Pure units will
>always log a flight that is accepted by the OLC. The IGC enable and a
>calibration make them valid for badges and most records.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Paul Remde
>Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>____________________________________
>

Badges up to Diamond, but not IGC Records.

[Tim Newport-Peace[_2_]]

Hi Paul,

What any country accepts for their National/State records is up to their
N.A.C., which would be SSA for US presumably.

I specifically said IGC records to avoid any confusion between IGC
Continental/World Records and National Records.

So for US State Records, you would need to ask SSA, I guess.

Best regards,

Tim.
--
At 02:59 11 March 2015, Paul Remde wrote:
>Hi Tim,
>
>Can it be used for U.S. state records?
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Paul Remde
>
>"Tim Newport-Peace" wrote in message
...
>
>At 17:46 10 March 2015, Paul Remde wrote:
>>Hi Movses,
>>
>>I suspect that the USB flash drive is not compatible for some reason.
>>Perhaps it is formatted using FAT instead of FAT32 or vice versa. Or
>>perhaps it is too large in regard to capacity. What is the capacity of
>the
>>
>>USB flash drive?
>>
>>It is my understanding that the PowerFLARM Core and Core Pure units will
>>always log a flight that is accepted by the OLC. The IGC enable and a
>>calibration make them valid for badges and most records.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Paul Remde
>>Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>>____________________________________
>>
>
>Badges up to Diamond, but not IGC Records.
>
>

[Movses]

To conclude this (from my side),

I reformatted the stick, using full, not quick format.
I was able to upload the new firmware, and download all the flights that have accumulated up to this point.

I've done everything else exactly the same as before. I also believe that the stick was formatted with FAT32 before, but, somehow doing a full reformat helped.

Thanks everybody!