Re: First glider Nimbus 2 ?

[Max Kirschner[_3_]]

At 18:24 16 March 2015, wrote:
>On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 8:11:44 PM UTC-7, Surge wrote:
>> A Nimbus 2 is on the market which I'm interested in as my first glider
>an=
>d I'd like some feedback from those who've owned or flown one.

I owned a Nimbus 2c, It has exactly the same performance as the 2a and 2b,
but the handling was better with the fixed tail and the trailing edge
brakes. I thought it was a great cross country glider, and did my 750 kms
in it. However without water it was like flying a paperbag, which meant it
would climb on next to nothing on the last climb of the day, but was a
handful to fly empty in rough thermals. I always flew with a minimum of 10
gallons a side.

Some people who flew the Nimbus for the first time found the delayed
response and lack of coordination difficult to get used to. And a number
groundlooped on landing in cross winds.

Having said that there was a young girl at my club who flew a Nimbus2b
exceptionally well. Now an airline pilot.

Recently a friend was killed in a Field landing in a Nimbus, and he had
been flying it for many years.

The Nimbus had a 50 to 1 Glide, at a low speed, but above 90 knots it would
be beaten by an LS 3 or LS 8. The time it came into its own was at the end
of the day in weak thermals and when flown at Max LD.
The main advantages to me was the trail edge brakes which meant I could get
into a really small field, and being 6 foot 4 tall and 105 kilos the
cockpit was large and comfortable, I moved down into the Nimbus from an ASH
25 which I found uncomfortable when flown from the front.
In the end its horses for courses, If you are large and a skilled pilot you
can't beat it.
Max

[[email protected]]

Hi Surge

Just wondering if you ended up buying a glider and if so, what did you get?

[Surge]

On Thursday, 3 November 2016 17:25:27 UTC+2, wrote:
> Hi Surge
>
> Just wondering if you ended up buying a glider and if so, what did you get?

I bought a Nimbus 2 but life got in the way so I haven't flown it yet.
Once she's back from a refurbishment next year I'll see how she flies.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 11:19:18 PM UTC-7, Surge wrote:
> On Thursday, 3 November 2016 17:25:27 UTC+2, wrote:
> > Hi Surge
> >
> > Just wondering if you ended up buying a glider and if so, what did you get?
>
> I bought a Nimbus 2 but life got in the way so I haven't flown it yet.
> Once she's back from a refurbishment next year I'll see how she flies.

Life certainly has an annoying way of doing that, doesn't it? At least you'll have twenty meters of glider waiting for you next year!

[Surge]

I decided to update the thread in case anyone else considers purchasing a Nimbus 2 as a first glider.

I've finally managed to fly my Nimbus 2 a couple of times (just over four hours) with the odds stacked up in my favour (good weather, no human performance limitations, etc.) and I love it!
The jump from flying unflapped, nose hook equipped, fixed tail plane sailplanes to a flapped, CG hook equipped, all flying stab sailplane is really not as bad as some people make it out to be. Just fly the plane, keep the airspeed up and don't do anything stupid.
The all flying stabilizer is pitch sensitive but nothing too concerning and it shouldn't cause any PIOs unless one is flying behind the curve. There is a noticeable pitch up moment if one gets some slack in the tow rope but it just takes a couple of jerks to start anticipating and countering with a touch of down elevator as the slack is taken up. Roll rate is a bit slower than most singles but still more than adequate if you're not flying near minimum sink or stall speed. I find her way more nimble than a Twin Astir but then most gliders will feel more nimble than a Twin!
There is plenty of buffeting when stalling in a straight line and she will promptly drop a wing at 70 to 75 kph if one tries to pick up a wing with full aileron. That is what I expected.
Air brakes are adequate for landing in medium to large fields and landing flaps add a very noticeable amount drag. I haven't fitted the tail chute as there are plenty of large fields to land in and I don't need any surprises just yet. She lands fully stalled with full air brake and so far no issues and no bounces.
I found flaps were a cinch to get used to. I'm not sure why everyone raises their eye brows when going from unflapped to flapped but I guess not everyone adapts at the same pace.
Take off with full negative flaps works well with no tendency to drop a wing although I haven't tried with any light tail wind or moderate cross winds yet and I don't plan to try until I've got numerous flights and hours on the type.
It took a few minutes to get used to the way the glider behaves when hitting thermals. The single Astirs and Twin Astirs I trained on get a large bump in airspeed (Yates Effect) when hitting an updraft which normally requires a fair bit of elevator input to maintain a constant airspeed. I found the Nimbus 2 basically retrims itself with very little or no elevator input when hitting updrafts which I found a bit odd during my first flight. Maybe it's because the CG is close to the middle of the limits or more likely the bump upwards is actually moving my hand on the stick slightly backwards without me noticing.

I'd not necessarily recommend a Nimbus 2 for first timers like myself with only about 50 hours of dual and solo flight, but if you're comfortable with flying, can adapt quickly and ensure you stack the odds in your favour for at least the first 50 hours, I don't see anything concerning to write home about.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 10:28:17 AM UTC-4, Surge wrote:
> I decided to update the thread in case anyone else considers purchasing a Nimbus 2 as a first glider.
.... some deleted ....
quote> Take off with full negative flaps works well with no tendency to drop a wing although I haven't tried with any light tail wind or moderate cross winds yet and I don't plan to try until I've got numerous flights and hours on the type. <unquote

Good airmanship says you shouldn't launch with a tail wind or even a moderate crosswind, and that is doubly so with an older generation open class glider (and doubly again if you are relatively inexperienced). You can usually get away with it - for a while - but eventually it will catch up with you. At the pre-SSA Convention safety talk, one phrase really hit home. Burt Compton said his Dad told him "In aviation, anything you do for convenience jacks up the risk." (I think I wrote it down correctly). At my home field, I have come to the front of the launch line and looked at the windsock, and hooked up to the car and taken the glider to the other end, when I see a tailwind (followed by a safe tow). You shouldn't accept a launch with a slight downwind component which has developed since morning launch direction was decided... Granted, I fly a 55, and standard class gliders of that generation don't handle tailwinds or quartering tailwinds very well (and my previous Austria SH-1 was the same), and I don't have negative flaps.

I realize it is a PITA to pack everything up and do the 'march of the elephants' to the other (correct) end (and in some circumstances (large contests) it may not be the best choice, but casually accepting that you will, in the future, choose to launch downwind is opening one of those holes in the "Swiss Cheese Model of Aviation Accidents". Some of the holes you cannot close; the more of them that "... jack up the risk..", the less safe you are. Especially in an early-generation open class glider.

I wish you safe flights and much enjoyment in a beautiful glider.

Cheers
Dan

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I fly from an airport where for many very good reasons we only launch to the West. Yet in the winter we have many days of Santa Ana (strong East winds). The operators of this airport have 30 plus years of experience with downwind takeoffs. I personally have flown take offs with paying passengers in a 2-32 or G-103 with quartering tailwinds of up to 26 knots, any higher than that I let the owners fly. After some number of these launches they really become a non-event. I have flown take off's with an ASW-24 or Ventus 2c with up to 18 knots of quartering tailwind as do the other private pilots.

Maxims while useful have limitations. Pilot need to be able to fly the conditions given.
The most important thing to do when flying in challenging conditions, set the controls for the wind before the take off roll, i.e., if you have a x-wind from left before the roll begins put in right rudder keep left wing low

Experience of the operators and pilots makes a big difference.
>On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 8:00:25 AM UTC-7, Dan Daly wrote:
Good airmanship says you shouldn't launch with a tail wind or even a moderate crosswind, and that is doubly so with an older generation open class glider (and doubly again if you are relatively inexperienced). You can usually get away with it - for a while - but eventually it will catch up with you.. At the pre-SSA Convention safety talk, one phrase really hit home. Burt Compton said his Dad told him "In aviation, anything you do for convenience jacks up the risk." (I think I wrote it down correctly). At my home field, I have come to the front of the launch line and looked at the windsock, and hooked up to the car and taken the glider to the other end, when I see a tailwind (followed by a safe tow). You shouldn't accept a launch with a slight downwind component which has developed since morning launch direction was decided... Granted, I fly a 55, and standard class gliders of that generation don't handle tailwinds or quartering tailwinds very well (and my previous Austria SH-1 was the same), and I don't have negative flaps.
>
> I realize it is a PITA to pack everything up and do the 'march of the elephants' to the other (correct) end (and in some circumstances (large contests) it may not be the best choice, but casually accepting that you will, in the future, choose to launch downwind is opening one of those holes in the "Swiss Cheese Model of Aviation Accidents". Some of the holes you cannot close; the more of them that "... jack up the risk..", the less safe you are.. Especially in an early-generation open class glider.
>
> I wish you safe flights and much enjoyment in a beautiful glider.
>
> Cheers
> Dan

[George Haeh]

A few years ago the crosswind was picking up and the decision was made to
change runways after I took off. The towplane drifted to the downwind side
of
the runway while I was:

1. busy maintaining wings level

2. the tow rope was overpowering the towplane rudder the farther the
towplane
drifted downwind.

Once airborne I lined up behind the towplane sharpish maybe a half second
before he was going to dump me to avoid going off into the crop.

I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine appropriate
positioning
of the towplane and glider in a strong crosswind.

[Chris Rowland[_2_]]

At 20:05 19 April 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>I fly from an airport where for many very good reasons we only launch to
>th=
>e West. Yet in the winter we have many days of Santa Ana (strong East
>wind=
>s). The operators of this airport have 30 plus years of experience with
>do=
>wnwind takeoffs. I personally have flown take offs with paying
passengers
>=
>in a 2-32 or G-103 with quartering tailwinds of up to 26 knots, any
higher
>=
>than that I let the owners fly. After some number of these launches they
>r=
>eally become a non-event. I have flown take off's with an ASW-24 or
>Ventus=
> 2c with up to 18 knots of quartering tailwind as do the other private
>pilo=
>ts.

I'm curious about what techniques you use to take off with a strong
tailwind, do you just let the wing drag until you have forward airspeed,
then pick it up?

Chris

[[email protected]]

My first glider is a LAK-12. Same wing profile and performance as a Nimbus 2. Moved onto the LAK straight after flying ASK-23 and ASK-21 training gliders. Its a big, friendly dog - way more docile than the Standard and 15m gliders I have flown subsequently. There are challenges - the long low wings can catch long grass easily, and circuit planning needs to be done more carefully because the glider just doesn't want to come down. Flaps are like changing gears in a car - become second nature after a while especially if used to driving a manual car. The benefits of a big old open class is the performance for the price - phenomenal. Downsides - finding out who your true friends are when sitting in a field or when arriving at the airfield and announcing the LAK needs some hands to help rig. Owned the glider now for 15 years and it's still an absolute joy to fly.

[Burt Compton - Marfa Gliders, west Texas]

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 10:00:25 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:

At the pre-SSA Convention safety talk, one phrase really hit home. Burt Compton said his Dad told him "In aviation, anything you do for convenience jacks up the risk." (I think I wrote it down correctly).


Yes that's what I said however my next sentence was
"If you are aware of the extra risk and can handle it, then proceed."

Typical "convenience" scenarios may include downwind takeoffs, intersection takeoffs, landing behind the grid of sailplanes lined up to launch on the runway, downwind landings, rolling out very close to your hangar/car/trailer (what if the wheel brake fails?)

Ask me how I know! (51 years in soaring, so I may have successfully accomplished all of the above however downwind takeoffs with a CG tow hook have resulted in a couple of very early releases on the initial roll due to loss of directional control.)

If you can handle the extra risk . . . well, that's your decision.
And just because you did it 99 times before . . .

Burt
Marfa, Texas

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Op donderdag 19 april 2018 16:28:17 UTC+2 schreef Surge:
> I decided to update the thread in case anyone else considers purchasing a Nimbus 2 as a first glider.
>
> I've finally managed to fly my Nimbus 2 a couple of times (just over four hours) with the odds stacked up in my favour (good weather, no human performance limitations, etc.) and I love it!
> The jump from flying unflapped, nose hook equipped, fixed tail plane sailplanes to a flapped, CG hook equipped, all flying stab sailplane is really not as bad as some people make it out to be. Just fly the plane, keep the airspeed up and don't do anything stupid.
> The all flying stabilizer is pitch sensitive but nothing too concerning and it shouldn't cause any PIOs unless one is flying behind the curve. There is a noticeable pitch up moment if one gets some slack in the tow rope but it just takes a couple of jerks to start anticipating and countering with a touch of down elevator as the slack is taken up. Roll rate is a bit slower than most singles but still more than adequate if you're not flying near minimum sink or stall speed. I find her way more nimble than a Twin Astir but then most gliders will feel more nimble than a Twin!
> There is plenty of buffeting when stalling in a straight line and she will promptly drop a wing at 70 to 75 kph if one tries to pick up a wing with full aileron. That is what I expected.
> Air brakes are adequate for landing in medium to large fields and landing flaps add a very noticeable amount drag. I haven't fitted the tail chute as there are plenty of large fields to land in and I don't need any surprises just yet. She lands fully stalled with full air brake and so far no issues and no bounces.
> I found flaps were a cinch to get used to. I'm not sure why everyone raises their eye brows when going from unflapped to flapped but I guess not everyone adapts at the same pace.
> Take off with full negative flaps works well with no tendency to drop a wing although I haven't tried with any light tail wind or moderate cross winds yet and I don't plan to try until I've got numerous flights and hours on the type.
> It took a few minutes to get used to the way the glider behaves when hitting thermals. The single Astirs and Twin Astirs I trained on get a large bump in airspeed (Yates Effect) when hitting an updraft which normally requires a fair bit of elevator input to maintain a constant airspeed. I found the Nimbus 2 basically retrims itself with very little or no elevator input when hitting updrafts which I found a bit odd during my first flight. Maybe it's because the CG is close to the middle of the limits or more likely the bump upwards is actually moving my hand on the stick slightly backwards without me noticing.
>
> I'd not necessarily recommend a Nimbus 2 for first timers like myself with only about 50 hours of dual and solo flight, but if you're comfortable with flying, can adapt quickly and ensure you stack the odds in your favour for at least the first 50 hours, I don't see anything concerning to write home about.

I was really thinking about buying a Nimbus 2 as my first glider. I ended up buying a DG-101 however, as it is easy to rig, even alone, great view and nice handling. Still got some work to do before my first flight (8.33 radio soldering and logger) but will probably enjoy this beauty.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Helps to have a 300 hp tug or when that one is down a 220 hp tug. A young wing runner who knows to keep the upwind wing low, and then there have been a few interesting rides. I am always ready to release until I have aileron control. And practice, 5-11 tows a day. After a few Sundays it was normal so when we had a tailwind of only 8 knots that was like a 10 knot headwind! There are pilots out there whom safely fly everyday in very challenging conditions, I admire them. We have pilots who fly 2-33's in conditions I prefer not to fly.


On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:15:06 AM UTC-7, Chris Rowland wrote:
> At 20:05 19 April 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> >I fly from an airport where for many very good reasons we only launch to
> >th=
> >e West. Yet in the winter we have many days of Santa Ana (strong East
> >wind=
> >s). The operators of this airport have 30 plus years of experience with
> >do=
> >wnwind takeoffs. I personally have flown take offs with paying
> passengers
> >=
> >in a 2-32 or G-103 with quartering tailwinds of up to 26 knots, any
> higher
> >=
> >than that I let the owners fly. After some number of these launches they
> >r=
> >eally become a non-event. I have flown take off's with an ASW-24 or
> >Ventus=
> > 2c with up to 18 knots of quartering tailwind as do the other private
> >pilo=
> >ts.
>
> I'm curious about what techniques you use to take off with a strong
> tailwind, do you just let the wing drag until you have forward airspeed,
> then pick it up?
>
> Chris