Lower Priced ADS-B Out Solution

[Dan Marotta]

A start in the right direction for those who feel they must have this:
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/March/17/FreeFlight-Equip-It-2020?WT.mc_id=150320epilot&WT.mc_sect=tec
--
Dan Marotta

[[email protected]]

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 10:46:07 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> A start in the right direction for those who feel they must have
> this:* http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/March/17/FreeFlight-Equip-It-2020?WT.mc_id=150320epilot&WT.mc_sect=tec
>
>
> --
>
> Dan Marotta

UAT. Cue the usual argument. In short: skip this junk.

The other day I saw an article that indicated an approved GPS
source was being offered for $800. This is what you want to plug
into your existing Mode S transponder to get ADS-B out.
Unfortunately I can't find the article. I'm pretty sure it
was on eBrief, but there isn't a way to search their archives.
You can browse them one at a time but I'm not seeing the article now.

Matt

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks, but no thanks. I will continue to not install expensive and non
required equipment in my glider. I only posted that for the techno-hogs
that need such stuff. :-P

On 3/20/2015 10:55 AM, wrote:
> On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 10:46:07 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> A start in the right direction for those who feel they must have
>> this: http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/March/17/FreeFlight-Equip-It-2020?WT.mc_id=150320epilot&WT.mc_sect=tec
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dan Marotta
> UAT. Cue the usual argument. In short: skip this junk.
>
> The other day I saw an article that indicated an approved GPS
> source was being offered for $800. This is what you want to plug
> into your existing Mode S transponder to get ADS-B out.
> Unfortunately I can't find the article. I'm pretty sure it
> was on eBrief, but there isn't a way to search their archives.
> You can browse them one at a time but I'm not seeing the article now.
>
> Matt

--
Dan Marotta

[Bill T]

But we need it for the Pawnee! We are inside the 30nm vail.
You will too if you tow above 10,000 MSL.

BillT

[Bill T]

UAT out meets the requirement. Granted FLARM won't see UAT, but we only have one FLARM unit right now in the area.
TCAS gets an alert from my mode C, and the big boys with ADSB In will get the ADSB rebroadcast data from the ground station.

BillT

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 4:37:18 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
> UAT out meets the requirement. Granted FLARM won't see UAT, but we only have one FLARM unit right now in the area.
> TCAS gets an alert from my mode C, and the big boys with ADSB In will get the ADSB rebroadcast data from the ground station.
>
> BillT

Check the installation costs, including ADS-B antenna diversity requirements, plus maintenance for two separate transmitters (Mode C plus ADS-B UAT). Buying a single Mode S/1090ES Out may be a better option in the end.

[Bill T]

Thanks Andy, will do. We have an ancient KT Mode C, we'll need to add approved GPS receiver, 1090ES and compatible altitude encoder, plus an ADS-B out box to tie together.

BillT

[Dan Marotta]

Absolutely correct, Bill, but I tell all the glider pilots that I won't
tow them above 10K MSL since the tug doesn't have a transponder.
Besides, who needs to tow to 3,800' AGL? We don't have the problem that
you have with Las Vegas...

BTW, is there gonna be another ground launch weekend next month? We're
itching to try out our new RV (which we haven't taken delivery of as yet).

Dan

On 3/20/2015 5:33 PM, Bill T wrote:
> But we need it for the Pawnee! We are inside the 30nm vail.
> You will too if you tow above 10,000 MSL.
>
> BillT

--
Dan Marotta

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 7:46:07 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> A start in the right direction for those who feel they must have
> this:* http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/March/17/FreeFlight-Equip-It-2020?WT.mc_id=150320epilot&WT.mc_sect=tec
>
>
> --
>
> Dan Marotta

Luckily we still have 5 years to go until FAA ADS-B Out carriage requirements could affect any tow plane. In those 5 years I expect you'll see lots of other low-cost ADS-B out solutions appear. Including combined transponder/1090ES Out/IFR GPS units, and besides better inter-operating with PowerFLARM's 1090ES input, those may be more interesting for folks with older transponders. Especially if they are drop in replacements for current transponders, especially transponders that may be getting less reliable and expensive to maintain. A single-box transponder also removes the issues Andy mentioned, which can get down to install/approval issues around antenna installs and common squawk code setting requirements, etc. -- all much easier if there is just a single integrated box.

[Bill T]

Dan we have the BLM reservation for the 17-18-19 of April. The Pawnee is in Parowan getting the wings recoverd. We are hoping it will be back in time to get us to the lake bed. Hard to move the 2-33 or Grob down there without it. I'll let you know.

It looks like Tonopah will the the 21st to 27th of June.
BillT

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks Bill,

PM sent.

On 3/21/2015 8:31 PM, Bill T wrote:
> Dan we have the BLM reservation for the 17-18-19 of April. The Pawnee is in Parowan getting the wings recoverd. We are hoping it will be back in time to get us to the lake bed. Hard to move the 2-33 or Grob down there without it. I'll let you know.
>
> It looks like Tonopah will the the 21st to 27th of June.
> BillT

--
Dan Marotta

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Saturday, March 21, 2015 at 5:53:06 AM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
> Thanks Andy, will do. We have an ancient KT Mode C, we'll need to add approved GPS receiver, 1090ES and compatible altitude encoder, plus an ADS-B out box to tie together.
>
> BillT

Hi Bill,

It wasn't totally clear from your post, but to clarify...Modern Mode S transponders should transmit 1090ES Out with the addition for a properly configured GPS. The 'ES' stands for 'Extended Squitter' with appends the GPS information to the Mode S broadcast. Since it operates on the same frequency as Mode C, you should be able to upgrade transponders without changing antenna installation. It seems likely that if you wait, there will be available on the market an integrated Mode S/1090ES Out box with built in GPS, in which case all you'd be able to reuse the Mode C antenna, antenna cable run and power and simply find a spot for the GPS antenna. I'm not sure about the altitude encoder - I think generally access to a static line is the only necessity.

Keeping the old Mode C and adding ADS-B UAT Out entails not only the GPS, but running additional power and (probably) a circuit breaker, one or maybe two additional ADS-B antennas and coax runs, double the inspection and maintenance and in all likelihood more debugging for interoperability. To the extent that the UAT Out has some sort of control head you'll need find a place to mount that too. Lastly you'll have to face the inevitability of being stuck with two systems forever (even after your Mode C finally gives up the ghost). Since Mode S and UAT operate on different frequencies they cannot be combined and will always require separate antennae. If you make the investment in UAT, switching back over to 1090ES Out once your Mode C dies entails also throwing out the relatively newer UAT gear, pulling the antennae, etc. Would be a bit messy and expensive.

Andy, 9B

[Bill T]

Thanks Andy.
It would be great if they came up with a 1090ES system with built in GPS reciever, all in one box would be great.
Yes, all of the UAT systems I have seen require their own control head. You can't just program it and forget it.
Not much room on a Pawnee panel.

I had your old LS-4 "9B" out for a spring cleanup and on display at the VGT Open House yesterday. It's ready for the summer season.
BillT

[Dan Marotta]

You'll also need power to your encoder if it's a separate box. It has a
heater for the pressure transducer.

On 3/22/2015 12:32 PM, Andy Blackburn wrote:
> On Saturday, March 21, 2015 at 5:53:06 AM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
>> Thanks Andy, will do. We have an ancient KT Mode C, we'll need to add approved GPS receiver, 1090ES and compatible altitude encoder, plus an ADS-B out box to tie together.
>>
>> BillT
> Hi Bill,
>
> It wasn't totally clear from your post, but to clarify...Modern Mode S transponders should transmit 1090ES Out with the addition for a properly configured GPS. The 'ES' stands for 'Extended Squitter' with appends the GPS information to the Mode S broadcast. Since it operates on the same frequency as Mode C, you should be able to upgrade transponders without changing antenna installation. It seems likely that if you wait, there will be available on the market an integrated Mode S/1090ES Out box with built in GPS, in which case all you'd be able to reuse the Mode C antenna, antenna cable run and power and simply find a spot for the GPS antenna. I'm not sure about the altitude encoder - I think generally access to a static line is the only necessity.
>
> Keeping the old Mode C and adding ADS-B UAT Out entails not only the GPS, but running additional power and (probably) a circuit breaker, one or maybe two additional ADS-B antennas and coax runs, double the inspection and maintenance and in all likelihood more debugging for interoperability. To the extent that the UAT Out has some sort of control head you'll need find a place to mount that too. Lastly you'll have to face the inevitability of being stuck with two systems forever (even after your Mode C finally gives up the ghost). Since Mode S and UAT operate on different frequencies they cannot be combined and will always require separate antennae. If you make the investment in UAT, switching back over to 1090ES Out once your Mode C dies entails also throwing out the relatively newer UAT gear, pulling the antennae, etc. Would be a bit messy and expensive.
>
> Andy, 9B

--
Dan Marotta

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 12:48:37 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:

> I had your old LS-4 "9B" out for a spring cleanup and on display at the VGT Open House yesterday. It's ready for the summer season.
> BillT

Many happy flights in that ship.