Quick Question...

[Ohmelads]

Is it possible to start a simulation without the engines running? Is
there something you can click in the settings to get this to happen?

[Quilljar]

Ohmelads wrote:
> Is it possible to start a simulation without the engines running? Is
> there something you can click in the settings to get this to happen?


Of course. Set up the aircraft you want with engine off, and every switch
and so on how you want it. Set the view you require and the weather at the
part of your chosen airport whereyou wish to start.

Then save the flight and make it your default. Voila!


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[Anonymous]

Quilljar wrote in message ...
>Ohmelads wrote:
>> Is it possible to start a simulation without the engines running? Is
>> there something you can click in the settings to get this to happen?
>
>
>Of course. Set up the aircraft you want with engine off, and every switch
>and so on how you want it. Set the view you require and the weather at the
>part of your chosen airport whereyou wish to start.
>
>Then save the flight and make it your default. Voila!

Well, yeah; that's one way of doing it.

Doesn't seem to make much sense, though - this would mean that every time
he wants to start a flight from a cold, dark aircraft, he has to go through
all that.

I think there should be a switch in FS that allows you to do this (next
version, please MS?)

But there's a gauge you can download that you install into the panel of
any given aircraft, and whenever you use it, you start up cold & dark.

I can't remember the name of it offhand, but it's on

http://library.avsim.net

Hope this helps

Cheers
Graeme

[J Kelley]

"Anonymous" > wrote in message
...
>
> Quilljar wrote in message ...
> >Ohmelads wrote:
> >> Is it possible to start a simulation without the engines running? Is
> >> there something you can click in the settings to get this to happen?
> >
> >
> >Of course. Set up the aircraft you want with engine off, and every switch
> >and so on how you want it. Set the view you require and the weather at
the
> >part of your chosen airport whereyou wish to start.
> >
> >Then save the flight and make it your default. Voila!
>
> Well, yeah; that's one way of doing it.
>

Well, yeah; that's the best way of doing it.

> Doesn't seem to make much sense, though - this would mean that every time
> he wants to start a flight from a cold, dark aircraft, he has to go
through
> all that.
>

Makes perfect sense to me. If, as suggested, he sets the saved flight to
his default, he has a cold, dark aircraft on start up. I'm willing to wager
that was what Quilljar meant when he wrote "Voila!" I second the "Voila!"

> I think there should be a switch in FS that allows you to do this (next
> version, please MS?)
>

I'm also willing to wager that all PC systems used for flight simulation
include a peripheral set of switches well suited for saving flights and
selecting saved flights. I'm confident that yours is so equipped, along
with a "mouse" or some other pointing/selecting device that can also be used
for such tasks.

> But there's a gauge you can download that you install into the panel of
> any given aircraft, and whenever you use it, you start up cold & dark.
>

I admit, that could come in handy.

> I can't remember the name of it offhand,

Well, dang!

>but it's on
>
> http://library.avsim.net
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
>

Thanks, Graeme. It probably will help those who are willing to spend the
time to search the avsim library, especially if they also have the time and
means to deal with unforeseen conflicts. Of course, the "guage" is probably
harmless. Still, although I like good upgrades and add-ons, I prefer to
avoid tinkering for small and questionable gains, especially when the stock
product provides a suitable means for obtaining the desired result.

Kalijaa

[Anonymous]

J Kelley wrote in message ...
>Thanks, Graeme. It probably will help those who are willing to spend the
>time to search the avsim library, especially if they also have the time and
>means to deal with unforeseen conflicts. Of course, the "guage" is probably
>harmless. Still, although I like good upgrades and add-ons, I prefer to
>avoid tinkering for small and questionable gains, especially when the stock
>product provides a suitable means for obtaining the desired result.

Suitable, yes - ideal, no.

The game is marketed "As Real As It Gets", right ?

So you're saying that a real airline pilot will get into an aircraft, and,
handily, someone will have started up the engines for him ?

No! You get into an aircraft, and you go through the power up sequence,
start up the engines, and then lay in your course.

Now if I have 300 odd different aircraft, but always want to start up the
game environment in a cold dark cockpit, that involves having to save a
different flight every time. Which is a lame solution.

So this is why Matthias Lieberecht wrote "Cold and Dark Cockpit Gauge". The
file, which is called "mlcadgau.zip" is available on http://library.avsim.net
and is really easy to install in your aircraft panels, no matter who made
the aircraft/panel, whether the aircraft/panel is a jet, prop, helicopter,
or whether it is freeware/shareware/payware.

Once its installed, it stays installed, and I don't need to create loads of
flights for each aircraft/situation I might possibly want to fly. Just
install once in each panel.

Now I just put forward a piece of friendly advice, and made a comment about
a feature I think Microsoft should have put into Flight Simulator but didn't,
and you feel justified somehow in putting across a smartarse remark debunking
everything I've said and trying to make me look really ****ing stupid ?

**** off.

Ohmelads - you can use the gauge I mentioned above. It works really well,
and should give you what you need without mucking around too much.

Really, the gauge provides something that Microsoft didn't when they wrote
FS2002. I think there should be an option within the "Settings" -> "Realism"
menu to allow you to start off in a cold dark cockpit. That way you can go
through the startup routines of any aircraft as a real pilot would do.

Cheers
Graeme

[Graeme Porter]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Nouak ]
> Posted At: 21 October 2003 20:36
> Posted To: simulators
> Conversation: Quick Question...
> Subject: Re: Quick Question...
>
>
> Hi Anonymous,
>
> I don't have the gauge in question installed and yet, my sim
> never starts up
> with the engines running.
>
> Mike

Mike,

That's really strange - from the first time I installed FS2002, I have
never started up any aircraft - not even the default aircraft supplied
with the simulation - from cold and dark. I've some friends who live
locally who find that FS2002 aircraft always start engines on.

I have all the realism settings at full, so it can't be that.

Does anyone have a definitive answer to the question...?

Cheers
Graeme

[J Kelley]

"Anonymous" > wrote in message
...
> J Kelley wrote in message ...
> >Thanks, Graeme. It probably will help those who are willing to spend the
> >time to search the avsim library, especially if they also have the time
and
> >means to deal with unforeseen conflicts. Of course, the "guage" is
probably
> >harmless. Still, although I like good upgrades and add-ons, I prefer to
> >avoid tinkering for small and questionable gains, especially when the
stock
> >product provides a suitable means for obtaining the desired result.
>
> Suitable, yes - ideal, no.
>
Ah well, we try and fail, try and fail.
>
> The game is marketed "As Real As It Gets", right ?
>
Indeed it is!! Very good point. What do you consider the key word in the
point you have just made? Is it "Real," or is it "game?"
>
> So you're saying that a real airline pilot will get into an aircraft, and,
> handily, someone will have started up the engines for him ?
>
Oh no, I'm not saying that. I didn't say anything remotely like that. I
did not suggest that "someone will have started up the engines" for anyone
and I didn't even mention airline pilots. I hope they are not, as a group,
miffed and feeling left out. What I did say (that you didn't bother to
re-post) was that I agreed with Quilljar
regarding a method for providing what you and Ohmelads apparantly want: A
cold, dark airplane with engines not running at the start of a simulation.
That is easily accomplished by the method Quilljar suggested:

1. Set up your aircraft with engines not running.
2. Save that set up as a flight.
3. Set that flight as default.

The next time you start the simulation program, it will start with the new
default flight and you will have your cold, dark airplane with engines not
running.
Your default flight will remain the same unless you or someone else
deliberately changes it. Thus, you will have the conditions you like each
time you start your
simulator.
>
> No! You get into an aircraft, and you go through the power up sequence,
> start up the engines, and then lay in your course.
>
Good for you! I wish every pilot would get into their aircraft before they
go through the power up sequence and lay in their course. Save a lot of
needless bother.
>
> Now if I have 300 odd different aircraft, but always want to start up the
> game environment in a cold dark cockpit, that involves having to save a
> different flight every time. Which is a lame solution.
>
Not to mention a rather lame pasttime. Never mind, if you want to fly 300
different airplanes, that's your bliss. You can set up 300 flights with
your desired conditions for each. Only one can be default, but it's as easy
to select another flight as it is to select another aircraft.
>
> So this is why Matthias Lieberecht wrote "Cold and Dark Cockpit Gauge".
The
> file, which is called "mlcadgau.zip" is available on
http://library.avsim.net
> and is really easy to install in your aircraft panels, no matter who made
> the aircraft/panel, whether the aircraft/panel is a jet, prop, helicopter,
> or whether it is freeware/shareware/payware.
>
Thanks for the file name. You remember, I admitted that it might come in
handy.
>
> Once its installed, it stays installed, and I don't need to create loads
of
> flights for each aircraft/situation I might possibly want to fly. Just
> install once in each panel.
>
Gosh, I wonder which would be easier, installing the "gauge" in 300
different panels, or saving 300 different flights? The mind reels.
>
> Now I just put forward a piece of friendly advice, and made a comment
about
> a feature I think Microsoft should have put into Flight Simulator but
didn't,
> and you feel justified somehow in putting across a smartarse remark
debunking
> everything I've said and trying to make me look really ****ing stupid ?
>
No need to thank me. It was nothing, really.
>
> **** off.
>
Temper, temper. You mustn't get so upset. You might start thrashing about
and step on one of your nice shiny airplanes.
>
> Ohmelads - you can use the gauge I mentioned above. It works really well,
> and should give you what you need without mucking around too much.
>
> Really, the gauge provides something that Microsoft didn't when they wrote
> FS2002. I think there should be an option within the "Settings" ->
"Realism"
> menu to allow you to start off in a cold dark cockpit. That way you can
go
> through the startup routines of any aircraft as a real pilot would do.
>
Well, it sems I have to agree with you on another point. The game really
isn't as real as it gets. It only gets as real as it gets for those who land
the kind of jobs most simmers lust after. If only flight simulation could
guarantee such employment for each fledgling after three years simming
(first officer aboard, say at least a 737, or top gun US Navy fighter
pilot), we would hear far fewer of such complaints. When I was a lad, I
received, for small change and a few Ovaltine labels, one of his highly
sought after Decoder Badges and a membership card show the I was a member in
good standing in Captain Midnight's "Secret Squadron." I have to admit that
I was disappointed in the experiences derived from those treasures. The
messages I decoded with the Decoder Badge, telling me to drink more
Ovaltine, didn't seem worth the effort and the "Secret Squadron" wasn't all
that secret. I wanted to fly with my hero, but he never invited me and so I
decided that the badge and the squadron membership weren't "as real as it
gets," 'though not precisely in those terms. I don't remember discarding
them, but neither do I know where the hell they went. My point is just
this: I feel your pain.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
>

Dear Graeme,

The "gauge" may be a keen solution for you and for many others. It might
also suit me, but Quilljar's solution is by far the best answer to Ohmelads
questions:

He asked: "Is it possible to start a simulation without the engines running?

The answer is clearly: Yes.

He also asked: "Is there something you can click in the settings to get this
to happen?"

The answer is: A qualified yes. First, save a flight with engines not
running and then "set" that flight as your default flight.

That answers Ohmelads questions. Of course, there are other solutions that
might suit him better, including the "gauge," but he didn't ask for other
solutions. He asked for a way "to start a simulation without the engines
running." You do not say that the "gauge" will do that. I would expect that
the "gauge" will only work after start up and that is not the same as
starting a simulation without the engines running.

Why, you could even do both. You could start up with dead engines, start
the engines and then shut 'em down with the gauge! Wheeeeee!!

Kalijaa

[Angus Lepper]

Em. Quick question. The default flight thing sounds easier to me, but say
if I:

Get the default flight (Cessna Meigs, active runway etc)
And shut down the engines, and save that as the default,

I then set up a flight with say, the MelJet 777 at KORD with my own weather
etc, will the engines not start up with the flight? Or will I get the wanted
effect of a cold aircraft?

Angus

"J Kelley" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Anonymous" > wrote in message
> ...
> > J Kelley wrote in message ...
> > >Thanks, Graeme. It probably will help those who are willing to spend
the
> > >time to search the avsim library, especially if they also have the time
> and
> > >means to deal with unforeseen conflicts. Of course, the "guage" is
> probably
> > >harmless. Still, although I like good upgrades and add-ons, I prefer
to
> > >avoid tinkering for small and questionable gains, especially when the
> stock
> > >product provides a suitable means for obtaining the desired result.
> >
> > Suitable, yes - ideal, no.
> >
> Ah well, we try and fail, try and fail.
> >
> > The game is marketed "As Real As It Gets", right ?
> >
> Indeed it is!! Very good point. What do you consider the key word in the
> point you have just made? Is it "Real," or is it "game?"
> >
> > So you're saying that a real airline pilot will get into an aircraft,
and,
> > handily, someone will have started up the engines for him ?
> >
> Oh no, I'm not saying that. I didn't say anything remotely like that. I
> did not suggest that "someone will have started up the engines" for anyone
> and I didn't even mention airline pilots. I hope they are not, as a
group,
> miffed and feeling left out. What I did say (that you didn't bother to
> re-post) was that I agreed with Quilljar
> regarding a method for providing what you and Ohmelads apparantly want: A
> cold, dark airplane with engines not running at the start of a simulation.
> That is easily accomplished by the method Quilljar suggested:
>
> 1. Set up your aircraft with engines not running.
> 2. Save that set up as a flight.
> 3. Set that flight as default.
>
> The next time you start the simulation program, it will start with the new
> default flight and you will have your cold, dark airplane with engines not
> running.
> Your default flight will remain the same unless you or someone else
> deliberately changes it. Thus, you will have the conditions you like each
> time you start your
> simulator.
> >
> > No! You get into an aircraft, and you go through the power up sequence,
> > start up the engines, and then lay in your course.
> >
> Good for you! I wish every pilot would get into their aircraft before they
> go through the power up sequence and lay in their course. Save a lot of
> needless bother.
> >
> > Now if I have 300 odd different aircraft, but always want to start up
the
> > game environment in a cold dark cockpit, that involves having to save a
> > different flight every time. Which is a lame solution.
> >
> Not to mention a rather lame pasttime. Never mind, if you want to fly 300
> different airplanes, that's your bliss. You can set up 300 flights with
> your desired conditions for each. Only one can be default, but it's as
easy
> to select another flight as it is to select another aircraft.
> >
> > So this is why Matthias Lieberecht wrote "Cold and Dark Cockpit Gauge".
> The
> > file, which is called "mlcadgau.zip" is available on
> http://library.avsim.net
> > and is really easy to install in your aircraft panels, no matter who
made
> > the aircraft/panel, whether the aircraft/panel is a jet, prop,
helicopter,
> > or whether it is freeware/shareware/payware.
> >
> Thanks for the file name. You remember, I admitted that it might come in
> handy.
> >
> > Once its installed, it stays installed, and I don't need to create loads
> of
> > flights for each aircraft/situation I might possibly want to fly. Just

> > install once in each panel.
> >
> Gosh, I wonder which would be easier, installing the "gauge" in 300
> different panels, or saving 300 different flights? The mind reels.
> >
> > Now I just put forward a piece of friendly advice, and made a comment
> about
> > a feature I think Microsoft should have put into Flight Simulator but
> didn't,
> > and you feel justified somehow in putting across a smartarse remark
> debunking
> > everything I've said and trying to make me look really ****ing stupid ?
> >
> No need to thank me. It was nothing, really.
> >
> > **** off.
> >
> Temper, temper. You mustn't get so upset. You might start thrashing
about
> and step on one of your nice shiny airplanes.
> >
> > Ohmelads - you can use the gauge I mentioned above. It works really
well,
> > and should give you what you need without mucking around too much.
> >
> > Really, the gauge provides something that Microsoft didn't when they
wrote
> > FS2002. I think there should be an option within the "Settings" ->
> "Realism"
> > menu to allow you to start off in a cold dark cockpit. That way you can
> go
> > through the startup routines of any aircraft as a real pilot would do.
> >
> Well, it sems I have to agree with you on another point. The game really
> isn't as real as it gets. It only gets as real as it gets for those who
land
> the kind of jobs most simmers lust after. If only flight simulation could
> guarantee such employment for each fledgling after three years simming
> (first officer aboard, say at least a 737, or top gun US Navy fighter
> pilot), we would hear far fewer of such complaints. When I was a lad, I
> received, for small change and a few Ovaltine labels, one of his highly
> sought after Decoder Badges and a membership card show the I was a member
in
> good standing in Captain Midnight's "Secret Squadron." I have to admit
that
> I was disappointed in the experiences derived from those treasures. The
> messages I decoded with the Decoder Badge, telling me to drink more
> Ovaltine, didn't seem worth the effort and the "Secret Squadron" wasn't
all
> that secret. I wanted to fly with my hero, but he never invited me and so
I
> decided that the badge and the squadron membership weren't "as real as it
> gets," 'though not precisely in those terms. I don't remember discarding
> them, but neither do I know where the hell they went. My point is just
> this: I feel your pain.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Graeme
> >
>
> Dear Graeme,
>
> The "gauge" may be a keen solution for you and for many others. It might
> also suit me, but Quilljar's solution is by far the best answer to
Ohmelads
> questions:
>
> He asked: "Is it possible to start a simulation without the engines
running?
>
> The answer is clearly: Yes.
>
> He also asked: "Is there something you can click in the settings to get
this
> to happen?"
>
> The answer is: A qualified yes. First, save a flight with engines not
> running and then "set" that flight as your default flight.
>
> That answers Ohmelads questions. Of course, there are other solutions
that
> might suit him better, including the "gauge," but he didn't ask for other
> solutions. He asked for a way "to start a simulation without the engines
> running." You do not say that the "gauge" will do that. I would expect
that
> the "gauge" will only work after start up and that is not the same as
> starting a simulation without the engines running.
>
> Why, you could even do both. You could start up with dead engines, start
> the engines and then shut 'em down with the gauge! Wheeeeee!!
>
> Kalijaa
>
>
>

[kallijaa]

"Angus Lepper" > wrote in message
...
> Em. Quick question. The default flight thing sounds easier to me, but say
> if I:
>
> Get the default flight (Cessna Meigs, active runway etc)
> And shut down the engines, and save that as the default,
>
> I then set up a flight with say, the MelJet 777 at KORD with my own
weather
> etc, will the engines not start up with the flight? Or will I get the
wanted
> effect of a cold aircraft?
>
> Angus

I've had it work both ways and so I don't presume any condition prior to
saving a flight (well, actually I have done and regretted later when I had
to do it over). When you select a different aircraft, you should set
everything related to that aircraft to your standards before saving. In
other words, make sure the engines are shut down before you save your new
flight if you want them DOA. Since your probably going to go through a set
up before saving anyway, killing the engines would just be a step in the
process. Don't you just love checklists? I'm really not all that fond of
them, unless they're nicely leather-bound.

Do you think that we should pray for Microsoft to include a realism setting
that requires a full walk-around inspection before climbing into the
cockpit? They could have hidden airframe discrepancies that a pilot would
have to discover before flying, else be penalized with a greatly increased
risk of crashing and burning. After that, we could ask for a virtual air
terminal interior complete with all amenities, including a lounge where the
crew could have a few belts before going to work (of course we shouldn't
want to overdo that).

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Michael Nouak" > wrote in message
...
>
> J Kelley might find the gauge you mentioned useful, I don't. No offense,
if
> you are the author! I just don't feel like installing it into 74 panels
for
> no gain.
>
> HTH,
>
> Mike
>

I'm pleased that you included the qualifier "might." But who knows, I
"might" want to shutdown in an emergency and use it as a crutch.
....
....
....
Nah, that wouldn't be "as real as it gets."

Kelley