Re: Flight Simulator now being used by flight instructors

[Paul Riley]

"Ed Forsythe" > wrote in message
...
> Nancy,
> Try explaining how *easy* it is to an eminently qualified student who has
> washed out of the USAF or USN flight training programs.
> --
> Happy Flying,
> Ed

Hi Ed,

You can add US Army to that as well. Like you, I was also introduced to
"sims" (I use the term loosely <G>) via the Link Trainer--Blue Canoe?? <G>--
back in the 50s. Army got some old ones from the USAF--(thanks, I think) <G>

I hated those things, but they sure did help with procedural items. No way
could you say they taught you to fly--ANYTHING.

Paul

[Chris Norris]

<snip>
>Through simming, you could gain some useful IFR procedural training prior to
>flight, but don't kid yourself that it would be worth the crippling effect
>it will have with respect to primary flight training.
>
>Simming can be a lot of fun and it is an engrossing hobby. It can provide
>simulated flight experience to those who cannot participate in the real
>thing, but for non-flyers it can hinder or even destroy any chances they
>might have at success in subsequent flying training. If you want to learn
>to fly in the real world, put the toy away.
<snip>

Well, I have been simming with MS-FS since the 'green sticks' version
- and two years ago I stepped into the cockpit of a Cessna to begin
some flying lessons for real.

With all those simming hours clocked up I impressed the instructor
with my instant ability able to read the gauges and understand the
information they presented. We had a pretty good discussion in ground
school and he even asked if I had taken lessons before as I seemed to
have the physics and basic principles taken care of.

I just don't agree with your 'crippling effect' comment as I had no
problems flying the Cessna for real and using peripheral vision for
situation awareness (something that's obviously missing when you're
staring at a computer monitor)

So although simming may or may not teach the physical aspects and
feeling of flying it sure does give you a headstart on a lot of the
topics.

At the end of the day it's a simulation, my chair don't move and my
stick don't give me feedback but I am obviously learning from it (and
enjoying it)

[kallijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
>
> <snip>
> >Through simming, you could gain some useful IFR procedural training prior
to
> >flight, but don't kid yourself that it would be worth the crippling
effect
> >it will have with respect to primary flight training.
> >
> >Simming can be a lot of fun and it is an engrossing hobby. It can
provide
> >simulated flight experience to those who cannot participate in the real
> >thing, but for non-flyers it can hinder or even destroy any chances they
> >might have at success in subsequent flying training. If you want to
learn
> >to fly in the real world, put the toy away.
> <snip>
>
> Well, I have been simming with MS-FS since the 'green sticks' version
> - and two years ago I stepped into the cockpit of a Cessna to begin
> some flying lessons for real.
>
> With all those simming hours clocked up I impressed the instructor
> with my instant ability able to read the gauges and understand the
> information they presented. We had a pretty good discussion in ground
> school and he even asked if I had taken lessons before as I seemed to
> have the physics and basic principles taken care of.
>
At most private flying schools, most instructors will be sales oriented and
are apt to tickle your ear. They are not likely to chase you away by
telling you that your experience with flight simulation was a mistake that
may cause serious problems. The drill is to sign you up, get your money and
deal with your problems, in that order. That's the business they're in.

> I just don't agree with your 'crippling effect' comment as I had no
> problems flying the Cessna for real and using peripheral vision for
> situation awareness (something that's obviously missing when you're
> staring at a computer monitor)
>
Peripheral vision? If you had persistently relied upon peripheral vision
for situation awareness at a military flying school you would have been a
candidate for elimination. You would have been taught to "keep your head
out of the cockpit and on a swivel." In other words, during contact flight,
your instructor would want to see your head up and in constant motion,
traversing a very wide angle . You would be taught to cross check
instruments quickly and return to the routine of turning your head so that
you could see directly your situation. Good peripheral vision would be a
requirement for your acceptance in the program, but you would not make the
grade relying on it as you suggest.

> So although simming may or may not teach the physical aspects and
> feeling of flying it sure does give you a headstart on a lot of the
> topics.
>
Reading a few good books will do that, without conditioning you to
constantly face front.

> At the end of the day it's a simulation, my chair don't move and my
> stick don't give me feedback but I am obviously learning from it (and
> enjoying it)

Happy landings.

[Dashii]

"kallijaa" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Chris Norris" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > <snip>
> > >Through simming, you could gain some useful IFR procedural training
prior
> to
> > >flight, but don't kid yourself that it would be worth the crippling
> effect
> > >it will have with respect to primary flight training.
> > >
> > >Simming can be a lot of fun and it is an engrossing hobby. It can
> provide
> > >simulated flight experience to those who cannot participate in the real
> > >thing, but for non-flyers it can hinder or even destroy any chances
they
> > >might have at success in subsequent flying training. If you want to
> learn
> > >to fly in the real world, put the toy away.
> > <snip>
> >
> > Well, I have been simming with MS-FS since the 'green sticks' version
> > - and two years ago I stepped into the cockpit of a Cessna to begin
> > some flying lessons for real.
> >
> > With all those simming hours clocked up I impressed the instructor
> > with my instant ability able to read the gauges and understand the
> > information they presented. We had a pretty good discussion in ground
> > school and he even asked if I had taken lessons before as I seemed to
> > have the physics and basic principles taken care of.
> >
> At most private flying schools, most instructors will be sales oriented
and
> are apt to tickle your ear. They are not likely to chase you away by
> telling you that your experience with flight simulation was a mistake that
> may cause serious problems. The drill is to sign you up, get your money
and
> deal with your problems, in that order. That's the business they're in.
>
> > I just don't agree with your 'crippling effect' comment as I had no
> > problems flying the Cessna for real and using peripheral vision for
> > situation awareness (something that's obviously missing when you're
> > staring at a computer monitor)
> >
> Peripheral vision? If you had persistently relied upon peripheral vision
> for situation awareness at a military flying school you would have been a
> candidate for elimination. You would have been taught to "keep your head
> out of the cockpit and on a swivel." In other words, during contact
flight,
> your instructor would want to see your head up and in constant motion,
> traversing a very wide angle . You would be taught to cross check
> instruments quickly and return to the routine of turning your head so that
> you could see directly your situation. Good peripheral vision would be a
> requirement for your acceptance in the program, but you would not make the
> grade relying on it as you suggest.

Just like I do in the sim! <G>

Dashii

[John Clonts]

S Herman > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "kallijaa" > wrote:
> >
> > Simming can be a lot of fun and it is an engrossing hobby. It can
provide
> > simulated flight experience to those who cannot participate in the real
> > thing, but for non-flyers it can hinder or even destroy any chances they
> > might have at success in subsequent flying training. If you want to
learn
> > to fly in the real world, put the toy away.
> >
> > Kalijaa
>
> I don't know that it will permanently damage anyone, BUT - I am a new
> student (~12 hours). My instructor told me to stop using the flight sim
> when I mentioned i had been a fan of them for years. i dont have the
> time now any way!
>
> Since the panel ususally fills most of the screen on the sim, your main
> clues are the instruments. So, i will agree that it appears that my
> penchant for observing the instruments is not helping me learn the
> visual and physical clues for performing the basic manuevers. Most of
> the manuevers for the PTS seem to be much harder to execute by
> instrument!
>
> And of course, i have to add that my real flying has inmproved my flight
> simming greatly! :-) just kidding!

Same here. My experience with flight simulators around 1983 was a major
factor in deciding to get my PPL. I was rarely able to land the sim
successfully until after I learned to land the real plane!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

[kallijaa]

"Dashii" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Chris Norris" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > >Through simming, you could gain some useful IFR procedural training
> prior
> > to
> > > >flight, but don't kid yourself that it would be worth the crippling
> > effect
> > > >it will have with respect to primary flight training.
> > > >
> > > >Simming can be a lot of fun and it is an engrossing hobby. It can
> > provide
> > > >simulated flight experience to those who cannot participate in the
real
> > > >thing, but for non-flyers it can hinder or even destroy any chances
> they
> > > >might have at success in subsequent flying training. If you want to
> > learn
> > > >to fly in the real world, put the toy away.
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Well, I have been simming with MS-FS since the 'green sticks' version
> > > - and two years ago I stepped into the cockpit of a Cessna to begin
> > > some flying lessons for real.
> > >
> > > With all those simming hours clocked up I impressed the instructor
> > > with my instant ability able to read the gauges and understand the
> > > information they presented. We had a pretty good discussion in ground
> > > school and he even asked if I had taken lessons before as I seemed to
> > > have the physics and basic principles taken care of.
> > >
> > At most private flying schools, most instructors will be sales oriented
> and
> > are apt to tickle your ear. They are not likely to chase you away by
> > telling you that your experience with flight simulation was a mistake
that
> > may cause serious problems. The drill is to sign you up, get your money
> and
> > deal with your problems, in that order. That's the business they're in.
> >
> > > I just don't agree with your 'crippling effect' comment as I had no
> > > problems flying the Cessna for real and using peripheral vision for
> > > situation awareness (something that's obviously missing when you're
> > > staring at a computer monitor)
> > >
> > Peripheral vision? If you had persistently relied upon peripheral
vision
> > for situation awareness at a military flying school you would have been
a
> > candidate for elimination. You would have been taught to "keep your
head
> > out of the cockpit and on a swivel." In other words, during contact
> flight,
> > your instructor would want to see your head up and in constant motion,
> > traversing a very wide angle . You would be taught to cross check
> > instruments quickly and return to the routine of turning your head so
that
> > you could see directly your situation. Good peripheral vision would be
a
> > requirement for your acceptance in the program, but you would not make
the
> > grade relying on it as you suggest.
>
> Just like I do in the sim! <G>
>
> Dashii
>
Oh, really? I recall you describing how you use "outside views." How do
you access those outside views and where are your eyes focused during that
process? Let me guess: You switch to outside view using your keyboard or a
switch on your flight controls. Am I getting warm? Then you look at those
outside views on the same display used to view the instrument panel and the
slim strip of the sim world atop. Warmer?

By that process you are training your head to habitually remain stationary
and your eyes to look forward at all times. Those are the kind of habits
that hinder progress in flight training.

Kalijaa

[flightsimcfi]

look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy.

Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A
flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some
of this information.

I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice
lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that
do this end up saving time and money in the real plane.

The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But
neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a
King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing
more, nothing less.

I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when
growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I
learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I
quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't,
thanks to my CFI.

For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try
seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming.

For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in
the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode
so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a
nice way to view the scenery.

Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to
raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit.

For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits.....
you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but
they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn
bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits
when they read magazines about flying.

The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop
learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and
behaviors.

I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder
pedals.

[Dashii]

From: "kallijaa" >
Subject: Re: Flight Simulator now being used by flight instructors
Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:54 PM


"Dashii" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ed Forsythe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Kallijaa,
> > > I suspect that you were trolling and you painted yourself into a
corner
> ;)
> > > Now you are desperately attempting to extricate yourself. Don't let
the
> > > facts confuse you - hang in there!
> > > --
> > > Happy Flying,
> > > Ed
> >
> > I'm quite comfortable in my corner, your suspicions not withstanding.
> >
> > If you read my first post to this thread, you will find that I fully
> > acknowledged the contributions of flight simulators since the beginning
of
> > instrument flying. Your experience with Link Trainers might be similar
to
> > mine and my true appreciation of them might agree with yours. The
Links
> > were roundly hated, but grudgingly used by flying students to learn and
> > practice IFR procedures. Their main asset was the associated plotting
> > tables that enabled them to fly virtual Loop and Adcock (Low Frequency)
> > radio ranges while being monitored by a flight instructor. The rocking
> and
> > tilting motions produced by the Link's pneumatic systems were laughable
> and
> > the Trainers had nothing to do with contact flying. Students pilots
> weren't
> > allowed to come near the dreadful little crates until they were found to
> be
> > sufficiently proficient in the air.
> >
> > The idea that a fledgling will profit from simulation prior to gaining
> such
> > proficiency is absurd. Instead, it will have the opposite effect.
> Simmers
> > are training themselves to do precisely what they shouldn't when flying
an
> > airplane under contact conditions. One of the most difficult habits to
> > break in a new student is the natural tendency to stare straight ahead
> > and/or at the instrument panel. Instructors must teach students to keep
> > their heads "out of the cockpit and on a swivel," in order to know where
> > they are, to appreciate in full the attitude of their aircraft and to
keep
> > clear of danger in the form of other aircraft and obstructions.
>
> Jeez, I thought that I had good situational awareness (SA) from "flying"
the
> sims because visibility is so poor that you must use your outside views.
Try
> flying a combat sim and see how quickly you are shot down if you don't
have
> good SA.
>
> Dashii
>
>>How well you plead my cause. While playing your combat game, you access
>>outside views with your fingers while staring straight ahead. In the air,
>>it doesn't work that-a-way.

You are out of touch with modern flight simming.

A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down views.

There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your
head.

Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes, mine
is a Precision Flight Control system.

I also use GoFlight instruments.

Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding,
mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.

There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors,
cyclists, etc.

Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from someone
that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.

Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
certificate.

I may and then again I may not.

Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! <G>

Dashii

[kallijaa]

"flightsimcfi" > wrote in message
news:gLimb.19722$Fm2.9676@attbi_s04...
>
> look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy.
>
> Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A
> flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some
> of this information.
>
> I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice
> lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that
> do this end up saving time and money in the real plane.
>
> The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But
> neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a
> King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing
> more, nothing less.
>
> I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when
> growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I
> learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I
> quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't,
> thanks to my CFI.
>
> For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try
> seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming.
>
> For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in
> the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode
> so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a
> nice way to view the scenery.
>
> Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to
> raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit.
>
> For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits.....
> you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but
> they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn
> bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits
> when they read magazines about flying.
>
> The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop
> learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and
> behaviors.
>
> I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder
> pedals.

I agree in some parts, disagree in others. There's room for that. As a
CFI, you have to deal with the current pool of flying students as they
evolve. When they become CFIs the process will be complete. Good or bad?

[kallijaa]

"Dashii" > wrote in message
...
>
> From: "kallijaa" >
> Subject: Re: Flight Simulator now being used by flight instructors
> Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:54 PM
>
>
> "Dashii" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Ed Forsythe" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Kallijaa,
> > > > I suspect that you were trolling and you painted yourself into a
> corner
> > ;)
> > > > Now you are desperately attempting to extricate yourself. Don't let
> the
> > > > facts confuse you - hang in there!
> > > > --
> > > > Happy Flying,
> > > > Ed
> > >
> > > I'm quite comfortable in my corner, your suspicions not withstanding.
> > >
> > > If you read my first post to this thread, you will find that I fully
> > > acknowledged the contributions of flight simulators since the
beginning
> of
> > > instrument flying. Your experience with Link Trainers might be similar
> to
> > > mine and my true appreciation of them might agree with yours. The
> Links
> > > were roundly hated, but grudgingly used by flying students to learn
and
> > > practice IFR procedures. Their main asset was the associated plotting
> > > tables that enabled them to fly virtual Loop and Adcock (Low
Frequency)
> > > radio ranges while being monitored by a flight instructor. The
rocking
> > and
> > > tilting motions produced by the Link's pneumatic systems were
laughable
> > and
> > > the Trainers had nothing to do with contact flying. Students pilots
> > weren't
> > > allowed to come near the dreadful little crates until they were found
to
> > be
> > > sufficiently proficient in the air.
> > >
> > > The idea that a fledgling will profit from simulation prior to gaining
> > such
> > > proficiency is absurd. Instead, it will have the opposite effect.
> > Simmers
> > > are training themselves to do precisely what they shouldn't when
flying
> an
> > > airplane under contact conditions. One of the most difficult habits
to
> > > break in a new student is the natural tendency to stare straight ahead
> > > and/or at the instrument panel. Instructors must teach students to
keep
> > > their heads "out of the cockpit and on a swivel," in order to know
where
> > > they are, to appreciate in full the attitude of their aircraft and to
> keep
> > > clear of danger in the form of other aircraft and obstructions.
> >
> > Jeez, I thought that I had good situational awareness (SA) from "flying"
> the
> > sims because visibility is so poor that you must use your outside views.
> Try
> > flying a combat sim and see how quickly you are shot down if you don't
> have
> > good SA.
> >
> > Dashii
> >
> >>How well you plead my cause. While playing your combat game, you access
> >>outside views with your fingers while staring straight ahead. In the
air,
> >>it doesn't work that-a-way.
>
> You are out of touch with modern flight simming.
>
Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a
2Ghz cpu, so maybe.

> A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
> left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
views.
>
A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.

> There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your
> head.
>
I also like the germ of that idea

> Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes,
mine
> is a Precision Flight Control system.
>
> I also use GoFlight instruments.
>
How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.

> Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding,
> mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.
>
> There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors,
> cyclists, etc.
>
Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are
unconcerned with flight safety.

> Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from
someone
> that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.
>
Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight
simulators, but lack omniscience.

> Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
> certificate.
>
Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less
expensive and perhaps your only option.

> I may and then again I may not.
>
Milton Friedman would be proud.

> Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! <G>
>
> Dashii
>
Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!.

[Dashii]

"kallijaa" > wrote in message
...
> > You are out of touch with modern flight simming.
> >
> Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a
> 2Ghz cpu, so maybe.
>
> > A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
> > left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
> views.
> >
> A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.

You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround
"vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will
be enjoying it.

> > There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move
your
> > head.
> >
> I also like the germ of that idea

Good! That's a start.

> > Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes,
> mine
> > is a Precision Flight Control system.
> >
> > I also use GoFlight instruments.
> >
> How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.

Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.


> > Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding,
> > mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.
> >
> > There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors,
> > cyclists, etc.
> >
> Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are
> unconcerned with flight safety.

I don't approach any hobby being "unconcerned with" safety. I will be as
safe in my aviation hobby as I am in my other hobbies.

> > Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from
> someone
> > that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.

> Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight
> simulators, but lack omniscience.

But you don't?

> > Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
> > certificate.

> Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less
> expensive and perhaps your only option.

Is that how you got your's? Paid someone to take the exams for you?

> > I may and then again I may not.
> >
> Milton Friedman would be proud.

Never did like that guy.

> > Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! <G>
> >
> > Dashii
> >
> Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!.

Hang in there, your are bound to get better.

Dashii

[Ed Forsythe]

I agree completely with all except "yoke" <bg>. I hate yokes, love sticks
but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s
--
Happy Flying,
Ed
"flightsimcfi" > wrote in message
news:gLimb.19722$Fm2.9676@attbi_s04...
>
> look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy.
>
> Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A
> flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some
> of this information.
>
> I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice
> lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that
> do this end up saving time and money in the real plane.
>
> The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But
> neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a
> King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing
> more, nothing less.
>
> I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when
> growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I
> learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I
> quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't,
> thanks to my CFI.
>
> For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try
> seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming.
>
> For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in
> the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode
> so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a
> nice way to view the scenery.
>
> Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to
> raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit.
>
> For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits.....
> you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but
> they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn
> bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits
> when they read magazines about flying.
>
> The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop
> learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and
> behaviors.
>
> I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder
> pedals.

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in
:


> Oh, really? I recall you describing how you use "outside views." How
> do you access those outside views and where are your eyes focused
> during that process? Let me guess: You switch to outside view using
> your keyboard or a switch on your flight controls. Am I getting warm?
> Then you look at those outside views on the same display used to view
> the instrument panel and the slim strip of the sim world atop.
> Warmer?
>
> By that process you are training your head to habitually remain
> stationary and your eyes to look forward at all times. Those are the
> kind of habits that hinder progress in flight training.
>
> Kalijaa


Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue that
instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they lost
this ability through simming?

Those of us who transition between auto transmission cars, standard
trucks, and motorcycles on a routine basis would call you a moron. So would
the helo pilots who later obtained a fixed-wing rating. These are far more
involved, and much more ingrained as habits, than anything you might
develop in a sim. Moreover, flight instructors are used to dealing with
people that have no concept of aerodynamics, instrumentation, or thinking
in three dimensions, and flight schooling is geared around that, very
specifically. Arguing that 'changing views' is looked upon as a habit that
needs to be broken is unbelieveably ignorant.


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[kallijaa]

"Dashii" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > You are out of touch with modern flight simming.
> > >
> > Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport
a
> > 2Ghz cpu, so maybe.
> >
> > > A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
> > > left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
> > views.
> > >
> > A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.
>
> You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround
> "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will
> be enjoying it.
>
You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the
price of one of those.

> > > There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move
> your
> > > head.
> > >
> > I also like the germ of that idea
>
> Good! That's a start.
>
> > > Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes,
> > mine
> > > is a Precision Flight Control system.
> > >
> > > I also use GoFlight instruments.
> > >
> > How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.
>
> Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.
>
I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The
tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys.
>
> > > Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang
gliding,
> > > mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.
> > >
> > > There are professional pilots just like there are professional
sailors,
> > > cyclists, etc.
> > >
> > Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are
> > unconcerned with flight safety.
>
> I don't approach any hobby being "unconcerned with" safety. I will be as
> safe in my aviation hobby as I am in my other hobbies.
>
Sure you will.

> > > Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from
> > someone
> > > that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.
>
> > Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight
> > simulators, but lack omniscience.
>
> But you don't?
>
Oh, but I do. The trick is avoiding the need. Start by discovering your
own limitations.

> > > Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
> > > certificate.
>
> > Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less
> > expensive and perhaps your only option.
>
> Is that how you got your's? Paid someone to take the exams for you?
>
No, but that's one of the ways "Anyone with several thousand dollars to
spend" might wind up with a certificate. Counterfeits might be cheaper, but
they amount to the same thing. There are always niches for those who rely
on purchasing power

> > > I may and then again I may not.
> > >
> > Milton Friedman would be proud.
>
> Never did like that guy.
>
Somehow, that news fails to disquite me.

> > > Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! <G>
> > >
> > > Dashii
> > >
> > Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!.
>
> Hang in there, your are bound to get better.
>

Thank you, that's is a consummation devoutly to be wished. Now I have to
think of something nice to say about you.


i uh

i can't seem to . . . uh . to . .


Curses, foiled again!!!

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 6...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
>
> > Oh, really? I recall you describing how you use "outside views." How
> > do you access those outside views and where are your eyes focused
> > during that process? Let me guess: You switch to outside view using
> > your keyboard or a switch on your flight controls. Am I getting warm?
> > Then you look at those outside views on the same display used to view
> > the instrument panel and the slim strip of the sim world atop.
> > Warmer?
> >
> > By that process you are training your head to habitually remain
> > stationary and your eyes to look forward at all times. Those are the
> > kind of habits that hinder progress in flight training.
> >
> > Kalijaa
>
>
> Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue that
> instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they lost
> this ability through simming?
>
Instructors have to train students to turn their heads because they have a
natural tendency to look forward and at the insturment panel. The
difficulty varies with individuals, but it is a common condition. Those who
have developed, re-enforced and associated the habit with flying, will have
the most difficulty.

> Those of us who transition between auto transmission cars, standard
> trucks, and motorcycles on a routine basis would call you a moron. So
would
> the helo pilots who later obtained a fixed-wing rating. These are far more
> involved, and much more ingrained as habits, than anything you might
> develop in a sim. Moreover, flight instructors are used to dealing with
> people that have no concept of aerodynamics, instrumentation, or thinking
> in three dimensions, and flight schooling is geared around that, very
> specifically. Arguing that 'changing views' is looked upon as a habit that
> needs to be broken is unbelieveably ignorant.
>
There's a lot more to it than changing of views. The practice of facing
forward, limiting eye scan to a narrow range and associating that condition
with the controling of an aircraft will train a non-flyer to continue that
practice in the air. The habit can be overcome in most if not all cases,
but it does require extra time and effort. That can easily be the
difference between success and failure.

>
> - Al.
>

[Quilljar]

Ed Forsythe wrote:
> I agree completely with all except "yoke" <bg>. I hate yokes, love
> sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s


I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn a
flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck!



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003

[Dudley Henriques]

"Quilljar" > wrote in message
...
> Ed Forsythe wrote:
> > I agree completely with all except "yoke" <bg>. I hate yokes, love
> > sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s
>
>
> I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn a
> flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck!


I ferried a P38L once that you might have enjoyed flying :-)))

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

[Dashii]

"kallijaa" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dashii" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > You are out of touch with modern flight simming.
> > > >
> > > Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't
sport
> a
> > > 2Ghz cpu, so maybe.
> > >
> > > > A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
> > > > left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
> > > views.
> > > >
> > > A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.
> >
> > You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as
surround
> > "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers
will
> > be enjoying it.
> >
> You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the
> price of one of those.
>
> > > > There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move
> > your
> > > > head.
> > > >
> > > I also like the germ of that idea
> >
> > Good! That's a start.
> >
> > > > Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder
pedals/brakes,
> > > mine
> > > > is a Precision Flight Control system.
> > > >
> > > > I also use GoFlight instruments.
> > > >
> > > How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.
> >
> > Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.
> >
> I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The
> tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys.

Was I "gush"ing? Heh, well my gushing has turned into flushing, I'm done
with you now.

*PLONK

Dashii

[kallijaa]

"Dashii" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Dashii" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "kallijaa" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > > You are out of touch with modern flight simming.
> > > > >
> > > > Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't
> sport
> > a
> > > > 2Ghz cpu, so maybe.
> > > >
> > > > > A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display
the
> > > > > left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back,
up/down
> > > > views.
> > > > >
> > > > A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.
> > >
> > > You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as
> surround
> > > "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers
> will
> > > be enjoying it.
> > >
> > You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is
the
> > price of one of those.
> >
> > > > > There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you
move
> > > your
> > > > > head.
> > > > >
> > > > I also like the germ of that idea
> > >
> > > Good! That's a start.
> > >
> > > > > Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder
> pedals/brakes,
> > > > mine
> > > > > is a Precision Flight Control system.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also use GoFlight instruments.
> > > > >
> > > > How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.
> > >
> > > Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.
> > >
> > I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth?
The
> > tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys.
>
> Was I "gush"ing? Heh, well my gushing has turned into flushing, I'm done
> with you now.
>
> *PLONK
>
> Dashii
>


Gee, I'm sure gonna miss that guy.

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> . 6...

>> Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue
>> that
>> instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they
>> lost this ability through simming?
>>
> Instructors have to train students to turn their heads because they
> have a natural tendency to look forward and at the insturment panel.
> The difficulty varies with individuals, but it is a common condition.
> Those who have developed, re-enforced and associated the habit with
> flying, will have the most difficulty.

Very good, Skippy, you're talking about a routine part of flight
instruction, just like using one hand on the yoke and maintaining proper
mixture. But that wasn't the issue we were discussing now, was it? I
believe we were talking about instructors having a significant amount of
difficulty in un-training someone used to a computer sim from pressing
buttons to look around.


> There's a lot more to it than changing of views. The practice of
> facing forward, limiting eye scan to a narrow range and associating
> that condition with the controling of an aircraft will train a
> non-flyer to continue that practice in the air. The habit can be
> overcome in most if not all cases, but it does require extra time and
> effort. That can easily be the difference between success and
> failure.

Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly have a
reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it out. Because
I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.

CFIs have numerous things they have to train students to do, many of
them that the student is not used to doing. This is nothing unusual. You're
going to have to produce a lot more than reiterating basics of instruction
to support your contention that simming, as you indicated very specifically
above, can and does lead to flight school failure, or even (and I'm being
extremely generous here) a noticeably extended amount of time in reaching
certification.

Put your money where your mouth is, Skippy. We're waiting.



- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 7...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > . 6...
>
> >> Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue
> >> that
> >> instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they
> >> lost this ability through simming?
> >>
> > Instructors have to train students to turn their heads because they
> > have a natural tendency to look forward and at the insturment panel.
> > The difficulty varies with individuals, but it is a common condition.
> > Those who have developed, re-enforced and associated the habit with
> > flying, will have the most difficulty.
>
> Very good, Skippy, you're talking about a routine part of flight
> instruction, just like using one hand on the yoke and maintaining proper
> mixture. But that wasn't the issue we were discussing now, was it? I
> believe we were talking about instructors having a significant amount of
> difficulty in un-training someone used to a computer sim from pressing
> buttons to look around.
>
You're right, we weren't talking about, " one hand on the yoke and
maintaining proper mixture," but we can talk about that if you please. But
first, why not stick to the issue?

As to what we were talking about prior to your appearance, that can be
found at the beginning of the thread. What you were initially talking about
when you came on line, was a request for a break. That request is granted.
You may have your break at you leasure and for any purpose you choose. You
don' need my permission and I don't require the details.

Next, you asked: "Are you honestly trying to argue that instructors have to
train somebody to turn their heads because they lost this ability through
simming?" You already have that answer. A qualified yes.

>
> > There's a lot more to it than changing of views. The practice of
> > facing forward, limiting eye scan to a narrow range and associating
> > that condition with the controling of an aircraft will train a
> > non-flyer to continue that practice in the air. The habit can be
> > overcome in most if not all cases, but it does require extra time and
> > effort. That can easily be the difference between success and
> > failure.
>
> Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly have a
> reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it out.
Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.
>
That is not an arguement. However, it does describes your condition if you
think that I'm going to "trot out" anything to persuade the likes of you.

> CFIs have numerous things they have to train students to do, many of
> them that the student is not used to doing. This is nothing unusual.
You're
> going to have to produce a lot more than reiterating basics of instruction
> to support your contention that simming, as you indicated very
specifically
> above, can and does lead to flight school failure, or even (and I'm being
> extremely generous here) a noticeably extended amount of time in reaching
> certification.
>
> Put your money where your mouth is, Skippy. We're waiting.
>
Good. Hang by your thumbs.
>
>
> - Al.
>

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:46:45 GMT, Al Denelsbeck > wrote:
>
> >"kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
> >
> >>
> >> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> >> . 6...
> >
> >>> Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue
> >>> that
> >>> instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they
> >>> lost this ability through simming?
> >>>
> >> Instructors have to train students to turn their heads because they
> >> have a natural tendency to look forward and at the insturment panel.
> >> The difficulty varies with individuals, but it is a common condition.
> >> Those who have developed, re-enforced and associated the habit with
> >> flying, will have the most difficulty.
> >
> > Very good, Skippy, you're talking about a routine part of flight
> >instruction, just like using one hand on the yoke and maintaining proper
> >mixture. But that wasn't the issue we were discussing now, was it? I
> >believe we were talking about instructors having a significant amount of
> >difficulty in un-training someone used to a computer sim from pressing
> >buttons to look around.
> >
> >
> >> There's a lot more to it than changing of views. The practice of
> >> facing forward, limiting eye scan to a narrow range and associating
> >> that condition with the controling of an aircraft will train a
> >> non-flyer to continue that practice in the air. The habit can be
> >> overcome in most if not all cases, but it does require extra time and
> >> effort. That can easily be the difference between success and
> >> failure.
> >
> > Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly have a
> >reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it out.
Because
> >I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.
> >
> > CFIs have numerous things they have to train students to do, many of
> >them that the student is not used to doing. This is nothing unusual.
You're
> >going to have to produce a lot more than reiterating basics of
instruction
> >to support your contention that simming, as you indicated very
specifically
> >above, can and does lead to flight school failure, or even (and I'm being
> >extremely generous here) a noticeably extended amount of time in reaching
> >certification.
> >
> > Put your money where your mouth is, Skippy. We're waiting.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Al.
>
>
> Wow, get a load of Mr. Bigshot ! All wound up in a little ball of
machismo. Anyone ever tell you to get
> over yourself? It's only a flight simulator, Squirt, so try and get past
it. We're waiting.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Howdy! And welcome aboard.

Kalijaa

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> . 7...

>> Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly have a
>> reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it out.
> Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.
>>
> That is not an arguement. However, it does describes your condition
> if you think that I'm going to "trot out" anything to persuade the
> likes of you.


Yep. That's about what I expected. Suddenly the supreme confidence of
telling everyone exactly how it is fades and disappears when it comes down
to offering any proof at all for your claims, to hide behind the
outstanding statement of "I don't haven to prove anything to anybody, so
there!"

Welcome to Usenet, Skippy. You have no authority here, either. "Put
up or shut up" is the order of the day.


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Al Denelsbeck]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in
:


> Wow, get a load of Mr. Bigshot ! All wound up in a little ball of
> machismo. Anyone ever tell you to get over yourself? It's only a
> flight simulator, Squirt, so try and get past it. We're waiting.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD


Ah, look, I got a personal reply from SpeedByrd, R.A.S.'s resident
for emotional outbursts and tantrums! How long can I drag you along in a
thread where you continue to post spittle-spraying rants that demonstrate
your intelligence and maturity?

I should probably thank you. The thread regarding the fake FS
download a few months back had some of my friends in tears, they were
laughing so hard. Went on for days. Anyone with just a smidgen of awareness
would have seen the warning signs that something wasn't kosher - you, my
friend, just kept plugging away without a single intelligent thought
occurring to you (like even trying to find the site you were harping
about). You even sent it to Microsoft's attention for piracy! Priceless!

So I certainly value your input, and look forward to many more posts
in the thread. Fire away!


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 8...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > . 7...
>
> >> Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly have a
> >> reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it out.
> > Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.
> >>
> > That is not an arguement. However, it does describes your condition
> > if you think that I'm going to "trot out" anything to persuade the
> > likes of you.
>
>
> Yep. That's about what I expected. Suddenly the supreme confidence of
> telling everyone exactly how it is fades and disappears when it comes down
> to offering any proof at all for your claims, to hide behind the
> outstanding statement of "I don't haven to prove anything to anybody, so
> there!"
>
> Welcome to Usenet, Skippy. You have no authority here, either. "Put
> up or shut up" is the order of the day.
>
>
> - Al.
>
Thanks for the enlightening input Al. I expected something of the sort
earlier, but better late than never. If you hadn't showed up, someone would
have been forced to invent you.

Maybe someone did.

Kalijaa

[Dashii]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 8...
> "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in
> :
>
>
> > Wow, get a load of Mr. Bigshot ! All wound up in a little ball of
> > machismo. Anyone ever tell you to get over yourself? It's only a
> > flight simulator, Squirt, so try and get past it. We're waiting.
> >
> > SpeedByrd PhD
>
>
> Ah, look, I got a personal reply from SpeedByrd, R.A.S.'s resident
> for emotional outbursts and tantrums! How long can I drag you along in a
> thread where you continue to post spittle-spraying rants that demonstrate
> your intelligence and maturity?
>
> I should probably thank you. The thread regarding the fake FS
> download a few months back had some of my friends in tears, they were
> laughing so hard. Went on for days. Anyone with just a smidgen of
awareness
> would have seen the warning signs that something wasn't kosher - you, my
> friend, just kept plugging away without a single intelligent thought
> occurring to you (like even trying to find the site you were harping
> about). You even sent it to Microsoft's attention for piracy! Priceless!
>
> So I certainly value your input, and look forward to many more posts
> in the thread. Fire away!

Great one Al, ****Byrd is truely a mental midget! LOL

Dashii

[DwightD]

On 26 Oct 2003 18:34:14 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
wrote:

>What's a phony foreigner like you know about. Douche bag!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Redneck asshole! No wonder the world hates us with closed minded
inbreeds like you!

[DwightD]

On 26 Oct 2003 20:45:09 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
wrote:

>what would you know about it, dipwad?
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

We know you are a 50+ fat old man who sweeps the floors at a
university. The closest you have ever been to sex is with your hand
and the neighbors dog.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:59:46 -0500, N9NWO > wrote:


>X-Plane has been certified for IFR and commercial
>training. It is the only one that has.

Nnnnnk, sorry, thanks for playing. The Fly-It! helicopter simulator is
certificated as a Flight Simulator Device ("better" than an FTD BTW),
AND ALSO for primary VFR training (up to 7 hours toward the private
pilot ticket). It is based on FS2002.

I believe this platform is quite a bit less $ than the one that's based
on X-Plane, and it is also the first to be certificated to log time on
toward the Newbie Season Pass 8^).

Fly-It! also does a fixed wing sim that is FAA-approved as an FSD.

http://www.flyit.com/index.html

Dave Blevins
Newbie Season Pass Holder

[Chris Norris]

>Peripheral vision? If you had persistently relied upon peripheral vision
>for situation awareness at a military flying school you would have been a
>candidate for elimination. You would have been taught to "keep your head
>out of the cockpit and on a swivel." In other words, during contact flight,
>your instructor would want to see your head up and in constant motion,
>traversing a very wide angle . You would be taught to cross check
>instruments quickly and return to the routine of turning your head so that
>you could see directly your situation. Good peripheral vision would be a
>requirement for your acceptance in the program, but you would not make the
>grade relying on it as you suggest.

Thank you for your candid opinions on my flying ability. Yeah, I
remember you sitting in the back watching my every move during the
lessons.

For your information I value my life and so the instructor did not
have to tell me to look around regularly and before manoevring.
Do you really imagine I sat there and only looked at the panel and
through the front windshield, with my head fixed and eyes forward like
a freakin crash test dummy or something?

I think a lot of people can tell the difference between sitting at a
computer desk and sitting in a cockpit. I know I can and I'm starting
to wonder if you cannot and therefore are taking it out on the fine
people in this group?

Anyway, this whole discussion wasn't about just turning one's head. It
was about using FS as a training aid. For instance you can read a
mutlitude of books on navigation but putting theory into practice and
using the instruments and charts for real is a different ball game and
requires hours of practice. All I'm saying is that as a training aid
FS is a valuble addition to ground school and you can practice
whenever you like.

Chris Norris

[kallijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
>
> >Peripheral vision? If you had persistently relied upon peripheral vision
> >for situation awareness at a military flying school you would have been a
> >candidate for elimination. You would have been taught to "keep your head
> >out of the cockpit and on a swivel." In other words, during contact
flight,
> >your instructor would want to see your head up and in constant motion,
> >traversing a very wide angle . You would be taught to cross check
> >instruments quickly and return to the routine of turning your head so
that
> >you could see directly your situation. Good peripheral vision would be a
> >requirement for your acceptance in the program, but you would not make
the
> >grade relying on it as you suggest.
>
> Thank you for your candid opinions on my flying ability. Yeah, I
> remember you sitting in the back watching my every move during the
> lessons.
>
> For your information I value my life and so the instructor did not
> have to tell me to look around regularly and before manoevring.

Good for you.

> Do you really imagine I sat there and only looked at the panel and
> through the front windshield, with my head fixed and eyes forward like
> a freakin crash test dummy or something?
>
I know that this will be hard for you to take and I really don't want to
upset you, but the fact is, you have not been uppermost in my mind.
Moreover, I hadn't so much as imagined your existance till now and am having
difficulty with the concept at present. In general, however, the behavior
you mention is typical of new student pilots.

> I think a lot of people can tell the difference between sitting at a
> computer desk and sitting in a cockpit. I know I can and I'm starting
> to wonder if you cannot and therefore are taking it out on the fine
> people in this group?
>
Good for you. Thinking and wondering should help you to sort it all out.

> Anyway, this whole discussion wasn't about just turning one's head. It
> was about using FS as a training aid.
> For instance you can read a
> mutlitude of books on navigation but putting theory into practice and
> using the instruments and charts for real is a different ball game and
> requires hours of practice.
>
> All I'm saying is that as a training aid
> FS is a valuble addition to ground school and you can practice
> whenever you like.
>
> Chris Norris

Apparently, you have not bothered to read the entire thread. Do that and a
little more thinking and wondering.

Kalijaa

[Chris Norris]

O
>> For your information I value my life and so the instructor did not
>> have to tell me to look around regularly and before manoevring.
>
>Good for you.

Yes it was good for me in that I scanned the instruments and scanned
outside in a regular manner without hitting anything. In fact you
could say 'Very good for you'. Like five portions of vegetables a day
or eating a fibre-rich cereal.

>I know that this will be hard for you to take

Not really, I have a life and friends and a good woman. My world
encompasses more than this newsgroup and, well, you!

>, but the fact is, you have not been uppermost in my mind.

Big deal. Like that means something to me.

>
>Good for you. Thinking and wondering should help you to sort it all out.
>

Is there an echo in here? Yes, maybe more people should think before
posting to newsgroups...

>Apparently, you have not bothered to read the entire thread. Do that and a
>little more thinking and wondering.

A great man has written! Not only do you know of my flying lessons you
also know of my computer usage like you have sat next to me and taken
notes. Yet we are strangers and may come from different lands.
What will the prophet say next?

// No I didn't bother to read the entire thread, I just pick posts at
random and write nonsense. //

Naturally I read all preceding posts before commenting to avoid saying
something which would brand me a 'donkey' or to draw what is commonly
known as 'flame posts' written by 'trolls' who like to cause
unnecessary arguments.

Good day to you Sir, I shall retire to the drawing room where I will
partake in a session of Microsoft Flight Simulator version 2004: A
Century of Flight and continue to practice navigation in conjunction
with my Jeppesen charts of the European countries.

Chris

[kallijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
> O
> >> For your information I value my life and so the instructor did not
> >> have to tell me to look around regularly and before manoevring.
> >
> >Good for you.
>
> Yes it was good for me in that I scanned the instruments and scanned
> outside in a regular manner without hitting anything. In fact you
> could say 'Very good for you'. Like five portions of vegetables a day
> or eating a fibre-rich cereal.
>
> >I know that this will be hard for you to take
>
> Not really, I have a life and friends and a good woman. My world
> encompasses more than this newsgroup and, well, you!
>
> >, but the fact is, you have not been uppermost in my mind.
>
> Big deal. Like that means something to me.
>

It must mean a great deal to you, else why ask: "Do you really imagine I
sat there and only looked at the panel and
through the front windshield, with my head fixed and eyes forward like a
freakin crash test dummy or something?"

I'll try to make it easier for you to understand: I did not and do not
imagine that you sat there doing that or anything else. I did not imagine
anything at all about you prior to your appearance here and I do not intend
to waste time imagining about you in the future. You see, I don't really
care what you do or don't do. My original post was not directed at you and
this thread is not the "What in the hell is Chris Norris about" forum.

Try to understand that you are not really the center of the universe. It
does not revolve around you and most, if not all of those that may seem to
you to be out to get you, aren't even aware of your existence.

> >
> >Good for you. Thinking and wondering should help you to sort it all out.
> >
>
> Is there an echo in here? Yes, maybe more people should think before
> posting to newsgroups...
>

I can't resist the temptation to echo that! Good going!!

> >Apparently, you have not bothered to read the entire thread. Do that and
a
> >little more thinking and wondering.
>
> A great man has written! Not only do you know of my flying lessons you
> also know of my computer usage like you have sat next to me and taken
> notes. Yet we are strangers and may come from different lands.
> What will the prophet say next?
>

I prophesy that you will continue, for some few years, in your egocentric
quest for the stature and acclaim you feel you so richly deserve.

> // No I didn't bother to read the entire thread, I just pick posts at
> random and write nonsense. //
>
> Naturally I read all preceding posts before commenting to avoid saying
> something which would brand me a 'donkey' or to draw what is commonly
> known as 'flame posts' written by 'trolls' who like to cause
> unnecessary arguments.
>

The first of those two paragraphs served you better than the last.

> Good day to you Sir, I shall retire to the drawing room where I will
> partake in a session of Microsoft Flight Simulator version 2004: A
> Century of Flight and continue to practice navigation in conjunction
> with my Jeppesen charts of the European countries.
>

What a wasted opportunity. You could have as easily said, "Look at me
everybody, I'm off now to fly the Grand Piano and play with my Aeroplane
Simulator."

> Chris

Kalijaa

[Dashii]

"DwightD" <far@away> wrote in message
...
> On 26 Oct 2003 20:45:09 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
> wrote:
>
> >what would you know about it, dipwad?
> >
> > SpeedByrd PhD
>
> We know you are a 50+ fat old man who sweeps the floors at a
> university. The closest you have ever been to sex is with your hand
> and the neighbors dog.

Oh and the best part of him ran down his Mom's customer's leg! <VBG>

Dashii

[Don Parker]

> SpeedByrd PhD

PhD in this case =
Ph: Phucking
D: Multiple choice
1. Dork
2. Dickhead
3. Dip****
4. Dimwit
5. Dunce
6. Delusional
7. Detestable
8. Despicable
9. Deplorable
10. ALL OF THE ABOVE!

Care to have a vote?

I'll start with a vote for #10

--
Cheers'n Beers [_])
Don

[Dashii]

"Don Parker" > wrote in message
...
> > SpeedByrd PhD
>
> PhD in this case =
> Ph: Phucking
> D: Multiple choice
> 1. Dork
> 2. Dickhead
> 3. Dip****
> 4. Dimwit
> 5. Dunce
> 6. Delusional
> 7. Detestable
> 8. Despicable
> 9. Deplorable
> 10. ALL OF THE ABOVE!
>
> Care to have a vote?
>
> I'll start with a vote for #10

#11 DumbPhuck! LOL

> --
> Cheers'n Beers [_])
> Don
>
>

[BarFly]

On 27 Oct 2003 07:55:03 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
Took the vibrator out of his ass long enough to write:

>the world hated us long before I came along. But that's OK. Georgie will fix things! LOL!!
>
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

George will be another ONE TERM President just like his daddy!
Then we will spend the next 50 years paying for Little George's
LittleMan complex war!

ps. Your filter stopped working, asshole! What a DUMB piece of ****
you are Wayne the Pain! Hahahahahahahaha

Now get back to sweeping those lab floors.

[FlyBar]

On 27 Oct 2003 07:57:05 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
took his shlong out of his mother long enough to write:

>Couldn't get near the dog. Couldn't get your wife's mouth off his dick or your little dick out of his ass.
>SpeedByrd PhD

Amateur!

Your filter choked again, MORON! :-)

[FlyBar]

On 27 Oct 2003 21:42:07 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
put down his broom to write:

>you spell like some foreign terrorist moron
>
>SpeedByrd BSer

You SMELL like a short, fat 50+ year old who has done NOTHING with his
life and will croak as a NOBODY!

[Al Denelsbeck]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:08:11 GMT, Al Denelsbeck >
> wrote:
>
>> Ah, look, I got a personal reply from SpeedByrd, R.A.S.'s
>> resident
>>for emotional outbursts and tantrums! How long can I drag you along in
>>a thread where you continue to post spittle-spraying rants that
>>demonstrate your intelligence and maturity?
>
>
> 'bout as long as you can.
>>
>> I should probably thank you. The thread regarding the fake FS
>>download a few months back had some of my friends in tears, they were
>>laughing so hard. Went on for days. Anyone with just a smidgen of
>>awareness would have seen the warning signs that something wasn't
>>kosher - you, my friend, just kept plugging away without a single
>>intelligent thought occurring to you (like even trying to find the
>>site you were harping about). You even sent it to Microsoft's
>>attention for piracy! Priceless!
>>
>> So I certainly value your input, and look forward to many
>> more posts
>>in the thread. Fire away!
>>
>>
>> - Al.
>
> As long you entertain me, you can expect them. From what I've seen,
> though, you rely on brute force to get your point across. That has a
> very short life span and also little effect. Carry on Squirt.

Ahhh, now c'mon, clever me lad, now's not the time to try getting all
mature on us. You're gonna disappoint the people who enjoy watching you
make a total ass of yourself!

Brute force, you say? As opposed to... what? Your buddy Kallijaa who
scampered for cover when confronted with someone who refused to buy his
unsupportable horse****? Or you yourself, who instantaneously resorts to
abusive posts as soon as any nonsense you spout is countered by anyone
whatsoever? Please, fill me in on how you rate these remarkable examples of
participation.

But yes, we'll continue to amuse you if you like, at least until you
reach puberty and discover other things to do with your hands...


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> . 8...
>> "kallijaa" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> >
>> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
>> > . 7...
>>
>> >> Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly
>> >> have a
>> >> reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it
>> >> out.
>> > Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.
>> >>
>> > That is not an arguement. However, it does describes your
>> > condition if you think that I'm going to "trot out" anything to
>> > persuade the likes of you.
>>
>>
>> Yep. That's about what I expected. Suddenly the supreme
>> confidence of
>> telling everyone exactly how it is fades and disappears when it comes
>> down to offering any proof at all for your claims, to hide behind the
>> outstanding statement of "I don't haven to prove anything to anybody,
>> so there!"
>>
>> Welcome to Usenet, Skippy. You have no authority here, either.
>> "Put
>> up or shut up" is the order of the day.
>>
>>
>> - Al.
>>
> Thanks for the enlightening input Al. I expected something of the
> sort earlier, but better late than never. If you hadn't showed up,
> someone would have been forced to invent you.
>
> Maybe someone did.


Awww, you found out my secret! Yep, I'm just a figment of your
imagination. About like your ideas on flight instruction.

Keep running! I don't go away that easily.



- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[kallijaa]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
...
>
> Kalijaa??? what kind of foreigner name is that? And to think you feel
you're part of the group. Gross!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Where did you get the idea that I feel part of the group?

As to the "foriegn" name, it works for me. Not as All American as yours to
be sure, but what the hell. I see others posting what appear to be real
names, N numbers, CFI certificate numbers etc., along with fancy sounding
Associations (notice the capital "A") with which they claim affiliation; and
I'm really impressed!

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:03:04 -0800, "kallijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> Kalijaa??? what kind of foreigner name is that? And to think you
feel
> >you're part of the group. Gross!
> >>
> >> SpeedByrd PhD
> >
> >Where did you get the idea that I feel part of the group?
>
> Silly thought, huh?
>
> >
> >As to the "foriegn" name, it works for me. Not as All American as yours
to
> >be sure, but what the hell. I see others posting what appear to be real
> >names, N numbers, CFI certificate numbers etc., along with fancy sounding
> >Associations (notice the capital "A") with which they claim affiliation;
and
> >I'm really impressed!
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
> How nice for you. Now go away.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

And leave the place for you to bustle in? Not for a while.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
...

>
> Brute force, you say? As opposed to... what? Your buddy Kallijaa who
> scampered for cover when confronted with someone who refused to buy his
> unsupportable horse****?

Scampered for cover? Rather say, stood by so as to permit you to display
your true character.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > . 8...
> >> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> >> > . 7...
> >>
> >> >> Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly
> >> >> have a
> >> >> reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it
> >> >> out.
> >> > Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****.
> >> >>
> >> > That is not an arguement. However, it does describes your
> >> > condition if you think that I'm going to "trot out" anything to
> >> > persuade the likes of you.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yep. That's about what I expected. Suddenly the supreme
> >> confidence of
> >> telling everyone exactly how it is fades and disappears when it comes
> >> down to offering any proof at all for your claims, to hide behind the
> >> outstanding statement of "I don't haven to prove anything to anybody,
> >> so there!"
> >>
> >> Welcome to Usenet, Skippy. You have no authority here, either.
> >> "Put
> >> up or shut up" is the order of the day.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Al.
> >>
> > Thanks for the enlightening input Al. I expected something of the
> > sort earlier, but better late than never. If you hadn't showed up,
> > someone would have been forced to invent you.
> >
> > Maybe someone did.
>
>
> Awww, you found out my secret! Yep, I'm just a figment of your
> imagination. About like your ideas on flight instruction.
>
> Keep running! I don't go away that easily.
>
>
>
> - Al.
>
>
The game of make believing is free and without limit. Enjoy.

Kalijaa

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in news:NaadncFC5NI3iQOiU-
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>> Brute force, you say? As opposed to... what? Your buddy Kallijaa who
>> scampered for cover when confronted with someone who refused to buy his
>> unsupportable horse****?
>
> Scampered for cover? Rather say, stood by so as to permit you to display
> your true character.


Hmmmm, let's see. First you posted repeatedly on how damaging sim
behavior was, and very specifically I might add, not just speculating but
insisting on how it could wash someone out of flight instruction.

Then you 'got offended' when someone called your asinine bluff, and
refused to answer on the basis that it was beneath you to actually respond
to such callous behavior. Despite the fact that providing support for your
standpoint is always the best way to silence those hecklers, and that you
had *already* responded to the first post, which was far more insulting.

And now you're engaging in "Your momma so fat" contests?

Okay, just checking. Please, go on with your character evaluations,
I'm sure there's a lot we all could learn from them.


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Chris Norris]

>I'll try to make it easier for you to understand: I did not and do not
>imagine that you sat there doing that or anything else. I did not imagine
>anything at all about you prior to your appearance here and I do not intend
>to waste time imagining about you in the future. You see, I don't really
>care what you do or don't do. My original post was not directed at you and
>this thread is not the "What in the hell is Chris Norris about" forum.
>
>Try to understand that you are not really the center of the universe. It
>does not revolve around you and most, if not all of those that may seem to
>you to be out to get you, aren't even aware of your existence.

No the "What in the hell is Chris Norris about" forum is on the
alt.chris.norris newsgroup.

and

www.chrisnorris.co.uk

Anyway I spoke to my instructor and told him that there is this entity
on the internet who tars every student with the same big brush by
making sweeping statements about their lack of ability to transition
from Flight Sim to Flight Real.
We agreed there may be SOME people but certainly not ALL.

Now go tar someone else with your self righteous brush.

Chris

[kallijaa]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
...
>
> You and Al Dumbbuck are made for each other!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Having fun?

[kallijaa]

"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:47:50 -0800, "kallijaa" > wrote:
>
> >And leave the place for you to bustle in? Not for a while.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
>
> Do as you're told, foreigner!!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

No, no doctor, I want to see the rest of the show.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 8...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in news:NaadncFC5NI3iQOiU-
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>
> >> Brute force, you say? As opposed to... what? Your buddy Kallijaa
who
> >> scampered for cover when confronted with someone who refused to buy his
> >> unsupportable horse****?
> >
> > Scampered for cover? Rather say, stood by so as to permit you to
display
> > your true character.
>
>
> Hmmmm, let's see. First you posted repeatedly on how damaging sim
> behavior was, and very specifically I might add, not just speculating but
> insisting on how it could wash someone out of flight instruction.
>
> Then you 'got offended' when someone called your asinine bluff, and
> refused to answer on the basis that it was beneath you to actually respond
> to such callous behavior.

Offended? Not in the least. Yours was precisely the kind of reaction
expected.

> Despite the fact that providing support for your
> standpoint is always the best way to silence those hecklers,

Nothing is proven here and it's a foolisn waste of time to try. Besides, why
should I want to silence hecklers? They illustrate my point admirably (I
predicted majority disagreement).

> and that you had *already* responded to the first post, which was far more
insulting.
>

Insulting? The point made must have struck a nerve.

> And now you're engaging in "Your momma so fat" contests?
>

No, you are reading someone else's mail. I'll leave that approach to the
group intelligentsia.

> Okay, just checking. Please, go on with your character evaluations,
> I'm sure there's a lot we all could learn from them.
>
>
> - Al.
>

Thanks Al, you provide ample grist for my mill.

Evaluation: Typical discussion group belligerent who talks tough while
enjoying the relative safety of home and internet. A coward or a teenager.

Prognosis: Continued degradation if adult; possible improvement following
abatement of acne if a teenager.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> >No, no doctor, I want to see the rest of the show.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
> >
>
> Huh! Was this you causing arguments in the past?
>
>
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?q=Kalijaa&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm
=8fsfmk%241086%241%40ausnews.austin.ibm.com&rnum=7
>
The same.

Kallija.

[kallijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
>
> >I'll try to make it easier for you to understand: I did not and do not
> >imagine that you sat there doing that or anything else. I did not
imagine
> >anything at all about you prior to your appearance here and I do not
intend
> >to waste time imagining about you in the future. You see, I don't really
> >care what you do or don't do. My original post was not directed at you
and
> >this thread is not the "What in the hell is Chris Norris about" forum.
> >
> >Try to understand that you are not really the center of the universe. It
> >does not revolve around you and most, if not all of those that may seem
to
> >you to be out to get you, aren't even aware of your existence.
>
> No the "What in the hell is Chris Norris about" forum is on the
> alt.chris.norris newsgroup.
>
> and
>
> www.chrisnorris.co.uk
>
> Anyway I spoke to my instructor and told him that there is this entity
> on the internet who tars every student with the same big brush by
> making sweeping statements about their lack of ability to transition
> from Flight Sim to Flight Real.
> We agreed there may be SOME people but certainly not ALL.
>
> Now go tar someone else with your self righteous brush.
>
> Chris

You got that wrong Chris, I said that it was a common problem, not that the
problem was common to all student pilots. I did mentioned exceptions to the
rule. Whether or not you had such a problem is insignificant. Whether I
believe your claim is unimportant. What you and your instructor agreed upon
is of no interest.

Kalijaa

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> . 8...
>> "kallijaa" > wrote in news:NaadncFC5NI3iQOiU-
>> :
>>
>> >
>> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Brute force, you say? As opposed to... what? Your buddy
>> >> Kallijaa
> who
>> >> scampered for cover when confronted with someone who refused to
>> >> buy his unsupportable horse****?
>> >
>> > Scampered for cover? Rather say, stood by so as to permit you to
> display
>> > your true character.
>>
>>
>> Hmmmm, let's see. First you posted repeatedly on how damaging sim
>> behavior was, and very specifically I might add, not just speculating
>> but insisting on how it could wash someone out of flight instruction.
>>
>> Then you 'got offended' when someone called your asinine bluff,
>> and
>> refused to answer on the basis that it was beneath you to actually
>> respond to such callous behavior.
>
> Offended? Not in the least. Yours was precisely the kind of reaction
> expected.
>
>> Despite the fact that providing support for your
>> standpoint is always the best way to silence those hecklers,
>
> Nothing is proven here and it's a foolisn waste of time to try.
> Besides, why should I want to silence hecklers? They illustrate my
> point admirably (I predicted majority disagreement).
>
>> and that you had *already* responded to the first post, which was far
>> more
> insulting.
>>
>
> Insulting? The point made must have struck a nerve.
>
>> And now you're engaging in "Your momma so fat" contests?
>>
>
> No, you are reading someone else's mail. I'll leave that approach to
> the group intelligentsia.
>
>> Okay, just checking. Please, go on with your character
>> evaluations,
>> I'm sure there's a lot we all could learn from them.
>>
>>
>> - Al.
>>
>
> Thanks Al, you provide ample grist for my mill.
>
> Evaluation: Typical discussion group belligerent who talks tough
> while enjoying the relative safety of home and internet. A coward or a
> teenager.
>
> Prognosis: Continued degradation if adult; possible improvement
> following abatement of acne if a teenager.


Awwww, you're missing out on another prime area of study!

First of all, look up 'evaluation' and 'prognosis'; you're using them
incorrectly. Clumsy.

But try this:

Experiment: Poster discoursing at length with faux-intelligence,
countered at factual level by someone who is not impressed with a poorly-
portrayed air of authority.

Response: Repeated attempts by poster to maintain control of
situation by deflecting purpose of original posts into myriad directions
while still maintaining portrayed air of authority. Various reasons given
for never producing supportive information, including claiming that this
wasn't 'original purpose'. Changing of directive easily noted when
comparing subsequent posts.

Conclusion: Original poster trying desperately to save face and not
reveal that posts were poor attempt to participate at an inappropriate
level.

Note that this is nothing new, but yes, just a fraction newer than
your own apparent 'studies'. Neither one too impressive - the
defined concepts have only been around for the past couple hundred years,
despite the damage Freud tried to do with the motivations behind them. So
while another nice try at running away yet again, we're not buying the
'study' aspect either. Pretty scattered behavior for someone who claims to
be pursuing some kind of 'research', and research, moreover, that nobody
would really give a damn about.

Not to mention ignoring some prime areas of background study, right
in front of your nose ;-)

You amused yet? C'mon, try yet another tack, "Professor".


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Dashii]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> >No, no doctor, I want to see the rest of the show.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
> >
>
> Huh! Was this you causing arguments in the past?
>
>
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?q=Kalijaa&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=8fsfmk%241086%241%40ausnews.austin.ibm.com&rnum=7

LOL, Kalijaa is just full of tired old clichés, among other things.

Dashii
>

[Dr. Speedbum]

Hey Scott,

How is Kingsport....?

Your pal,
goo




"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:41:43 -0800, "Dashii" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"DwightD" <far@away> wrote in message
> ...
> >> On 26 Oct 2003 20:45:09 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >what would you know about it, dipwad?
> >> >
> >> > SpeedByrd PhD
> >>
> >> We know you are a 50+ fat old man who sweeps the floors at a
> >> university. The closest you have ever been to sex is with your hand
> >> and the neighbors dog.
> >
> >Oh and the best part of him ran down his Mom's customer's leg! <VBG>
> >
> >Dashii
> >
>
>
> The best part of your daddy ran up the ass of the neighbor's pig.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

[kallijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 6...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > . 8...
> >> "kallijaa" > wrote in news:NaadncFC5NI3iQOiU-
> >> :
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Brute force, you say? As opposed to... what? Your buddy
> >> >> Kallijaa
> > who
> >> >> scampered for cover when confronted with someone who refused to
> >> >> buy his unsupportable horse****?
> >> >
> >> > Scampered for cover? Rather say, stood by so as to permit you to
> > display
> >> > your true character.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hmmmm, let's see. First you posted repeatedly on how damaging sim
> >> behavior was, and very specifically I might add, not just speculating
> >> but insisting on how it could wash someone out of flight instruction.
> >>
> >> Then you 'got offended' when someone called your asinine bluff,
> >> and
> >> refused to answer on the basis that it was beneath you to actually
> >> respond to such callous behavior.
> >
> > Offended? Not in the least. Yours was precisely the kind of reaction
> > expected.
> >
> >> Despite the fact that providing support for your
> >> standpoint is always the best way to silence those hecklers,
> >
> > Nothing is proven here and it's a foolisn waste of time to try.
> > Besides, why should I want to silence hecklers? They illustrate my
> > point admirably (I predicted majority disagreement).
> >
> >> and that you had *already* responded to the first post, which was far
> >> more
> > insulting.
> >>
> >
> > Insulting? The point made must have struck a nerve.
> >
> >> And now you're engaging in "Your momma so fat" contests?
> >>
> >
> > No, you are reading someone else's mail. I'll leave that approach to
> > the group intelligentsia.
> >
> >> Okay, just checking. Please, go on with your character
> >> evaluations,
> >> I'm sure there's a lot we all could learn from them.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Al.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks Al, you provide ample grist for my mill.
> >
> > Evaluation: Typical discussion group belligerent who talks tough
> > while enjoying the relative safety of home and internet. A coward or a
> > teenager.
> >
> > Prognosis: Continued degradation if adult; possible improvement
> > following abatement of acne if a teenager.
>
>
> Awwww, you're missing out on another prime area of study!
>
> First of all, look up 'evaluation' and 'prognosis'; you're using them
> incorrectly. Clumsy.
>
> But try this:
>
> Experiment: Poster discoursing at length with faux-intelligence,
> countered at factual level by someone who is not impressed with a poorly-
> portrayed air of authority.
>
> Response: Repeated attempts by poster to maintain control of
> situation by deflecting purpose of original posts into myriad directions
> while still maintaining portrayed air of authority. Various reasons given
> for never producing supportive information, including claiming that this
> wasn't 'original purpose'. Changing of directive easily noted when
> comparing subsequent posts.
>
> Conclusion: Original poster trying desperately to save face and not
> reveal that posts were poor attempt to participate at an inappropriate
> level.
>
> Note that this is nothing new, but yes, just a fraction newer than
> your own apparent 'studies'. Neither one too impressive - the
> defined concepts have only been around for the past couple hundred years,
> despite the damage Freud tried to do with the motivations behind them. So
> while another nice try at running away yet again, we're not buying the
> 'study' aspect either. Pretty scattered behavior for someone who claims to
> be pursuing some kind of 'research', and research, moreover, that nobody
> would really give a damn about.
>
> Not to mention ignoring some prime areas of background study, right
> in front of your nose ;-)
>
> You amused yet? C'mon, try yet another tack, "Professor".
>
>
> - Al.
>
I am amused at how you spew when punctured.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"The Speedbird" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I'm amused that a third rate foreigner hangs around where not wanted. Go
back to Iraq.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

SpeedByrd? Hmm, it seems I've heard that before. That's some kind of hoof
and mouth disease right?

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"The Speedbird" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:36:02 -0800, "kallijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> You and Al Dumbbuck are made for each other!
> >>
> >> SpeedByrd PhD
> >
> >Having fun?
> >
>
>
> Sure, but you two are having more! LOL!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Could be. Could be.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"The Speedbird" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:41:47 -0800, "kallijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dr. Speedbyrd :>" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:47:50 -0800, "kallijaa" >
wrote:
> >>
> >> >And leave the place for you to bustle in? Not for a while.
> >> >
> >> >Kalijaa
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Do as you're told, foreigner!!
> >>
> >> SpeedByrd PhD
> >
> >No, no doctor, I want to see the rest of the show.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
> >
>
>
> I don't give a **** what you want! Go back to Iraq!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Not until I see the end credits. We've had the dissing, spitting and
****ing contests, but when do you people really get into it?

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"The Byrd" > wrote in message
...

>
> Where you come from, you'd know all about disease. you were spawned from
a diseased womb.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Now, that's more like it. The true you.

Kalijaa

[kallijaa]

"The Byrd" > wrote in message
...

>
> When you go back to the hole you climbed out of. You're not welcome
here.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

You cut me to the quick. But really, when do you geeks get it on? I've
never seen such a bunch of wimps.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
> oh lets see what you said:
>
Good, you can copy and paste, but can you tie your shoes and wave bye bye?

Kalijaa

[CaptK]

On 28 Oct 2003 21:02:18 -0600, The Speedbird > wrote:

>You run off at the yap too much. Shut up!

NO. Now go back to mopping the floors, Wayne. Did your mommy bring
your lunch yet?

[CaptK]

On 28 Oct 2003 22:07:04 -0600, The Speedbird > wrote:

>I'm amused that a third rate foreigner hangs around where not wanted. Go back to Iraq.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

We're amused a 3rd rate janitor hasn't gone back to Bolivia.....right
Wayne! Hahahahahahaha

Well you mommy still loves you....well.....only when you force
yourself on her.

[CaptK]

On 29 Oct 2003 08:17:37 -0600, The Byrd > wrote:


>foreign scum
> SpeedByrd PhD

SpeedDump....you are an embarrassment to every American!

[Chris Norris]

>
>Good, you can copy and paste, but can you tie your shoes and wave bye bye?
>
>Kalijaa
>

Yes of course - what a strange question.

Anyway, you're just sore cos I showed you up for the troll you are.

[kalijaa]

"The Byrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:07:51 -0800, "kallijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"The Byrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>
> >> When you go back to the hole you climbed out of. You're not welcome
> >here.
> >>
> >> SpeedByrd PhD
> >
> >You cut me to the quick. But really, when do you geeks get it on? I've
> >never seen such a bunch of wimps.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
>
> Then go back to your homeland where they have dedicated rape-rooms so that
you hooligans can reaffirm your
> manhood.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

The comedy is better here.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"The Byrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:41:48 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> oh lets see what you said:
> >>
> >Good, you can copy and paste, but can you tie your shoes and wave bye
bye?
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
> foreign scum
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

junk yard dog

Kalijaa

[LPA]

WILL kall and speedbyrd please SHUT UP. This thread has gone well beyond
immature and pathetic. NOBODY on here wants to you hear two go back and
forth and back and forth. You are both children - admit it and get on with
life. I can't believe I have to waste my bandwidth downloading you two
preschoolers going at it.

[kalijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Good, you can copy and paste, but can you tie your shoes and wave bye
bye?
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
> Yes of course - what a strange question.
>
> Anyway, you're just sore cos I showed you up for the troll you are.

How clever, but if I'm a troll, what does that make you? A fish or "Billy
Goat Gruff?"

[Raymond]

"CaptK" <back@bobs> wrote in message
...
> On 28 Oct 2003 22:07:04 -0600, The Speedbird > wrote:
>
> >I'm amused that a third rate foreigner hangs around where not wanted. Go
back to Iraq.
> >
> > SpeedByrd PhD
>
> We're amused a 3rd rate janitor hasn't gone back to Bolivia.....right
> Wayne! Hahahahahahaha
>
> Well you mommy still loves you....well.....only when you force
> yourself on her.

I think I met his mother, isn't she the one that runs around Harlem with a
mattress on her back, yelling curb service, 50 cent?

Ray

[CaptK]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:15:13 -0800, "Raymond" > wrote:

>I think I met his mother, isn't she the one that runs around Harlem with a
>mattress on her back, yelling curb service, 50 cent?
>
>Ray

50 cents?? I guess she's raised her prices! Hahahahahahaha

[CaptK]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:47 -0600, "LPA" >
wrote:

>WILL kall and speedbyrd please SHUT UP. This thread has gone well beyond
>immature and pathetic. NOBODY on here wants to you hear two go back and
>forth and back and forth. You are both children - admit it and get on with
>life. I can't believe I have to waste my bandwidth downloading you two
>preschoolers going at it.
>

Simple solution, LPA....DON'T READ THE DAMN THING IF YOU DON"T LIKE
IT!

[Ed Forsythe]

Hi Dudley,
Was it a yoke as we know it or a small circular thing on top of a stick -
Spit type?
--
Happy Flying,
Ed
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Quilljar" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ed Forsythe wrote:
> > > I agree completely with all except "yoke" <bg>. I hate yokes, love
> > > sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s
> >
> >
> > I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn
a
> > flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck!
>
>
> I ferried a P38L once that you might have enjoyed flying :-)))
>
> Dudley Henriques
> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
> Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
> For personal email, please replace
> the z's with e's.
> dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt
>
>

[LPA]

I'll save everybody the pain of going back and forth with you . But tell me
how to ignore something before I read it?

Can somebody please share with me a way to not download or ignore all posts
from any of these three gentlemen or women?

"CaptK" <fake@address> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:29:47 -0600, "LPA" >
> wrote:
>
> >WILL kall and speedbyrd please SHUT UP. This thread has gone well beyond
> >immature and pathetic. NOBODY on here wants to you hear two go back and
> >forth and back and forth. You are both children - admit it and get on
with
> >life. I can't believe I have to waste my bandwidth downloading you two
> >preschoolers going at it.
> >
>
> Simple solution, LPA....DON'T READ THE DAMN THING IF YOU DON"T LIKE
> IT!

[CaptK]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:17:10 -0600, "LPA" >
wrote:

>Can somebody please share with me a way to not download or ignore all posts
>from any of these three gentlemen or women?

That's why the good Lord invented Filters. Trouble is with accounts
like mine you end up blocking ALL users of a news service to stop one.

Patrick...in all honesty, UseNet is older than the World Wide Web
(WWW) it is a cornerstone of the Net. It has NO administrating body.
Nobody actually sets the rules or polices them. All you can do is
complain to an ISP but many users don't "show" an IP.

Flame wars like this have been going on since the Net was a puppy!
You think this is bad....go read some of the religious newsgroups!
They use death threats daily! This is a scuffle in a kiddy's
playground compared to what goes on in some of the 40,000+ newsgroups.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Ed Forsythe" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dudley,
> Was it a yoke as we know it or a small circular thing on top of a stick -
> Spit type?
> --
> Happy Flying,
> Ed

Hi Ed;
Almost missed you. I left this thread and just happened to checl back again.

The 38 has an X yoke that sort of looks like a pretzel. The Spit; (I flew
the Mk 16) has a round handle on top of an English type stick.
Dudley

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kallijaa" > wrote in
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> . 6...

>> You amused yet? C'mon, try yet another tack, "Professor".
>>
>>
>> - Al.
>>
> I am amused at how you spew when punctured.
>
> Kalijaa


That's it? C'mon, what happened to all that **** you were making up?
You're not telling me you ran out of creativity that fast, are you? I
figured your next story was that this was all a secret assignment, or you
were being guided by the implant in your brain. You sure dropped your
research angle in a hurry, Professor.

Damn, if you're just gonna turn into another SpEdByrd with these
lame-ass replies, people are gonna stop paying any attention to you
whatsoever. So quick quick, make with the connections to the royal family
or something, before we all lose interest...


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Al Denelsbeck]

The Speedbird > wrote in
:


> A dumb kraut pig like you can't hope to learn.
>
> SpeedByrd PhD


OH! Why, you... you *******! How DARE you liken me to cabbage
products! Well, you can just *forget* about being invited to my birthday
party!

I'd shoot back an insult in return, but I'm not sure THAT one can be
topped, hoo boy! What a zinger! I didn't realize what I was up against...


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[Chris Norris]

>
>How clever, but if I'm a troll, what does that make you? A fish or "Billy
>Goat Gruff?"
>

A fish due to my star sign

[Ed Forsythe]

Dudley, you're one of my heroes - a '38 and a Spit!! Now if you rounded that
out with a little time in a '51 you can probably walk on water <VBG>.
--
Happy Flying,
Ed
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Ed Forsythe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Dudley,
> > Was it a yoke as we know it or a small circular thing on top of a
stick -
> > Spit type?
> > --
> > Happy Flying,
> > Ed
>
> Hi Ed;
> Almost missed you. I left this thread and just happened to checl back
again.
>
> The 38 has an X yoke that sort of looks like a pretzel. The Spit; (I flew
> the Mk 16) has a round handle on top of an English type stick.
> Dudley
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

"Ed Forsythe" > wrote in message
...
> Dudley, you're one of my heroes - a '38 and a Spit!! Now if you rounded
that
> out with a little time in a '51 you can probably walk on water <VBG>.
> --
> Happy Flying,
> Ed

Seems to me I actually HAVE a "few" hours in that bird somewhere in the logs
:-))))

D

[kalijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 6...


This is the third response to this messsage. The first two have yet to
appear on the thread. The problem is probably on my end. Otherwise, they
may eventually trickle down, but I'm not waiting for that.

With respect to this garbage:

> Pretty scattered behavior for someone who claims to
> be pursuing some kind of 'research', and research, moreover, that nobody
> would really give a damn about.
>

Al, you are either dyslectic, an imbecile or a liar. Most likely, you are a
combination of at least two of those. Your implication that I mentioned
"study" or claimed to be pursuing some kind of research, is a lie. You, who
on 10/25/03 posted: "Since you're offering this so comfortably, you
undoubtedly have a reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So
trot it out. Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****," now
have a first rate opportunity to show us how its done. The "reputable
source at hand" is right in front of you. Your task will be easy if you're
telling the truth and impossible if you're lying. Search the thread, find
the message where I mentioned study or research, repost the message here and
prove me a liar, or fail to do so and prove yourself to be a pathetic fraud
who wound up hoisted on his own petard and an ass who foolishly draws
attention to himself with bluff and bluster.

Your bluff has been called.

>
> You amused yet?

Amused enough to withdraw 'dyslectic' from my accusation.

>C'mon, try yet another tack, "Professor".
>

How's them for tacks?

>
> - Al.
>
> --
Kalijaa

domain

[kalijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 6...
> "kallijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > . 6...
>
> >> You amused yet? C'mon, try yet another tack, "Professor".
> >>
> >>
> >> - Al.
> >>
> > I am amused at how you spew when punctured.
> >
> > Kalijaa
>
>
> That's it? C'mon, what happened to all that **** you were making up?
> You're not telling me you ran out of creativity that fast, are you? I
> figured your next story was that this was all a secret assignment, or you
> were being guided by the implant in your brain. You sure dropped your
> research angle in a hurry, Professor.
>
> Damn, if you're just gonna turn into another SpEdByrd with these
> lame-ass replies, people are gonna stop paying any attention to you
> whatsoever. So quick quick, make with the connections to the royal family
> or something, before we all lose interest...
>
>
> - Al.
>

so loose interest

[kalijaa]

"The Byrd" > wrote in message
...
>
> go look up your mommy's dress and see if you can find the way back home
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Alright SpeedByrd, you asked for it: Your feet stink and your gig line is
crooked.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >How clever, but if I'm a troll, what does that make you? A fish or
"Billy
> >Goat Gruff?"
> >
>
> A fish due to my star sign

Do you also have the bumps on what passes for your head perused from time to
time?

[kalijaa]

"Ze Bird" > wrote in message
...

<outrageously filthy insult snipped>

I haven't heared from Al lately, but I predict some word soon.

As for you mr. nasty old speedbyd, yo momma wears army shoes.

> The SpeedByrd :>

[kalijaa]

"Ze Bird" > wrote in message
...

<rude remark removed>

> The SpeedByrd :>

Bad old speedbyrd, yo so dumb, yo aint got no brains yo!

[kalijaa]

"Ze Bird" > wrote in message
...

<naughty no-no nixed>

> The SpeedByrd :>

Yo bad, bad, baaad old speedbyrd. yo momma gonna wash yo mouf out.

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...

<vulgar verbiage vanished>

> The SpeedByrd :>

Now that was not a very nice thing to say, Speedbyrd. Why are you always
badmouthin' folks and why do you pick on them poor Iraqis so much? What
have they ever done to you? Most of them are probably real nice folks that
lived in a real nice place before it got so messed up and all, especially
that nice Baghdad place.

You keep on badmouthin' folks and you might just tarnish your shiny
reputation. Wouldn't that be terrible?

Kalijaa

[WalFart]

On 1 Nov 2003 11:24:13 -0600, Speedbyyrd > wrote:

>at least I know who my momma was.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Do they still clean her cage at 9am and feed her at noon, Speedburp?

[Raymond]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:19:57 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Ze Bird" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> ><naughty no-no nixed>
> >
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >Yo bad, bad, baaad old speedbyrd. yo momma gonna wash yo mouf out.
> >
>
> at least I know who my momma was. Ya'alls niggas dont' have that luxury.

We shure nuff du, when we want to clean yoo mama mouth, we **** in it. <VBG>

iffing yoo mama hab da dicks stickin out her as stuck in her, she look like
porcupine! Muhahahahaha.

Yoo mama so ugly she shave her ass an walk backwords! :)

Ray

[kalijaa]

"WalFart" <Back@home> wrote in message
...

<crude comment cut>

WalFart, yo almost as bad as bad old Speedbyrd!

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:26:39 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> ><vulgar verbiage vanished>
> >
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >Now that was not a very nice thing to say, Speedbyrd. Why are you always
> >badmouthin' folks and why do you pick on them poor Iraqis so much? What
> >have they ever done to you? Most of them are probably real nice folks
that
> >lived in a real nice place before it got so messed up and all, especially
> >that nice Baghdad place.
> >
>
>
> Then go back to it!
>

I can't go back to where I've never been. Besides, it's probably not so
nice nowdays.

> >You keep on badmouthin' folks and you might just tarnish your shiny
> >reputation. Wouldn't that be terrible?
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
> Not as terrible as your lame posts.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Now that's more like it. See, you can write without using explitives and
racial slurs.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:24:20 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"WalFart" <Back@home> wrote in message
> ...
> >
> ><crude comment cut>
> >
> >WalFart, yo almost as bad as bad old Speedbyrd!
> >
>
>
> What's a walfart? Someone who can't afford to shop at Walmart?
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

I don't know SpeedByrd, yo got to go ask WalFart about that. Anyhow,
congratulations on yo reformation and yo new style.

Kalijaa

[WalFart]

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:24:20 -0800, "kalijaa" >
wrote:

>WalFart, yo almost as bad as bad old Speedbyrd!

I fight fire with fire! :-)

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:17:22 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:26:39 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> ><vulgar verbiage vanished>
> >> >
> >> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >> >
> >> >Now that was not a very nice thing to say, Speedbyrd. Why are you
always
> >> >badmouthin' folks and why do you pick on them poor Iraqis so much?
What
> >> >have they ever done to you? Most of them are probably real nice folks
> >that
> >> >lived in a real nice place before it got so messed up and all,
especially
> >> >that nice Baghdad place.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Then go back to it!
> >>
> >
> >I can't go back to where I've never been. Besides, it's probably not so
> >nice nowdays.
> >
>
> Go check it out. Take as long as you need.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Nah, guess not. I'd rather wait until all the hubub is over and
everything's cleaned up. Clean is nicer than dirty, 'coz it's neater.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"WalFart" <Back@home> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:24:20 -0800, "kalijaa" >
> wrote:
>
> >WalFart, yo almost as bad as bad old Speedbyrd!
>
> I fight fire with fire! :-)
>

Different strokes for different folks.

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 23:04:22 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"WalFart" <Back@home> wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:24:20 -0800, "kalijaa" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >WalFart, yo almost as bad as bad old Speedbyrd!
> >>
> >> I fight fire with fire! :-)
> >>
> >
> >Different strokes for different folks.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> How original!!! Did your terrorist daddy take time to teach you that one?
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Thanks SpeedByrd, now it's your turn to be brilliant.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:04:02 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:17:22 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:26:39 -0800, "kalijaa" >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><vulgar verbiage vanished>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Now that was not a very nice thing to say, Speedbyrd. Why are you
> >always
> >> >> >badmouthin' folks and why do you pick on them poor Iraqis so much?
> >What
> >> >> >have they ever done to you? Most of them are probably real nice
folks
> >> >that
> >> >> >lived in a real nice place before it got so messed up and all,
> >especially
> >> >> >that nice Baghdad place.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Then go back to it!
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >I can't go back to where I've never been. Besides, it's probably not
so
> >> >nice nowdays.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Go check it out. Take as long as you need.
> >>
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >Nah, guess not. I'd rather wait until all the hubub is over and
> >everything's cleaned up. Clean is nicer than dirty, 'coz it's neater.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
>
> You're seriously mentally deficient.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Crazy old SpeedByrd.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...

<blichh>

> Go back to Iraq
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

"Terrorists, foreigners and Iraq." Yours is a range to small to guage by
ordinary means, but at least you've found your niche.

Next.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...

<yawn>

>
> Go back to Iraq
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Your range is diminishing. I didn't think that was possible.

Kalijaa

[BumpMart]

On 2 Nov 2003 10:56:12 -0600, Speedbyyrd > wrote:

>Go back to Iraq
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Crawl back under the toilet, SpeedTwit.

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:47:47 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> ><yawn>
> >
> >>
> >> Go back to Iraq
> >>
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >Your range is diminishing. I didn't think that was possible.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
>
> So has your mentality. But I knew that was possible.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

I wonder if you know this: You are a very mild version of what exists in
every newsgroup: The lowest common denominator. The nadir by which those
of your ilk are gauged within the few groups you successfully haunt.
Compared to some others, you are doddering little old lady sending out
perfumed letters, polite thank-you notes and invitations to afternoon tea.
The only people you have any hope of insulting are the ultra newcomers and
they catch on fast. Most who respond to you, do it for fun; just like me
and just as you are attempting to shock and annoy for fun. So have some
more!

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:40:11 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> ><blichh>
> >
> >> Go back to Iraq
> >>
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >"Terrorists, foreigners and Iraq." Yours is a range to small to guage by
> >ordinary means, but at least you've found your niche.
> >
> >Next.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
> >
>
>
> Also got your number!
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Are you old enough to remember penny arcades? They were amusement parlors
with penny operated games and novelty machines. The penny arcade I remember
best, had a machine that would dispense "fortunes." These fortunes were
always crude, off-color (by the standards of that era) insults. People who
weren't prepared were a little shocked and only mildly amused if at all, but
many of them came back for more penny insults. I don't remember the name of
the machine, but it should have been called SpeedByrd.

By the way, I read your amusing little note about posting in duplicate. I
found it on microsoft.public.simulators Re: 'A strange thing.' It seems
Neil Baird posted the same message: "Well said Capt" twice to the same
person: CaptK and you couldn't resist the opportunity to go to work on Baird
for that egregious sin. In case you have forgotten (after all, it was five
days ago), here's a reminder:

The Speedbird" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:14:29 GMT, "Neil Baird" >
wrote:
>
> >Well said Capt.
> >
> >"CaptK" <back@bobs> wrote in message
> ...
> >> On 28 Oct 2003 08:16:17 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>" >
> >> took BOTH hands out of his pants to write:
> >>
> >> >You ARE wrong! About so many things! It's nice the people of AZ
have
> >your approval to make comment!
> >> >Get the **** out of here, you disease-spreading vermin!
> >>
> >> > SpeedBore AsS
> >>
> >> Speeddoorknob the CyberStalker! How about YOU leave, Faggotbreath!
> >
>
> You'd better learn how to post, dickbag. All your **** is in duplicate.
Either do it right or get lost!
> Better still, Get lost anyway, virus-spreading turd!
>
> SpeedByrd PhD

Now that was funny. The reason it was funny, is that you performed the same
awsome task right here on this thread; and only a few hours ago!

You posted the same dimwitted response:

> >> Go back to Iraq
> >>
> >> The SpeedByrd :>

twice today, each time addressed to the same person: me.

Check it out


Kallijaa

[kalijaa]

"BumpMart" <Back@home> wrote in message
...
> On 2 Nov 2003 10:56:12 -0600, Speedbyyrd > wrote:
>
> >Go back to Iraq
> >
> > The SpeedByrd :>
>
> Crawl back under the toilet, SpeedTwit.

You may remember SpeedByrd going after Neil Baird a few days ago for posting
duplicate responses to CaptK on microsoft.public.simulators re: A strange
thing. Well, it seems the SpeedByrd made his own duplicate postings today.
His "Go back to Iraq" was posted to me twice today and at about the same
time. Two duplicate responses to two different messages within this thread.
Would you attribute that to laziness or stupidity?

It would amount to nothing but for his recent flame job on the same subject.

Kalijaa

[Al Denelsbeck]

"kalijaa" > wrote in
:

>
> "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> . 6...
>
>
> This is the third response to this messsage. The first two have yet
> to appear on the thread. The problem is probably on my end.
> Otherwise, they may eventually trickle down, but I'm not waiting for
> that.
>
> With respect to this garbage:
>
>> Pretty scattered behavior for someone who claims to
>> be pursuing some kind of 'research', and research, moreover, that
>> nobody would really give a damn about.
>>
>
> Al, you are either dyslectic, an imbecile or a liar. Most likely, you
> are a combination of at least two of those. Your implication that I
> mentioned "study" or claimed to be pursuing some kind of research, is
> a lie. You, who on 10/25/03 posted: "Since you're offering this so
> comfortably, you undoubtedly have a reputable source at hand that
> backs up your claims. So trot it out. Because I'm telling you right
> now you're full of ****," now have a first rate opportunity to show us
> how its done. The "reputable source at hand" is right in front of
> you. Your task will be easy if you're telling the truth and impossible
> if you're lying. Search the thread, find the message where I
> mentioned study or research, repost the message here and prove me a
> liar, or fail to do so and prove yourself to be a pathetic fraud who
> wound up hoisted on his own petard and an ass who foolishly draws
> attention to himself with bluff and bluster.
>
> Your bluff has been called.

Mmmmmmm, yeah, or what? If I don't provide you with this, what are
you gonna do, run around in even more circles dodging the issue? Try to
deflect it, yet again, onto another track to hide the fact that you haven't
a clue what the hell you're spouting about?

Since you like pulling up the old stuff, pull up the post where I
invited you to give a source, any source, for your ramblings. Remember that
one? You should - it was the one that sent you scurrying. Still haven't
seen an answer to that one, and now you want to make demands of me? Quite
amusing.

I've served my purpose. A little pushing caused you to find a
surprising amount of ways to avoid actually providing any real info, which
has demonstrated your real worth to the rest of the group. But it appears I
could have saved the effort, since you immediately involved yourself in an
infantile game of grab-ass with SpEdByrd, so if THAT doesn't classify you,
I'm not sure what would...

Wanna have the last word? Knock yourself out - it won't change the
damage you've already done to yourself ;-)


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:00:38 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:40:11 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> ><blichh>
> >> >
> >> >> Go back to Iraq
> >> >>
> >> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >> >
> >> >"Terrorists, foreigners and Iraq." Yours is a range to small to guage
by
> >> >ordinary means, but at least you've found your niche.
> >> >
> >> >Next.
> >> >
> >> >Kalijaa
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Also got your number!
> >>
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >Are you old enough to remember penny arcades? They were amusement parlors
> >with penny operated games and novelty machines. The penny arcade I
remember
> >best, had a machine that would dispense "fortunes." These fortunes were
> >always crude, off-color (by the standards of that era) insults. People
who
> >weren't prepared were a little shocked and only mildly amused if at all,
but
> >many of them came back for more penny insults. I don't remember the name
of
> >the machine, but it should have been called SpeedByrd.
> >
> >By the way, I read your amusing little note about posting in duplicate.
I
> >found it on microsoft.public.simulators Re: 'A strange thing.' It seems
> >Neil Baird posted the same message: "Well said Capt" twice to the same
> >person: CaptK and you couldn't resist the opportunity to go to work on
Baird
> >for that egregious sin. In case you have forgotten (after all, it was
five
> >days ago), here's a reminder:
> >
> >The Speedbird" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:14:29 GMT, "Neil Baird"
>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> >Well said Capt.
> >> >
> >> >"CaptK" <back@bobs> wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On 28 Oct 2003 08:16:17 -0600, "Dr. Speedbyrd :>"
>
> >> >> took BOTH hands out of his pants to write:
> >> >>
> >> >> >You ARE wrong! About so many things! It's nice the people of AZ
> >have
> >> >your approval to make comment!
> >> >> >Get the **** out of here, you disease-spreading vermin!
> >> >>
> >> >> > SpeedBore AsS
> >> >>
> >> >> Speeddoorknob the CyberStalker! How about YOU leave, Faggotbreath!
> >> >
> >>
> >> You'd better learn how to post, dickbag. All your **** is in
duplicate.
> >Either do it right or get lost!
> >> Better still, Get lost anyway, virus-spreading turd!
> >>
> >> SpeedByrd PhD
> >
> >Now that was funny. The reason it was funny, is that you performed the
same
> >awsome task right here on this thread; and only a few hours ago!
> >
> >You posted the same dimwitted response:
> >
> >> >> Go back to Iraq
> >> >>
> >> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >twice today, each time addressed to the same person: me.
> >
> >Check it out
> >
> >
> >Kallijaa
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Baird is off limits to you. The story there is far over your head and
you're entitled to know nothing more
> about that exchange. He's a pet project that you're not privy to.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

An interesting delusion.

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:21:27 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"BumpMart" <Back@home> wrote in message
> ...
> >> On 2 Nov 2003 10:56:12 -0600, Speedbyyrd > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Go back to Iraq
> >> >
> >> > The SpeedByrd :>
> >>
> >> Crawl back under the toilet, SpeedTwit.
> >
> >You may remember SpeedByrd going after Neil Baird a few days ago for
posting
> >duplicate responses to CaptK on microsoft.public.simulators re: A strange
> >thing. Well, it seems the SpeedByrd made his own duplicate postings
today.
> >His "Go back to Iraq" was posted to me twice today and at about the same
> >time. Two duplicate responses to two different messages within this
thread.
> >Would you attribute that to laziness or stupidity?
> >
> >It would amount to nothing but for his recent flame job on the same
subject.
> >
> >Kalijaa
> >
>
>
> You best remember what I said about Baird. There's a reason for
everything, but you're not invited to the
> inner sanctum of this topic. Be gone now, Evil One.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

I could be lazy and just say "An interesting delusion" again (because it
really is an interesting delusion) or I could alter it a bit and say, "Yet
another interesting delusion," but that would still be repititious (wouldn't
it be repititious SpeedByrd?) and it would be wrong to be repititious and so
I don't want to be repititious. Of course, neither do I want to go on and
on and on and on and on and on about being repititios, because that would be
being repititious too.

I especially don't want to be repititious around you SpeedByrd, because you
might flame me for being repititious.

Are you having fun yet, I say having fun yet SpeedByrd?

Kalijaa

[kalijaa]

"Chris Norris" > wrote in message
...
>
> >Do you also have the bumps on what passes for your head perused from time
to
> >time?
> >
>
> Yes, but that has to be better than the rectal exam you enjoy (_o_)
>

At last, Chris Norris opens up and reveals his inner self and the seat of
his being.

[kalijaa]

"Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
. 8...
> "kalijaa" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Al Denelsbeck" > wrote in message
> > . 6...
> >
> >
> > This is the third response to this messsage. The first two have yet
> > to appear on the thread. The problem is probably on my end.
> > Otherwise, they may eventually trickle down, but I'm not waiting for
> > that.
> >
> > With respect to this garbage:
> >
> >> Pretty scattered behavior for someone who claims to
> >> be pursuing some kind of 'research', and research, moreover, that
> >> nobody would really give a damn about.
> >>
> >
> > Al, you are either dyslectic, an imbecile or a liar. Most likely, you
> > are a combination of at least two of those. Your implication that I
> > mentioned "study" or claimed to be pursuing some kind of research, is
> > a lie. You, who on 10/25/03 posted: "Since you're offering this so
> > comfortably, you undoubtedly have a reputable source at hand that
> > backs up your claims. So trot it out. Because I'm telling you right
> > now you're full of ****," now have a first rate opportunity to show us
> > how its done. The "reputable source at hand" is right in front of
> > you. Your task will be easy if you're telling the truth and impossible
> > if you're lying. Search the thread, find the message where I
> > mentioned study or research, repost the message here and prove me a
> > liar, or fail to do so and prove yourself to be a pathetic fraud who
> > wound up hoisted on his own petard and an ass who foolishly draws
> > attention to himself with bluff and bluster.
> >
> > Your bluff has been called.
>
> Mmmmmmm, yeah, or what? If I don't provide you with this, what are
> you gonna do, run around in even more circles dodging the issue? Try to
> deflect it, yet again, onto another track to hide the fact that you
haven't
> a clue what the hell you're spouting about?
>
> Since you like pulling up the old stuff, pull up the post where I
> invited you to give a source, any source, for your ramblings. Remember
that
> one?

Yes, I remember that one. I gave your invitation all the consideration it
deserved. I ignored it.

You should - it was the one that sent you scurrying.

Did it? Then why are you still sending me these sweet tidings?

Still haven't
> seen an answer to that one, and now you want to make demands of me? Quite
> amusing.
>

I demand nothing, but call you liar. I invite your defense, but expect wind
instead.

> I've served my purpose.

Yes, you have served a purpose. Liars unmasked prove the converse of their
thesis.

> A little pushing caused you to find a
> surprising amount of ways to avoid actually providing any real info, which
> has demonstrated your real worth to the rest of the group.

The information proving that you are a liar is in the record of this thread.
Unfortunately for you, the false 'information' forming the basis for your
lie only appears in your message.

> But it appears I
> could have saved the effort, since you immediately involved yourself in an
> infantile game of grab-ass with SpEdByrd, so if THAT doesn't classify you,
> I'm not sure what would...
>

That's a fair example of how you serve another purpose. You're presumption
that SpeedByrd is in a class beneath yours, perfectly illustrates your
imbecility. Gad flys rank high above liars.

> Wanna have the last word? Knock yourself out - it won't change the
> damage you've already done to yourself ;-)
>

I distinctly detect the sound of scurrying. Is it a bug? A rat? A liar?

Is that you . .
> Al
?

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...

<nozh smaj kapop>>

> I don't talk to terrorist scum. Go away.
>

> The SpeedByrd :>

From what I've read of your drivelings, you talk to no one else.

Is it really true that you and Al are twins? He speaks highly of you, but I
do detect a hint of sibling rivalry.

Kalijaa

[Big777]

On 3 Nov 2003 23:45:49 -0600, Speedbyyrd > wrote:

>You an that garbage terrorist should get a room together.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Hell, YOU get rooms with guys all the time! Right, SpeedQueer!

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Nothing to do with him. Together with you, air is fouled on this ng. Go
back to 'terror land'.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

You're a matched set.

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:48:36 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
<>
>
> You're a scuzzbag A-Rab
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Your fadder's moustache

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:35:06 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:

> Shut up.
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

Good idea. Show us how it's done.

Kalijaa.

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:35:47 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:35:06 -0800, "kalijaa" > wrote:
> >
> >> Shut up.
> >>
> >> The SpeedByrd :>
> >
> >Good idea. Show us how it's done.
> >
> >Kalijaa.
> >
>
>
> You first, A-Rab!!
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

No. Nope, won't do it, won't do it

[kalijaa]

"Speedbyyrd" > wrote in message
...
</> You'll do what you'e told, A-Rab scum!!! Now back into your box!
>
> The SpeedByrd :>

nix