MS FS 2004 ---minimum equipment for IFR

[Gerald Sylvester]

I just got my PPL and heard from some ATP rated friends that using
MS FS 2004 could help a bit for getting down some of the navigation
techniques for IFR. I figure for $50 that is about 25 minutes in
a IFR GPS equipped plane.

What is the minimum equipment *really* required to use MS FS 2004?
Right now I have a new Dell Latitude laptop. I have a mouse
and that is about it. Joysticks? Foot pedals (cost?)? I don't want
it to replace flight since I can just get in a real plane but I have
heard from many people that it is quite good. I want
it more for the instrument training.

I have no idea about this since the last MS FS I had was back when I
had an IBM PC jr. (no joke).

replies will be directed to: rec.aviation.simulators.

Gerald Sylvester

[Dallas]

Minimum? I'll let some one else answer that.

But make this mental note: Somehow Microsoft released FS2004 to match the
state of the art in personal computing on the very month it was released.
In other words, to be able to "max all the slider to the right" and have it
run well, would require the purchase of everything that was new at that
minute. i.e. 3 Ghz processor, PC3200 ram, and a $199.00 to $499.00 graphics
card. Many of us spent upwards of $700 to upgrade our computers for this
$50 program.

As you start to slide the settings to the left you can make it run on older
equipment. The trade off is a loss of realism in weather and out the window
detail.

That said, I'll let everyone else fill in the details.

Dallas

Oh, personal opinion: Using FS2004 as a PCATD would seem to require rudder
pedals.

"Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> I just got my PPL and heard from some ATP rated friends that using
> MS FS 2004 could help a bit for getting down some of the navigation
> techniques for IFR. I figure for $50 that is about 25 minutes in
> a IFR GPS equipped plane.
>
> What is the minimum equipment *really* required to use MS FS 2004?
> Right now I have a new Dell Latitude laptop. I have a mouse
> and that is about it. Joysticks? Foot pedals (cost?)? I don't want
> it to replace flight since I can just get in a real plane but I have
> heard from many people that it is quite good. I want
> it more for the instrument training.
>
> I have no idea about this since the last MS FS I had was back when I
> had an IBM PC jr. (no joke).
>
> replies will be directed to: rec.aviation.simulators.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>

[Dashi]

"Dallas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Minimum? I'll let some one else answer that.

You'll need at least six inches but the way Nomen is talking about you, I
doubt that you have an inch.

Christ, even Dallas is probably better qualified than you.

*PLONK

Dashi

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:11:55 GMT, Gerald Sylvester
> wrote:

>
>I just got my PPL and heard from some ATP rated friends that using
>MS FS 2004 could help a bit for getting down some of the navigation
>techniques for IFR. I figure for $50 that is about 25 minutes in
>a IFR GPS equipped plane.
>
>What is the minimum equipment *really* required to use MS FS 2004?
>Right now I have a new Dell Latitude laptop. I have a mouse
>and that is about it. Joysticks? Foot pedals (cost?)? I don't want
>it to replace flight since I can just get in a real plane but I have
>heard from many people that it is quite good. I want
>it more for the instrument training.
>
>I have no idea about this since the last MS FS I had was back when I
>had an IBM PC jr. (no joke).
>
>replies will be directed to: rec.aviation.simulators.
>
>Gerald Sylvester
Try Microsoft.public.simulators or rec.aviation.simulators as you'll
get more technical replies but include your laptop spec.

My 1.5GHz Homebuilt PC is good for FS2004 (frame rates near 20's) but
the 1.3GHz Compaq N115 does not have a fast enough video card (frame
rate around 5) and is useless. Can only run FS98 with any realism!

Either are progs useful for IFR practice.

David
David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

[John T]

"Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
link.net
>
> I just got my PPL and heard from some ATP rated friends that using
> MS FS 2004 could help a bit for getting down some of the navigation
> techniques for IFR.

In my experience, MSFS is good for that and instrument scan (once you
understand proper scanning techniques). The feel isn't quite right for a
good substitute for actual flight even with a yoke and pedals, so you're
right not to expect it to replace flight time.

I use it with nothing more than a force feedback joystick (mine's a MS
Sidewinder 2). Assuming your laptop can handle the graphics and has a USB
port for a USB-based joystick, you should be OK.


Spend some time with an instructor in a FRASCA or other training simulator
to learn the basics of instrument scan and basic instrument techniques
before dedicating a lot of time to MSFS. Otherwise, you may learn a lot of
bad habits from MSFS that you'll have to spend money unlearning in the
plane. :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
____________________

[Blanche]

Gerald:

The benefit of MSFS for IFR training is not so much the aircraft
and controls but learning the scan of instruments, working the
avionics (vor for victor airways and ILS, adf & dme, gps, etc) and
getting familiar with the process. Start doing the IFR stuff with
VMC mode (see where you're going) then go to IMC mode when you
want more challenge. I'm using a joystick, no big deal. If I want
to practice with an airplane, I go out to the airport. When
practicing IFR I really don't care that much about the handling
characteristics of the aircraft (other than making sure I meet
the correct speeds without crashing).

Remember, for IFR practice, the goal is scan and avionics. Then
when you get into the aircraft, you're comfy with that. But make
sure you have a correct/good scan!

[Gerald Sylvester]

Thanks everyone. Sounds like it is a go. For the joystick I'll
probably just spin by Fry's to check them out. The people here
said the same thing as my friend's regarding the instrument scan
(I've got a whole 5 hours of it during my PPL, I'm a pro
already.....<grin>). Tracking VOR's is easy. ADF same.
Will also help with ILS, HSI (none of the planes I flew had them)
and other techniques. I'll let you know how it works on my
1.8 GHz laptop.

thanks
Gerald


Gerald Sylvester wrote:
>
> I just got my PPL and heard from some ATP rated friends that using
> MS FS 2004 could help a bit for getting down some of the navigation
> techniques for IFR. I figure for $50 that is about 25 minutes in
> a IFR GPS equipped plane.
>
> What is the minimum equipment *really* required to use MS FS 2004?
> Right now I have a new Dell Latitude laptop. I have a mouse
> and that is about it. Joysticks? Foot pedals (cost?)? I don't want
> it to replace flight since I can just get in a real plane but I have
> heard from many people that it is quite good. I want
> it more for the instrument training.
>
> I have no idea about this since the last MS FS I had was back when I
> had an IBM PC jr. (no joke).
>
> replies will be directed to: rec.aviation.simulators.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>

[Dashi]

Good advice but it's wasted on a moron like Sylvester and his crony Dallas!

With an idiot like that flying an aircraft it would be a good idea to take
up sailing.

Dashi


> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:11:55 GMT, Gerald Sylvester
> > wrote:
> Try Microsoft.public.simulators or rec.aviation.simulators as you'll
> get more technical replies but include your laptop spec.
>
> My 1.5GHz Homebuilt PC is good for FS2004 (frame rates near 20's) but
> the 1.3GHz Compaq N115 does not have a fast enough video card (frame
> rate around 5) and is useless. Can only run FS98 with any realism!
>
> Either are progs useful for IFR practice.
>
> David
> David
>
> Piper Warrior G-BHJO
> Scotland, UK
>
> E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

[Judah]

If you just got your PPL, you might want to spend some time flying VFR
before jumping into the IFR training.

From my experience, Flight Simulator can definitely help you with your
navigation techniques, but it almost definitely will NOT significantly
help you learn to precisely control the plane, regardless of whether you
use a yoke or the keyboard. It's just not real enough. At least that's
how it's been for me.

Where it helped me most was with VOR tracking, holding patterns,and the
like. When you read the books and see videos and all that, it kinda makes
sense. But when you open up the Map view, and turn on the feature that
draws the red line over your track, it makes a WHOLE lot of sense very
quickly.

The key is (IMHO), you first need to be able to keep the plane on heading
and altitude without requiring too much attention before you can start
also thinking about hold entries or approaches and following bouncing
needles and reporting positions and such...


Beyond that, for what it's worth, I wouldn't even worry about using 2004.
I use 98 and it works great. But 2002 has some ATC communication built in
I think, so that might be worth something. I don't really know about
2004, but MS generally has a policy of intentionally building new
versions that are bigger and hungrier than previous versions just to
force you to upgrade the computer and OS. So if you're not sure you have
the minimum equipment, you might consider finding an older version on
EBay or something.

Just my 2 cents.


Gerald Sylvester > wrote in
link.net:

>
> I just got my PPL and heard from some ATP rated friends that using
> MS FS 2004 could help a bit for getting down some of the navigation
> techniques for IFR. I figure for $50 that is about 25 minutes in
> a IFR GPS equipped plane.
>
> What is the minimum equipment *really* required to use MS FS 2004?
> Right now I have a new Dell Latitude laptop. I have a mouse
> and that is about it. Joysticks? Foot pedals (cost?)? I don't want
> it to replace flight since I can just get in a real plane but I have
> heard from many people that it is quite good. I want
> it more for the instrument training.
>
> I have no idea about this since the last MS FS I had was back when I
> had an IBM PC jr. (no joke).
>
> replies will be directed to: rec.aviation.simulators.
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>
>

[Dashi]

The only place that he would be welcome is : alt. family.tree.doesn't.fork

Dashi

"An Metet" > wrote in message
ster...
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Speedbyrd > squawked:
>
> >Maybe YOU should. You're the one that seems to have the problems. Hiding
> >behind a remailer.
> >
> > The Speedbyrd :>
>
> Dude, you sure get around. First everyone killfiles you in alt.video.dvd,
last week you get
> laughed out of alt.rec.guns, and now you're here. Keep trying, Dude. Maybe
you'll find someplace
> that won't see you as a steaming turd that needs to be stepped over.
>
>
>
>

[Geoffrey Barnes]

Before I started flying for real, I was absolutely besotted with FS 2002.
But now that I've experienced the real thing, I almost never even fire it up
anymore. My club has a nice sim setup, with a yoke and rudder pedals, and I
have played with FS 2004 on that machine. Having rudder pedals is almost
certainly a necessity for anyone who wants to fly it for training purposes.
Witout pedals, it's really just an elaborate video game.

Good luck!

[Dallas]

Dashi,

Do you have me confused with someone else?

If not, I would be interested to find out why you are saying things like
this about me.

Dallas

"Dashi" > wrote in message
...
> Good advice but it's wasted on a moron like Sylvester and his crony
Dallas!

[Dashi]

My mistake, sorry Dallas.

Dashi

"Dallas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Dashi,
>
> Do you have me confused with someone else?
>
> If not, I would be interested to find out why you are saying things like
> this about me.
>
> Dallas
>
> "Dashi" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Good advice but it's wasted on a moron like Sylvester and his crony
> Dallas!
>
>

[Dallas]

Accepted.

Thanks for responding.

Dallas

"Dashi" > wrote in message
...
> My mistake, sorry Dallas.
>
> Dashi
>
> "Dallas" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Dashi,
> >
> > Do you have me confused with someone else?
> >
> > If not, I would be interested to find out why you are saying things like
> > this about me.
> >
> > Dallas
> >
> > "Dashi" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Good advice but it's wasted on a moron like Sylvester and his crony
> > Dallas!
> >
> >
>
>

[MH]

As a MS flight sim pilot for the past many years and revisions I can highly
recommend FS2004. Yes FS2002 is probably cheaper but i find that 2004 runs
much better on equavelant hardware and includes much more realistic GPS
units.

Figure for the cost of less than 1 hour dual, you can fly holds and
approaches until you're sick and with the new version you can even do it in
"real" weather. (the sim updates the weather off the Internet.)

Yes it's no replacement for real flying but it sure is cheaper and warmer
than the real thing right now :)

I use a MS force feedback joystick (twist the handle for rudder) and it's
okay. I'd consider that to be a minimum (A joystick with twist rudder)
Otherwise the sky's the limit. I've heard of some setups that take a whole
room to run. Of course that's not necessary just to shoot approaches.

my .02 worth, YMMV.

Mike



"Gerald Sylvester" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
<snip>>
> What is the minimum equipment *really* required to use MS FS 2004?
> Right now I have a new Dell Latitude laptop. I have a mouse
> and that is about it. Joysticks? Foot pedals (cost?)? I don't want
> it to replace flight since I can just get in a real plane but I have
> heard from many people that it is quite good. I want
> it more for the instrument training.
> <snip>