Near Vertical Takeoff

[Roy Clark, \B6\]

Skip the ad when you can to get to the video - looks like Grant County International Airport, near Moses Lake, Washington.

http://www.wsj.com/video/near-vertical-takeoff-in-preparation-for-paris-air-show/80AE2BE2-7C7A-4C78-81B7-70DDBA8F2F54.html

[Bruce Hoult]

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 7:02:40 AM UTC+3, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:
> Skip the ad when you can to get to the video - looks like Grant County International Airport, near Moses Lake, Washington.
>
> http://www.wsj.com/video/near-vertical-takeoff-in-preparation-for-paris-air-show/80AE2BE2-7C7A-4C78-81B7-70DDBA8F2F54.html

In reality, I believe it's around 50 degrees.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 5:22:34 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 7:02:40 AM UTC+3, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:
> > Skip the ad when you can to get to the video - looks like Grant County International Airport, near Moses Lake, Washington.
> >
> > http://www.wsj.com/video/near-vertical-takeoff-in-preparation-for-paris-air-show/80AE2BE2-7C7A-4C78-81B7-70DDBA8F2F54.html
>
> In reality, I believe it's around 50 degrees.

Not something you would see with passengers inside!
I would love to see a side view of that climb, I wonder how fast it's shedding speed?

Nice wing bend though. ;-)

[Dan Marotta]

From CNN: "Hero pilot saves the day."
From a passenger interviewed in the terminal: "We almost died!"

I can do that in my glider, though not for quite as long...

On 6/13/2015 6:13 AM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 5:22:34 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
>> On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 7:02:40 AM UTC+3, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:
>>> Skip the ad when you can to get to the video - looks like Grant County International Airport, near Moses Lake, Washington.
>>>
>>> http://www.wsj.com/video/near-vertical-takeoff-in-preparation-for-paris-air-show/80AE2BE2-7C7A-4C78-81B7-70DDBA8F2F54.html
>> In reality, I believe it's around 50 degrees.
> Not something you would see with passengers inside!
> I would love to see a side view of that climb, I wonder how fast it's shedding speed?
>
> Nice wing bend though. ;-)

--
Dan Marotta

[PBA]

LOL @ DAn.
Awesome! Goes to show without all the ballast (human bodies) these planes have plenty of extra power.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 6:27:10 PM UTC+3, PBA wrote:
> LOL @ DAn.
> Awesome! Goes to show without all the ballast (human bodies) these planes have plenty of extra power.

There's also the regulation that large twins have to be able to continue a takeoff from V1 [1] on a single engine at max all-up weight and the given runway length, wind, temp etc.

If you actually have twice that trust, as you usually do, it's jam.

I note that the A380 has an *extremely* leisurely climb out compared to the modern twins. It only has to have 33% more than the bare minimum power, compared to 100% more for twins.

[1] if an engine fails below V1 then you stop. If above V1 then you continue, but you must accelerate to at least V2 before actually lifting off.

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

Yup - that's how they calculate Balanced Field Length. IIRC it's where the distance to get to V1 (takeoff decision speed), abort and stop equals the distance to continue the takeoff on one engine to 50' altitude. After V1 it takes more distance to stop than to continue on one engine.

9B

[Dan Marotta]

With all that extra thrust, we routinely set reduced power for takeoff.
We had a chart in the performance section of the flight manual for just
a thing. It considered runway length, density altitude, gross weight,
winds, etc. Should an engine fail, the remaining engine(s) would be
advanced to max power.

On 6/14/2015 10:59 AM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 6:27:10 PM UTC+3, PBA wrote:
>> LOL @ DAn.
>> Awesome! Goes to show without all the ballast (human bodies) these planes have plenty of extra power.
> There's also the regulation that large twins have to be able to continue a takeoff from V1 [1] on a single engine at max all-up weight and the given runway length, wind, temp etc.
>
> If you actually have twice that trust, as you usually do, it's jam.
>
> I note that the A380 has an *extremely* leisurely climb out compared to the modern twins. It only has to have 33% more than the bare minimum power, compared to 100% more for twins.
>
> [1] if an engine fails below V1 then you stop. If above V1 then you continue, but you must accelerate to at least V2 before actually lifting off.

--
Dan Marotta

[GM]

> I can do that in my glider, though not for quite as long...

Yes you can! Do a winch launch on one of those specially modified European winches that use over 11,000ft of line, hold that climb for 2 minutes and end up at over 4,500ft. I bet the jet cannot do that!
Uli

[Dan Marotta]

Wow!!! I'd love to try that!

On 6/14/2015 7:36 PM, GM wrote:
>> I can do that in my glider, though not for quite as long...
> Yes you can! Do a winch launch on one of those specially modified European winches that use over 11,000ft of line, hold that climb for 2 minutes and end up at over 4,500ft. I bet the jet cannot do that!
> Uli

--
Dan Marotta

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 20:01:05 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

> Wow!!! I'd love to try that!
>
> On 6/14/2015 7:36 PM, GM wrote:
>>> I can do that in my glider, though not for quite as long...
>> Yes you can! Do a winch launch on one of those specially modified
>> European winches that use over 11,000ft of line, hold that climb for 2
>> minutes and end up at over 4,500ft. I bet the jet cannot do that!
>> Uli

Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VlRd9-wxQI

Note that the instruments are metric: climb rate in m/s, height in m,
airspeed in kph.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Mike the Strike]

Released at 1390 meters, 4560 feet!

Mike

[John Carlyle]

I like the outside loop!

[Graeme Cant[_2_]]

On 15/06/2015 11:36, GM wrote:
>
>> I can do that in my glider, though not for quite as long...
>
> Yes you can! Do a winch launch on one of those specially modified
> European winches that use over 11,000ft of line, hold that climb for
> 2 minutes and end up at over 4,500ft. I bet the jet cannot do that!
> Uli
>

What - 2250fpm? Most modern twinjets do that easily. A full thrust
takeoff in an empty 747SP cracks 4000fpm. Even if you allow 30 seconds
for the takeoff roll - about right at light weights - 4500 feet two
minutes after brake release would be easy.

OTOH, I'm stunned at the lack of scepticism about the video. The climb
will be nowhere near vertical. 150kts indicated is 15000fpm if
vertical. It's nowhere near that. The climb is likely about 5000fpm -
50kts in glider-speak. That's about 30 deg climb angle. Perspective
foreshortening due to long focal length lenses is a wonderful thing.
That's how all those aeroplanes survive 60 deg drift landings in HKG on
those Youtube videos. :)

GC