Use of ridge lift for tow - review of procedure/protocol

[son_of_flubber]

What are the best practices for using ridge lift when towing?

What is different when the ridge altitude is increasing?

Should the tow plane approach the ridge perpendicular at the saddle (rather than at a 45)? What if circumstances force you to release at this point (pointed straight at the ridge, close and below)?


Is it okay to tow below the top of the ridge and utilize slope lift? (With the wind coming from the right or the left?)

Assuming that the wind is coming from the left, is it okay to release, uncrab and drift downwind to clear towplane rather than circling right and ending up low and on the leeward side of the ridge.

If you're above the ridge and the wind is coming from the right, is it okay to release and make the towplane go onto the leeward sink side of the ridge?

Other things to keep in mind?

[Bob Pasker]

When I've released below a left ridgeline, I say to the towpilot over the radio, "I'm going to release below the ridgeline. Go ahead and turn right. We'll maintain visual separation."

On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 10:38:57 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> What are the best practices for using ridge lift when towing?
>
> What is different when the ridge altitude is increasing?
>
> Should the tow plane approach the ridge perpendicular at the saddle (rather than at a 45)? What if circumstances force you to release at this point (pointed straight at the ridge, close and below)?
>
>
> Is it okay to tow below the top of the ridge and utilize slope lift? (With the wind coming from the right or the left?)
>
> Assuming that the wind is coming from the left, is it okay to release, uncrab and drift downwind to clear towplane rather than circling right and ending up low and on the leeward side of the ridge.
>
> If you're above the ridge and the wind is coming from the right, is it okay to release and make the towplane go onto the leeward sink side of the ridge?
>
> Other things to keep in mind?

[Bill T]

We tow to the local small ridge, it is only 1500ft above airport elevation, so many do not release below ridge height. It is up to the tow pilot to approach the ridge safely and plan the turn to parallel the ridge. Most gliders will release and able to turn right based on our planned tow cours, nose into the wind, the tow will descend straight ahead, maybe slight left and correct back away from the ridge. For the tow to turn strong left over the top of the ridge into the back side rotor is a rough ride.

The key is the tow has to make sure he descends and remain well clear of ridge soaring gliders. Years ago we had a mid air between tow and the glider he just released. The tow flew down the ridge with power back but with the lift had not descended, turned back along the ridge thinking he had descended when he had not. The glider just released was below the cowling out of the field of view. Both landed safely.

We now train that the glider must never lose sight of tow for any release until he is assured with visual confirmation that Tow is below the glider.
BillT

If there are other gliders on the ridge, tow will normally parallel the lift farther out from the track the gliders are using and tow higher, allowing the glider to choose when to release and maneuver into the ridge lift.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 12:38:57 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> What are the best practices for using ridge lift when towing?
>
> What is different when the ridge altitude is increasing?
>
> Should the tow plane approach the ridge perpendicular at the saddle (rather than at a 45)? What if circumstances force you to release at this point (pointed straight at the ridge, close and below)?
>
>
> Is it okay to tow below the top of the ridge and utilize slope lift? (With the wind coming from the right or the left?)
>
> Assuming that the wind is coming from the left, is it okay to release, uncrab and drift downwind to clear towplane rather than circling right and ending up low and on the leeward side of the ridge.
>
> If you're above the ridge and the wind is coming from the right, is it okay to release and make the towplane go onto the leeward sink side of the ridge?
>
> Other things to keep in mind?

It makes little sense to fly straight at the ridge once the glider and tug get into lift. Turning parallel before the peak allows gradual engagement of the ridge lift.
Obviously the tug will need to turn away from the ridge on release. The glider pilot needs to keep this in mind. Tug may need to fly straight to get spacing before turning.
UH

[Johan Pretorius]

If you know there's lift on the ridge (other gliders are already there, climbing before getting away from a local ridge) then just release before you get to the ridge and fly there yourself.

If you don't know there's lift then it will be because there also isn't a traffic issue - so get towed into the lift, once you know there's good lift then release and slow down. Towing happens at faster than your best glide, so slowing down to best glide (or whatever is safe for the ridge you're on) will cause separation to build up.

In the second scenario, the potential problem I can see is if the ridge lift is too rough for you to be comfortable about slowing down after release. In that case, either release and turn away from the ridge into calmer air or (better) let it take you past the lift, release as you would normally, turn around and come back as fast as you like.

[Tango Eight]

OP flies at *Sugarbush*, where they have been towing gliders into ridge lift for roughly a half century.

30 seconds of conversation with tow pilot is better than 30 hours of wasted time on r.a.s.

-T8 (& frequent tow pilot)

[son_of_flubber]

An interesting ridge tow. 1000 AGL, ridge on left, pull up, push down, release, and pull back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhozkvZSQ-Q&t=1m42s

[Bill T]

It's called a soft release, saves banging the Schweizer hook on release. At least he briefed his pax on what he was going to do.
They can be in ridge lift at 500ft at Dillingham.

BillT

[[email protected]]

"soft release" is a poor practice and not needed. It makes the release of the rope less positive, makes it much harder for the tug pilot to know the glider is off, and in extreme cases can leave enough slack to be a hazard.
Releasing from normal position, without excess tension beyond stable tow, does no harm to properly maintained Schweizer hooks.
Good example of RAS being a prime source for bad practices and misinformation.
UH

[Dan Marotta]

Us cranky tow pilots don't like a soft release very much. It wastes
time and fuel to be climbing merrily along with the glider gone. Do
that to me and you'll be charged for the altitude at which I realize
that you're no longer there. That is, unless you give me a radio call.

BTW, I had my first glider flight there on 5/3/86. Elmer let me fly the
entire flight; takeoff, tow, ridge, pattern, and landing. I was hooked!

:-D

On 7/1/2015 7:23 PM, Bill T wrote:
> It's called a soft release, saves banging the Schweizer hook on release. At least he briefed his pax on what he was going to do.
> They can be in ridge lift at 500ft at Dillingham.
>
> BillT

--
Dan Marotta

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> "soft release" is a poor practice and not needed. It makes the release of the rope less positive, makes it much harder for the tug pilot to know the glider is off, and in extreme cases can leave enough slack to be a hazard..
> Releasing from normal position, without excess tension beyond stable tow, does no harm to properly maintained Schweizer hooks.
> Good example of RAS being a prime source for bad practices and misinformation.
> UH

Ditto that. I had some guy show up at Blairstown one time for a field check.. At the assigned altitude, I suddenly find us diving at the towplane. I think I only got to "What the f..." before he released, at which point the rope passed within a couple of inches of my eyes in the back seat before pulling away. Seriously? It's a dangerous solution to a non-problem.

P3

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 8:50:14 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > "soft release" is a poor practice and not needed. It makes the release of the rope less positive, makes it much harder for the tug pilot to know the glider is off, and in extreme cases can leave enough slack to be a hazard.
> > Releasing from normal position, without excess tension beyond stable tow, does no harm to properly maintained Schweizer hooks.
> > Good example of RAS being a prime source for bad practices and misinformation.
> > UH
>
> Ditto that. I had some guy show up at Blairstown one time for a field check. At the assigned altitude, I suddenly find us diving at the towplane. I think I only got to "What the f..." before he released, at which point the rope passed within a couple of inches of my eyes in the back seat before pulling away. Seriously? It's a dangerous solution to a non-problem..
>
> P3

Ditto ditto that! Had a young student on an early solo flight in a 2-33 (used to a heavy IP in the back) try a soft release on a pattern tow and just about kite me into the ground - he got talked to, you can be sure.

And soft releases off a Tost are REALLY stupid!

And while we are venting, "slingshotting" at the top of a tow to get an extra 20 ft of altitude really gets me steamed, too....

Kirk
66

[Bill T]

UH , I didn't say it was proper, I said it is what he did.
BillT

[Cookie]

See section taken from PTS private glider, below..."normal tension"

We argued about the Schweizer tow hook before here on RAS....It is easy to make the hook such that it doesn't "bang" open...metal on metal...

One of the worst things you can do is "go high" on the tow pilot!

And slack rope is something to be avoided too...

And why all the crazy gyrations, when you have more import concerns during release?

People who try this, and don't do it correctly...really interesting!

I teach my students to be in good, smooth, steady position before release....if your not in good position or stable..don't release until you are!

Cookie










FAA-S-8081-22
1-10
Change 1 (9/1/10)
F. TASK: TOW RELEASE
REFERENCE: Soaring Flight Manual.
Objective.
To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to tow release,
including related safety factors.
2. Maintains high-tow position with normal towline tension.
3. Clears the area before releasing the towline.
4. Releases the towline and confirms release by observing the
tow
line.
5. Makes level or climbing







On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 10:19:01 AM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 8:50:14 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > "soft release" is a poor practice and not needed. It makes the release of the rope less positive, makes it much harder for the tug pilot to know the glider is off, and in extreme cases can leave enough slack to be a hazard.
> > > Releasing from normal position, without excess tension beyond stable tow, does no harm to properly maintained Schweizer hooks.
> > > Good example of RAS being a prime source for bad practices and misinformation.
> > > UH
> >
> > Ditto that. I had some guy show up at Blairstown one time for a field check. At the assigned altitude, I suddenly find us diving at the towplane.. I think I only got to "What the f..." before he released, at which point the rope passed within a couple of inches of my eyes in the back seat before pulling away. Seriously? It's a dangerous solution to a non-problem.
> >
> > P3
>
> Ditto ditto that! Had a young student on an early solo flight in a 2-33 (used to a heavy IP in the back) try a soft release on a pattern tow and just about kite me into the ground - he got talked to, you can be sure.
>
> And soft releases off a Tost are REALLY stupid!
>
> And while we are venting, "slingshotting" at the top of a tow to get an extra 20 ft of altitude really gets me steamed, too....
>
> Kirk
> 66

[Bill T]

Kirk, I had one recently rated pilot try that on me off tow. I saw it happening and I almost turned to the side of his zoom but decided not to make the situation worse.
I though of dropping the rope mid zoom, but did not want to loose two rings and all that new rope. I toughed it out, when he got off I told him on the radio to never do that again. When we were both on the ground I asked him about that maneuver and where he got the idea. He said it was something he read.

I told him we do not teach it, if I knew if him doing it again that would be his last flight at our club.

As for soft releases, when trained and done properly they are a non event.

BillT

[Cookie]

When we fly the SE ridge at Blairstown...IF...you know the ridge is working nicely...you only have to be towed to "get there"...height is almost meaningless...1000' or 1200' above the airport, (and below crest) is certainly doable and reasonably safe...although it is 3 miles back into a head wind if you decide to bail...

At Wurtsboro, the ridge is basically also the downwind leg for landing...I've released at 800' above the airport....you either go up in ridge lift, or if you don't, you just go down in the pattern! One day with a student, I got him to (reluctantly) release at 800', at the ridge...we flew straight along the ridge, after 10 miles we were at 3000'...

The craziest ridge tow I ever saw was at Harris Hill....The release was at 5'..

Yes, five feet above the airport!! The glider pilot hung on tow until the speed got up to about 70 or so...then released...flew down the runway..(it starts going down hill) and then off the cliff! Into the ridge lift and gone!

Of course in the old days, just north of Wurtsboro, they bungee launched off the ridge..maybe 2/3 of the way up. Today, at Ellenville, the hang gliders jump off at about the 1/2 way point...there is a good landing field below...so what could possibly go wrong?


Cookie






On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 12:38:57 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> What are the best practices for using ridge lift when towing?
>
> What is different when the ridge altitude is increasing?
>
> Should the tow plane approach the ridge perpendicular at the saddle (rather than at a 45)? What if circumstances force you to release at this point (pointed straight at the ridge, close and below)?
>
>
> Is it okay to tow below the top of the ridge and utilize slope lift? (With the wind coming from the right or the left?)
>
> Assuming that the wind is coming from the left, is it okay to release, uncrab and drift downwind to clear towplane rather than circling right and ending up low and on the leeward side of the ridge.
>
> If you're above the ridge and the wind is coming from the right, is it okay to release and make the towplane go onto the leeward sink side of the ridge?
>
> Other things to keep in mind?

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 8:26:56 PM UTC-4, Cookie wrote:

> The craziest ridge tow I ever saw was at Harris Hill....The release was at 5'..
>
> Yes, five feet above the airport!! The glider pilot hung on tow until the speed got up to about 70 or so...then released...flew down the runway..(it starts going down hill) and then off the cliff! Into the ridge lift and gone!

For the few readers that are unfamiliar with Harris Hill, there is an 'emergency runway' maintained 700 feet below the end of the primary runway.

Nice for PTOT3.

[Bob Pasker]

the only place where I have rented that practices soft releases is Estrella, in AZ. Its now on my checklist of "things to keep the check pilot happy," and ever other place wants a standard release. --bob

[[email protected]]

So true. After flying with Jason at Estrella I had check rides at two different soaring locations before renting and I used Jason's soft release technique. HEAVILY CRITICIZED by both CFIs for the soft release.
I have used it a couple of times during my private tows and have seen the towplane fly straight ahead for a couple miles before realizing that I was no longer on tow.

[Dan Marotta]

A so-called soft release is OK by me if I happen to be looking in the
mirror at the time of release but I will log your release height at the
point where I realize you're gone, not where you claim you got off.

There was an article in Soaring back in the 80s, I believe, which
discussed rope tension during tow. It's not very much for a glass
glider (<20 lb) and I wouldn't think more than 40 lb. or so for a drag
master (2-33). There's no harm in releasing at that tension. Why fly a
bunch of maneuvers just to get a little slack before releasing?

On 7/3/2015 8:32 AM, wrote:
> So true. After flying with Jason at Estrella I had check rides at two different soaring locations before renting and I used Jason's soft release technique. HEAVILY CRITICIZED by both CFIs for the soft release.
> I have used it a couple of times during my private tows and have seen the towplane fly straight ahead for a couple miles before realizing that I was no longer on tow.

--
Dan Marotta

[Bob Pasker]

Dan, you're the right guy to put a recording digital fish scale on a tow rope and give us an authoritative answer. --bob

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 8:01:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> A so-called soft release is OK by me if I happen to be looking in
> the mirror at the time of release but I will log your release height
> at the point where I realize you're gone, not where you claim you
> got off.
>
>
>
> There was an article in Soaring back in the 80s, I believe, which
> discussed rope tension during tow.* It's not very much for a glass
> glider (<20 lb) and I wouldn't think more than 40 lb. or so for a
> drag master (2-33).* There's no harm in releasing at that tension.*
> Why fly a bunch of maneuvers just to get a little slack before
> releasing?
>
>
>
>
> On 7/3/2015 8:32 AM,
> wrote:
>
>
>
> So true. After flying with Jason at Estrella I had check rides at two different soaring locations before renting and I used Jason's soft release technique. HEAVILY CRITICIZED by both CFIs for the soft release.
> I have used it a couple of times during my private tows and have seen the towplane fly straight ahead for a couple miles before realizing that I was no longer on tow.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan Marotta

[bumper[_4_]]

Having an ASH26E, I'm rarely at the distal end of a tow rope. But as a part time, when needed tuggie at Minden, I've been victim of soft releases. We even once had an instructor who seemed to take delight in getting off with a loose rope to see how long I'd keep climbing away. He'd do the same in wave day rotor, when even a normal tension release can easily go unnoticed for awhile.

I like it when a glider says something like, "Glider AA off at 5800, thanks!" That both tells you he's off, and also confirms altitude so there's no surprises paying the tab.

bumper

[Bruce Hoult]

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 6:01:02 PM UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
> There was an article in Soaring back in the 80s, I believe, which
> discussed rope tension during tow.* It's not very much for a glass
> glider (<20 lb) and I wouldn't think more than 40 lb. or so for a
> drag master (2-33).* There's no harm in releasing at that tension.*

On a cross-country tow, yes. Not when climbing at 700 fpm at 70 knots! Then you've got to add 1/10th of the glider weight from the climb to the 1/40th of the glider weight from the drag.

i.e. more like 100 lb tension than 20 lb (for a modern single seater with a bit of water)