Sparrowhawk handling

[Hartley Falbaum[_2_]]

Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.

Thanks in Advance

Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

[son_of_flubber]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 10:12:10 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? ... One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow.

As a low time glider pilot (250 hours) I need to fly 2-3 times a week in Spring to regain my skill level from the previous season, and then I need to fly weekly to maintain those skills.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 10:12:10 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

As light as it is, I would expect low polar moments and very quick response..
I seems to me that he should build some more experience ti increase his safety margins.
I suspect I am confirming waht you already think.
UH

[Tony[_5_]]

quick?

think about a turn and you are in it. then you think "did i even move the stick?"

[WAVEGURU]

What if you think about a beer?

Boggs

[Hartley Falbaum[_2_]]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 10:12:10 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

Thanks All;
Big help--needed backup.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:37:30 PM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
> What if you think about a beer?
>
> Boggs

It would be heading towards the bar!

Steve

[JS]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:09:08 PM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 4:37:30 PM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
> > What if you think about a beer?
> >
> > Boggs
>
> It would be heading towards the bar!
>
> Steve

The Sparrowhawk is easy to fly.
I seem to remember the stick requiring more movement in one axis than the other, as in you'd expect to move one more and the other less, but it still had good feel.
The tiny rudder is very effective, like no other glider I've flown. Prepare to be pleasantly surprised in the first few seconds.
Jim

[Dan Marotta]

What UH says has merit.

I have a Pipistrel Sinus in addition to my LAK-17a and I'm currently
flying an ASH-30 mi with its owner at Minden. Neither the LAK nor the
ASH give me the slightest problems in takeoff, flight, or landing while
the Pipistrel gives me fits. It's wonderfully easy to fly but so light
on the controls that, in the gusty environment of Moriarty, landings are
quite a challenge for me.

On 8/7/2015 11:24 AM, wrote:
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 10:12:10 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
>> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>>
>> Thanks in Advance
>>
>> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA
> As light as it is, I would expect low polar moments and very quick response.
> I seems to me that he should build some more experience ti increase his safety margins.
> I suspect I am confirming waht you already think.
> UH

--
Dan Marotta

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Surprised no one mentioned this, and as a CFIG you should know this, no aircraft is suitable for an infrequent flyer. The only way to stay safe for you and our fellow pilots is to fly. Flying is something you should do much or not do at all. The stats have proved this over 100 years of aviation.

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:12:10 AM UTC-7, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

[[email protected]]

Good point about flying more frequently. I wonder how many hours the average glider pilot logs in a year?

[Bruce Hoult]

On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 8:50:16 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> Good point about flying more frequently. I wonder how many hours the average glider pilot logs in a year?

I've averaged about 15, over 30 years.

Some years, nothing at all. One year 90. Most years 10 - 15.

I've flown quite a bit the last three years, since I became an instructor, doing a day of trial flights every two or three weeks. But it's likely to be near zero the next three years, as I've taken a job in Moscow and there seems to be not a lot around here. I'm planning to visit friends in Szeged (Hungary) from time to time for a fix, and maybe others in Germany/Czech/Poland too. But it's not going to be a lot of hours...

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I remember one year I had a goal of getting 400 hours in my ASW-24. I went on two soaring vacations, flew every Saturday and even during the week if the weather was forecast to be great, At the end of the year I added up my hours 275 hours was all. Sure put in many miles that year and learned a lot.

[[email protected]]

I've got 3000+ hrs in my Ventus B and 6k total. Did 350/year for about 15 years out west working 4-10s flying Fri, sat and sun :)

CH

[Mark628CA]

Tony-

After watching your progression from a teenager with your Cherokee (on RAS mostly) through the studly flights you are getting now, I can conclude that you are not (and never were) the fearful, ham-handed newbie Hartley is referring to.

Remember that some folks are born to fly, some can learn to fly, some can deal with flying, some are accidents searching for an address.

There is always Fantasy Football and Gardening.

[[email protected]]

In my experience as an instructor, most pilots who have trouble with aero tow do not have an adequate command of rudder usage. This is not limited to student pilots.

[Gliding Guru]

At 14:12 07 August 2015, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
>Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who
flies
>=
>infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus
>B=
>? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in
position
>=
>on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or
>convers=
>ely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW
27,
>=
>DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
>Thanks in Advance
>
>Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA
>

It sounds like he rather needs to go back to dual. If he can't keep a K21
there he is in real danger to himself and worse to the tow pilot.

Early last year two tow planes went down in the initial stages of the
launch in South Africa and New Zealand!

[[email protected]]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 9:12:10 AM UTC-5, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

Hello:
I can answer that question as I just had my first 3 flights in my Sparrowhawk. I too am a low time glider pilot with 40 hours, 105 flights. However, I do have considerable total time in very large airplanes. Most of my glider time is in the Grob 103 Twin II, but I have flown a Blanik L13,&23.

So on to the answer, I would say that they should not fly the Sparrowhawk until they can handle a more docile glider. It's a very responsive airplane, the roll rate is very fast, but the pitch is faster and will surprise you on take-off and tow. I think my lack of experience in single seat gliders is key here, and the combo of a C.G. hook and very light weight are big factors. At 60kts we climb out at 1000fpm, and the nose is pitched up a bit too high and the dash blocks the view of the towplane, so 65kts works much better.

I love how the Sparrowhawk handles, you really fell the bumps, and it can stay in a small thermal, plus it will fly very slow. If the thermals are broken up a bit, then using a "dolphin" technique works well to get to the next thermal. Also, it is very easy to land, I think because with the spoilers up the control rates slow down a bit. It lands just like a the Grob, 60 kts on final, tail first, but hold the stick back during roll out.

Its a fantastic airplane to fly and own, and I am very pleased I made the purchase, but its not a trainer glider. Feel free to contact me via phone if you wish, just let me know and we can set it up.
Mike T

[[email protected]]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 9:12:10 AM UTC-5, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

One thing I forgot to mention, after the first flight I switched to very thin sole shoes, maybe suggest they do as well, or even try barefoot. The rudder bars are connected via rope to the rudder and provide very little feed back.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 9:12:10 AM UTC-5, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
> Is the Sparrowhawk handling suitable for a low time glider pilot who flies infrequently? How is pitch and roll sensitivity compared to say, a Discus B? One of our club members seems to have a big problem staying in position on tow. He does just OK in a K21. I need to know how to help him or conversely, suggest he do something else. I have 1-26 , 1-34, LS4, ASW20, ASW 27, DG808, and Discus CS experience.
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Hartley Falbaum CFIG, USA

I have a fair amount of time in a Sparrow Hawk and believe that if you can handle a 126 you can fly a Sparrow hawk. The stick forces are light and it is a pleasure to fly and easy to land and will fly when other can't.

[Gerry Simpson]

Early in my soaring history I acquired 6 hours in a SparrowHawk. It is still the most fun of any glider that I have flown! I now have in excess of 800 hours glider time. The SH is by far the most responsive glider that I have flown- it has almost zero inertia, meaning that when you give a control input, the glider almost instantly goes to the new orientation and does not go past your desired orientation- it is like you are wearing it or it is part of you. The rudder is extremely responsive. On my first flight I was all over the place immediately after lift off and a little bit scary. I learned to lock my knees on the second takeoff and everything was fine. I stayed up out over the desert on my first flight for 45 minutes when no one else could fly. It can thermal on cigarette smoke! Cross country it penetrates much like a PW-5, however, it feels like a Ferrari while the PW-5 feels like a pickup truck and a Grob 103 feels like a big Cadillac. Two weak areas are the canopy and the landing gear- it is my understanding quite a few repairs have been needed in those two areas. A big surprise can happen on landing.. Since there is no suspension for the landing gear it can be quite noisy on touchdown when the fuselage attachment flexes- think of a .410 shotgun going off in the cockpit. I still have great fondness for the SH and someday if I feel that I no longer need long XC flights, I may try to find one to buy. I feel it is safe for a low time pilot, provided he has had some single seat experience and is aware of how responsive it will be on liftoff- it has more rudder than anything that I have flown!

[Bruce Hoult]

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 10:39:14 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> At 60kts we climb out at 1000fpm, and the nose is pitched
> up a bit too high and the dash blocks the view of the
> towplane, so 65kts works much better.

I used to feel that way in the PW5 until I realized that I was trying to keep the towplane on (or near to) the horizon. The climb rate and angle is so great in a light glider behind a powerful Pawnee that the towplane should be nowhere near the horizon! You are probably WAY above the path that the towplane took. Drop down until you feel the slipstream, then come up a little. Now the glider's nose won't be in the way.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:44:17 AM UTC-5, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 10:39:14 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> > At 60kts we climb out at 1000fpm, and the nose is pitched
> > up a bit too high and the dash blocks the view of the
> > towplane, so 65kts works much better.
>
> I used to feel that way in the PW5 until I realized that I was trying to keep the towplane on (or near to) the horizon. The climb rate and angle is so great in a light glider behind a powerful Pawnee that the towplane should be nowhere near the horizon! You are probably WAY above the path that the towplane took. Drop down until you feel the slipstream, then come up a little. Now the glider's nose won't be in the way.

Thanks for the tip Bruce, I did try it and thought is worked well. I am a little concerned about the tow rope metal link rubbing the nose section. I use a shorter weak link (about 8 inches) and I wonder if the rope is rubbing on my glider at that angle? I did notice some scuff marks on the nose when I was putting my glider away.

[[email protected]]

How does Sparrowhawk feels inside? I guess, it's quite shaky due to low weight and not so flexible wings?

[son_of_flubber]

Since this thread has drifted into Sparrowhawk related topics:

Any possibility of an electric sustainer for Sparrowhawk?

[Dale Watkins]

That would be a valuable option for me. Would consider self launch as well.

ZEN KA6CR Driver

[Casey Cox]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 6:47:32 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Since this thread has drifted into Sparrowhawk related topics:
>
> Any possibility of an electric sustainer for Sparrowhawk?

Spoke to Greg a yr ago or so and he was considering or at least thought he could build an electric motor himself for a FES model.

As for the underage and several having repairs; I thought that was from the long ground effect and those trying to land the glider before it settled. It floats and landing is ultralight.