What are your thoughts about the Parallel Glider Race

[Casey Cox]

https://www.wagdubai.ae/gliding.php

[Sean Fidler]

Sounds like great fun for the pilots and the crowd. How novel! ;-)

Good for them in trying to innovate and bring gliding into the view of the public.

Sean
7T

[son_of_flubber]

What do I know? When they first came out, I thought that the Ipad, Twitter, and Facebook would be total busts.

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 5:17:15 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Sounds like great fun for the pilots and the crowd. How novel! ;-)
>
> Good for them in trying to innovate and bring gliding into the view of the public.
>
> Sean
> 7T

It's the ultimate evolution of soaring - no messing with thermal, wave or ridge lift - just cut right to the chase - final glide races. Pilot with the most accurate glide computer wins.

Is the course short enough that the crowd can see anything?

I'm curious - I'll watch one at least. Sounds kind of like NASCAR.

9B

[Dan Marotta]

Oh goody! Kinda like soapbox derby. Everyone starts at the same height
and the first one across the line wins! How exciting!!! Gotta have the
best computer, as well! My opinion is that this will do nothing to grow
the sport as it's not much to do with soaring. Thrill seekers will want
to do a fast downhill run from release to landing and will move on to
the next thrill. Competitors will be happy to have their names in print
and their pictures on TV. Lots of folks watch horse races, but few buy
horses and learn to ride.

Yeah, yeah... I know - the crowd needs something to look at. Old
curmudgeon that I am, I'll stick to flying alone or with one other pilot
far away from anyone.

On 9/29/2015 10:15 PM, Andy Blackburn wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 5:17:15 PM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
>> Sounds like great fun for the pilots and the crowd. How novel! ;-)
>>
>> Good for them in trying to innovate and bring gliding into the view of the public.
>>
>> Sean
>> 7T
> It's the ultimate evolution of soaring - no messing with thermal, wave or ridge lift - just cut right to the chase - final glide races. Pilot with the most accurate glide computer wins.
>
> Is the course short enough that the crowd can see anything?
>
> I'm curious - I'll watch one at least. Sounds kind of like NASCAR.
>
> 9B

--
Dan, 5J

[Sean Fidler]

Trust me, you need a lot more advanced flight computer (and programming & management skills) to compete effectively in our "US special" and infamous 1 turn HAT task! A long MAT is incredibly complex as you have to decide how to run out the clock near the end and that 10% of the task completely erases the best pilots flying up to that point in many cases! And even more computer power and skill to manage our "run of the mill, 25 mile radiused 3 turn, TAT!"

Timed tasks are incredibly complex both strategically and tactically and force pilots to heavily rely on computers to make critical decisions (when to turn).

Racing (Sailplane Grand Prix) tasks are incredibly simple. First one to complete the RACE COURSE wins. No computer necessary. In fact, any GPS (even one from 2005, with only a few numerical readouts, available on ebay for $10) would fully suffice.

You guys jump on this new event and try to tear it apart because you need a "better glide computer?" Are you kidding me? You cannot see the forest for the trees gentlemen. I'm shaking my head, again.

Sean
7T

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Trust me, you need a lot more advanced flight computer (and programming & management skills) to compete effectively in our "US special" and infamous 1 turn HAT task! A long MAT is incredibly complex as you have to decide how to run out the clock near the end and that 10% of the task completely erases the best pilots flying up to that point in many cases! And even more computer power and skill to manage our "run of the mill, 25 mile radiused 3 turn, TAT!"
>
> Timed tasks are incredibly complex both strategically and tactically and force pilots to heavily rely on computers to make critical decisions (when to turn).
>
> Racing (Sailplane Grand Prix) tasks are incredibly simple. First one to complete the RACE COURSE wins. No computer necessary. In fact, any GPS (even one from 2005, with only a few numerical readouts, available on ebay for $10) would fully suffice.
>
> You guys jump on this new event and try to tear it apart because you need a "better glide computer?" Are you kidding me? You cannot see the forest for the trees gentlemen. I'm shaking my head, again.
>
> Sean
> 7T

WTF Sean? Did you even read what this "contest" is all about? Like Dan said - this is a "soapbox derby" GLIDING race, not a SOARING race! The web site even says there is no soarable conditions in Dubai in the timeframe of the games!

This is just a way to show off some pretty gliders in front of the crowds - too bad they don't include some required loops on the way - and a triple low pass "limbo" finish - that would at least add some energy management skills to the mix.

This will probably boil down to who can hold the most accurate computed final glide speed to exactly hit the finish line with NO extra energy! Wow, how exciting! Now, if they put the finish on a beach, and towed the gliders out over the water to their start point (at L/D max distance for the altitude) - that might really be exciting!

Kirk
66

[pstrzel]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 5:56:04 PM UTC-6, Casey Cox wrote:
> https://www.wagdubai.ae/gliding.php

Hmm, I think this is backwards. Make the finish line a gate at altitude and the one who gets there first wins.

[son_of_flubber]

Some cultural background will put this idea into perspective.

A big sport in Saudi Arabia is camel racing. In the old days, the Sauds used 9 year old jockeys, who do their tiny size, got great speed. When this practice was outlawed, the Sauds switched to RC robotic camels jockeys. The operator rides in an SUV alongside the race track and operates the robotic jockey.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 12:49:55 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
> Now, if they put the finish on a beach, and towed the gliders out over the
> water to their start point (at L/D max distance for the altitude) - that might > really be exciting!
>
> Kirk
> 66

Slight change to your idea, Kirk. Let them use MC=1 for figuring the altitude, and see who gets there first. That will be just as much a challenge of "who can hold speed the best" and will have less risk to the gliders getting all wet. Might even add some strategy of "Do I dive, use ground effect, then pull up over the finish line?" Sort of like that last pit stop in NASCAR. Two tires, or four?

Steve Leonard
VJS

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 7:56:04 PM UTC-4, Casey Cox wrote:
> https://www.wagdubai.ae/gliding.php

A similar tactic was tried a number of years ago by the hang gliding community... "speed gliding". One of the reasons given for it was that it would be more spectator friendly. I never really agreed with that sentiment - seems as though it gets just as 'tired' for casual spectators after the initial curiosity wears off. As a hang glider pilot, it has it's thrill, but 'let me see how quickly I can get back on the ground', just seems to defeat the purpose of the sport.

[Sean Fidler]

I'm not saying I like this format as much as SGP with regatta starts, pure assigned tasks and a real race finish. However, the earlier reference to this new events reliance on glide computers is quite silly. I think my statements are accurate. Timed tasks with choices (the vast majority of US contest tasking) are by far the heaviest on glide computer importance and skill managing it in complex scenarios.

Back to the Abu Dhabi thing. I think being the absolute most efficient pilot at starting and final glide is an extremely interesting skill. Match racing is a cool thing as well. Look at Red Bull air races for example (time trials really). Gets a little boring even though the flying is amazing. How cool would it be to see 2 gliders fly around a similar course on either side of the runway? The energy management, flying the glider in the smoothest manner, perfect lines, etc would make all the difference. Pilots would, in fact, probably not have time to look inside the cockpit. I think this could be very interesting and fun to watch considering that the crowds can see the whole thing play out. I for one think an event focused on lots of short races focused on extreme final glide skills would be pretty fun to compete in, every once in awhile. This is not a replacement of traditional soaring of course. It's a highlight of perhaps the most exciting (from a spectator perspective) part of Sailplane Grand Prix. A close finish. The big challenge of this would be setting a course where they are not redlining...but I'm sure they are aware of this concern.

Anything is better than a timed 1 turn MAT or a 25-mile radius TAT all summer. It would be a nice change. Imagine sailplane final glide racing on TV! Cool! Give it a chance. Sure, it's not perfect, but they are trying! It's not hurting you that they are trying something new...is it?

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:11:26 -0700, dbdev wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 7:56:04 PM UTC-4, Casey Cox wrote:
>> https://www.wagdubai.ae/gliding.php
>
> A similar tactic was tried a number of years ago by the hang gliding
> community... "speed gliding". One of the reasons given for it was that
> it would be more spectator friendly. I never really agreed with that
> sentiment - seems as though it gets just as 'tired' for casual
> spectators after the initial curiosity wears off. As a hang glider
> pilot, it has it's thrill, but 'let me see how quickly I can get back on
> the ground', just seems to defeat the purpose of the sport.

Seems to me that the nearest existing event format to this to this would
be the F3B speed task. F3B is an RC glider competition class and the
speed task being to fly a 4 lap distance (4x150m) in the shortest
possible time. BTW, that's flown off a winch, but with only one pilot on
the course at a time.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[gb]

Unfortunately it comes down to this or no gliders at the air games. Dunno which is worse. What the 'competition' looks like: https://youtu.be/Gx5NirtGfQ0?t=1m9s
A low pass race of some sort would be more entertaining.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:25:33 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> I'm not saying I like this format as much as SGP with regatta starts, pure assigned tasks and a real race finish. However, the earlier reference to this new events reliance on glide computers is quite silly. I think my statements are accurate. Timed tasks with choices (the vast majority of US contest tasking) are by far the heaviest on glide computer importance and skill managing it in complex scenarios.
>
> Back to the Abu Dhabi thing. I think being the absolute most efficient pilot at starting and final glide is an extremely interesting skill. Match racing is a cool thing as well. Look at Red Bull air races for example (time trials really). Gets a little boring even though the flying is amazing. How cool would it be to see 2 gliders fly around a similar course on either side of the runway? The energy management, flying the glider in the smoothest manner, perfect lines, etc would make all the difference. Pilots would, in fact, probably not have time to look inside the cockpit. I think this could be very interesting and fun to watch considering that the crowds can see the whole thing play out. I for one think an event focused on lots of short races focused on extreme final glide skills would be pretty fun to compete in, every once in awhile. This is not a replacement of traditional soaring of course. It's a highlight of perhaps the most exciting (from a spectator perspective) part of Sailplane Grand Prix. A close finish. The big challenge of this would be setting a course where they are not redlining...but I'm sure they are aware of this concern.
>
> Anything is better than a timed 1 turn MAT or a 25-mile radius TAT all summer. It would be a nice change. Imagine sailplane final glide racing on TV! Cool! Give it a chance. Sure, it's not perfect, but they are trying! It's not hurting you that they are trying something new...is it?

Compared to Red Bull air racing this will be a total snore fest.
UH

[Sean Fidler]

I think this concept would still be quite fun to watch for an experienced glider pilot. I would love to watch or compete! To spectators, I think it would be very exciting as they can understand the concept of a short race and the visuals are impressive. Nothing about gliders is more impressive to newbies than high speed low passes and a zoom to land. To spectators, this competition format will look, quite simply, like this below. Once they see that exciting part of the sport, they might, just maybe...., become a bit interested in the rest of it!?

http://youtu.be/DxbyDwe1_tk

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:42:07 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> I think this concept would still be quite fun to watch for an experienced glider pilot. I would love to watch or compete! To spectators, I think it would be very exciting as they can understand the concept of a short race and the visuals are impressive. Nothing about gliders is more impressive to newbies than high speed low passes and a zoom to land. To spectators, this competition format will look, quite simply, like this below. Once they see that exciting part of the sport, they might, just maybe...., become a bit interested in the rest of it!?

Fun to watch, sure - except in the US where all the safety nazis jump on you for "dangerous, unnecessary showing off"!

But how it is a competition? Who can make the fastest low pass? The lowest? The fewest PIOs? If they want to show off the state of the art in sailplanes, then sure, tow some up to 2000' above the crowd and let the pilot show off his glider with whatever maneuvers he wants and let the crowd decide when he lands - like ice dancing - that would add the element of spectator participation!

Then offer rides to pretty women - it's even more fun from the inside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Ok23JposE

Kirk
66

[Soarin Again[_2_]]

At 16:58 01 October 2015, kirk.stant wrote:
Why not add some excitement for the crowd and the pilots. Simultaneous
release at a specified altitude with the task being to break (using nose
spikes)
multi colored helium balloons tethered with light weight cotton thread.
Vary balloon altitudes and lateral spacing to require some aggressive
maneuvering then to the wow factor by requiring that a specific colored
balloon must be broken with the glider inverted. The glider with 100%
balloons broken (or more likely most balloons broken) and first thru the
finish gate the winner.

Precision accuracy with aggressive maneuvering and energy management to
boot, now that would be a crowd pleasing competition. Yes it's not xc but
even I would tune in to watch the event.

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Since the gliders are not following the same course (opposite side of runway) spectators will have no idea who is winning until they turn final. I think even glider pilots will be bored with this.

Now if you could get robotic jockeys to tow gliders aloft with camels, thats something to watch.

Matt H

[JS]

Camel tow?
Jim

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:24:13 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> Now if you could get robotic jockeys to tow gliders aloft with camels, thats something to watch.
>
> Matt H

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:52:24 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> Camel tow?
> Jim
>

Oh Jim.

At least I got a clear understanding of the various preferences of pilots WRT what constitutes glider racing.

Good to know.

9B

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2015 04:16:46 -0700, GB wrote:

> Unfortunately it comes down to this or no gliders at the air games.
> Dunno which is worse. What the 'competition' looks like:
> https://youtu.be/Gx5NirtGfQ0?t=1m9s A low pass race of some sort would
> be more entertaining.

Agreed. I get to see exactly this type of flight every calm winter day.
The only difference is that the gliders are being winched rather than
aero towed. Its OK if you're in the glider, but rivals paint drying as a
spectator sport unless somebody is being taught to deal with cable breaks.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Bruce Hoult]

On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 5:42:07 PM UTC+3, Sean Fidler wrote:
> I think this concept would still be quite fun to watch for an experienced glider pilot. I would love to watch or compete! To spectators, I think it would be very exciting as they can understand the concept of a short race and the visuals are impressive. Nothing about gliders is more impressive to newbies than high speed low passes and a zoom to land. To spectators, this competition format will look, quite simply, like this below. Once they see that exciting part of the sport, they might, just maybe...., become a bit interested in the rest of it!?
>
> http://youtu.be/DxbyDwe1_tk

Well, maybe, *if* they start the race with MC=5 or more of height. That would make the turns more interesting too (and precision more important). But will they?

[Muttley]

Could be made interesting with real time tracking (very short intervals) plus live video feed transmitting on the internet??

[Sean Fidler]

Pretty women are always nice to have at sporting events and always seem to find their way on camera ;-). I'm sure this event will not be different!

My whole point on this thread has been that this is "just" about the low pass and the zoom. That is simply a nice by product of a true (absolute terms, maximum energy management) glider "race" finish. Of course, this event seems to be primarily focused on simulating a short, final glide only, RACE!

It features:

1) a parallel race course on either side of a runway and in full view of the crowd
2) a regatta start - count down to the start line opening
3) a hard charging final glide "race" around several turn markers (2-3 minutes?) and, finally
4) a real finish line, directly in front of the crowd, where the sailplanes finish low and then zoom up and land.

This sounds pretty cool to me actually.

The first competitor across the line (right in front of the crowd) wins (imagine that!). They really have not much on the website to define the rules or structure so we are really making guesses.

Above is my guess and I think it will be fun and interesting to the crowd if they can keep the heats moving and have each race start within minutes of the finish.

Maybe I'll run one of these in Ionia next year too ;-)!

Sincerely,

Sean

[BobW]

On 10/2/2015 5:36 AM, Muttley wrote:
> Could be made interesting with real time tracking (very short intervals)
> plus live video feed transmitting on the internet??

Flashes me back to some time in the 1990s, this does, when a late night
channel surf stumbled me upon the very first manufactured for TV "sporting
event" of my experience ("American Gladiators?"). My reaction then was an
admixture of disbelief and "You gotta be kidding me!" scornful mental
derision, only heightened by the presence of former Super Bowl winning
quarterback/American Icon/mainstream ESPN aports analyst Joe Thiesmann as
"analyst." The show's very presence seemed something bored or desperate people
with too much money and time might generate, the participants likely gathered
from a beach somewhere induced by promises of a free meal or two, "TV fame"
and "a new experience." In short, it ranked right down there with "TV's Most
Forgettable" in my view.

The World Air Games seems a child of the same sort of adults, but this time
having none of the newness and excitement among spectators as existed (say)
prior to WW-I when somewhat similar stadium air events were common. That's not
to suggest participants or viewers or even paying sponsors haven't been/can't
be found, but such events' presence seems to me a reverse of the time-tested
TV/sports paradigm of participants/critical mass first, TV exposure to follow.
Writing as "a lifelong Aviation Nut," The World Air Games strikes me as a
display of marketing in the absence of pre-existing substance if you will...

When that TV (the only one I ever purchased) died a few years later, I didn't
replace it.

Bob W.

[Dan Marotta]

Good grief! I almost swallowed my coffee cup! :-D

On 10/1/2015 10:52 PM, JS wrote:
> Camel tow?
> Jim
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:24:13 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
>> Now if you could get robotic jockeys to tow gliders aloft with camels, thats something to watch.
>>
>> Matt H

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

How many tow planes will be needed? Two (maybe three) for each "lane"
so that the next heat will be climbing behind the scenes as the current
heat is running? Six competitors, twelve (eighteen) tow planes!
Logistics, people, logistics... How about a six drum winch launching
all competitors simultaneously? Now I'd pay money for that! Surviving
glider wins!

On 10/2/2015 7:51 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Pretty women are always nice to have at sporting events and always seem to find their way on camera ;-). I'm sure this event will not be different!
>
> My whole point on this thread has been that this is "just" about the low pass and the zoom. That is simply a nice by product of a true (absolute terms, maximum energy management) glider "race" finish. Of course, this event seems to be primarily focused on simulating a short, final glide only, RACE!
>
> It features:
>
> 1) a parallel race course on either side of a runway and in full view of the crowd
> 2) a regatta start - count down to the start line opening
> 3) a hard charging final glide "race" around several turn markers (2-3 minutes?) and, finally
> 4) a real finish line, directly in front of the crowd, where the sailplanes finish low and then zoom up and land.
>
> This sounds pretty cool to me actually.
>
> The first competitor across the line (right in front of the crowd) wins (imagine that!). They really have not much on the website to define the rules or structure so we are really making guesses.
>
> Above is my guess and I think it will be fun and interesting to the crowd if they can keep the heats moving and have each race start within minutes of the finish.
>
> Maybe I'll run one of these in Ionia next year too ;-)!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sean

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 9:51:13 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Pretty women are always nice to have at sporting events and always seem to find their way on camera ;-). I'm sure this event will not be different!
>
> My whole point on this thread has been that this is "just" about the low pass and the zoom. That is simply a nice by product of a true (absolute terms, maximum energy management) glider "race" finish. Of course, this event seems to be primarily focused on simulating a short, final glide only, RACE!
>
> It features:
>
> 1) a parallel race course on either side of a runway and in full view of the crowd
> 2) a regatta start - count down to the start line opening
> 3) a hard charging final glide "race" around several turn markers (2-3 minutes?) and, finally
> 4) a real finish line, directly in front of the crowd, where the sailplanes finish low and then zoom up and land.
>
> This sounds pretty cool to me actually.
>
> The first competitor across the line (right in front of the crowd) wins (imagine that!). They really have not much on the website to define the rules or structure so we are really making guesses.
>
> Above is my guess and I think it will be fun and interesting to the crowd if they can keep the heats moving and have each race start within minutes of the finish.
>
> Maybe I'll run one of these in Ionia next year too ;-)!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sean

Unless there is a specified finish speed and height the optimum finish is straight in with no pull up or pattern.
If done over unlandable area, it would be interesting. Otherwise not so much.
Seems to be more about measuring willingness to take risk.
UH

[Sean Fidler]

Maybe we can just shove the gliders off the side of mountains like these knuckleheads at the "Wingsuit Racing League!"

https://www.facebook.com/WorldWingsuitLeague

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHk_ZEHKybIPrCkFRqxie0nUOxX1yHPeK

[Mike the Strike]

It'll be about as exciting as a yacht race with no wind. Just imagine a bunch of Americas Cup boats being given a shove to see which goes furthest!

Mike

[Pete[_9_]]

If they can make the race short it will draw well. Perhaps have them release at 1,500 feet over the runway, race out and make one lap in like 3-5 minutes with a low pass dropping ballast on the spectators, the Saudi's are going to go nuts for that. I would too. Of course, we may see flutter and some wings getting ripped off, but following NASCAR's lead, that's what the people want anyway.
I see this working, most of the public thinks we just glide down from release anyway, no need to confuse them with the concept of soaring...

[Sean Fidler]

Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2

Sean
7T

[Richard[_9_]]

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 4:19:24 PM UTC-8, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>
> Sean
> 7T

Sort of like Olympic Lawn Darts.

Richard

[ND]

call me a sellout, but i'd sign up to get paid to be a professional glider sled-racer. in a heartbeat. i'd still do some REAL soaring in my spare time, make no mistake. why not? i bet it would be fun.

I have conceptualized (like others i bet) a version of glider racing similar to formula 1 or nascar, where they do a grandprix style race with 20 pilots or so each weekend at a different site and televise it with chase helicopters and stuff. having the points add up each season to make an overall points winner for some cup or whatever you want to call it at the end of the season. call me crazy but i would definitely fly in some goofy unnecessary uniform and live out of a motorhome racing gliders on TV each sunday, with sponsorship decals all over my glider. I really would.

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 6:19:24 PM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>
> Sean
> 7T

Well, OK, it's a glider race the same way the Red Bull airplane races are races, I guess.

Seems a shame to limit the finish to no lower than 30 meters AGL. What's the fun in that? Now if they made that the MAX altitude from the last turn to the finish, that would make it interesting!

May the best pitot-static system win!

Kirk
66

[Dan Marotta]

Chicks and money?

On 11/6/2015 8:59 AM, ND wrote:
> call me a sellout, but i'd sign up to get paid to be a professional glider sled-racer. in a heartbeat. i'd still do some REAL soaring in my spare time, make no mistake. why not? i bet it would be fun.
>
> I have conceptualized (like others i bet) a version of glider racing similar to formula 1 or nascar, where they do a grandprix style race with 20 pilots or so each weekend at a different site and televise it with chase helicopters and stuff. having the points add up each season to make an overall points winner for some cup or whatever you want to call it at the end of the season. call me crazy but i would definitely fly in some goofy unnecessary uniform and live out of a motorhome racing gliders on TV each sunday, with sponsorship decals all over my glider. I really would.

--
Dan, 5J

[Tony[_5_]]

Me too!

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 1:32:49 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 6:19:24 PM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
> >
> > Sean
> > 7T
>
> Well, OK, it's a glider race the same way the Red Bull airplane races are races, I guess.
>
> Seems a shame to limit the finish to no lower than 30 meters AGL. What's the fun in that? Now if they made that the MAX altitude from the last turn to the finish, that would make it interesting!
>
> May the best pitot-static system win!
>
> Kirk
> 66

Keep in mind.... you can never beat the lowest finish, best you can do it tie it.......

;-)

[[email protected]]

Le vendredi 6 novembre 2015 01:19:24 UTC+1, Sean Fidler a écrit*:
> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>
> Sean
> 7T
Per the rules:

"6.2 Start
Both gliders shall cross the start line in the same right hand and left hand positions in which they released. Since they had the same energy after the release, there will be no start altitude limit and the start speed shall only be limited to the Vne (see para 6.5) After crossing the start line both gliders shall fly directly towards the first turn-point of the task.
6.3 Turn-points
Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to the east. Non-compliance shall be penalized (disqualification for the race). Missing a turn-point shall also be penalized (disqualification for the race)."

If I understand the rules correctly, the gliders are not required to remain on their respective sides of the center line after the start. This means that rounding the turn points in opposite directions, as per the rules, could very well result in head-on collisions...

[Dan Marotta]

"Since they had the same energy after the release..."

Only if they released at precisely the same altitude and speed and had
the same mass.

"Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point
glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to the
east..."

But each glider will be flying in different air after the turn. Whomever
gets a rising bubble will win the race. Why not just flip a coin and
leave the gliders in the trailers? Oh yeah - this is for the spectacle,
not the competition.

And the above "rules" are only wishes to make the "competition" look
fair. Or is this supposed to be more like flat track or figure-eight
racing where the audience is there for the crashes?

....And winter has not even begun. 8-)

On 11/8/2015 2:58 AM, wrote:
> Le vendredi 6 novembre 2015 01:19:24 UTC+1, Sean Fidler a écrit :
>> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>>
>> Sean
>> 7T
> Per the rules:
>
> "6.2 Start
> Both gliders shall cross the start line in the same right hand and left hand positions in which they released. Since they had the same energy after the release, there will be no start altitude limit and the start speed shall only be limited to the Vne (see para 6.5) After crossing the start line both gliders shall fly directly towards the first turn-point of the task.
> 6.3 Turn-points
> Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to the east. Non-compliance shall be penalized (disqualification for the race). Missing a turn-point shall also be penalized (disqualification for the race)."
>
> If I understand the rules correctly, the gliders are not required to remain on their respective sides of the center line after the start. This means that rounding the turn points in opposite directions, as per the rules, could very well result in head-on collisions...

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 10:20:02 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> "Since they had the same energy after the release..."
>
>
>
> Only if they released at precisely the same
> altitude and speed and had the same mass.
>
>
>
> "Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point
> glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to
> the east..."
>
>
>
> But each glider will be flying in different air after the turn.*
> Whomever gets a rising bubble will win the race.* Why not just
> flip a coin and leave the gliders in the trailers?* Oh yeah - this
> is for the spectacle, not the competition.
>
>
>
> And the above "rules" are only wishes to make the "competition"
> look fair.* Or is this supposed to be more like flat track or
> figure-eight racing where the audience is there for the crashes?
>
>
>
> ...And winter has not even begun.*
> 8-)
>
>
>
>
> On 11/8/2015 2:58 AM,
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Le vendredi 6 novembre 2015 01:19:24 UTC+1, Sean Fidler a écrit*:
>
>
> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>
> Sean
> 7T
>
>
> Per the rules:
>
> "6.2 Start
> Both gliders shall cross the start line in the same right hand and left hand positions in which they released. Since they had the same energy after the release, there will be no start altitude limit and the start speed shall only be limited to the Vne (see para 6.5) After crossing the start line both gliders shall fly directly towards the first turn-point of the task.
> 6.3 Turn-points
> Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to the east. Non-compliance shall be penalized (disqualification for the race). Missing a turn-point shall also be penalized (disqualification for the race)."
>
> If I understand the rules correctly, the gliders are not required to remain on their respective sides of the center line after the start. This means that rounding the turn points in opposite directions, as per the rules, could very well result in head-on collisions...
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

Dan, what do you expect from a scheme that was thought up by some marketing idiots who likely have never been in a glider race. As long as they get clicks on their videos later on, none of it really matters.

[Dan Marotta]

I guess you're right, Herb.

Maybe there will be a new "reality" series on Discovery channel. You
know, where bearded, tattooed, "experts" will cuss and spit through most
of the episode while head-banger guitars wail in the background and the
incessant "beeping out" of the curse words will drive us all to drink.
Yep, that's probably it. We should probably come up with a suitable
title for the show. How about:

Gel-Coat Knights
Airport Bums
Carbon Clods
Rat Racers
Moriarty Glider Sharks
Overspeedin'

C'mon, Guys. Let's have a contest for the best name for the show. We
can all start from our couches or desks so it should be an even start.
Maybe the desk jockeys have an advantage due to their better posture but
the couch guys have a better understanding of the seating in a glider
cockpit.

On 11/9/2015 8:02 AM, wrote:
> On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 10:20:02 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> "Since they had the same energy after the release..."
>>
>>
>>
>> Only if they released at precisely the same
>> altitude and speed and had the same mass.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point
>> glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to
>> the east..."
>>
>>
>>
>> But each glider will be flying in different air after the turn.
>> Whomever gets a rising bubble will win the race. Why not just
>> flip a coin and leave the gliders in the trailers? Oh yeah - this
>> is for the spectacle, not the competition.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the above "rules" are only wishes to make the "competition"
>> look fair. Or is this supposed to be more like flat track or
>> figure-eight racing where the audience is there for the crashes?
>>
>>
>>
>> ...And winter has not even begun.
>> 8-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/8/2015 2:58 AM,
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le vendredi 6 novembre 2015 01:19:24 UTC+1, Sean Fidler a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>>
>> Sean
>> 7T
>>
>>
>> Per the rules:
>>
>> "6.2 Start
>> Both gliders shall cross the start line in the same right hand and left hand positions in which they released. Since they had the same energy after the release, there will be no start altitude limit and the start speed shall only be limited to the Vne (see para 6.5) After crossing the start line both gliders shall fly directly towards the first turn-point of the task.
>> 6.3 Turn-points
>> Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to the east. Non-compliance shall be penalized (disqualification for the race). Missing a turn-point shall also be penalized (disqualification for the race)."
>>
>> If I understand the rules correctly, the gliders are not required to remain on their respective sides of the center line after the start. This means that rounding the turn points in opposite directions, as per the rules, could very well result in head-on collisions...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dan, 5J
> Dan, what do you expect from a scheme that was thought up by some marketing idiots who likely have never been in a glider race. As long as they get clicks on their videos later on, none of it really matters.

--
Dan, 5J

[ND]

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 7:16:25 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> Me too!

wanna have a sled ride race with me tony?

[ND]

On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 11:20:02 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> "Since they had the same energy after the release..."
>
>
>
> Only if they released at precisely the same
> altitude and speed and had the same mass.
>
>
>
> "Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point
> glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to
> the east..."
>
>
>
> But each glider will be flying in different air after the turn.*
> Whomever gets a rising bubble will win the race.* Why not just
> flip a coin and leave the gliders in the trailers?* Oh yeah - this
> is for the spectacle, not the competition.
>
>
>
> And the above "rules" are only wishes to make the "competition"
> look fair.* Or is this supposed to be more like flat track or
> figure-eight racing where the audience is there for the crashes?
>
>
>
> ...And winter has not even begun.*
> 8-)
>
>
>
>
> On 11/8/2015 2:58 AM,
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Le vendredi 6 novembre 2015 01:19:24 UTC+1, Sean Fidler a écrit*:
>
>
> Rules just published here: https://t.co/ftsqzaruG2
>
> Sean
> 7T
>
>
> Per the rules:
>
> "6.2 Start
> Both gliders shall cross the start line in the same right hand and left hand positions in which they released. Since they had the same energy after the release, there will be no start altitude limit and the start speed shall only be limited to the Vne (see para 6.5) After crossing the start line both gliders shall fly directly towards the first turn-point of the task.
> 6.3 Turn-points
> Both gliders shall turn the same turn-points but at each turn-point glider WHISKY shall turn to the west and glider ECHO shall turn to the east. Non-compliance shall be penalized (disqualification for the race). Missing a turn-point shall also be penalized (disqualification for the race)."
>
> If I understand the rules correctly, the gliders are not required to remain on their respective sides of the center line after the start. This means that rounding the turn points in opposite directions, as per the rules, could very well result in head-on collisions...
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

lets not forget that someone will have a headwind/tailwind component that the other will not....

[ND]

glider people.

[Tony[_5_]]

Sure but let's fly 2-33s. More surface area for sponsors :)

[Tony[_5_]]

Herb,

My understanding is the Roland Stuck developed the parallel glider race for the world air games. He's been described to me as the Father of the Sailplane Grand Prix. I met him at the 13.5m WGC. He's no idiot.