Ka-8b

[Ryan Wubben]

After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring, although
I've
been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.

I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up for
sale.
Any thoughts on the Ka-8?

Things to watch out for?
Difficulty rigging?

Thanks,
Ryan in Madison

[Dave Nadler]

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:45:46 AM UTC-4, Ryan Wubben wrote:
> After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring, although I've
> been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.
>
> I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up for sale.
> Any thoughts on the Ka-8?
>
> Things to watch out for?
> Difficulty rigging?
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan in Madison

These are getting pretty old - get a *really* good inspection.
Especially glue joints!
One of these lost a chunk of wing in flight a few years back
due to deteriorated glue (landed safely but yikes).

Enjoy,
Best Regards, Dave

[Ryan Wubben]

At 15:58 02 October 2015, Dave Nadler wrote:
>On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:45:46 AM UTC-4, Ryan Wubben wrote:
>> After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring,
>although I've
>> been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.
>>
>> I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up
for
>sale.
>> Any thoughts on the Ka-8?
>>
>> Things to watch out for?
>> Difficulty rigging?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan in Madison
>
>These are getting pretty old - get a *really* good inspection.
>Especially glue joints!
>One of these lost a chunk of wing in flight a few years back
>due to deteriorated glue (landed safely but yikes).
>
>Enjoy,
>Best Regards, Dave
>
>

This particular one has had a full BGA type inspection by Chad Wille.

Ryan

[Ryan Wubben]

At 15:58 02 October 2015, Dave Nadler wrote:
>On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:45:46 AM UTC-4, Ryan Wubben wrote:
>> After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring,
>although I've
>> been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.
>>
>> I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up
for
>sale.
>> Any thoughts on the Ka-8?
>>
>> Things to watch out for?
>> Difficulty rigging?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan in Madison
>
>These are getting pretty old - get a *really* good inspection.
>Especially glue joints!
>One of these lost a chunk of wing in flight a few years back
>due to deteriorated glue (landed safely but yikes).
>
>Enjoy,
>Best Regards, Dave
>
>

This particular one has had a full BGA type inspection by Chad Wille.

Ryan

[Richard[_13_]]

Ryan Wubben > wrote in news:d4yPx.1889$wu1.1402
@fx03.fr7:

> At 15:58 02 October 2015, Dave Nadler wrote:
>>On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 11:45:46 AM UTC-4, Ryan Wubben wrote:
>>> After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring,
>>although I've
>>> been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.
>>>
>>> I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up
> for
>>sale.
>>> Any thoughts on the Ka-8?
>>>
>>> Things to watch out for?
>>> Difficulty rigging?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ryan in Madison
>>
>>These are getting pretty old - get a *really* good inspection.
>>Especially glue joints!
>>One of these lost a chunk of wing in flight a few years back
>>due to deteriorated glue (landed safely but yikes).
>>
>>Enjoy,
>>Best Regards, Dave
>>
>>
>
> This particular one has had a full BGA type inspection by Chad Wille.
>
> Ryan
>
>

Lovely old gliders - you can thermal them on a mosquito fart !

Richard

[Tom[_20_]]

Ryan Wubben wrote:

> [...] thinking of a Ka-8b that is coming up for sale.
> Any thoughts on the Ka-8?

A lovely glider, utterly viceless and soars on a breath. It
doesn't penetrate very well into wind, so cross-country
ambitions need to be modest (though Karl Striedieck did
a 767km out-and-return in one).

> Things to watch out for?

I can't think of anything other than the glue and the state
of its trailer.

> Difficulty rigging?

Not at all.

[Tony[_5_]]

Of its the one that John Hardy used to own that is now in Reno, I think you should get it. That's a really nice Ka8 with a good trailer. John pulled KT to a lot of Vintage rallies.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 10:45:46 AM UTC-5, Ryan Wubben wrote:
> After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring, although
> I've
> been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.
>
> I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up for
> sale.
> Any thoughts on the Ka-8?
>
> Things to watch out for?
> Difficulty rigging?
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan in Madison

Ryan, great to see you found your way back into soaring. Regarding the Ka-8, I made my 50 km private license flight in one in Germany back in 1981. It was an old glider then that I barely fit into and getting to the next thermal was a bit difficult. Don't get one, it will be frustrating seeing your buddies doing 180 mi while you land at a nearby field. Buy a used fiberglass ship like an ASW-20 or similar and find out about the freedom of movement they allow.
Herb in Chicago

[Eric Munk]

Lovely glider. I have owned a fair few of them in the past. X-country is
possible, but slow, of course. But they are a cheap and delightful way to
fly.

Glue issues have been mentioned. They tend to be more profound on kit-built
gliders, gliders that have seen little maintenance and lots of outdoors
use, and the pre 1964/65 examples for some reason. A full BGA-inspection
would be a very big plus.

Other things to watch for:
- Cracks in the lower rudder hinge flanges that bolt it to the vertical
spar
- Corrosion on/in the lower fuselage tube, especially around the tail skis
and at the Y-joint behind the wheel
- Disbonding of the joint attaching the root D-nose of the elevator to the
elevator D-nose skins (there's a three-yearly mandatory AD on this)
- Symmetry of the elevator drive in the fuselage (base of the vertical
stabilizer), there's a yearly AD on this
- Welds on the middle elevator attachment hinge (three-yearly AD)
- Play on the front and aft fuselage-to-wings pins
- Cracks in the welds of the rudder pedals (hinge tube to vertical tube)

Sounds like a long list, but it is not. Very durable glider. Enjoy!

[[email protected]]

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 5:13:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 10:45:46 AM UTC-5, Ryan Wubben wrote:
> > After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring, although
> > I've
> > been an active power pilot and have owned a variety of airplanes.
> >
> > I used to own a Ka-6, but am thinking of a a Ka-8b that is coming up for
> > sale.
> > Any thoughts on the Ka-8?
> >
> > Things to watch out for?
> > Difficulty rigging?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ryan in Madison
>
> Ryan, great to see you found your way back into soaring. Regarding the Ka-8, I made my 50 km private license flight in one in Germany back in 1981. It was an old glider then that I barely fit into and getting to the next thermal was a bit difficult. Don't get one, it will be frustrating seeing your buddies doing 180 mi while you land at a nearby field. Buy a used fiberglass ship like an ASW-20 or similar and find out about the freedom of movement they allow.
> Herb in Chicago

Ryan, if memory serves me right, you reported at one time of a trip you took with your wife to Iceland. You then posted pictures of a Ka-8 and other gliders that you found there at the only glider club they have. That turned out to be the glider I did my Silver C in back in Germany at the Luftsportverein Hameln, we sold it to Iceland. Do you really want to operate such an ancient glider? Modern soaring is about going x-country, traveling to soaring sites in the East and West (forget the stinkin' prairie). The Ka-8 will comply but do that somehow fast only if you head down-wind.

[[email protected]]

After 11000 hrs in aircraft the Ka8b I am a partner in is still the best control harmony I have ever had the experience of feeling. And yes I race fiberglass ships.

The K8 flies like my plastic toy planes did in my minds eye 40 years ago.

Lane
XF

[Tony[_5_]]

And for at least 1/3, maybe 1/4 the cost of an ASW-20...

[Bruce Friesen]

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 8:45:46 AM UTC-7, Ryan Wubben wrote:
> After a long (12 year) absence, looking to get back into soaring

So, do you want to "thermal on a mosquito fart"? If so, get yourself a "lovely glider" with the "best control harmony". You will have a beautiful object, that returns your TLC with inner goodness every time you fly.

Do you want to race? Then get something more "normal", to fit in with the tasking and gridding at contests.

p.s. what's so stinking about the prairie?

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightbook.html?sp=2015&st=olcp&rt=olc&pi=32573

[Alex[_6_]]

The KA8 has a lot of parallels to a KA6, so if you have experience with the KA6 then you already have a pretty good idea what the KA8 is like. Rigging a KA8 is a little bit more work as you have tapered wing pins. Other than that weight, dimensions control hookups and steps for rigging are all more or less the same. The trailer will make the difference.

A KA8 is nice to fly but a noticeable downgrade from the KA6 in terms of performance, control harmony and noise. While the KA6 already gave a peek into the glass era, the KA8 is firmly settled in the pre-glass era.

[Eric Munk]

At 21:27 04 October 2015, Tony wrote:
>And for at least 1/3, maybe 1/4 the cost of an ASW-20...
>
Against European prices this would mean I could be an ASW for 6000 euros,
as K8s go for 1500 euros. Please let me know where to find this ASW20 ;-)

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:00:07 AM UTC-5, Eric Munk wrote:
> At 21:27 04 October 2015, Tony wrote:
> >And for at least 1/3, maybe 1/4 the cost of an ASW-20...
> >
> Against European prices this would mean I could be an ASW for 6000 euros,
> as K8s go for 1500 euros. Please let me know where to find this ASW20 ;-)

US prices. Ka-8 in question has good fabric, enclosed trailer (steel frame, aluminum skin), asking was, I believe $7500?

Range I see for Ka-8s on segelflug.de is 1,090 to 2,500 Euro. With 3 at 2,000 Euro. All appear to have an open trailer or "covered" trailer. Which I believe means a trailer with a plastic or canvas tarp to put on over the glider once it is on the open trailer. One is 2,000 Euro, add 500 Euro if you want the trailer.

I could point you towards a 6000 Euro AS-W 20. But, it will probably "need a little TLC." :-)

Steve Leonard

[Eric Munk]

>I could point you towards a 6000 Euro AS-W 20. But, it will probably
>"need=
> a little TLC." :-)

Don't bother, please, Steve. I still have a backlog of gliders in need of
TLC over here. They seem to become more rather than less ;-)

Last four K8s I bought were even cheaper than the typical Segelflug.de ones
(all of which are reasonable, considering their numbers this side of the
Atlantic). Paid 1700 euros for the four of them, including three open
trailers. One of the gliders was a recently overhauled one with low hours
and no-damage history. Lovely ship. Owner lost storage and auctioned it off
in a hurry. Another was a flyer with some work. Other two were decent
wrecks and parted out. The expensive bit for them over here in Europe is a
closed roadlegal trailer. They can fetch quite some money, usually more
than the aircraft itself!

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

The arch enemy of any wooden ship is wood-rot. Wood rot is triggered when moisture finds its way to the wood. Be extra vigilant that no water entrees the ship when stored on its open trailer. A drip that hits the aileron will run into the drag spar, in time the spar will rot. I remember a tragic accident where undetected wood rot had developed in the drag spar of a BG-12. When the flaps were deployed at high speed, one flap hinge tore out which caused the drag spar to fail. This allowed the wing to twist and that caused wing separation.............I hate it when that happens!
JJ

[Eric Munk]

True. Last K7 I had in the 'shop looked great from a distance. From up
close and a couple of inspection holes later not so much. Ply of the
aileron aux spar had separated from its longerons over 2/3 of its length.
Water ingress from a hole in the transport cover used on the open trailer,
running off the aileron onto the back of the aux spar in the wing. Hard one
to spot, great to catch in time. Aircraft had a full wing inspection/repair
as necessary and partial recover done. Now flying again. Other obvious
spots to look for water ingress damage are the airbrake box, elevator spar
web.

At 17:56 05 October 2015, JJ Sinclair wrote:
>The arch enemy of any wooden ship is wood-rot. Wood rot is triggered when
>m=
>oisture finds its way to the wood. Be extra vigilant that no water
entrees
>=
>the ship when stored on its open trailer. A drip that hits the aileron
>will=
> run into the drag spar, in time the spar will rot. I remember a tragic
>acc=
>ident where undetected wood rot had developed in the drag spar of a
BG-12.
>=
>When the flaps were deployed at high speed, one flap hinge tore out which
>c=
>aused the drag spar to fail. This allowed the wing to twist and that
>caused=
> wing separation.............I hate it when that happens!
>JJ
>