View Full Version : Amazing Winching Weekend in Utah
The Utah Soaring Association (USA) held a winch training camp at Nephi this last weekend with our newly purchased and rebuilt winch. We invited Karl Striedieck and his brother Walter to come and train 4 of our cfig's over the course of 2.5 days. We ended up with 4 club cfig's who are now winch launch endorsed and who can help teach the rest of our club members how to safely fly a winch launch. We also got 3 club members fully trained on driving the winch and who can now also teach others to become drivers. Another 4 club members got a chance to drive the winch under supervision. We really only went half days if you take out all the time standing around chatting and still flew 78 launches!
The coolest part, other than getting to rocket up into the sky at crazy velocities, was that during the weekend we were able to introduce winch launching to 15 other club members who had never experienced it (or even seen it in person) before. They each got to experience a launch or two and we think we hooked many of them into wanting to get their own winch training and endorsement. Everyone I talked to left very impressed and willing to participate in winching in the future.
We proved winches can be a FAST way to launch a LOT of gliders or the same glider many times at a fraction of the cost! With a RZR side by side running the line back to the glider, we were able to get consistent 6 minute times from one launch to the next using one Twin Astir and 4,000' of rope! Yes, 10 launches an hour! On the last day we were also able to demonstrate that you can do the whole operation with only a winch driver and a wing runner (yours truly for most of the day) safely and effectively. I would run the wing and immediately jump in the golf cart as the glider was climbing and start down the side of the runway to retrieve the rope once it was dropped. With the slower golf cart, we were still getting 9-10 minute turn-arounds (6 launches an hour)! When we plan for contest tows we plan on 12-15 minute tows, so again, winches can be very efficient both in not needing extra personnel and time between launches. Of course a few more bodies are nice but not necessary.
Karl and Walter were amazing instructors and were very gracious with their time and sharing of their knowledge. Thank you guys for helping get us become more winch launch self-sufficient.
We also must thank and acknowledge Bill Daniels for all his help getting us started with winching earlier in the season. Without his advice and huge amount of help, we would have never taken the leap of faith to purchase an old warn out winch and almost completely overhaul or replace every component. Bill spent countless hours helping us to get to the point where we can really start going now as a club. Thanks Bill!
Here is a quick 15 second video of one of our launches:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206694768880766
In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
Bruno - B4
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:13:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> The Utah Soaring Association (USA) held a winch training camp at Nephi this last weekend with our newly purchased and rebuilt winch. We invited Karl Striedieck and his brother Walter to come and train 4 of our cfig's over the course of 2.5 days. We ended up with 4 club cfig's who are now winch launch endorsed and who can help teach the rest of our club members how to safely fly a winch launch. We also got 3 club members fully trained on driving the winch and who can now also teach others to become drivers. Another 4 club members got a chance to drive the winch under supervision. We really only went half days if you take out all the time standing around chatting and still flew 78 launches!
>
> The coolest part, other than getting to rocket up into the sky at crazy velocities, was that during the weekend we were able to introduce winch launching to 15 other club members who had never experienced it (or even seen it in person) before. They each got to experience a launch or two and we think we hooked many of them into wanting to get their own winch training and endorsement. Everyone I talked to left very impressed and willing to participate in winching in the future.
>
> We proved winches can be a FAST way to launch a LOT of gliders or the same glider many times at a fraction of the cost! With a RZR side by side running the line back to the glider, we were able to get consistent 6 minute times from one launch to the next using one Twin Astir and 4,000' of rope! Yes, 10 launches an hour! On the last day we were also able to demonstrate that you can do the whole operation with only a winch driver and a wing runner (yours truly for most of the day) safely and effectively. I would run the wing and immediately jump in the golf cart as the glider was climbing and start down the side of the runway to retrieve the rope once it was dropped. With the slower golf cart, we were still getting 9-10 minute turn-arounds (6 launches an hour)! When we plan for contest tows we plan on 12-15 minute tows, so again, winches can be very efficient both in not needing extra personnel and time between launches. Of course a few more bodies are nice but not necessary.
>
> Karl and Walter were amazing instructors and were very gracious with their time and sharing of their knowledge. Thank you guys for helping get us become more winch launch self-sufficient.
>
> We also must thank and acknowledge Bill Daniels for all his help getting us started with winching earlier in the season. Without his advice and huge amount of help, we would have never taken the leap of faith to purchase an old warn out winch and almost completely overhaul or replace every component. Bill spent countless hours helping us to get to the point where we can really start going now as a club. Thanks Bill!
>
> Here is a quick 15 second video of one of our launches:
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206694768880766
>
> In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
>
> Bruno - B4
Our newly formed club the Steamboat Springs Soaring Assoc.is in its second season of winch only operations and we love it.There have been days when a tow plane would of been nice but so far winching has made us better low level pilots.Both our low altitude thermaling skills and landing skills have improved a lot.It will be nice for your club to be able to offer both options for launch.Good luck in your new winching adventure,check out our winch at www.soarsteamboat.org Tom Wood
JS
October 6th 15, 05:41 AM
Cool!
Nice that the project was finished and so many people checked out.
With a few winch drivers trained, make sure you rotate drivers so it doesn't get boring at the other end of the runway from their friends.
Jim
Dan Marotta
October 6th 15, 04:54 PM
Do you accept visiting pilots (SSA members) and their own ships?
This question is for both Nephi and Steamboat.
Dan
On 10/5/2015 9:30 PM, wrote:
> On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:13:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>> The Utah Soaring Association (USA) held a winch training camp at Nephi this last weekend with our newly purchased and rebuilt winch. We invited Karl Striedieck and his brother Walter to come and train 4 of our cfig's over the course of 2.5 days. We ended up with 4 club cfig's who are now winch launch endorsed and who can help teach the rest of our club members how to safely fly a winch launch. We also got 3 club members fully trained on driving the winch and who can now also teach others to become drivers. Another 4 club members got a chance to drive the winch under supervision. We really only went half days if you take out all the time standing around chatting and still flew 78 launches!
>>
>> The coolest part, other than getting to rocket up into the sky at crazy velocities, was that during the weekend we were able to introduce winch launching to 15 other club members who had never experienced it (or even seen it in person) before. They each got to experience a launch or two and we think we hooked many of them into wanting to get their own winch training and endorsement. Everyone I talked to left very impressed and willing to participate in winching in the future.
>>
>> We proved winches can be a FAST way to launch a LOT of gliders or the same glider many times at a fraction of the cost! With a RZR side by side running the line back to the glider, we were able to get consistent 6 minute times from one launch to the next using one Twin Astir and 4,000' of rope! Yes, 10 launches an hour! On the last day we were also able to demonstrate that you can do the whole operation with only a winch driver and a wing runner (yours truly for most of the day) safely and effectively. I would run the wing and immediately jump in the golf cart as the glider was climbing and start down the side of the runway to retrieve the rope once it was dropped. With the slower golf cart, we were still getting 9-10 minute turn-arounds (6 launches an hour)! When we plan for contest tows we plan on 12-15 minute tows, so again, winches can be very efficient both in not needing extra personnel and time between launches. Of course a few more bodies are nice but not necessary.
>>
>> Karl and Walter were amazing instructors and were very gracious with their time and sharing of their knowledge. Thank you guys for helping get us become more winch launch self-sufficient.
>>
>> We also must thank and acknowledge Bill Daniels for all his help getting us started with winching earlier in the season. Without his advice and huge amount of help, we would have never taken the leap of faith to purchase an old warn out winch and almost completely overhaul or replace every component. Bill spent countless hours helping us to get to the point where we can really start going now as a club. Thanks Bill!
>>
>> Here is a quick 15 second video of one of our launches:
>> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206694768880766
>>
>> In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
>>
>> Bruno - B4
> Our newly formed club the Steamboat Springs Soaring Assoc.is in its second season of winch only operations and we love it.There have been days when a tow plane would of been nice but so far winching has made us better low level pilots.Both our low altitude thermaling skills and landing skills have improved a lot.It will be nice for your club to be able to offer both options for launch.Good luck in your new winching adventure,check out our winch at www.soarsteamboat.org Tom Wood
--
Dan, 5J
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 10:13:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> The Utah Soaring Association (USA) held a winch training camp at Nephi this last weekend with our newly purchased and rebuilt winch. We invited Karl Striedieck and his brother Walter to come and train 4 of our cfig's over the course of 2.5 days. We ended up with 4 club cfig's who are now winch launch endorsed and who can help teach the rest of our club members how to safely fly a winch launch. We also got 3 club members fully trained on driving the winch and who can now also teach others to become drivers. Another 4 club members got a chance to drive the winch under supervision. We really only went half days if you take out all the time standing around chatting and still flew 78 launches!
>
> The coolest part, other than getting to rocket up into the sky at crazy velocities, was that during the weekend we were able to introduce winch launching to 15 other club members who had never experienced it (or even seen it in person) before. They each got to experience a launch or two and we think we hooked many of them into wanting to get their own winch training and endorsement. Everyone I talked to left very impressed and willing to participate in winching in the future.
>
> We proved winches can be a FAST way to launch a LOT of gliders or the same glider many times at a fraction of the cost! With a RZR side by side running the line back to the glider, we were able to get consistent 6 minute times from one launch to the next using one Twin Astir and 4,000' of rope! Yes, 10 launches an hour! On the last day we were also able to demonstrate that you can do the whole operation with only a winch driver and a wing runner (yours truly for most of the day) safely and effectively. I would run the wing and immediately jump in the golf cart as the glider was climbing and start down the side of the runway to retrieve the rope once it was dropped. With the slower golf cart, we were still getting 9-10 minute turn-arounds (6 launches an hour)! When we plan for contest tows we plan on 12-15 minute tows, so again, winches can be very efficient both in not needing extra personnel and time between launches. Of course a few more bodies are nice but not necessary.
>
> Karl and Walter were amazing instructors and were very gracious with their time and sharing of their knowledge. Thank you guys for helping get us become more winch launch self-sufficient.
>
> We also must thank and acknowledge Bill Daniels for all his help getting us started with winching earlier in the season. Without his advice and huge amount of help, we would have never taken the leap of faith to purchase an old warn out winch and almost completely overhaul or replace every component. Bill spent countless hours helping us to get to the point where we can really start going now as a club. Thanks Bill!
>
> Here is a quick 15 second video of one of our launches:
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206694768880766
>
> In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
>
> Bruno - B4
Sorry Bruno but no, you didn't prove that winching is safe, fun and low cost - you confirmed it. Millions of winch launches before yours have been the proof. A little less hype, please.
bumper[_4_]
October 6th 15, 11:20 PM
On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 11:29:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 10:13:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > The Utah Soaring Association (USA) held a winch training camp at Nephi this last weekend with our newly purchased and rebuilt winch. We invited Karl Striedieck and his brother Walter to come and train 4 of our cfig's over the course of 2.5 days. We ended up with 4 club cfig's who are now winch launch endorsed and who can help teach the rest of our club members how to safely fly a winch launch. We also got 3 club members fully trained on driving the winch and who can now also teach others to become drivers. Another 4 club members got a chance to drive the winch under supervision. We really only went half days if you take out all the time standing around chatting and still flew 78 launches!
> >
> > The coolest part, other than getting to rocket up into the sky at crazy velocities, was that during the weekend we were able to introduce winch launching to 15 other club members who had never experienced it (or even seen it in person) before. They each got to experience a launch or two and we think we hooked many of them into wanting to get their own winch training and endorsement. Everyone I talked to left very impressed and willing to participate in winching in the future.
> >
> > We proved winches can be a FAST way to launch a LOT of gliders or the same glider many times at a fraction of the cost! With a RZR side by side running the line back to the glider, we were able to get consistent 6 minute times from one launch to the next using one Twin Astir and 4,000' of rope! Yes, 10 launches an hour! On the last day we were also able to demonstrate that you can do the whole operation with only a winch driver and a wing runner (yours truly for most of the day) safely and effectively. I would run the wing and immediately jump in the golf cart as the glider was climbing and start down the side of the runway to retrieve the rope once it was dropped. With the slower golf cart, we were still getting 9-10 minute turn-arounds (6 launches an hour)! When we plan for contest tows we plan on 12-15 minute tows, so again, winches can be very efficient both in not needing extra personnel and time between launches. Of course a few more bodies are nice but not necessary.
> >
> > Karl and Walter were amazing instructors and were very gracious with their time and sharing of their knowledge. Thank you guys for helping get us become more winch launch self-sufficient.
> >
> > We also must thank and acknowledge Bill Daniels for all his help getting us started with winching earlier in the season. Without his advice and huge amount of help, we would have never taken the leap of faith to purchase an old warn out winch and almost completely overhaul or replace every component. Bill spent countless hours helping us to get to the point where we can really start going now as a club. Thanks Bill!
> >
> > Here is a quick 15 second video of one of our launches:
> > https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206694768880766
> >
> > In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
> >
> > Bruno - B4
>
> Sorry Bruno but no, you didn't prove that winching is safe, fun and low cost - you confirmed it. Millions of winch launches before yours have been the proof. A little less hype, please.
Are you thinking our sport needs less hype?
Carry on Bruno!
John Cochrane[_3_]
October 7th 15, 12:08 AM
Bruno: how about winch launch day at 15 meter nationals rest day next year? ( I forgot , it's Utah. No rest days. 1000 k task every day. On the practice day then! )
John cochrane
On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 9:54:10 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Do you accept visiting pilots (SSA members) and their own ships?
>
>
>
> This question is for both Nephi and Steamboat.
>
>
>
> Dan
>
Hi Dan, we are meeting as a board of the club this winter to work on bylaws changes that will hopefully allow visiting pilots to enjoy getting trained / checked out on our winch and maybe even get access to our gliders. Not quite sure how that can be structured but we are planning on working on it.
Bruno - B4
On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 5:08:09 PM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
> Bruno: how about winch launch day at 15 meter nationals rest day next year? ( I forgot , it's Utah. No rest days. 1000 k task every day. On the practice day then! )
> John cochrane
Love the idea. :) I have thought maybe of being a sniffer for one day where we can launch first and show the rest of the field what a launch looks like. There are many pilots in the USA who have been flying for decades but who have still not seen a winch launch in person.
Another idea would be to hold a Regionals or OLC/XC Camp and it is limited to 30 gliders. We bring in a second winch and launch the entire fleet only by winching. Would be fun. :)
Bruno - B4
Jonathan St. Cloud
October 7th 15, 06:50 AM
Bruno what height AGL are you achieving on the winch launchs?
Surge
October 7th 15, 07:26 AM
On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 05:13:08 UTC+2, wrote:
> In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
It's good to see that more people are finding the value of winch launching.
Three years ago I did nearly all my training up to solo status using winch launches (around 60 flights) for under $250 USD ($3.70 USD per launch).
The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.
Graham Stanford
October 7th 15, 07:27 AM
At 05:50 07 October 2015, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>Bruno what height AGL are you achieving on the winch launchs?
>
Hi All,
Sounds like you are having some fun.
Obviously I am sure you are aware we do loads of winch launching
here in the UK.
I am equally sure you are aware, but there is some excellent advice
on safe winch launching on the BGA website as there have been a
few accidents over the years.
By the way love your videos Bruno.
Cheers
Graham
Graham Stanford
October 7th 15, 07:28 AM
At 05:50 07 October 2015, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>Bruno what height AGL are you achieving on the winch launchs?
>
Hi All,
Sounds like you are having some fun.
Obviously I am sure you are aware we do loads of winch launching
here in the UK.
I am equally sure you are aware, but there is some excellent advice
on safe winch launching on the BGA website as there have been a
few accidents over the years.
By the way love your videos Bruno.
Cheers
Graham
Dan Marotta
October 7th 15, 03:45 PM
Thanks Bruno, I'd bring my own glider with CG release and I've been
ground launching periodically since about 1987.
Dan
On 10/6/2015 10:36 PM, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 9:54:10 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Do you accept visiting pilots (SSA members) and their own ships?
>>
>>
>>
>> This question is for both Nephi and Steamboat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan
>>
> Hi Dan, we are meeting as a board of the club this winter to work on bylaws changes that will hopefully allow visiting pilots to enjoy getting trained / checked out on our winch and maybe even get access to our gliders. Not quite sure how that can be structured but we are planning on working on it.
>
> Bruno - B4
--
Dan, 5J
Dan Marotta
October 7th 15, 03:47 PM
I trained in Australia (Bond Springs) and, with about a mile of cable,
we typically got about 2,500' AGL.
On 10/6/2015 11:50 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Bruno what height AGL are you achieving on the winch launchs?
--
Dan, 5J
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:26:10 AM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
> The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.
Which gliders are those?
On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:26:10 AM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
>
> > The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.
>
> Which gliders are those?
Just went through my LS8-18 manual, no restrictions regarding winch tow with water except for min speed to be above 120 km/h or 65 knots, 74 mph. Winch launching with at least partial water is very common in Europe.
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 5:09:52 AM UTC+11, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:26:10 AM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
> >
> > > The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.
> >
> > Which gliders are those?
>
> Just went through my LS8-18 manual, no restrictions regarding winch tow with water except for min speed to be above 120 km/h or 65 knots, 74 mph. Winch launching with at least partial water is very common in Europe.
I have done a lot of winch launches over the years none with water as unless it is a big field my issue is can I still land ahead and stop with the extra weight if the cable breaks.
Its great for winter flying and training though. I have also come across aero tow pilots who have had little experience thermalling below 1500 feet agl where a winch trained pilot is happy at 800 feet agl.
On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:13:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> The Utah Soaring Association (USA) held a winch training camp at Nephi this last weekend with our newly purchased and rebuilt winch. We invited Karl Striedieck and his brother Walter to come and train 4 of our cfig's over the course of 2.5 days. We ended up with 4 club cfig's who are now winch launch endorsed and who can help teach the rest of our club members how to safely fly a winch launch. We also got 3 club members fully trained on driving the winch and who can now also teach others to become drivers. Another 4 club members got a chance to drive the winch under supervision. We really only went half days if you take out all the time standing around chatting and still flew 78 launches!
>
> The coolest part, other than getting to rocket up into the sky at crazy velocities, was that during the weekend we were able to introduce winch launching to 15 other club members who had never experienced it (or even seen it in person) before. They each got to experience a launch or two and we think we hooked many of them into wanting to get their own winch training and endorsement. Everyone I talked to left very impressed and willing to participate in winching in the future.
>
> We proved winches can be a FAST way to launch a LOT of gliders or the same glider many times at a fraction of the cost! With a RZR side by side running the line back to the glider, we were able to get consistent 6 minute times from one launch to the next using one Twin Astir and 4,000' of rope! Yes, 10 launches an hour! On the last day we were also able to demonstrate that you can do the whole operation with only a winch driver and a wing runner (yours truly for most of the day) safely and effectively. I would run the wing and immediately jump in the golf cart as the glider was climbing and start down the side of the runway to retrieve the rope once it was dropped. With the slower golf cart, we were still getting 9-10 minute turn-arounds (6 launches an hour)! When we plan for contest tows we plan on 12-15 minute tows, so again, winches can be very efficient both in not needing extra personnel and time between launches. Of course a few more bodies are nice but not necessary.
>
> Karl and Walter were amazing instructors and were very gracious with their time and sharing of their knowledge. Thank you guys for helping get us become more winch launch self-sufficient.
>
> We also must thank and acknowledge Bill Daniels for all his help getting us started with winching earlier in the season. Without his advice and huge amount of help, we would have never taken the leap of faith to purchase an old warn out winch and almost completely overhaul or replace every component. Bill spent countless hours helping us to get to the point where we can really start going now as a club. Thanks Bill!
>
> Here is a quick 15 second video of one of our launches:
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10206694768880766
>
> In a nutshell, we had a fun and safe weekend flying $3,500 worth of aero tows for only $100 in fuel and $100 in rope reserves while putting big smiles on lots of faces.
>
> Bruno - B4
Great to see that another club has embraced winching. Just flew today of our winch and had a great late fall day in Steamboat. We also have reduced our winch operation to just two people. The pilot and the winch operator.
A pair of saw horses act like the perfect wing runner. They never get distracted, always hold the wing level and never walk in front of the glider at the wrong time.
What kind of gains do you get from your winch? We typically get anywhere from 1300 to 1600' AGL, but our runway is only .8 miles or 4200' long.
Roberto
Surge
October 8th 15, 07:05 AM
On Wednesday, 7 October 2015 17:56:08 UTC+2, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:26:10 AM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
>
> > The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.
>
> Which gliders are those?
With the ASW-19B and ASW-20 winch tows with water ballast are only recommended with more than 10 knots headwind.
I could swear I also saw a no ballast limitation on the Nimbus 2 but now I can't find it so I must be wrong.
Bruce Hoult
October 8th 15, 12:13 PM
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 3:03:31 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 5:09:52 AM UTC+11, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 10:56:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 12:26:10 AM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
> > >
> > > > The only gripe I have with winch launching is that the gliders I have looked at so far are not supposed to be winch launched with water ballast on board which limits the usefulness of the winch on booming days.
> > >
> > > Which gliders are those?
> >
> > Just went through my LS8-18 manual, no restrictions regarding winch tow with water except for min speed to be above 120 km/h or 65 knots, 74 mph. Winch launching with at least partial water is very common in Europe.
>
> I have done a lot of winch launches over the years none with water as unless it is a big field my issue is can I still land ahead and stop with the extra weight if the cable breaks.
>
> Its great for winter flying and training though. I have also come across aero tow pilots who have had little experience thermalling below 1500 feet agl where a winch trained pilot is happy at 800 feet agl.
I must have Scottish blood. Sometimes I release from the towplane at 800 ft. Usually get away with it too. (the vario has to be pegged for a few seconds for me to do it)
We were using 4,000' of rope and we're getting 1,500' - 1,700' launches. Our field elevation is 5,022'. We weren't trying for the highest possible since we were doing launch training. Once we replace the drum this winter we will be able to use up to 8,500' of rope. Will be quite a fun ride up to high alts even a tow plane will be envious of. :)
Bruno - B4
BruceGreeff
October 9th 15, 08:52 AM
We use single strand. 2.7mm 1880KN breaking strain , B temper spring steel.
Lasts well over 1,000 launches - a simple square knot for repair, in the
event of a break.
We have 2,000m on our drum, of which we regularly use 1,700m and get
600-800m launch height. The winch is ancient - uses a Windsor 302 and a
3 speed box - locked in second for the launch.
Very reliable- it gives me a typical 1,200 foot launch with my Kestrel.
Record is 2,700 feet in a trainer with a strong headwind and an
experienced driver.
With a reasonably sorted crew you can easily do 5 launches an hour all
day long. With a single drum winch. A dual drum winch and that goes up
to about 8-10. Biggest limitation is conflicting traffic if you have a
glider landing and the cable retrieve wanting to use the same runway.
Lowest I have ever thermalled away from - ~500 feet. With my mother in
the front! Cable break with an inexperienced driver - loops of wire all
over one end of the runway - and cars all over the other end converging
on the cable mess. Alternate runway occupied by someone taking a
leisurely taxi- while I made an orbit to work out what I was going to do
- I observed that the Blanik's vario was indicating 4kt up. So I stayed
in the thermal and thought about it some more...
On 2015-10-08 14:51, wrote:
> We were using 4,000' of rope and we're getting 1,500' - 1,700' launches. Our field elevation is 5,022'. We weren't trying for the highest possible since we were doing launch training. Once we replace the drum this winter we will be able to use up to 8,500' of rope. Will be quite a fun ride up to high alts even a tow plane will be envious of. :)
>
> Bruno - B4
>
--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771
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Surge
October 9th 15, 02:23 PM
On Friday, 9 October 2015 09:52:22 UTC+2, BruceGreeff wrote:
> We have 2,000m on our drum, of which we regularly use 1,700m and get
> 600-800m launch height. The winch is ancient - uses a Windsor 302 and a
> 3 speed box - locked in second for the launch.
>
> Very reliable- it gives me a typical 1,200 foot launch with my Kestrel.
Bruce, I'm trying to make sense of what you said.
600-800 meters AGL is approximately 2000 to 2600 feet AGL so 1200 feet AGL in your Kestrel is a 40% reduction from a 2000 foot launch.
At Orient we only see a difference of about 200 or 300 feet regardless if the glider being launched is a light single or heavy twin so I'm curious as to why you get such a large difference in your Kestrel.
October 10th 15, 07:35 AM
On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 6:51:08 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> We were using 4,000' of rope and we're getting 1,500' - 1,700' launches. Our field elevation is 5,022'. We weren't trying for the highest possible since we were doing launch training. Once we replace the drum this winter we will be able to use up to 8,500' of rope. Will be quite a fun ride up to high alts even a tow plane will be envious of. :)
>
> Bruno - B4
Yes, Nephi has the runway for it, I mean you could land a 747 on that strip.. It would be great to have both parallel tow and winch operations running at the same time on the next camp. You'd be spitting pilots into the air faster than they can land. Once pilots see the price difference, they'll be lining up for ground launch checkouts.
Roberto
BruceGreeff
October 10th 15, 10:13 AM
Hi Paul
Sloppy writing on my part.
Maximums 600-800m - 2,000-2,600 foot.
Generally we are getting ~1500 foot launches in the trainers, in still
wind conditions. If there is a decent headwind that rapidly increases to
1700 - 2000 depending on wind - record height was 2700 feet.
With the Kestrel I need more speed before the steep climb, and the winch
is very old and underpowered. So acceleration is lower and I get
somewhat less than is possible with the Bergfalkes - typically 1200
feet. This appears to be partially due to the Kestrel's CG hook, which
seems to release earlier than I would expect.
We have a new winch, but still in the process of checking folk out to
drive it. Once operational I will no doubt get better, but it will make
little real difference - It really is no hardship thermalling away from
a 1200 foot launch in the Kestrel ;-)
Having experience of the Orient winch, I am sure you will not get that
much height difference - there is lots of power available. Consequently
the heavy glider is airborne in about the same distance as a lighter
one, and climbs comparably.
We should get much the same with our new winch.
The winch operation often triggers thermals because of the vehicles
retrieving cables etc. There are very few occasions when an aerotow
would make the difference between getting away, or not. Generally only
when the thermals are very broken lower down, but more organised higher up.
Bruce
On 2015-10-09 15:23, Surge wrote:
> On Friday, 9 October 2015 09:52:22 UTC+2, BruceGreeff wrote:
>> We have 2,000m on our drum, of which we regularly use 1,700m and get
>> 600-800m launch height. The winch is ancient - uses a Windsor 302 and a
>> 3 speed box - locked in second for the launch.
>>
>> Very reliable- it gives me a typical 1,200 foot launch with my Kestrel.
>
> Bruce, I'm trying to make sense of what you said.
> 600-800 meters AGL is approximately 2000 to 2600 feet AGL so 1200 feet AGL in your Kestrel is a 40% reduction from a 2000 foot launch.
> At Orient we only see a difference of about 200 or 300 feet regardless if the glider being launched is a light single or heavy twin so I'm curious as to why you get such a large difference in your Kestrel.
>
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Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771
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BruceGreeff
October 10th 15, 10:20 AM
Why bother with a special day. We have launched club/sports class in
parallel using a winch with the 18m and up using aero tow.
On 2015-10-07 01:08, John Cochrane wrote:
> Bruno: how about winch launch day at 15 meter nationals rest day next year? ( I forgot , it's Utah. No rest days. 1000 k task every day. On the practice day then! )
> John cochrane
>
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Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771
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October 10th 15, 07:33 PM
On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 11:35:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Yes, Nephi has the runway for it, I mean you could land a 747 on that strip.
So it's only 4800' long and 50' wide?? ;-)
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/video-final-south-african-airways-boeing-747sp-capt-210352/
5Z
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