Two-stroke oil

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E, ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.

Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing for oil?

[KEN]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 5:32:57 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E, ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.
>
> Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing for oil?

AeroShell Sport plus 2 , Aviation oil for light 2 cycle A/C engines. I have used this oil for over a year in a Solo 2625 01

[Bob Gibbons[_2_]]

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:32:53 -0700 (PDT), "Jonathan St. Cloud"
> wrote:

>Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E,
>ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.
>
>Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing


This is what I have used for the past 15 years in my Ventus cT,
4oz per gal.
PENNZOIL® 2-CYCLE AIR-COOLED ENGINE OIL
http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/pe2cyforairc.html

Fuel is standard 100LL avgas.

I also add 2 oz per gal of SeaFoam Motor Treatment (injector cleaner).
Check Amazon or any auto parts store. Not sure it does any good, but
I've also used this for so many years I don't see any reason to quit.

Bob for oil?

[Dan Marotta]

Granted the Rotax 912 in my Pipistrel is a four stroker but Rotax
recomments a good quality motorcycle oil. They specifically state that
standard aircraft oil should not be used. Have you checked your engine
manual or contacted the manufacturer?

On 10/15/2015 6:10 PM, Bob Gibbons wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:32:53 -0700 (PDT), "Jonathan St. Cloud"
> > wrote:
>
>> Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E,
>> ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.
>>
>> Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing
>
> This is what I have used for the past 15 years in my Ventus cT,
> 4oz per gal.
> PENNZOIL® 2-CYCLE AIR-COOLED ENGINE OIL
> http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/pe2cyforairc.html
>
> Fuel is standard 100LL avgas.
>
> I also add 2 oz per gal of SeaFoam Motor Treatment (injector cleaner).
> Check Amazon or any auto parts store. Not sure it does any good, but
> I've also used this for so many years I don't see any reason to quit.
>
> Bob for oil?
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Craig Reinholt]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 2:32:57 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E, ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.
>
> Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing for oil?

The referenced thread is specifically for gliders using the Wankel Austro AE 50 engine variations. It has no bearing on or reference to the Solo 2350 engine.
Please do not make any assumption that oils for these 2 engines are compatible, let alone interchangeable.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Dear craig with all due respect I believe your comment to be inaccurate. Even John Murray commented on the 26E news group that he had imported a case of oil for his new 29Es, since the factory recommend oil was not available in the US anymore.

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 7:38:16 PM UTC-7, Craig Reinholt wrote:

> The referenced thread is specifically for gliders using the Wankel Austro AE 50 engine variations. It has no bearing on or reference to the Solo 2350 engine.
> Please do not make any assumption that oils for these 2 engines are compatible, let alone interchangeable.

[bumper[_4_]]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 2:32:57 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E, ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.
>
> Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing for oil?

There's a broad selection of acceptable pre-mix and injector options for 2-stroke piston engines. Unfortunately, what the two strokes are doing for oil won't be of much help when choosing oil for the Wankel engine used in Schleicher self-launch gliders.

There's a Norton rotary powered motorcycle owners forum, mostly in Europe, that have also seen a decreasing supply of acceptable oil - but they still have a supply. In the USA we don't, as of now.

This is not to say that out of the huge selection of 2-stroke oils that are available here, there isn't one of more that would work just fine, it's just that the factory makes recommendations of acceptable oils (none of which now are now sold here, probably due to the low demand), so if an owner tries an untested oil and "Fries His Wankel" (sounds painful), it's a very expensive lesson and probably every bit as painful as it sounds.

Wankel oil has to have a high temperature range, ashless, and provide good corrosion protection after shut down. A pre-mix is called for on the AE50 engine even though that oil is not pre-mixed in the common sense, but directly injected into the rotor cooling air to lubricate the E-shaft and bearings. The spent cooling air and oil then goes into an air/oil separator and the recovered oil gets sucked into the intake manifold and joins the air/fuel charge to lubricate the rotor seals etc. The remainder of the spent cooling air/oil mist goes coaxially around the exhaust pipe and is burned there and against the muffler.

So the oil for our Wankel has to function as both an injector and pre-mix oil. Note that most 2-stroke oils are sold for one function or the other, so you can see that this "dual spec" requirement may eliminate most oils.

Royal Purple Co. suggests that there HP 2-C oil works well (in Mazda Wankel engines as used in racing, and for injector and pre-mix). This oil may well work for our application - but I haven't tested it and am not brave enough to try it. Do we have any volunteers?

[bumper[_4_]]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 9:00:23 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Dear craig with all due respect I believe your comment to be inaccurate. Even John Murray commented on the 26E news group that he had imported a case of oil for his new 29Es, since the factory recommend oil was not available in the US anymore.
>
> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 7:38:16 PM UTC-7, Craig Reinholt wrote:
>
> > The referenced thread is specifically for gliders using the Wankel Austro AE 50 engine variations. It has no bearing on or reference to the Solo 2350 engine.
> > Please do not make any assumption that oils for these 2 engines are compatible, let alone interchangeable.

Craig is absolutely correct. My take on John Murray's post on the ASH26E group was that he imported *approved* for the AE50, oil from Europe where it was and still is available.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 9:33:00 PM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
>
> Craig is absolutely correct. My take on John Murray's post on the ASH26E group was that he imported *approved* for the AE50, oil from Europe where it was and still is available.

My take on John"s post is he imported oil for his ASG-29Es which has a solo 2350, where the "approved" oil is still available. Why would he import oil for himself for a glider he does not have?

[[email protected]]

For the 2350, all oils which comply with the JASO FC oder FD specification are approved. The recommended oil ist Castol Act>Evo. I'm sure you could order it from http://www.streckenflug.at/shop/ to the US, also the recommended oil for the wankel engines.

[Dan Marotta]

I will volunteer to test the oil in your glider for you. =-O

Excellent description, by the way.

On 10/15/2015 10:27 PM, bumper wrote:
> On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 2:32:57 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>> Over on the ASH-26E newsgroup there is a thread that the recommended oil for the ASH-26E, ASH-31, and the solo 2350 is no longer available in the U.S.
>>
>> Anyone have suggestions, comments. What are the two stroke owners doing for oil?
> There's a broad selection of acceptable pre-mix and injector options for 2-stroke piston engines. Unfortunately, what the two strokes are doing for oil won't be of much help when choosing oil for the Wankel engine used in Schleicher self-launch gliders.
>
> There's a Norton rotary powered motorcycle owners forum, mostly in Europe, that have also seen a decreasing supply of acceptable oil - but they still have a supply. In the USA we don't, as of now.
>
> This is not to say that out of the huge selection of 2-stroke oils that are available here, there isn't one of more that would work just fine, it's just that the factory makes recommendations of acceptable oils (none of which now are now sold here, probably due to the low demand), so if an owner tries an untested oil and "Fries His Wankel" (sounds painful), it's a very expensive lesson and probably every bit as painful as it sounds.
>
> Wankel oil has to have a high temperature range, ashless, and provide good corrosion protection after shut down. A pre-mix is called for on the AE50 engine even though that oil is not pre-mixed in the common sense, but directly injected into the rotor cooling air to lubricate the E-shaft and bearings. The spent cooling air and oil then goes into an air/oil separator and the recovered oil gets sucked into the intake manifold and joins the air/fuel charge to lubricate the rotor seals etc. The remainder of the spent cooling air/oil mist goes coaxially around the exhaust pipe and is burned there and against the muffler.
>
> So the oil for our Wankel has to function as both an injector and pre-mix oil. Note that most 2-stroke oils are sold for one function or the other, so you can see that this "dual spec" requirement may eliminate most oils.
>
> Royal Purple Co. suggests that there HP 2-C oil works well (in Mazda Wankel engines as used in racing, and for injector and pre-mix). This oil may well work for our application - but I haven't tested it and am not brave enough to try it. Do we have any volunteers?
>
>
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J