New Panel Help

[[email protected]]

Hello All,
I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
Thanks for any help.
Bill

[Dave Springford]

Hello Bill,

Here are a couple of options that you can consider.

The LX Nav S7 and Nano or the LX Eos.

The Eos vario has built in GPS with IGC flight recorder and basic Navigation on a small screen as well as back up battery and built-in Bluetooth to connect to an Android phone running XC Soar, Iphone with Iglide, or Oudie.
http://www.foxonecorp.com/index.php/lx-navigation/eos-57-mm-vario

The S7 vario and Nano combination give you IGC flight recorder and connectivity to your navigation package of choice as suggested above.
http://www.foxonecorp.com/index.php/lx-nav/v7-vario

There is a sale on at this point for the S7/Nano packages
http://www.foxonecorp.com/index.php/home

Another option is to look for something like a used Cambridge 302 that will be much cheaper and give you many of the same features.

[Dan Marotta]

"Another option is to look for something like a used Cambridge 302 that
will be much cheaper and give you many of the same features."

Except for the Bluetooth connectivity. You would either have to build
or buy a serial to Bluetooth converter to use the CAI-302 to interface
to a PDA. I used such a setup for over 3 years and was very happy with it.

Dan - 5J

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 10:08:37 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> "Another option is to look for something like a used Cambridge 302
> that will be much cheaper and give you many of the same features."
>
>
>
> Except for the Bluetooth connectivity.* You would either have to
> build or buy a serial to Bluetooth converter to use the CAI-302 to
> interface to a PDA.* I used such a setup for over 3 years and was
> very happy with it.
>
>
>
> Dan - 5J

Can the 302 be hard wired to a PDA?

[Dan Marotta]

That depends on the PDA. Some may accept a direct connection but the
output of the 302 is RS-232 in the input to the PDA is generally USB.
You'll need a level converter. The Dell Streak 5 that I use requires
some interface converter. I use a K6BT serial to bluetooth converter
(it worked on my 302 and, with a different cable it now works with my
ClearNav vario). I know someone else who has a wired connection to his
Streak using a IOIO device. I understand you can buy them complete or
buy the parts and build your own. Lately I've seen very inexpensive
serial to Bluetooth devices. Here's an example
<http://www.amazon.com/KEDSUM%C2%AE-Arduino-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transceiver/dp/B0093XAV4U>.

On 10/21/2015 3:25 PM, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 10:08:37 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> "Another option is to look for something like a used Cambridge 302
>> that will be much cheaper and give you many of the same features."
>>
>>
>>
>> Except for the Bluetooth connectivity. You would either have to
>> build or buy a serial to Bluetooth converter to use the CAI-302 to
>> interface to a PDA. I used such a setup for over 3 years and was
>> very happy with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan - 5J
> Can the 302 be hard wired to a PDA?

--
Dan, 5J

[Mark628CA]

I posted this some time ago, but it may be helpful.

I recently converted to a Dell Streak 5 Android device and I used a
RS232/Bluetooth adapter from usconverters.com ($51 with shipping) to
connect to the CAI 302. I built a cable to connect the adapter, as
both the 302 and the adapter had the same plug gender. It was no big
deal, even for an electron challenged guy like me. It was only four
wires, and I was able to power the Bluetooth adapter (pin 9) from the
302 power output on either pin 6 or pin 8. So far it works great. I
needed to get some help from a couple of people (Mike C & Mike A) to
get everything up and running, but I am very happy with it so far. I
also have to say that I am very impressed with the screen brightness
of the Dell Streak 5 and the power of XC Soar. Total cost for the
package was under $300. I am seeing the Streak 5 on ebay for around
$200.

Battery life is adequate, even at full brightness but I learned that
the Streak should be set to "Airplane Mode" so that the cell
searching
doesn't draw power. I flew 4.5 hours the other day and the battery
still showed 46%. Just in case, I installed a 12v to 5v USB plug
(soldered two wires to a cigarette lighter charge adapter from
Duracell) in my panel. Pretty cool alternative to systems costing
hundreds or thousands more. I will be comparing screen brightness to
the upgraded Oudie soon. The Craggy Aero Ultimate and ClearNav are
much better, but pretty expensive.


I am also able to download flight logs from the 302 and upload to the
OLC with a WiFi connection. Definitely a big improvement over my old
Compaq 1530 and GlideNav II, but there still needs to be a utility
app
for the Android to replace the Cambridge Utility 257. You can still
use a laptop if necessary, but an Android app would be better.

[TND]

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 9:51:47 AM UTC+11, Mark628CA wrote:
> I posted this some time ago, but it may be helpful.
>
> I recently converted to a Dell Streak 5 Android device and I used a
> RS232/Bluetooth adapter from usconverters.com ($51 with shipping) to
> connect to the CAI 302. I built a cable to connect the adapter, as
> both the 302 and the adapter had the same plug gender. It was no big
> deal, even for an electron challenged guy like me. It was only four
> wires, and I was able to power the Bluetooth adapter (pin 9) from the
> 302 power output on either pin 6 or pin 8. So far it works great. I
> needed to get some help from a couple of people (Mike C & Mike A) to
> get everything up and running, but I am very happy with it so far. I
> also have to say that I am very impressed with the screen brightness
> of the Dell Streak 5 and the power of XC Soar. Total cost for the
> package was under $300. I am seeing the Streak 5 on ebay for around
> $200.
>
> Battery life is adequate, even at full brightness but I learned that
> the Streak should be set to "Airplane Mode" so that the cell
> searching
> doesn't draw power. I flew 4.5 hours the other day and the battery
> still showed 46%. Just in case, I installed a 12v to 5v USB plug
> (soldered two wires to a cigarette lighter charge adapter from
> Duracell) in my panel. Pretty cool alternative to systems costing
> hundreds or thousands more. I will be comparing screen brightness to
> the upgraded Oudie soon. The Craggy Aero Ultimate and ClearNav are
> much better, but pretty expensive.
>
>
> I am also able to download flight logs from the 302 and upload to the
> OLC with a WiFi connection. Definitely a big improvement over my old
> Compaq 1530 and GlideNav II, but there still needs to be a utility
> app
> for the Android to replace the Cambridge Utility 257. You can still
> use a laptop if necessary, but an Android app would be better.

I have an LXNAV V7 vario with LXNAV Bluetooth dongle talking to my Dell Streak running XCSoar. That leaves the Dell Streak charge port free, which I connect to a 6 inch square USB-output solar panel ($20 on EBay).

The Streak has great sunlight visibility. The V7 is an excellent vario. I really like this setup.

I dropped and broke my original Streak. When I bought another one second hand it came with the early, 1.6, Android version. I couldn't get the Bluetooth on that to work with the V7. After much internet research I managed to hack the Streak and upgrade to v2.1 Android. That was a pain in the arse though, so if you're shopping for a Streak I recommend making sure it's got at least 2.1 (some have 2.2) when you buy it.

--

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[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:57:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
> Thanks for any help.
> Bill

I have a dell streak which I am planning on using, but am enough of a noob to have no idea what else I need. To fly badge flights I assume I need some type of gps and some way of saving data? Is that what a "volkslogger" is?

[Dave Springford]

A volkslogger is an IGC approved recorder, but so is the Cambridge 302, so connecting your Streak to a 302 gives you the recorder needed for badge flights and the data that the Streak can use for navigation and wind, etc.

[George Haeh]

PowerFLARM provides GPS and logging
in addition to traffic.

One of our members runs Top Hat, an
XCSoar variant, on a monochrome Kindle
which is nicely visible.

PowerFLARM, V7 and whichever flight
computer you choose can be connected
with some good synergy.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:57:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
> Thanks for any help.
> Bill

So if I get a Cambridge 302 communicating with streak do I need the Cambridge 303, is it just a display?

[[email protected]]

Nano, easy, compact, a little Velcro is all you need.

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 4:57:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
> Thanks for any help.
> Bill

[Dan Marotta]

Yes, the 302 is an audio variometer, igc flight recorder, gps, and
soaring flight computer. The nano is only a recorder, but it fits in
your shirt pocket. I think there's a newer version of the nano which
has a display screen. I have no idea of its capabilities. Others should
be able to help with that or use google.

On 10/22/2015 5:08 PM, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:57:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Bill
> Is the 302 also an audible vario?
>
> John, what is a nano?
>
> Thanks for all the input, is a big help!

--
Dan, 5J

[Dave Springford]

>
> what is a nano?
>

It is an IGC approved GPS flight recorder that can provide GPS signal into a vario like the S7, or the SN10 computer.

http://www.foxonecorp.com/index.php/lx-nav/nano

http://www.foxonecorp.com/index.php/lx-nav/nano-iii

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 6:24:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:

> Another question- I know this was debated quite a while ago- but what are the pros and cons of the SN10b compared to the 302?

First - if you intend on keeping a mechanical vario, keep the Sage.

Comparing a 302 to an SN10 is a bit of an apples vs oranges situation; the 302 is a good TE audio vario with a built-in GPS and IGC logger, that can drive an external glide computer such as an Oudie or PNA/XCSoar combo. By itself, it doesn't give you navigation or glide information. I think it can do either electronic or TE probe for total energy calculations.

The SN10, on the other hand, is a combination TE audio vario (needs a good TE probe) and glide/nav/task computer, that is really optimized for racing and XC flying; it has a rudimentary moving map, keeps track of alternates, figures out excellent winds, and will give you great final glide guidance. However, it does not have a built-in GPS, so you have to provide that input. With a simple hockey puck GPS, it has a non-IGC logger (but approved for US racing and OLC). When coupled with a PowerFLARM brick, it can show FLARM data, and if hooked up with an external PNA (Oudie, for example), can send FLARM, vario, and wind data to the moving map software.

I admit I'm biased - all my friends who have 302s have trouble with them (c'mon, admit it!), while I've been using my SN10b for 14 years without a hiccup.

Kirk

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 6:08:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:57:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
> > Thanks for any help.
> > Bill
>
> Is the 302 also an audible vario?
>
> John, what is a nano?
>
> Thanks for all the input, is a big help!

Look at Wings and wheels, the Nano is a stand alone GPS data recorder, runs well on SEE You and is IGC approved and works well with OLC. I just get back from a flight stick it in my pocket, go to my computer down load the flight and transfer it to OLC. Then I can analyze my flight in See You.

[[email protected]]

If you're going to be flying in an area with a fair number of other gliders and those gliders mostly have FLARM, consider installing an IGC activated FLARM Core and linking it to an electronic vario/computer setup that connects to the FLARM and uses it as the GPS engine and logger. LX Navigation and LX Nav (and others) make instruments designed to work like this and the LX8080/V5/Flarmview 57 setup in my ASW-15 has worked extremely well. It did seem a bit over the top for the old girl though. Keep the Sage as the mechanical vario if you have the room in the panel for it, they're great.

[Dan Marotta]

The 302 sends gps data to the PDA/PNA (XCSoar) and navigation is handled
by XCSoar. The only problem I know of with the 302 is that if it's left
unpowered for some period (about 3 months) the internal battery goes
dead and the gps can not then get the proper date. It must be returned
for service since it has to be opened which breaks the seal on the
unit. Because of the possible problem with the gps, I would not buy a
302 but, instead, would get a CNvXC.

I can't discuss the SN10b as I've never used one.

On 10/23/2015 9:11 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
> On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 6:24:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
>> Another question- I know this was debated quite a while ago- but what are the pros and cons of the SN10b compared to the 302?
> First - if you intend on keeping a mechanical vario, keep the Sage.
>
> Comparing a 302 to an SN10 is a bit of an apples vs oranges situation; the 302 is a good TE audio vario with a built-in GPS and IGC logger, that can drive an external glide computer such as an Oudie or PNA/XCSoar combo. By itself, it doesn't give you navigation or glide information. I think it can do either electronic or TE probe for total energy calculations.
>
> The SN10, on the other hand, is a combination TE audio vario (needs a good TE probe) and glide/nav/task computer, that is really optimized for racing and XC flying; it has a rudimentary moving map, keeps track of alternates, figures out excellent winds, and will give you great final glide guidance. However, it does not have a built-in GPS, so you have to provide that input. With a simple hockey puck GPS, it has a non-IGC logger (but approved for US racing and OLC). When coupled with a PowerFLARM brick, it can show FLARM data, and if hooked up with an external PNA (Oudie, for example), can send FLARM, vario, and wind data to the moving map software.
>
> I admit I'm biased - all my friends who have 302s have trouble with them (c'mon, admit it!), while I've been using my SN10b for 14 years without a hiccup.
>
> Kirk

--
Dan, 5J

[Richard[_9_]]

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 2:57:54 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am returning to the sport after a 30 year hiatus. I have recently purchased an SHK1, which I am refinishing/restoring. My goal is to use this ship to earn FAI badges, not to fly competitively. Given this information, and a limited budget, I am looking for opinions regarding instruments, GPS, Navigation and logger choices as well as their placement on the panel. The ship came with three mechanical variometers, a sage and two winters, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator. What would a good panel look like and comprise?
> Thanks for any help.
> Bill

Bill,

If you want to call and talk about panel update experiences please do. I have replaced panels in many glider with many different types of flight computers. Including Nano-V7-Oudie, PowerFlarm LXNAV LX9000, PowerFlarm- V7/V8/V80-ultimate le. Also tip on panel material and finishing.


Instructions for cutting exact 57mm & 80mm holes on this page:

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate_le_5_7.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com