Glider PPG license necessary for USA utility certificated motorglider?

[[email protected]]

Hi all, My question is, My husband is in the process of getting a standard AWC for his imported, into the US, Dimona H36 TMG. He applied to have it certificated as a glider (powered), but our FAA inspectors want to put Utility on the AWC because that's what's on the type certificate.
Does this mean that the pilot would not strictly require a PPG w/ self launch endorsement, but instead could do with an ordinary power pilot license PPL? We were assuming none of our friends could legally fly it with their PPLs, but if its certified utility like some of their own airplanes, why not?

Thanks if anyone can point me to the right reg or had experience with this,

Kristin

[Tony[_5_]]

Standard Airworthiness Certificates are issued in several Categories:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/std_awcert/

Regardless of the category, if the aircraft is certificated as a Glider, then the pilot must have a Glider Rating on their Airmans Certificate

[Cookie]

http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part23-3-FAR.shtml

See if the reg's above clear it up...

"Normal" "Utility" "Aerobatic"....

The Dimona is clearly a motorglider...It is in the utility category...which means it is able (approved) for certain maneuvers...

A private or better pilot certificate with a glider rating, and a self launch endorsement would be required to fly that aircraft legally.


Cookie


Utility has nothing to do with whether the aircraft is an airplane, glider, motor glider etc...

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi all, My question is, My husband is in the process of getting a standard AWC for his imported, into the US, Dimona H36 TMG. He applied to have it certificated as a glider (powered), but our FAA inspectors want to put Utility on the AWC because that's what's on the type certificate.
> Does this mean that the pilot would not strictly require a PPG w/ self launch endorsement, but instead could do with an ordinary power pilot license PPL? We were assuming none of our friends could legally fly it with their PPLs, but if its certified utility like some of their own airplanes, why not?
>
> Thanks if anyone can point me to the right reg or had experience with this,
>
> Kristin

[IA DPE]

Actually Utility is probably what you want.

In the powered world anyway, a Utility aircraft generally can do more maneuvers than a Normal one. IE, if your weight and CG are in the Utility envelope, you can do intentional spins vs. if in Normal envelope you can't.

[Cookie]

Yes....Utility is another way of saying "semi-aerobatic"


Cookie





On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 3:38:57 PM UTC-5, IA DPE wrote:
> Actually Utility is probably what you want.
>
> In the powered world anyway, a Utility aircraft generally can do more maneuvers than a Normal one. IE, if your weight and CG are in the Utility envelope, you can do intentional spins vs. if in Normal envelope you can't.

[Bill T]

Dimona H36 or Diamond HK36?

In either case, if the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet calls it a Glider, then it will be certified as a glider, which determines what pilot certificate is required.
Normal or utility is just a range within the glider or airplane category.

Glider AWC, means glider pilot certificate required to fly as PIC, and with a self launch endorsement.

BillT

[[email protected]]

Thanks everyone! It's an H36, and the 1997 TC calls it a glider everywhere but the title, which just says Utility (eg, not Powered Glider, Utility category, as in some more recent TCs)However, a Standard AWC only has a box for category of aircraft, and says in the instructions that can be normal, utility, etc OR Special Class of aircraft, eg glider. Most other H36s here are Utility in the N number dbase, a couple are Glider and a couple Experimental. I would think one would defly want and we would probly insist on glider training to fly our aircraft, but still uncertain whether, technically speaking, a glider rating would be strictly required if it does not actually say glider anywhere on its airworthiness certificate...?





Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi all, My question is, My husband is in the process of getting a standard AWC for his imported, into the US, Dimona H36 TMG. He applied to have it certificated as a glider (powered), but our FAA inspectors want to put Utility on the AWC because that's what's on the type certificate.
> Does this mean that the pilot would not strictly require a PPG w/ self launch endorsement, but instead could do with an ordinary power pilot license PPL? We were assuming none of our friends could legally fly it with their PPLs, but if its certified utility like some of their own airplanes, why not?
>
> Thanks if anyone can point me to the right reg or had experience with this,
>
> Kristin



On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi all, My question is, My husband is in the process of getting a standard AWC for his imported, into the US, Dimona H36 TMG. He applied to have it certificated as a glider (powered), but our FAA inspectors want to put Utility on the AWC because that's what's on the type certificate.
> Does this mean that the pilot would not strictly require a PPG w/ self launch endorsement, but instead could do with an ordinary power pilot license PPL? We were assuming none of our friends could legally fly it with their PPLs, but if its certified utility like some of their own airplanes, why not?
>
> Thanks if anyone can point me to the right reg or had experience with this,
>
> Kristin

[[email protected]]

Sorry to belabor an abstruse point, the practical answer being PIC should have PPG-S/L (airmen to have rating appropriate to category and class), but it does seem like for the box on the aircraft airworthiness cert, utility and glider are mutually exclusive:

Aircraft Category. The term "category," as used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means a grouping of aircraft based on their intended use or operating limitations, for example, normal, utility, acrobatic, or primary. For purposes of this order, gliders and balloons will be referred to as categories rather than classifications.

I never have understood why Category and Class are defined different for airmen and aircraft....

Cheers Kristin





Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi all, My question is, My husband is in the process of getting a standard AWC for his imported, into the US, Dimona H36 TMG. He applied to have it certificated as a glider (powered), but our FAA inspectors want to put Utility on the AWC because that's what's on the type certificate.
> Does this mean that the pilot would not strictly require a PPG w/ self launch endorsement, but instead could do with an ordinary power pilot license PPL? We were assuming none of our friends could legally fly it with their PPLs, but if its certified utility like some of their own airplanes, why not?
>
> Thanks if anyone can point me to the right reg or had experience with this,
>
> Kristin

[[email protected]]

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 4:46:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Sorry to belabor an abstruse point, the practical answer being PIC should have PPG-S/L (airmen to have rating appropriate to category and class), but it does seem like for the box on the aircraft airworthiness cert, utility and glider are mutually exclusive:
>
> Aircraft Category. The term "category," as used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means a grouping of aircraft based on their intended use or operating limitations, for example, normal, utility, acrobatic, or primary. For purposes of this order, gliders and balloons will be referred to as categories rather than classifications.
>
> I never have understood why Category and Class are defined different for airmen and aircraft....
>
> Cheers Kristin
>
>
>
>
>
>
You are incorrect. It does not say airplane in that box for airplanes so why would it say glider for glider?
UH

[[email protected]]

This was the subject of a 2013 Special Airworthiness Info Bulletin concerning Stemme VT motorglider, applicants for a standard AWC were instructed to use Category Glider not Category Utility, even tho that model is TCd as a "Powered Glider, Utility category". I am just trying to puzzle out why on the aircraft AWC it can be either but not both, and rather that logically would have implications for the pilots rating
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/dc7bd4f27e5f107486257221005f069d/451faed7fe796d5e86257bf600685e86/$FILE/HQ-13-46.pdf

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 2:51:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Hi all, My question is, My husband is in the process of getting a standard AWC for his imported, into the US, Dimona H36 TMG. He applied to have it certificated as a glider (powered), but our FAA inspectors want to put Utility on the AWC because that's what's on the type certificate.
> Does this mean that the pilot would not strictly require a PPG w/ self launch endorsement, but instead could do with an ordinary power pilot license PPL? We were assuming none of our friends could legally fly it with their PPLs, but if its certified utility like some of their own airplanes, why not?
>
> Thanks if anyone can point me to the right reg or had experience with this,
>
> Kristin

[Mike the Strike]

Quit worrying - if you own the aircraft, no-one is ever going to ask to see your pilot certificate!

Mike